best way to train?

[yungfaceb3]

I am now working out and have always been using the popular once a week workout split...in that I train each (major) muscle group in isolation only once a week. But I have recently considered training the old Arnold Schwarzenegger way. The Arnold way is the way he used to train and it is a 2-day training program in that you train every bodypart in two days. Also you train each bodypart 3 times a week. It goes as follows Mon/Wed/Fri= Chest & Back (am) and Legs (pm)..........Tue/Thu/Sat= Shoulders & Upper Arms/forearms............and you train calves/abs everyday. You also train with progressive resisitance..the first time you train a particular bodypart you you moderate weeight..the second time you use higher weight and the thrid and final time you train that body part that week you go heavy w/ power training and/or ballistic training. It seems solid as hell on paper, but my question is....how would the body recover enough to benefit? I am currently training on a 4 day on --one day off routine which i will alter as a i feel need to when i feel i need to but i still only train each mucscle group every 6-7 days..plus I go moderately heavy-heavy using high set training everyday (ala Lee Priest). do you think i should change it up to arnie's way...or not?

[Renesis]

I don't think you should be training like either of these guys... why? because you aren't Lee Priest and you aren't Arnold. You are yourself, the way your body responds to exercises and how many days you lift is totally on your shoulders to find out. For me I train 5 days a week MT THFS. Monday is chest/back, tuesday is legs, thursday is arms, friday is chest/back again, and saturday is shoulder day. Thats what works for ME because thats how my body best responds to workouts. Play around with what you feel comfortable with and find a routine thats for YOU and YOU only.

[bigboomer]

Arnolds routine is defineitely for the expert weight lifter IMO. But I dont believe in copying anothers workout just because you need to find what works for you. I do take bits and pieces from arnolds routine to use in my routine. I do use his chest routine, and I think it works great for me.

[Booz]

one word ''overtraining''..................................

[yungfaceb3]

I figured it was overtraining and pretty damn expert stuff. I am going to stick with my current training style for now. But in regards to "copying" other people's routines...i never have. I was simply referring to a workout split or routine used by arnold and never said anyhting about duplicating the exercises, reps, sets, and/or even the exact workout scheme as arnold. I simply questioned a loose interpretation of arnie's old program as it would apply to someone else. As for lee priest...your exactly right.i am not lee priest..and never have a claimed to be. I do not "copy" lee preist either i used the word (ala) to draw a connection between my training style and his own as "similar." And if i prefer to train in the same manner as he and it works for me..then thats not copying and i always make up my own workouts as i go. But i appreciate all the advice and i will take it all into consideration.

[notauser]

my opinion would be that if you can recover from it go ahead..

[yungfaceb3]

I am planning on trying it out actually. I am going to tranisition into it gradually. I will be starting with a 3-day split rather than 2, and will be training my legs seperately from my chest and back thus having only asingle training session during the day rather than AM/PM 3 times a week. This will give me about 72 hours of rest between each training each bodypart rather than about 48. I will also apply the technique of "progressive workload" in that the first time i train chest/back,legs, shoulders/arms....i will stick around relatively higher reps which means not going too heavy, the second time i train each body part it will be with a little heavier weight but not going all out, and the third and final time i train each bodypart i will go as heavy as possible to where i can only do 4-6 reps or i will replace my routine with all power movements or i will do some ballistic training...then after taking a day off i will restart the entire process. I will take days off accordingly....and i will adjust my nutrition accordingly. I think it will work..i think it may be difficult in the begining but if I do it right and have my nutrition on point i think overtraining is not a problem...i will let you all know how it goes ina few weeks. i mean damn it evidently worked for Arnold.

[777rocky777]

they have alot of fast twich muscles

[yungfaceb3]

who has a lot of fast twitch muscles? ONe of the things i like about this workout split is that using progressive workload you not only prepare your body for the heavy weights by a gradual increases throughout the week, but you get the advantage of both high rep, mid rep, and low rep training in that lower weight high rep works the slow twitch muscle fibers, the medium weight/rep works the mid twitch muscle fibers, and the heavy days work the fast twicth muscle fibers and develpe that mass and strength....ballistic training recruits the maximun amount of white, fast twitch muscle fibers which are about 22% larger than the red, slow twitch endurance muscle fibers. My thing is I LOVE training heavy and usuing ballistic training...I also enjoy doing medium weight/rep training but have very rarely done high rep training...so i think this will shock my body and produce major growth.

