I need a good Cutting Routine...HELP

**Undecided09** · 03-13-2006, 06:34 PM

I'm 19 years old, 5'9" 175, and I would be surprised if my bf was above 10. For the last year that I have been working out I have done almost all bulking, or bulking in my eyes, with a heavy load and low reps. I need to switch it up and go on a cutting diet, which I have, and a cutting workout regimen. As far as this type of training goes I am lost. I need a great cutting regimen that I can start like ASAP and work on all the way from now through summer. A complete and thorough cutting program for me would be SOOOO appreciated. Thanks for all the Help.
Newb.

**MartyMcFly** · 03-13-2006, 08:41 PM

I don't think anyone is going to make a workout for you try the search button.

***Doc.Sust*** · 03-14-2006, 02:29 PM

cutting is a matter of iet or cardio, not lifting, you can use a pogram for size or strength, but IMO there is no program that will cut. look at the Bizzilion programs in the sticky at he top of the page and pick you poison

**Undecided09** · 03-15-2006, 11:02 AM

i couldn't disagree more...Why do body builders like coleman weigh well over three hundred in the off season and like 296 during competition? your trying to tell me that to cut all that weight up all they did was run? No way. Also, why do you think there are different ways of training, i.e. heavy load low rep, lighter load, high rep, powermovements, etc. I feel its because the way you perform an exercise is very determinate of how you are breaking down your muscle....Because if it werent, that would be making the argument that doing sets of 90 percent load on the bench for 5 is the same feeling and tear as doing 75 percent or 80 percent load for 10-12, and thats just not true...

***Narkissos*** · 03-15-2006, 11:24 AM

My Regimen and Photos(Help Wanted, from the experienced)

~Narkissos

***Narkissos*** · 03-15-2006, 11:24 AM

Originally Posted by Doc.Sust

cutting is a matter of diet or cardio, not lifting, you can use a pogram for size or strength, but IMO there is no program that will cut. look at the Bizzilion programs in the sticky at he top of the page and pick you poison

Agreed

***Narkissos*** · 03-15-2006, 11:34 AM

Originally Posted by Undecided09

i couldn't disagree more...Why do body builders like coleman weigh well over three hundred in the off season and like 296 during competition? your trying to tell me that to cut all that weight up all they did was run?

In bold above: As a competitive bodybuilder my answer to that is no... Still Doc sust is more right than you can grasp. Have you ever cut before? No.. if you did you wouldn't be asking for an outline.

Stop typing for a moment and you'll get some insight.

When we cut, we don't make changes to our workout routines. At least i don't. Most of the top guys don't. Why? 'Cutting' is a matter of efficiently expending more calories than you ingest. Why did i put 'efficiently' in italics? Because it's the operative word. Sure doing a million reps per set will burn calories.. but that's inefficient. The most efficient approaches to the caloric manipulation necessary to facilitate 'cutting' are: the addition of aerobic exercise; coupled with the reduction of ingested calories; and, using bodybuilders like the aforementioned R. Coleman as an example, the addition of a metabolic stimulant.

What's this boil down to? "The cutting equasion= (diet+cardio)+ (a fat-burner).. With Diet and cardio being the more important determinants.

I've lost up to 40 lbs in 11 weeks during my contest preps... using diet and cardio. For 21 days during that time i used a low-dose thermogenic. Did i make changes to my workout? No. Did i need to? No.

That's my input: Cutting routines do not exist.

Originally Posted by Undecided09

No way. Also, why do you think there are different ways of training, i.e. heavy load low rep, lighter load, high rep, powermovements, etc. I feel its because the way you perform an exercise is very determinate of how you are breaking down your muscle....Because if it werent, that would be making the argument that doing sets of 90 percent load on the bench for 5 is the same feeling and tear as doing 75 percent or 80 percent load for 10-12, and thats just not true...

Of course they're different ways of training... but what does that have to do with cutting?

~Narkissos

**Undecided09** · 03-15-2006, 12:57 PM

When I mean cutting I dont mean losing weight as much as I mean sculpting or shaping? I just am having trouble grasping the idea that keeping the same workout routine and adding cardio is going to change the way my muscles appear...Yes i understand you are what you eat, Im starting a carb controlling diet, protein intake the same, introducing some cardio, I wanan see how that goes...

***Narkissos*** · 03-15-2006, 01:46 PM

Originally Posted by Undecided09

When I mean cutting I dont mean losing weight as much as I mean sculpting or shaping?

