Bird Legs...Need Help!

**usualsuspect** · 12-10-2002, 04:18 PM

5'10
200 lbs.
7% bf

Leg routine

Quads:
1. Squats- 225x20, 225x20, 275x12, 315x10
2. Leg Presses- 5(45)x15, 5(45)x12, 5(45)x12
Supersetted with Leg extensions-130x12, 130x12, 130x12
3. Hacks Squats- 3(45)x15,2(45)x12, 2(45)x12
Hams:
1. Seated- 130x12, 130x12, 110x10
2. Lying or Stiff Legs-
Calves:
1. Standing- 2(45)x20 of 5 sets (long, hard pause at top)
2. Seated - Light 2(45)x 20 of 3 sets
Heavy 3(45) of 3 sets

*Every set is full intensity and done to failure
*2(45) means 2 45 lb plates on each side
*train legs usually in the beginning of the week

Alright there's the layout and here's the problem...My legs are out of proportion with the rest of my body. My quads are satisfactory but its my calves (and thin ankles)that are the real culprit. I tried everything under the sun possible and nothing..no results. I want to continue hitting quads hard in order to grow but its only making my legs look more out of proportion. Should I scale back on quads (such as squats and presses) until my calves catch up. Should I just do high reps/ high intensity with my quads and hams and just murder my calves.
Sorry for the lengthy post but I have alot of questions and not enough answers. I could use some help.
Usualsuspect

**KeyMastur** · 12-10-2002, 04:23 PM

Bro, I've come to think that calves are inherited. Either you have them or you don't. But if you want them, you have work really fucking hard to get them.

Try mixing in some jump rope every now and then as well.

Do your kid a favor - get him a trampoline at a young age.

** And i don't want to see any more of this 315 x 10 BS. I wanna see 4 plates on that squat rack to where the barbell is bendin over your shoulders.

**Strut99GT** · 12-10-2002, 04:40 PM

I'm sorry to say that I agree with Key to a certain extent; I've seen a lot of huge guys with nicely defined calves (you can see that they've worked them a lot), but they just aren't in proportion with their massive upper body. It sounds like your leg workout is pretty intense, though; perhaps you should do calves first so you "limit" the amount of work the rest of your leg gets by how much your calves can take, as opposed to the other way around.

**usualsuspect** · 12-10-2002, 05:23 PM

Strut I hear ya, but last time I tried that my legs were shaking so bad I wasn't able to squat or press any weight.

And Keymastur, screw getting my kid a trampoline...he'll be getting calf implants and some winny in his baby bottle for his first birthday.

**usualsuspect** · 12-11-2002, 04:08 PM

Come on fellas...I know personal trainer's get paid to answer personalized questions like this, but I this is AR. Let's help a community meber out! Peace

**Yung Wun** · 12-11-2002, 04:21 PM

lower the reps
just kill them
like others said before its a hard road to travel
but keep in mine genetics does play a role
good luck

**Eddyflash** · 12-11-2002, 04:55 PM

bro I always do really freaking heavy squats... like 3-6 reps on the heaviest weight... also make sure you are not doing half reps..

**sp9** · 12-11-2002, 05:56 PM

I have the same problem. Quads look ok but my bone structure is bad. Hell my leg right above the ankle is so thin it is retarded. Even if I get the calves larger it will still look out of whack. I thank mom and dad!

**BigGreen** · 12-11-2002, 07:53 PM

Some of the people I've known who've had the greatest success manipulating their calves (and, yes, i come from the school that believes these are the muscle group most subject to heridity...though i'd put chest in that category as well, something many would disagree with) have hit them twice a week, with one day designated as HIGH rep day (in the 20's and 30's) with the other a big-time low rep day (4-8)...not sure what the science between this split is, but, invariably, each person who's managed to beat their genes appears to either intentionally or unintentionally hit this TYPE of routine...at least in my experience.

**FLEX_NuTz** · 12-11-2002, 11:00 PM

Its a fast twitch muscle. Dont hit them hard with weight.

I couldnt grow my calves for 2 years. Id put 4 plates on there, squeeze out 5 reps and think I was doing good. Arnold had the same problem - he couldn't compete cuz of his small calves. His trainer found out waht the problem was and just change his routine around a bit...

The trick is to knock off most of the weight, and increase your reps, 10-15. Get the full range of montion and really push the blood outwards in the direction you want it to grow. I notice a change in my calve size every time I work them out.

In fact.. my calve routine works so well Im usually crippled or hobbling around like an old man for 2-3 days afterwards

**TheGame826** · 12-12-2002, 03:06 PM

Flex, thanks the best info i think ive read in a while. i want my calves to get huge, im gonna do what you said, if theres any more info, please send it my way.