[yungfaceb3]

Back in the days of Arnold, Franco, Zane, and Oliva....high set training was the secret to obtaining a championship physique..but now..i see it more and more from the new generation of professional bodybuilders: low set training. I mean i stopped looking at bodybuilding magazines because besides about 100+ pages of muscletech product advertising there workouts that "supposedly" belong to massive professional bodybuilders such as Troy Alves, Jay Cutler, Johnny Jackson, Armen Schulltz, and countless others that I must call complete bullshit. I mean looking at these guys..they are great...I have the upmost respect for them and it cannot be denied somewhere along the lines of thier career they developed a deep understanding and talent in the sport of bodybuilding. But when i see these gargantuens training their chest once a week using a workout consisting of 3 movements and 3 sets a peice on machines...i cannot beleive it. I mean no matter how intesne...a 9 set workout once a week cannot be enough to obtain or maintain physiques such as theirs. I have done workouts with as little as 3 movements at 4 sets a peice but i was triseting all 3 movements and going all out for times sake and to shock my muslces...but 12 sets in less than thirty minutes using trisets is different than 9 indiivdual sets of machine exercises over a 45 minute period. Either these magazines are bullshiting...or bodybuilders today (not all of them) train like pussies..and i will never train like that. There are still those that train like animals that i have seen such as Branch Warren, Lee Preist, Coleman, Jackjson and so on.

[bigboomer]

I think it will work, let me know how it works out. I always get excited when I start a new workout routine, I just started mine this last week.

[thetank]

no doubt 4 days in a row is over training. if you are cycling maybe, even then i dont see how anyone could do it. if you can go to the gym and train hard and heavy 4 days in a row then you are doing something wrong cause that shit should kick your ass badly. i say train as often as your body allows, somtimes you can go 3 days in a row, sometimes you need more than one day off...ive always alternated heavy/light days and it works great.(one week ill do heavy back, light legs, heavy arms, light chest) the next week its(light back, heavy legs, light arms, heavy chest) that way i feel i can hit every inch of every muscle efficiently and still make it to the gym as often as ide like without being too sore. i dont believe in having a set number of sets either..my body tells me when im done, sometimes thats after 45 minutes, other times thats after an hour and a 1/2. training twice a day? ridiculous...and any workout routine you see in flex magazine is usually also-ridiculous...its best to do your own research and find what works for you. but imo, having alternating light/heavy days and taking as many days off as you need/training whenever you can is what works best.

[yungfaceb3]

Well I have finished up training every muscle group with higher reps, and yesterday I trained my chest and back with an increased amount of weight which consisted of mostly pyramids from 10 to 6 reps. Stayed around the 6-10 rep range with the majority of the sets being in the upper portion of that rnage and a few sets starting with 15 reps and pyramiding down. My chest is sore today and my back is a little tight..but not as sore as i thought it would be. So I now I have to train legs today and then tomorrow shoulders/arms in this "medium" weight/rep range. I am goign to take a day off after that and then begin my heavy training of chest/back using weight that allows only 4, 5,and at the most 6 reps a set. I am undecided on whether or not to incorporate ballistic training in with my heavy days or not...but i will see how it goes. The only thing i will max out on is DL's...i will pyramid from a weight that allows about 10 to a weight that allows 6.....then 2-3..then only one. It is actually going pretty well so far....i ma not losing strength as i feared...i guess because i am using mostly different mjuscle fibers every workout...but i will update again...

[yungfaceb3]

Finally got to my heavy day in my new workout split. I did chest and back heavy today. Also,for the first time, I used ballistic training and it blew my chest out! It was even better than typical heavy lifting pumps and i felt it run deep all the way to my breastbone. I look forward to seeing major growth from this heavy ballistic training in the near future. Anyways..i didn't superset chest w/ back at all today like usual..but rather trained both in isolation to allow full strength concentration on each rep of each set. Stuck to around the 5-8 rep range..most often at about 6 reps excpet on the bench in which I had a few sets at 4 reps. but this new split works great...no lack of pump or signs of overtraining..just damn good training. I can't ait to see how this works for mein months to come.

