chest

**madmustang** · 10-07-2007, 02:31 PM

one of my strongest parts of my body is my chest but i dont feel that im working them properly. the lateral part of my chest is always sore and i dont feel like im getting a good pump on the medial portion of my chest

**Ronnie Rowland** · 10-07-2007, 02:47 PM

Originally Posted by madmustang

one of my strongest parts of my body is my chest but i dont feel that im working them properly. the lateral part of my chest is always sore and i dont feel like im getting a good pump on the medial portion of my chest

What does your chest routine look like and which exercise is it that causes your lateral section to get sore?

**madmustang** · 10-07-2007, 03:17 PM

incline dumbells then to dips with weight and finish off with chest fly. this is new workout for chest, been on for a month. old workout was flat bench with bar and dips. not much results on med. lower chest

**nowdenlid** · 10-07-2007, 03:21 PM

Originally Posted by madmustang

incline dumbells then to dips with weight and finish off with chest fly. this is new workout for chest, been on for a month. old workout was flat bench with bar and dips. not much results on med. lower chest

not a good workout at all,,,,,sorry,,,,

**madmustang** · 10-07-2007, 08:12 PM

and why is that? would like to get input not criticism

**timidator34** · 10-07-2007, 09:09 PM

you need more power excercise. ex bench press, incline press, dumbell flat and incline press. u need to do more heavy presses.. use the dips and flys for the end of ur workout after u demolished ur pecs.. do about 3 or 4 excercises for pecs but have 3 of them compound movement sets from 6-8 reps.. u need to change the angles. so i would start out

flat bench - 3-4 sets 6-8 reps
incline bench- 3-4 sets 6-8 reps
decline press/ or dumbell press
heavy flys 2-3 sets 4-6 reps. used mainly for getting a good strench along wioth size and strengh..
if u have any molre enrgy do a burn out set with dips..

**sonnygll** · 10-08-2007, 01:17 AM

I would stick with either flat or decline bench for sternal and incline for clavicular. Switch up between barbell and dumbbell. I like to alternate weeks. One week of flat bar and incline dumbbell, then the next week incline bar and flat dumbbell. Dumbbells target the chest better, but barbells allow for heavier loading. Both are needed for proper chest development.

I don't like flys done in straight sets. All they are is bench with less stabilizers and your arm at a mechanical disadvantage which reduces loading. Not very effective like that. However I do like to superset with flys. Like bench and then flys to hit the chest harder. Or you can do the flys first to pre-fatigue the chest.

weighted dips are good to throw in sometimes. You need as wide a grip as possible. Then lift your legs up a bit so you lean forward a little. This puts a greater load on the chest. You can superset flys with these as well if desired.

**Ronnie Rowland** · 10-08-2007, 08:43 AM

You cannot isolate the upper and lower sections of your chest by doing inclines or declines. Some of my clients get a lot more upper pectoral stimualtion from decline presses by lowering the bar high on the chest than incline work of any kind.

If it's over-all mass you are looking for then you need to ask yourself one question. Which 2 exercises work your chest the best, especially the bigger mid-lower sections? Everyone is different due to having unique biomechanics.

For me it's the 15 degree barbell decline press followed by flat flyes on a machine or incline flyes using an inward pinky twist on a 15 degree incline. Dips work my tricep more and give me sore elbows. Incline presses works my anterior deltoids for the most part as do flat presses.

What's the 2 exercises that makes your chest pump and get really sore?

**madmustang** · 10-08-2007, 11:39 AM

Incline Dumbell Is The Only One That I Feel Gives Me The Best workout for my chest but not on the lower-med. portion of pecs. so it is not possible to stimulate different portions of ur chest? Decline Bench Is Not Available Where Im At. I WOULD LOVE TO USE CABLE FLYS BUT DONT HAVE THEM EITHER.

**madmustang** · 10-08-2007, 11:50 AM

Guys I Really Apreciate Ur Info

**sonnygll** · 10-08-2007, 08:25 PM

Originally Posted by SLINGSHOT TRAINING GURU

You cannot isolate the upper and lower sections of your chest by doing inclines or declines. Some of my clients get a lot more upper pectoral stimualtion from decline presses by lowering the bar high on the chest than incline work of any kind.

