Gyno Flare Up from Super Cissus (need some quick opinions)

**-DedicateD-** · 05-16-2012, 09:18 PM

I haven't posted in awhile, but I want to inform the board of my situation and ask for some advice as well.

Let me give you a history of my supplement use:

2006 - AX Suprdrol cycle - OTC PCT - Nice gains with no sides and no gyno

2009 - IDS Bulk Tabs & Mass Tabs Stacked Cycle - Myogenix & Cyogenix PCT - Slight Gyno early in PCT - Went away by the end of PCT.

Current Supplements :

Rotate: Jack3d, 1MR, MusclePharm Assault for preworkout
Orange Triad (multi)
ON Glutamine
ON Flax Oil
Dymatize Joint Tech (Glucosomine - Chondroiten - MSM - Hyaluronic Acid)
USP Labs Super Cissus - 4 caps daily (for about 1 year) - recently tapered down to 2 caps daily.

Say about 4-5 weeks ago I noticed both my nipples were getting hard a little more often then I was used to. No pain - no swelling. As I havn't touched a prohoromone in years I thought nothing of it. About 2-3 weeks ago I noticed some slight tenderness in my right nipple & no change in the left. Again not touching a pro-horomone or any AAS gyno entered my head as a possibility but from what?

Fast forward to the last week and pain has persisted and the swelling has become a little worse. Visually I have been blessed with a well developed chest and you can not see any difference in the mirror. However I can feel the difference with my hand. I can feel a flat soft-ish mass in the outside half of my right nipple. There are no sharp edges and it moves around. All signs point to gyno! (barring any other wacky health issue)

The only thing I can think of causing this would be the Super Cissus. After searching the web I found some claims that it could act as a natural test booster and possibly have estrogenic properties.

I have Letro and Tamox on hand but would hate to hammer in a nail with a sledgehammer like Letro and risk hairloss and experience all the other sides with it if its not necessary. On the way to me via USPS is Clomid and A-Dex.

My question is, do I run a traditional PCT first to see how that works? Should I skip the PCT and move right to Bino's gyno reversal? Can I replace Bino's gyno reversal with A-dex vs Letro to soften the sides?

All opinions and questions are welcome and appreciated.

**M302_Imola** · 05-17-2012, 05:52 AM

That is kinda weird as Cissus is nothing more than an organic herb and I've ran it for years now w/ no problems. Wonder if USP Labs could have misprinted the label on the bottle and you're actually taking Prime or one of their other supps? None-the-less cissus shouldn't be giving you gyno...what's your bf% at right now? As far as alleviating the gyno I would not use letro right now as your lumps haven't been there long enough and are still in the somewhat soft stage. I would start by taking either 10-20mg nolva ed or 25mg clomid ed for about a week and see if there is some relief. You could run a small dose of Adex as well but we don't want to push estrogen levels to low. I think the nolva or clomid will inhibit the estrogen receptor in the nip and won't drop your overall estrogen levels to low.

**-DedicateD-** · 05-17-2012, 08:25 AM

I thought the same thing regarding the cissus. I have taken it for awhile with no issues. I guess its possible its a misprinted label but realistically what are the chances of that? If I had the same symptoms on a cycle I would have reached the conclusion on gyno much quicker.

I came to the cissus as the culprit more due the fact that I cant figure out any other supplement that has even had rumors of effecting gyno.

BF% cant be more than 13%.

I took my first dose of Tamox 20mg last night. Ill see how it feels after a week and re-evaluate. When should I expect to see some relief from the Tamox? I'll have a-dex on hand in a day or so and could implement .125/mg/day if needed.

**M302_Imola** · 05-18-2012, 06:20 AM

Originally Posted by -DedicateD-

I thought the same thing regarding the cissus. I have taken it for awhile with no issues. I guess its possible its a misprinted label but realistically what are the chances of that? If I had the same symptoms on a cycle I would have reached the conclusion on gyno much quicker.

I came to the cissus as the culprit more due the fact that I cant figure out any other supplement that has even had rumors of effecting gyno.

BF% cant be more than 13%.