[Doc.Sust]

you will over train severely, YOU ARENT ARNOLD!!! you dont have his genetics, his work capacity and if your are not on aas, you dont stand a chance. it wont work, you will fry your cns. if you dont believe me, be my guest. you wont last 3 months doing this program first wk is easy, talk to me when you are at wk 6.

[Trapz]

I have ran that Arnold routine where you hit everything twice per week (I think it's the Basic Training split #2 in his Encyclopedia), but it just was not sustainable for me. I have a job and life outside of weight training (unfortunately ), so I find upper/lower or push/pull/leg splits, training 4 days per week, works best for me.

[Doc.Sust]

^^^ note the body building programs of todays top competitiors, they dont even use near the same volume and make huge gains. the guys today are bigger than they ever were(also has to do with modern drugs) but i have found time and time again more doenst equal better gains. example, look at the volume of the ironman HIT program..

another example, in powerlifting, athletes used to use the crazy sick sheiko routine, where you trained twice a day 4-5 times a wk, the worlds best powerlifter on the planet now only trains one time a day 3 times a wk and is light years ahead of any records from the past .more doesnt equal better.

[PEWN]

you will over train severely, YOU ARENT ARNOLD!!! you dont have his genetics, his work capacity and if your are not on aas, you dont stand a chance. it wont work, you will fry your cns. if you dont believe me, be my guest. you wont last 3 months doing this program first wk is easy, talk to me when you are at wk 6.

could not have put that better..

[PEWN]

i think is is actually a problem that people read a pro lifting day and think that they can do it... there is a reason why they are pro.... work your way up... ( quote from fast and furious.) do not jump in the ring with alli because you think you can box..

[yungfaceb3]

well I understand everything you are saying and I absolutely 100% agree. I am NOT ARNOLD....and as I have said before I never have claimed to be arnold...i am not michael jordan...eddie murphey....and i am not george w bush..and i have not claimed to be any of these people either. Now that we have my identity understood a little bit better let me explain why what you all say (though very informative and I beelive to be 100% accurate) does not really apply to this situation. First of all i am NOT following the exact workout split of Arnold Schwarzenegger..i am simply using a split laid out by arnold as a derivative of my own split in which i use an extremely loose interpretation of arnolds layout. This is how it is similar:
I train my chest and back together on same day using lighter weight...higher reps...then after doing the same for my legs...shoulders and arms in the following days...i increase the weight a little and train in a lower rep range (this day made up mostly of pyramids)..then after again training my legs, shoulders and arms int he same manner in the following days i once again train my chest and back together..this time using heavy ballistic training and low rep sets. I train my chest and back together the same day....my legs on their own day..and then i train my shoulders and arms together on the same day. That is what is simlar. Unlike arnolds split..however...the order in which i train each bodypart doesnt'y come strictly from a set routine...but rather whatever muscle i feel is most rested and recovered is what is trained. And unlike arnolds 6 dyas on..one day off split....i take days off as needed...be it every three days..four days..five days...or two days of in a row. I also only do power movements once a week for each bodypart. I also choose my own exercises and workout routines...i include "light" days as needed..light not olny in weight but in intensity. In arnolds Basic Training Lv1 and lv 2 ( as referenced above) Arnold proposes a 3-day split in which every 3 days eevry muscle in the body has been trained..and in his advanced training both lv1 &lv2...arnold lays out a 2-day workout split in which it takes only 2 days to train each muscle group in the body meaning each msucle group is trained 3 times in six days with only one day off. in MY variation of this training split it takes me anwhere from 11-13 days to train each bodypart 3 times this includes days off. I am usuing a loose interpretation of the arnold training split..but i am using instinctive training with it to combat its large demand on the body. Is this still WAY to overboard?

[Sir Lifts-a-lot]

it takes trial and error... If you really take the time to sit down and read Arnolds book cover to cover you will see that he says it took him years to find the work out that was right for him. I bet most of the guys in here are always trying to incorporate new things into their workouts to see if they work for them.

Start with the basic workouts and go from there. Arnolds is not for you, hell that workout is for no one... A lot of pros have said in interviews that it was even too much for them.