If it's over-all mass you are looking for then you need to ask yourself one question. Which 2 exercises work your chest the best, especially the bigger mid-lower sections? Everyone is different due to having unique biomechanics.

For me it's the 15 degree barbell decline press followed by flat flyes on a machine or incline flyes using an inward pinky twist on a 15 degree incline. Dips work my tricep more and give me sore elbows. Incline presses works my anterior deltoids for the most part as do flat presses.

What's the 2 exercises that makes your chest pump and get really sore?

While it is true that you can put more of the work on the calvicular head by lowering higher on the chest. Your statement about not being able to isolate one is false. While there is some overlap in bench, one head is worked to a greater degree in 1 exercise than another. Then if you notice the clavicular and sternal heads are not involved in the exact same shoulder articulations. therefore proving isolation is possible.
http://www.exrx.net/Articulations/Sh...l#anchor104396

The other way to prove the possibility is the separate neural connections controlling motor functions.

There is however no "mid-lower" section, as there is no mid or outer chest with the exception of the pectoralis minor and sarratus anterior. But those are entirely separate groups. The reason there is no inner, outer or mid chest is because there are not separate motor nerves for those parts of the chest.

To stimulate the chest better with dips, you need a wider grip and not to be at a 90 degree angle with the floor.

If flat and incline presses both hit anterior delts harder, you may need to lower the bar further, use a wider grip, or both. Of course you are going to feel more fatigued in the delts because they are weaker than the pecs and wear out first. However they recover quickly and after a few sets your chest should be fatigued provided the depth and grip are correct.

**Ronnie Rowland** · 10-09-2007, 07:42 AM

Originally Posted by madmustang

Incline Dumbell Is The Only One That I Feel Gives Me The Best workout for my chest but not on the lower-med. portion of pecs. so it is not possible to stimulate different portions of ur chest? Decline Bench Is Not Available Where Im At. I WOULD LOVE TO USE CABLE FLYS BUT DONT HAVE THEM EITHER.

Can you do a cross between a flat dumbell presses and flying motion for the mid-lower section? Does the flat bench press hit your chest or deltiods the hardest? I have a game plan!

**Ronnie Rowland** · 10-09-2007, 07:57 AM

Originally Posted by sonnygll

While it is true that you can put more of the work on the calvicular head by lowering higher on the chest. Your statement about not being able to isolate one is false. While there is some overlap in bench, one head is worked to a greater degree in 1 exercise than another. Then if you notice the clavicular and sternal heads are not involved in the exact same shoulder articulations. therefore proving isolation is possible.
http://www.exrx.net/Articulations/Sh...l#anchor104396

The other way to prove the possibility is the separate neural connections controlling motor functions.

There is however no "mid-lower" section, as there is no mid or outer chest with the exception of the pectoralis minor and sarratus anterior. But those are entirely separate groups. The reason there is no inner, outer or mid chest is because there are not separate motor nerves for those parts of the chest.

To stimulate the chest better with dips, you need a wider grip and not to be at a 90 degree angle with the floor.

If flat and incline presses both hit anterior delts harder, you may need to lower the bar further, use a wider grip, or both. Of course you are going to feel more fatigued in the delts because they are weaker than the pecs and wear out first. However they recover quickly and after a few sets your chest should be fatigued provided the depth and grip are correct.

I need to clarify my statement.

1) I was making reference to total isolation of an area. Some have been misled into believing that particular sections of a muscle can be totally isolated because they are able to feel different movements in one region of a muscle more than in others. This is because they perceive a difference between the neural feed back from motor units depending on the relative length of the fibers. However, this has nothing to do with being able to totally isolate any particular section of the muscle. Otherwise, there would be slackness in one area of the muscle when the other parts shorten and that simply does not occur. On the other hand, just because a muscle contracts as a whole doesn’t mean all parts of that muscle group will receive the same amount of work-load.

2) I agree with your statement about needing a wider grip and leaning forward when doing dips. Flaring out the elbows can also help.

3) I do not agree with the pectorals being stronger than the deltoids in all cases. Some people are born with dominant deltoids.