I understand where you've gone wrong... thought-wise

The process of 'sculpting and shaping' is facilitated through the loss of (fat) weight.

Yes it is as simple as:

Originally Posted by Undecided09

keeping the same workout routine and adding cardio is going to change the way my muscles appear...

One of the roles of weight-training in a cutting regime is to maintain lean bodymass (i.e. muscle). Generally the rule of thumb is: what works to build it.. will work to maintain it.

Originally Posted by Undecided09

Yes i understand you are what you eat, Im starting a carb controlling diet, protein intake the same, introducing some cardio, I wanan see how that goes...

good luck

~Narkissos

**Undecided09** · 03-15-2006, 02:17 PM

Ok So I'm gonna stay on my bulking routine then I guess right? Just addition of cardio twice a week and keeping my carbs between 85-100 per day? As well as my protein intake high still, 6 meals, veggies, etc....

***Doc.Sust*** · 03-15-2006, 02:48 PM

Originally Posted by Narkissos

I understand where you've gone wrong... thought-wise

The process of 'sculpting and shaping' is facilitated through the loss of (fat) weight.

Yes it is as simple as:

One of the roles of weight-training in a cutting regime is to maintain lean bodymass (i.e. muscle). Generally the rule of thumb is: what works to build it.. will work to maintain it.

good luck

~Narkissos

thank you for explaining the nark, i couldnt do it one more time this wk, i have answered this same question 5 times this wk alone!

***Doc.Sust*** · 03-15-2006, 02:54 PM

Originally Posted by Undecided09

When I mean cutting I dont mean losing weight as much as I mean sculpting or shaping? I just am having trouble grasping the idea that keeping the same workout routine and adding cardio is going to change the way my muscles appear...Yes i understand you are what you eat, Im starting a carb controlling diet, protein intake the same, introducing some cardio, I wanan see how that goes...

ok you use hypertrophy to build muscle, you have adipose tissue or fat covering that muscle, when you lose the fat, you see the muscle you have ganed through training. you can NOT change the shape or cut one area more than another by lifting a certain way. there is no such thing as spot reduction.

***Doc.Sust*** · 03-15-2006, 02:56 PM

Originally Posted by Undecided09

I'm 19 years old, 5'9" 175, and I would be surprised if my bf was above 10. For the last year that I have been working out I have done almost all bulking, or bulking in my eyes, with a heavy load and low reps. I need to switch it up and go on a cutting diet, which I have, and a cutting workout regimen. As far as this type of training goes I am lost. I need a great cutting regimen that I can start like ASAP and work on all the way from now through summer. A complete and thorough cutting program for me would be SOOOO appreciated. Thanks for all the Help.
Newb.

also, not to be cocky, but with you current height and weight, i would try to put on as much muscle as i could b4 i would even consider cutting,

***Doc.Sust*** · 03-15-2006, 02:59 PM

Originally Posted by Undecided09

I'm 19 years old, 5'9" 175, and I would be surprised if my bf was above 10. For the last year that I have been working out I have done almost all bulking, or bulking in my eyes, with a heavy load and low reps. I need to switch it up and go on a cutting diet, which I have, and a cutting workout regimen. As far as this type of training goes I am lost. I need a great cutting regimen that I can start like ASAP and work on all the way from now through summer. A complete and thorough cutting program for me would be SOOOO appreciated. Thanks for all the Help.
Newb.

also, heavy weights and low reps, DOES NOT equal bulking, if you are trying to put on size, reps btewn 8 to 12 with near failure weight for the first 2 sets and a third set to failure is how one would put on more size, this is called hypertrophy training, you need to read more on training and training methods

**SwoleCat** · 03-15-2006, 03:00 PM

Originally Posted by Undecided09

i couldn't disagree more

Comes here asking for a complete HOOK UP, then disagrees when solid advice is given.

Never fails....

~SC~

**Undecided09** · 03-15-2006, 03:01 PM

No I hear what your saying, but isnt it possible to cut fat, to bring out definition, while continuing a bulking routine to maximize building? I.E. Bulk in the gym with power moves, heavy load low reps, and at the same time add in some cardio along with an effective cutting diet, i.e. watch your carb into, keep protein high etc....

**SwoleCat** · 03-15-2006, 03:02 PM

Originally Posted by Doc.Sust

also, not to be cocky, but with you current height and weight, i would try to put on as much muscle as i could b4 i would even consider cutting,

Damn, u took what I was going to say next!