[Doc.Sust]

well I understand everything you are saying and I absolutely 100% agree. I am NOT ARNOLD....and as I have said before I never have claimed to be arnold...i am not michael jordan...eddie murphey....and i am not george w bush..and i have not claimed to be any of these people either. Now that we have my identity understood a little bit better let me explain why what you all say (though very informative and I beelive to be 100% accurate) does not really apply to this situation. First of all i am NOT following the exact workout split of Arnold Schwarzenegger..i am simply using a split laid out by arnold as a derivative of my own split in which i use an extremely loose interpretation of arnolds layout. This is how it is similar:
I train my chest and back together on same day using lighter weight...higher reps...then after doing the same for my legs...shoulders and arms in the following days...i increase the weight a little and train in a lower rep range (this day made up mostly of pyramids)..then after again training my legs, shoulders and arms int he same manner in the following days i once again train my chest and back together..this time using heavy ballistic training and low rep sets. I train my chest and back together the same day....my legs on their own day..and then i train my shoulders and arms together on the same day. That is what is simlar. Unlike arnolds split..however...the order in which i train each bodypart doesnt'y come strictly from a set routine...but rather whatever muscle i feel is most rested and recovered is what is trained. And unlike arnolds 6 dyas on..one day off split....i take days off as needed...be it every three days..four days..five days...or two days of in a row. I also only do power movements once a week for each bodypart. I also choose my own exercises and workout routines...i include "light" days as needed..light not olny in weight but in intensity. In arnolds Basic Training Lv1 and lv 2 ( as referenced above) Arnold proposes a 3-day split in which every 3 days eevry muscle in the body has been trained..and in his advanced training both lv1 &lv2...arnold lays out a 2-day workout split in which it takes only 2 days to train each muscle group in the body meaning each msucle group is trained 3 times in six days with only one day off. in MY variation of this training split it takes me anwhere from 11-13 days to train each bodypart 3 times this includes days off. I am usuing a loose interpretation of the arnold training split..but i am using instinctive training with it to combat its large demand on the body. Is this still WAY to overboard?

try your way and see if you make gains, if you feel to beat up take the volume down,

[yungfaceb3]

sounds like a plan

[Doc.Sust]

best of luck and listen to your body

[Ronnie Rowland]

well I understand everything you are saying and I absolutely 100% agree. I am NOT ARNOLD....and as I have said before I never have claimed to be arnold...i am not michael jordan...eddie murphey....and i am not george w bush..and i have not claimed to be any of these people either. Now that we have my identity understood a little bit better let me explain why what you all say (though very informative and I beelive to be 100% accurate) does not really apply to this situation. First of all i am NOT following the exact workout split of Arnold Schwarzenegger..i am simply using a split laid out by arnold as a derivative of my own split in which i use an extremely loose interpretation of arnolds layout. This is how it is similar:
I train my chest and back together on same day using lighter weight...higher reps...then after doing the same for my legs...shoulders and arms in the following days...i increase the weight a little and train in a lower rep range (this day made up mostly of pyramids)..then after again training my legs, shoulders and arms int he same manner in the following days i once again train my chest and back together..this time using heavy ballistic training and low rep sets. I train my chest and back together the same day....my legs on their own day..and then i train my shoulders and arms together on the same day. That is what is simlar. Unlike arnolds split..however...the order in which i train each bodypart doesnt'y come strictly from a set routine...but rather whatever muscle i feel is most rested and recovered is what is trained. And unlike arnolds 6 dyas on..one day off split....i take days off as needed...be it every three days..four days..five days...or two days of in a row. I also only do power movements once a week for each bodypart. I also choose my own exercises and workout routines...i include "light" days as needed..light not olny in weight but in intensity. In arnolds Basic Training Lv1 and lv 2 ( as referenced above) Arnold proposes a 3-day split in which every 3 days eevry muscle in the body has been trained..and in his advanced training both lv1 &lv2...arnold lays out a 2-day workout split in which it takes only 2 days to train each muscle group in the body meaning each msucle group is trained 3 times in six days with only one day off. in MY variation of this training split it takes me anwhere from 11-13 days to train each bodypart 3 times this includes days off. I am usuing a loose interpretation of the arnold training split..but i am using instinctive training with it to combat its large demand on the body. Is this still WAY to overboard?

You really are confused arent you..