I took my first dose of Tamox 20mg last night. Ill see how it feels after a week and re-evaluate. When should I expect to see some relief from the Tamox? I'll have a-dex on hand in a day or so and could implement .125/mg/day if needed.

Yeah it is highly unlikely a label misprint but I wouldn't throw it out all together. I would run the nolva for about a week or more then access (nolva can take awhile to reach peak levels). If I were you I would run the nolva for a week before throwing in the adex. If after a week there is no sign of improvement then introduce the adex at a small dosage. You might want to read up (as I seem to recall but it's been awhile) that nolva + adex might not be a good idea. Seems like I've read something on here about this before but like I said can't remember exactly. Best of luck bro!

**Bevsta123** · 05-18-2012, 09:45 AM

should really consider posting this in the AAS Q&A section or PCT section, itll be more likley to be viewed mate

**NAUSA** · 05-18-2012, 11:01 AM

I would definitely go and have blood work done to check estro levels.

**-DedicateD-** · 05-18-2012, 10:59 PM

I felt a little weird posting in the aas or pct section. There are guys coming off of several comPounds after 12-15 weeks trying to level their hormones and I'm getting Gyno presumably from a slight increase in free test from an herbal joint supplement.

I've read mixed opinions on a-dex and nolva. At this point I'm slow to introduce more then one compound until Incan really evaluate its effectiveness. I'll give the nolva a wee or two to do its thing with the hope that it will vault any further Gyno production. Best case scenario it will reduce the size of the lump. Lump Still not visable in the mirror but not fun to feel. Not really a fan of walking around all day with one really hard nipple either.

Worst case scenario and going two weeks with no improvement or with worsening signs I can introduce adex or stop everything and start letro - I doubt it will come to that

**Ashop** · 05-20-2012, 06:57 AM

There are ALOT of things that can cause gyno besides AAS (ZANTAC,,SAW PALMETTO..just to name a few) I would get some blood work done
to see where your natural hormone level is and go from there.

**M302_Imola** · 05-21-2012, 05:52 AM

Originally Posted by -DedicateD-

I felt a little weird posting in the aas or pct section. There are guys coming off of several comPounds after 12-15 weeks trying to level their hormones and I'm getting Gyno presumably from a slight increase in free test from an herbal joint supplement.

I've read mixed opinions on a-dex and nolva. At this point I'm slow to introduce more then one compound until Incan really evaluate its effectiveness. I'll give the nolva a wee or two to do its thing with the hope that it will vault any further Gyno production. Best case scenario it will reduce the size of the lump. Lump Still not visable in the mirror but not fun to feel. Not really a fan of walking around all day with one really hard nipple either.

Worst case scenario and going two weeks with no improvement or with worsening signs I can introduce adex or stop everything and start letro - I doubt it will come to that

I like your plan of action in only introducing one compound at a time. Keep us updated and I hope everything works out.

**iSwanson** · 05-30-2012, 01:45 AM

First off I'm a nurse just so you know I'm not blowing smoke. And you can't be too careful with this, but if only one breast or nipple is getting the hard mass you may want to be scanned for breast cancer. I know that you normally don't have much if any tenderness with tumors, but you can't be too careful. Just because it's not as common in men doesn't mean it doesn't happen. If I was u I would go see your doctor, if just for the peace of mind. Your doctor could more then likely give you a probable diagnosis as well.

Hope your problem is resolved.

**M302_Imola** · 05-30-2012, 05:55 AM

Originally Posted by iSwanson

First off I'm a nurse just so you know I'm not blowing smoke. And you can't be too careful with this, but if only one breast or nipple is getting the hard mass you may want to be scanned for breast cancer. I know that you normally don't have much if any tenderness with tumors, but you can't be too careful. Just because it's not as common in men doesn't mean it doesn't happen. If I was u I would go see your doctor, if just for the peace of mind. Your doctor could more then likely give you a probable diagnosis as well.

Hope your problem is resolved.

I appreciate you input and you're right you can never be to careful but unfortunately his doc will prob not be well versed on curing gyno, most are quick to say "see a surgeon and get it cut out". Which is fine is you have a few grand burning a hole in your pocket and can afford the downtime!