If that is you in your avatar thread starter, why are you cutting??

~SC~

***Doc.Sust*** · 03-15-2006, 03:07 PM

Originally Posted by SwoleCat

Comes here asking for a complete HOOK UP, then disagrees when solid advice is given.

Never fails....

~SC~

happens every day

**SwoleCat** · 03-15-2006, 03:08 PM

Originally Posted by Doc.Sust

happens every day

I know....

That is why I am closing my browser and leaving for a while!

Have a blast!

~SC~

***Doc.Sust*** · 03-15-2006, 03:10 PM

Originally Posted by Undecided09

No I hear what your saying, but isnt it possible to cut fat, to bring out definition, while continuing a bulking routine to maximize building? I.E. Bulk in the gym with power moves, heavy load low reps, and at the same time add in some cardio along with an effective cutting diet, i.e. watch your carb into, keep protein high etc....

sure absoutely,IMO you wont gain as much size at all if you are calorie restricting and doing cardio for hours,. your gains for size will not be as good

***Doc.Sust*** · 03-15-2006, 03:11 PM

Originally Posted by SwoleCat

I know....

That is why I am closing my browser and leaving for a while!

Have a blast!

~SC~

i am rt behind you bro, i ned the rest of the day to myself

**SwoleCat** · 03-15-2006, 03:11 PM

Why two threads on the exact same concept?

~SC~

**SwoleCat** · 03-15-2006, 03:11 PM

Originally Posted by Doc.Sust

i am rt behind you bro, i ned the rest of the day to myself

Great, have a good one!

~SC~

**Undecided09** · 03-15-2006, 03:12 PM

Ok cutting is the wrong word I guess, What I mean is how do I bring out my definition? Through diet I would assume? What I am getting is that your routine doesn't determine your appearance nearly as much as your diet...So if I can change my intake to maximize muscle growth, fat reduction, and keep my carbs limited, along with continuing a PROPER bulking routine, then I can see definition while building dense muscle?

P.S. I apologize for any "cockiness or ignorance" but when I ask about these things I like to be very thorough, in case u cant tell, haha, because I would rather ask these questions now, instead of 4 weeks later when im already into my routine saying, "what about this? or is this right?"

***Doc.Sust*** · 03-15-2006, 03:14 PM

Originally Posted by SwoleCat

Great, have a good one!

~SC~

i see this same damn thread at least 3 times a wk! ieveryone thinks they can cut by lifting. you have a good one 2 see you tommorow

**Undecided09** · 03-15-2006, 03:32 PM

Well I'm gonna cut by adding cardio twice a week, and changing my diet to no fat, except efa's, very little sugar, and a strict carb intake...along with sticking to my bulking routine...I think that might help, the diet and cardio will certainly help bring out the muslce I am attempting to build from my lifting, thats what I am getting, and I need to see what works for me i guess, I appreciate all the help...

***Doc.Sust*** · 03-15-2006, 03:37 PM

dude, it all good! no worries. you are on the rt track now and have a better idea than you did befre, cutting is really cardio an diet and that it good luck

**Undecided09** · 03-15-2006, 03:58 PM

Well after all that i think that diet and cardio definatley go through to me, but I mean I know that "the More the better" isn't necissarily true. I mean is twice a week 15 min a piece sufficient or how does that work?

***Doc.Sust*** · 03-15-2006, 04:02 PM

i would do 3 to 4 times a wk a half hour

**Undecided09** · 03-15-2006, 04:06 PM

Does it matter the type of cardio you do? cause I hate to run, can I ride the bike? or eliptical?

**SwoleCat** · 03-15-2006, 07:44 PM

Don't run if you want to preserve lean muscle mass. 30 mins. 4 times a week at 65-75% of your MHR is good. Bikes/recumbents/elipticals are great choices.

~SC~

**Undecided09** · 03-15-2006, 10:56 PM

Ok that sounds great, I hate to run, and I enjoy the bike/eliptical, for extend periods of time, much more than I do running for a half an hour....SO I think keep my load high, reps between 5 and 7 and my power moves, between 10-15 on my iso moves, along with my cardio should be good for building mass and staying lean...To bring that mass out watch my carbs, and keep my protein high, along with taking in some EFA's, supplementation ALA Glutamine, and L-Carnitine, How does that sound? EXPERIMENT, Ill give it a shot....