[yungfaceb3]

confused...about what? not really...but anyways: Things have been going good since I ahve been trainignt his way. I can see strength/endurance and size increases already. It is taxing on the body...as I must train longer than I did when training only a single body part a day..but I have been cutting time with each workout...forming a pretty solid routine. Last about 10 days I have skipped over the "medium" intensity/weight day and went from training w/ light weight and high reps to doing heavy ballistic training. But then I went bak and hit my chest/back with a medium day using only dumbells for my chest and altering the order of my back training to shock the muscles. Today is another chest/back day. I am fully rested and was planning on making it a light weight/high rep day..but you never know. Also....my legs are responding to this form training VERY well. Doing a day of 15-20+ reps of squats/front squats/leg press and leg extensions really blasts the quads and high reps on the lying leg curls supersetted with bodyweight hamstring extensions/curls pump my legs up like crazy. Then the heavy day in hwich I use ballistic training and low rep/ heavy weight really packs on the size and power. But it is becomin more and more a "personal" routine as I alter and expand based upon what my body needs. It is going very well, i am benefiting from it, and I shall continue to train this way until and IF it becomes beneficial for me to change it.

[Ronnie Rowland]

confused...about what? not really...but anyways: Things have been going good since I ahve been trainignt his way. I can see strength/endurance and size increases already. It is taxing on the body...as I must train longer than I did when training only a single body part a day..but I have been cutting time with each workout...forming a pretty solid routine. Last about 10 days I have skipped over the "medium" intensity/weight day and went from training w/ light weight and high reps to doing heavy ballistic training. But then I went bak and hit my chest/back with a medium day using only dumbells for my chest and altering the order of my back training to shock the muscles. Today is another chest/back day. I am fully rested and was planning on making it a light weight/high rep day..but you never know. Also....my legs are responding to this form training VERY well. Doing a day of 15-20+ reps of squats/front squats/leg press and leg extensions really blasts the quads and high reps on the lying leg curls supersetted with bodyweight hamstring extensions/curls pump my legs up like crazy. Then the heavy day in hwich I use ballistic training and low rep/ heavy weight really packs on the size and power. But it is becomin more and more a "personal" routine as I alter and expand based upon what my body needs. It is going very well, i am benefiting from it, and I shall continue to train this way until and IF it becomes beneficial for me to change it.

I understand what you are saying..I also used to look to guys like Arnold for the answers. What you have to remember is Arnold would have gotten huge on just about any routine. Big muscles ran in his family.

The pump is good but the pump alone is not always an indicator of muscle growth. You've got to use proper periodization to get stronger and then incorporate training phases using more volume-hence getting a massive pump. You're not going to get a lot stronger by constantly using a high volume routine and it will quit working after 6 weeks.

I hope this helps.

[Machdiesel]

If your looking for a new way to train, and wanna see GREAT results, so to the top sticky "various Training techniques" and read up on the iron man HIT. More and more people are changing over to this style of training i.e only 2-4 worksets for each muscle twice a week. I PROMISE YOU WILL LOVE IT

[Godson]

i'm confused ?? i always belived it was basic workout knownledge that the muscle groups that best compliment eachother are...
Chest/Tricepts
Back/Bicepts
Shoulders/Traps ???
am i missing somehing, because everybody here sugguest
Chest/ Back
Bicepts/Tricepts
and im not even sure when you guys fit in shoulders and traps

[unclemoney]

^^^ note the body building programs of todays top competitiors, they dont even use near the same volume and make huge gains. the guys today are bigger than they ever were(also has to do with modern drugs) but i have found time and time again more doenst equal better gains. example, look at the volume of the ironman HIT program..

another example, in powerlifting, athletes used to use the crazy sick sheiko routine, where you trained twice a day 4-5 times a wk, the worlds best powerlifter on the planet now only trains one time a day 3 times a wk and is light years ahead of any records from the past .more doesnt equal better.

Exactly!!! I just finished up my 2nd run at IM's HIT routine and i'm about to start my 3rd go at it... I've never had such good gains (mass/size & strength).