**dam225** · 12-12-2002, 03:35 PM

Bump to Big Green's repsonse.....

D

**caladin** · 12-12-2002, 03:48 PM

Squats 2x10 reps 135lbs (warmup)

Squats 1x20 reps 225lbs

Currently only able to do 6 reps on the second 20 rep set but that is my goal. Once I reach that Goal the start doing sets of 20? but keep the weght the same.. maybe say 4 sets?

What kind of result are to be gained from this kind of routine?

I really dont want my quads and hams any bigger.. just want them stronger and more defined.. Yes I relize that I need to cyt the fat of them also for defined but I want them to have a high strength and endurance factor combined?

I need to purchase pants that are 3 times bigger in the waist to fit my quads.. and that irritates me

*maybe this kind of routine can be used for those calves*

**Expendable** · 12-12-2002, 05:21 PM

It took me about 2 years of working on my calves until I got them to look good... or at least good as I see them.

A lot of it has to do with how you're resisting the weight, make sure you're using the ball of your foot. Make sure you go all the way down and have your feet point slightly in. The bulk of the calf muscle is on the inner side of the shin, so this makes sense.

It worked for me.

**saboudian** · 12-12-2002, 05:56 PM

In arnold's book, he talks about his calves and pretty much how they really sucked and how he built them. The first thing he did was to start wearing shorts instead of pants all the time, extra motivation u can call it i guess. He also recommended going as heavy as possible, and remember even going up a 1/4 inch counts. The part that really blew me away is when he said he did 500lbs for reps then he met some guy and started training with him and said that wasn't enough, cuz u really need to use a ton of weight to shock your calves. So arnold started doing 1000 lb calf raises, sounds insane and i had to check my eyes but thats right 1000lb calf raises. I guess that gives u an idea of the fierceness that u need to attack calves with.

**bumdart420** · 12-12-2002, 07:03 PM

A trick I Have learned to really blast those calves into growing is this. Ever notice why most hikers (and I mean people who hike very often not just once a month) have larger than normal calves? The reason is they get a great work out getting up the hill but (and this is where they get the best workout) on the way down the wieght on their calves increases by up to 40% due to the angle of the hill. They have to support more wieght on their calves going down (to keep from rolling down the hill) than they do going up. Try lifting a heavy wieght doing standing calve raises with both legs as much as possible. When you start to tire out lift with both feet than LOWER WITH ONE FOOT. The amount of force on the eccentric movement will be TWICE what you lifted going up and we all know that the eccentric moves usually cause the most tearing of muscle fibre. Believe this system works. Keep us posted on your progress. don't forget to keep your knee slighlty bent, it causes more fibers to become activated and "roll" the ball of your foot instead of just raising your heel up and down. Ouch FEEL THE BURN!!!!

**Warrior** · 12-17-2002, 03:12 PM

Start using Strength Shoes - I have seen miracles happen with thse puppies. You start at 15 minutes and work yourself up to an entire training session with them on. Don't use them everyday.

Calves grow with more time under tension - use heavy weight but make sure you do not bounce it, that is very common and takes the tension off the calves. Both Quads and Calves hypertrophy better at 12-15 reps because of they favor more slow-twitch fibers than fast. On the opposite side are hamstrings which are predominently fast-twitch, Hams get hit hard a more normal 6-12 reps for hypertrophy.

I wouldn't suggest stop working Quads/Hams to bring up calves. A better approach is to prioritize them. Hit them first while you are your strongest. Also, working in some time with the strength shoes and making sure your form while burning calves is perfect.

BTW - Calve machines that bend your knees are more for shape, straight leg movements like Donkey Calve Raises and Standing Toe Raise are good at hitting the beef of the calves, no pun intended...

**majorpecs** · 12-19-2002, 08:12 PM

I am with Arnold...I put about 700lbs on the leg press machine and 3 sets of 20 or failure....FULL range of movement and heavy weight is key in my opinion.....

**usualsuspect** · 01-16-2003, 12:17 AM

Thanks everyone for the valuable input. I took all suggestions in consideration and started hitting my calfs with a different approach. I train calves twice a week, one day heavy and the other light. In the beginning of the week I do seated calves w/ high reps (20-30 reps) and towards the end of the week I do standing calves w/ low reps (12-15). I make sure I use full range of motion and squeeze at contraction. Started wearing strength shoes around the house as much as possible too. Been doing this for a few weeks and already noticed a difference.
Usualsuspect

**Steele** · 01-16-2003, 12:29 PM

this thread is focusing on calves, so i will go back to the quads. for building legs use the priority principle and work them first in your weekly routine. this way you can't skip out on leg day. this has worked really well for me. If i had skipped as many workouts with my upper body then it would be small like my lower. no more skipping legs!!!