***Narkissos*** · 03-15-2006, 11:02 PM

Originally Posted by SwoleCat

Why two threads on the exact same concept?

~SC~

At least he only has two threads

Other members today have posted 3-4 threads.. each with the same content.. under different titles... in different forums all today lol.

It's been a field day

~Nark

***Narkissos*** · 03-15-2006, 11:04 PM

Originally Posted by Doc.Sust

i would do 3 to 4 times a wk a half hour

Ditto...4 times per week 30-45 mins moderate intensity.

***Narkissos*** · 03-15-2006, 11:08 PM

Originally Posted by Undecided09

Ok that sounds great, I hate to run, and I enjoy the bike/eliptical, for extend periods of time, much more than I do running for a half an hour....SO I think keep my load high, reps between 5 and 7 and my power moves, between 10-15 on my iso moves, along with my cardio should be good for building mass and staying lean...To bring that mass out watch my carbs, and keep my protein high, along with taking in some EFA's, supplementation ALA Glutamine, and L-Carnitine, How does that sound? EXPERIMENT, Ill give it a shot....

Sounds pretty good actually.

Would be interesting to see how you lay your program out.

Bump for a preview

~Nark

**Undecided09** · 03-15-2006, 11:45 PM

This is how I see it, lemme know what you think...
LIFT(4 sets of everything):
Monday- Chest: Flat bench 7-5 reps as weight increases, Incline bench/press 7-5 as weight increases, Incline flys 8-10 as weight increases, Decline Bench/Press 10-8 as weight increases, Decline fly's 10-8 as weight increases, possibly cable crosses just to finish em up.

Upper Abs at the beginning of lift, before weight training....

Tuesday- Back ("this is" Johnny Jacksons routine supposedly): Chin ups assisted weight, in order to do sets of 15-10 as hardness increases, Deadlift 8-5 as weight increases, Wide Lat pulldows 15-10 as weight increases, Lat Row 15-10 as weight increases.

Cardio for 30 min at the end of the lift....

Wednesday- Legs: Squats 8-5 reps as weight increases, Leg Press 8-5 as weight increases, Lunges 10 reps, Leg Extensions 15-10 as weight increases, superset with Calve extensions 15-10 as weight increases....

Lower Abs at the beginning of lift (this day is my most confusing for me, cause what about hammys and Calves)....

Thursday- Arms: Barbell Curls 8-5 as weight increases, Seated d-bell curls 10-6 as weight increases, Hammers 8-6 as weight increases, Spyder Bar 15 reps-hammers 15 reps-Standing concentrations 15 reps (This is a superset to finish 4 of these as well) Skull crushers spyder bar 8-6 reps as weight increases, Overhead extensions, two handed, 8-6 reps as weight increases, Straight bar cable pull downs 15-10 reps, Single Handle pulldown 15-10 reps.....

Cardio 30 min after lift.....

Friday- Shoulders: Military press 8-6 reps as weight increases, Dumbell press 8-6 as weight increases, Seated side lateral raises 15-10 reps, Barbell Shrugs (not smith machine) 10-8 reps, Dumbell shrugs 15-10 reps, Bent over raises (rear delt move, not sure what its called) 15-10 reps....

Oblique Ab workout at begining before lift....

DIET:
2 grams of protein per pound of body weight (175x2=350 grams per day) spread out over 6 meals/shakes every three hours over the course of a day (50-60 per meal/shake)

100 carbs Max perday, majority coming in the morning or post lift...Regular flavor oatmeal in the morning with breakfast, 60-70 grams of carbs post lift, other than that, just a little bit throught my other meals....

Fat- Very low fat diet, EFA's two fish oil tabs with my NONCARB meals/shakes....

Veggies- With every whole food meal, i.e. every protein thats not a shake....

Water- with every meal, and I never stop drinking it, have a water bottle in my hand, all day every day...

SUPPLEMENTS:
Protein (Procomplex by on), GLutamine, post work out shake and bedtime shake, NO2/CE2 by MRI, Multivitamin, Ageless (for ALA) 600 miligrams with breakfast, 600 4 hours later, L-Carnitine 500 miligrams in the morning.

Thats the Plan what do you think? I really appreciate all of your input, its so helpful, and incase you can't tell I ask a million questiosn about everything, i just wanna do it right, and I want someone who has experienced the right way to tell me what to do...Thanks alot...