troublesome shoulders...poor genetics or poor training??

[cockMOTHAeffinDIESEL]

I have the hardest time adding mass to my shoulders and i cannot figure out why. I eat right, i train right, and i get plenty of rest. Alot of ppl tell me it is just poor genetics and like all other situations with poor genetics, it can be overcome with proper diet and training. It just seems like i train so hard and my stregnth goes through the roof but i build little mass. I do maual labor so i only train shoudlers once a week because i hear that most ppl's problems with shoulders is overtraining because they use their shoulders doing so many other things throughout the day, like at work. I do 4-5 excersizes per shoulder workout which generally includes a few push excersizes and lateral raises. Does anybody have any suggestions that can maybe help me overcome this problem...thanx in advance.

[sonnygll]

I'd have to see your workout to say for sure what the problem is. Doing compound chest and back exercises is the best thing for shoulders because of the heavier load. A little direct shoulder work is ok though.

[InsaneInTheMembrane]

shoulders were a stubborn part for me as well, but once I dedicated a shoulder day (with bis) of about 12 sets (4 exercises - 1 compound, 1 front delt, 1 side delts and 1 rear delt exercise), my shoulders responded well.

genetics have a part to play, and so does your training. For me at least, direct shoulder stimulation proved to be invaluable because otherwise, with compound movements, it's easy for other muscles to overcompensate and harder to focus on a specific muscle group. Besides you're doing compound movements (like bench presses, squats, etc...) on other days anyways i would assume.

just my .02

[cockMOTHAeffinDIESEL]

I generally dedicate one day a week to shoulders however i may hit a few ab excersizes or some cardio afterwords because my shoulder workout is pretty short, but intense.

Here is my shoulder workout: 4 different excersizes

Seated overhead dumbell press: 4 sets, pyramid from light weight to moderate/heavy weight, starting at 12 reps in set 1 and ending with 4-5 reps by set 4

Seated military barbell press: 3 sets, pyramid from light to moderate/heavy weight, starting with 10 reps in set 1 and ending with 4-5 by set 3

Frontside lateral raises: 4 sets, 2 sets done with moderate weight and 2 sets done with heavier weight, 10 - 12 reps per set

Side arm lateral raises: 4 sets, 2 sets done with moderate weight and 2 sets done with heavier weight, 10 - 12 reps per set

That is the conclusion of my shoulder workout. As i mentioned before i only do this once a week, and not right after or right before a chest day so i dont interfere with recovery of other muscle groups.

[IronReload04]

personally, I think the best thing for shoulders is getting the chest and back bigger......deadlifts torch the rear delts.....mil presses, and even chest presses will completely take care of front and mid delts...

also, you have to take into consideration, that everyone has weak points...just be happy with what you have, and realize what your strength and weaknesses are



kind of goes without saying, but i cant say how important form is....its really easy to get caught in the trap of lifting with ego....perfect form, and mega protein.....food is the most anabolic thing out there.....1.5-2 grams protein per pound has guys growing like weeds

[sonnygll]

Looks like you are neglecting rear delts. You have to keep it even.

One thing I might throw in every now and then to really hit delts and traps all heads, is a hang clean and press superset with a rear delt row.

But other then that, really it's chest presses, bent over rows and deadlifts. It's because you can load them so heavy.

[Ronnie Rowland]

Your are over-training the front delts!

[IronReload04]

Your are over-training the front delts!

big time....

[sonnygll]

Your are over-training the front delts!

I third. Motion carried.

[cockMOTHAeffinDIESEL]

yeah i was woried about over training...so what should i do? maybe lay off the presses a little bit? Is training shoulders just once a week adequate for decent size gains?

[IronReload04]

yeah i was woried about over training...so what should i do? maybe lay off the presses a little bit? Is training shoulders just once a week adequate for decent size gains?

imo, volume is inversly proportional to frequency


that is, the higher the volume of workouts, the less the frequency needs to be.

you need to remember, that delts get worked with chest, with back, and then most guys give them their own day....you need to be recovering from your workouts so you dont overtrain...if you dont have the recovery ability to be fully recovered from chest and back when delt day rolls around, or you are a high volume guy who likes lots of volume thus recovers slower, I would consider doing switching to a push pull kind of deal

[sonnygll]

How about shrugs and laterals 3 sets each and overhead press and rear delt rows 2 sets each and drop the rest of it.

But concentrate more on chest press, bent over rows and deadlifts.

[mark_newcastle]

I have the hardest time adding mass to my shoulders and i cannot figure out why. I eat right, i train right, and i get plenty of rest. Alot of ppl tell me it is just poor genetics and like all other situations with poor genetics, it can be overcome with proper diet and training. It just seems like i train so hard and my stregnth goes through the roof but i build little mass. I do maual labor so i only train shoudlers once a week because i hear that most ppl's problems with shoulders is overtraining because they use their shoulders doing so many other things throughout the day, like at work. I do 4-5 excersizes per shoulder workout which generally includes a few push excersizes and lateral raises. Does anybody have any suggestions that can maybe help me overcome this problem...thanx in advance.

hit the nail on the head there!

how do your front delts feel after training chest? mine torch (generally down to genetics i believe, they take over pressing) therefore i reduced the pressing exercises in my shoulder routine, some weeks i won't even press for shoulders at all.

i dropped down to 9 sets a week of shoulders only, made sure they were 9 quality, isolation orientated sets and focused on going hard and heavy on the compound back and chest movements.

and shoulders improved

[cockMOTHAeffinDIESEL]

hit the nail on the head there!

how do your front delts feel after training chest? mine torch (generally down to genetics i believe, they take over pressing) therefore i reduced the pressing exercises in my shoulder routine, some weeks i won't even press for shoulders at all.

i dropped down to 9 sets a week of shoulders only, made sure they were 9 quality, isolation orientated sets and focused on going hard and heavy on the compound back and chest movements.

and shoulders improved

aww man same here...my front delts are on fire almost immideately after an intense chest train...i think im gonna try limiting my press excersizes on shoulder day too and just focus on heavy compound back and chest excersizes and see where it takes me...

[green22]

to me you either got em or ya dont.