**yellows2k** · 01-16-2003, 02:03 PM

If you want your quads to grow, I think you need to constantly overload them. 20 reps is hardly overloading at all in my opinion. your squat numbers look decent, i would just go heavier with fewer reps. i know you can put 4 plates on each side and get 2-3, so hwy not?

**usualsuspect** · 01-20-2003, 12:16 AM

Originally posted by yellows2k
If you want your quads to grow, I think you need to constantly overload them. 20 reps is hardly overloading at all in my opinion. your squat numbers look decent, i would just go heavier with fewer reps. i know you can put 4 plates on each side and get 2-3, so hwy not?

No flame to ya bro, but if you read the entire thread its not my quads that are the problem, its my calves. Your suggesting for me to hammer my quads with heavier weight, but don't you think it would be self-defeating in the fact that my quads would become larger in comparison to my calves. Again, its my calves that are the problem not my quads.

**yellows2k** · 01-20-2003, 08:06 AM

Sorry I didn't read that last paragraph.

**Warrior** · 01-22-2003, 12:43 AM

Hey brah... doin' some reading in da kine and wanted to ask you a question: do your calves insert high near the knee or is the belly long - a typical size calve muscle?

**usualsuspect** · 01-22-2003, 06:03 PM

Originally posted by Warrior
Hey brah... doin' some reading in da kine and wanted to ask you a question: do your calves insert high near the knee or is the belly long - a typical size calve muscle?

Warrior- I wish I had some pics to post but I don't. I do plan on posting some pics for AR's first annual BB competition though. Anyhow, my calves are narrow and long, accompanied with thin ankles. Hence...I never wear shorts! I'm telling you man, I must of tried every known calve routine with little to no success. Surgery has crossed my mind more then once but I'm still determined to beat the shitty genes my mom passed on to me by good ol' hardwork. Well, I think you get the picture by now. Any more ideas, please throw em' my way...Usualsuspect

PS. BigD recently posted a great advanced calf routine that looks killer. Gonna give it a shot

**Warrior** · 01-23-2003, 12:32 AM

Originally posted by usualsuspect

Warrior- I wish I had some pics to post but I don't. I do plan on posting some pics for AR's first annual BB competition though. Anyhow, my calves are narrow and long, accompanied with thin ankles. Hence...I never wear shorts! I'm telling you man, I must of tried every known calve routine with little to no success. Surgery has crossed my mind more then once but I'm still determined to beat the shitty genes my mom passed on to me by good ol' hardwork. Well, I think you get the picture by now. Any more ideas, please throw em' my way...Usualsuspect

PS. BigD recently posted a great advanced calf routine that looks killer. Gonna give it a shot

Go get the book, The Poliquin Principles by Charles Poliquin. Chapter 10 well say it all for bringing up Calves... I was about to regergetate some of it - but the info is too much. You should get the book. Or at least see if it is at a book store for you to thumb through.

BTW - if you are not familiar with Poliquin, he is a very successful strength coach who has worked with bodybulders and Gold Medal Olympic athletes. An example of his search for the truth - he learned German simply so he could traslate some Eastern Bloc texts.

The book will teach a shit load more than just calves though - it is a great reference to own from front to back:

**usualsuspect** · 01-26-2003, 06:25 PM

Originally posted by Warrior

Go get the book, The Poliquin Principles by Charles Poliquin. Chapter 10 well say it all for bringing up Calves... I was about to regergetate some of it - but the info is too much. You should get the book. Or at least see if it is at a book store for you to thumb through.

BTW - if you are not familiar with Poliquin, he is a very successful strength coach who has worked with bodybulders and Gold Medal Olympic athletes. An example of his search for the truth - he learned German simply so he could traslate some Eastern Bloc texts.

The book will teach a shit load more than just calves though - it is a great reference to own from front to back:

Warrior:
I tried a bunch of different places but no one seems to have this book in stock. I read somewhere that there are several web sites devoted to info on Charles Poliquin but cannot find the sites. Is there a calf program given in chapter 10 that u could give me or should I just wait until the book is available.
As Always...Thanks for the help bro,
Usualsuspect

**Warrior** · 01-26-2003, 07:42 PM

You can get it from Amazon. I hyperlinked the image above. Bookstores stock more "buyer friendly" books. If the sports section was stocked by a real time coach - this book would always be there. Amazon ships pretty fast. Like I said, it really is a lot of info to retype and would do you better to just order it. It isn't really a recommended routine but more on how the calves respond to training and some training myths discussed - so you can create your own by getting a good understanding on calve development. Really good info all around - buy the book.