[unclemoney]

i'm confused ?? i always belived it was basic workout knownledge that the muscle groups that best compliment eachother are...
Chest/Tricepts
Back/Bicepts
Shoulders/Traps ???
am i missing somehing, because everybody here sugguest
Chest/ Back
Bicepts/Tricepts
and im not even sure when you guys fit in shoulders and traps

bro it's good to switch it up... there's no "set in stone" way to train muscle groups and in which order...

perfect example is the routine I'm doing now. look into IM's HIT routine...

first 3 weeks combines like muscle groups together IE; the day you do bench you'll be doing skullcrushers... aka push with push and pull with pull, yeah it works but I don't like it because that leaves the muscle group pre exhausted from previous lifts... that's y I like the last 3 weeks of the program which does push//pull... like today I did bi's and tri's (among other things) but they weren't pre exhausted like they would be say for example bi's if I had done lat pulldowns and barbell rows right b4 jumping to barbell curls...

Both ways yield results, and switching up and finding out what is best for you is the only way to truely find out... I prefer push/pull vs. push/push and pull/pull, because of the fact that I can go all out and not be pre-exhausted.

[Machdiesel]

I used to train once a week, doing chest/tri back/Bi Shoulder/leg, AND MAN WAS IT A WASTE OF TIME!!! If you want growth, and good gains, the once a week is truely a waste of you time, it just doenst get the job done. Unclemoney has a nice post up right now that u can read and see how the ironman works, if uwant an indepth explanation go to the top sticky and read about it. It is truely the best routine out there for the "average" guy trying to get bigger and stronger, and still looking good(i.e it may not be best for powerlifters or pros)

[Machdiesel]

ohh yea, the arnold workout if prob not for you. Your just gonna burn yourself out and overtrain

[yungfaceb3]

well it has been SEVERAL weeks now of my doing the arnold type split and let me tell you...it works. I experianced it almost like some of you said i would...in that the first 1-2 weeks would be easy....but after that I would be fried. And i did start to feel fried. The supersets and longer workouts began to weigh on my endurance, recovery, and CNS just like you all said. But i switched it up a bit....I began go from doing a split of light weight/ high reps to a split of low rep/ heavyweight....but this did not work very well. I adjsted my routine accordingly and now i am back to the light/medium/ heavy schedule and I have actaully switched up my diet....and some other things..and now I am recovering fine and have the endurance to keep up with this routine. Better yet...i am seeing strength/ size gains...especially in the chest, traps, legs and triceps. I think that the reason arnold was able to obtain such an aethestic and symmetrical physique is in the very heart of this split. Doing this split....you burn ALOT of calories and create crucial muscular endurance. See i had nEVER done high rep/ low weight days before..ever...and now that i have become good at this..my heavy days have become easier and i have seen strength increases. Also, I have obtained a new favorite way of training. It used to undisputedly be heavy days..by far..now I think that I pefer the medium days where I pyramid the weight usuing medium/heavy weights and I see progressive strength gains. I am beginning to shorten up my workouts once again...shorter and more intense as i get used to this routine. Simply put...i love it...it works...and imma stick with it.

[taiboxa]

i have found that consistancy is far more important than the program itself.
of course you gotta find what works for YOU but.. you also gotta stick with it.. nothing happens over night sadly

[Stabone]

i agree with Tai, BUT I also believe that anything will work for a limited amount of time. Your body is not used to the type of training that you do so initially it will probably respond to the stimulus. Unfortunately, over time, you will start to fall into a catabolic state if you continue on the path that you are on. Your body will try an adapt to the load that you expose it to and it will learn to adapt to the style of training. Just because you make it through the workout more easily does not mean it is working. As your body adapts you will begin to over-train. It isn't your muscles that are responding, it is more likely that your CNS that is adapting to the workload. It will only keep up for so long. Good luck though. maybe it WILL work for YOU, but for the majority of people it will only keep them from achieving their goals. IMO

[yungfaceb3]

Yeah, you are right. MY body may get used to it so i need to switch it up. I am thinking of in about 4-5 weeks completely switching it up. Doing only exercises that I previously id not hardly ever do and not doing the ones I ususually do. Of course I am going to have to stick with squats...bench presses...and i also LOVE T-bar and barbell rows so I imma have to keep soem of the classic ones in the rotuine. I don't know...i will firgure it out though.

[taiboxa]

also.. heres a huge kicker that alot of people fail to fallow

LESS IS MORE!

[TexN343]

With the idealogy you have your CNS will be burned out badly in a few weeks. Pyramid sounds good on paper but doesn't work out as good in RL. I would switch it up weekly depending on how my progress was going.