4) I agree with changing grips,etc to try and find a sweet spot.

5) Some people (due to their biomechanics) can isolate their upper pecs during inclines presses and their lower-mid pecs during decline much better than others, but this rule does not apply to everyone. Some people get more upper pec stimulation from declines presses (I fall into this category) and some get more mid-lower chest development from inclines. Why? It's because they found an angle that works more of their over-all chest.

Sonny, You brought up some very good points!

**madmustang** · 10-09-2007, 11:00 AM

ILL TRY THAT MY CHEST DAY. YES MY DELTS R KILLING ME THROUGH MOST ALL CHEST EXERSISES... so a fly motion on flat dumbell press.

**Ronnie Rowland** · 10-09-2007, 03:46 PM

Originally Posted by madmustang

ILL TRY THAT MY CHEST DAY. YES MY DELTS R KILLING ME THROUGH MOST ALL CHEST EXERSISES... so a fly motion on flat dumbell press.

I wish you had access to a slight decline barbell press because you sound like a perfect candidate. We used to take a small board to the gym and place it under the legs of a flat bench in order to take some of the workload away from the anterior deltoids. You would need to check with management before doing so.

During incline presses make sure and get a nice arch in the lower back in order to try and activate the pectoralis major. Flat flyes with a inward pink twist at the top of the contraction can also work well.

The idea situation is to work the strongest section of the chest first and then finish off the weakest section with a second exercise.

Keep us updated.

**madmustang** · 10-09-2007, 06:54 PM

thanks for your help. appreciate your time

**sonnygll** · 10-09-2007, 10:51 PM

Originally Posted by SLINGSHOT TRAINING GURU

I need to clarify my statement.

1) I was making reference to total isolation of an area. Some have been misled into believing that particular sections of a muscle can be totally isolated because they are able to feel different movements in one region of a muscle more than in others. This is because they perceive a difference between the neural feed back from motor units depending on the relative length of the fibers. However, this has nothing to do with being able to totally isolate any particular section of the muscle. Otherwise, there would be slackness in one area of the muscle when the other parts shorten and that simply does not occur. On the other hand, just because a muscle contracts as a whole doesn’t mean all parts of that muscle group will receive the same amount of work-load.

2) I agree with your statement about needing a wider grip and leaning forward when doing dips. Flaring out the elbows can also help.

3) I do not agree with the pectorals being stronger than the deltoids in all cases. Some people are born with dominant deltoids.

4) I agree with changing grips,etc to try and find a sweet spot.

5) Some people (due to their biomechanics) can isolate their upper pecs during inclines presses and their lower-mid pecs during decline much better than others, but this rule does not apply to everyone. Some people get more upper pec stimulation from declines presses (I fall into this category) and some get more mid-lower chest development from inclines. Why? It's because they found an angle that works more of their over-all chest.

Sonny, You brought up some very good points!

Agreed on number 1, total isolation is bologna. The one caveat is that it is possible to use 1 head a little for stabilization, while the other is not used at all in other exercises that do not target chest.

On number 3, I don't know that people are BORN that way. However it is true some people become that way. The chest SHOULD be stronger provided they do things right. If delts are stronger, close grip bench will equal standard.

**Ronnie Rowland** · 10-10-2007, 06:46 AM

Originally Posted by sonnygll

Agreed on number 1, total isolation is bologna. The one caveat is that it is possible to use 1 head a little for stabilization, while the other is not used at all in other exercises that do not target chest.

On number 3, I don't know that people are BORN that way. However it is true some people become that way. The chest SHOULD be stronger provided they do things right. If delts are stronger, close grip bench will equal standard.

Some people are indeed born with a limited amount of muscle fibers in the chest region. I've seen trainees that had a very big ribcage yet a very small chest. These people could demolish their whole pectoral region with flat bench presses alone. It takes very little work to make their whole whole chest sore, but they are never able to get their chest up to par with their genetically gifted body parts because of their poor genetics. For a lot of people it's not so much that they have a limited amount of fibers in the chest as it is trying to find the exercises, angles, and grip variation to fully stimulate the fibers. I think it's safe to assume that for many the chest is the most complex region to train.