Deteriorating disc, No Squats! What to do?

**pt923** · 11-09-2009, 07:14 PM

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I was having some sevier lower back pain when doing squats and leg press. My Dr. took some x-rays and let me know I have a deteriorating disc and bone spurs up my last 4 vertebrae. He said there's really nothing I can do because I am only 24 years old. I love to compete, and I am worried about my leg growth without being able to do squats or heavy leg press. I also can't do deadlifts, heavy shrugs, or heavy shoulder press. Right now for my legs i do a lot of 1 leg exercises (1 leg presses, 1 leg squats, lunges) so that I don't put too much weight on myself. My stats are: 24 years old, 5' 11", 230lbs off season, 205 for competitions. Before I was told this news I was squating 480 lbs and dead lifting 565 lbs. If anyone has any info or has experienced this please let me know, or if anyone can think of some good exercises I can do to get some size on please post them.

**Ronnie Rowland** · 11-10-2009, 11:38 AM

Originally Posted by pt923

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I was having some sevier lower back pain when doing squats and leg press. My Dr. took some x-rays and let me know I have a deteriorating disc and bone spurs up my last 4 vertebrae. He said there's really nothing I can do because I am only 24 years old. I love to compete, and I am worried about my leg growth without being able to do squats or heavy leg press. I also can't do deadlifts, heavy shrugs, or heavy shoulder press. Right now for my legs i do a lot of 1 leg exercises (1 leg presses, 1 leg squats, lunges) so that I don't put too much weight on myself. My stats are: 24 years old, 5' 11", 230lbs off season, 205 for competitions. Before I was told this news I was squating 480 lbs and dead lifting 565 lbs. If anyone has any info or has experienced this please let me know, or if anyone can think of some good exercises I can do to get some size on please post them.

I would advise against doing anything one leg at a time as it causes the spine to twist and could cause one of your already weakened disk to rupture. Obviously, squats and leg presses are out but there are some other options.

Do you have access to a hammer strength squat machine? There are two versions-(a plate loaded one) and (one were you just put a pin into the weight stack). Some people in your situation tend to do better with the plate loaded one but I do much better with the other.

Leg extensions are okay given you do them strict for higher reps (12-15)

You can do overhead presses on a hammer strength machine.

For hams you can do seated leg curls.

**pt923** · 11-10-2009, 06:36 PM

Originally Posted by Ronnie Rowland

I would advise against doing anything one leg at a time as it causes the spine to twist and could cause one of your already weakened disk to rupture. Obviously, squats and leg presses are out but there are some other options.

Do you have access to a hammer strength squat machine? There are two versions-(a plate loaded one) and (one were you just put a pin into the weight stack). Some people in your situation tend to do better with the plate loaded one but I do much better with the other.

Leg extensions are okay given you do them strict for higher reps (12-15)

You can do overhead presses on a hammer strength machine.

For hams you can do seated leg curls.

We have a hammer strength leg press and a plate loaded hacks squat, but no hammer strenghth squat machine. What kind of work out would you you do for legs if you were in my position? I split up quads and hams (quads-tues. and hams sat.) this is what i do right now:

Quads-
Warm up- light leg extensions ( usually one leg)
Hip Belt squats (was doing 315lbs and broke belt today. need new one.)
One leg leg press
Light hack squats
Light db walking lunges
sissy squats
calves on hammer strength leg press
calves(1 leg at a time) leg press

Hams-
Warm up- seated leg culs (usually one leg)
Light romanian deads
high one leg leg press
lying leg curls
go outside and push truck (every other sat. for fun)
seated calves
dokey calf raises

I have read many of your post. You seem very educated. I appriciate any advice you give me. I will definatly use all the advice. thanks.

**pt923** · 11-11-2009, 03:04 PM

I started this thread because I needed some help and because I am sure that there are more people out there with back problems. Before I got this news about my back I had hurt it a few times, but got to go to cabo san lucas for my honeymoon. I thought that would give my back time to heal up; so, when we were flying back I really got in my mind that I was gonna train super hard when I got home for my next contest and get the motivation to try to go pro. I started training the next day I got back home and felt real good. But then leg day came around and I tweeked my back again and went and got the x-rays. And I can remember thinking, "there's no way I can go as far as I want to go in bodybuilding with a bad back, but now I've got the confedence back that I can still do whatever it takes; I just have to take another road to get there. I want others with back problems or any problems to know that it is still possible to persevere and reach their goals. Dreams may change, but you still reach for them.

**goodlifting** · 11-11-2009, 10:51 PM

i can't provide the best advise on your back problem but i know you can get through it. i train heavy with some of my training partners and they have the same problem as you. They just have to train smart and really listen to their bodies when it comes to training.

i was out for a solid year because of some knee problems and i'm just now getting back into it. i'm still babying my knees but i'm able to hit 100% of what i used to before my injury. i suprised the living shit out of myself. the reason that i got through it is because i trained parts of my body that i could and built a solid foundation to start hitting the weights again hard.

at the point you are at right now, i would suggest focusing on recovery more than training. slowly ease into your exercises and build your strength. it will be slow and painful but if you get advise from as many doctors, pt's, and clinics as you can and follow the suggestions that work best for you, you will make it.

i'm just trying to help you out because i'm going throught the same shit, just a different body part. stick with it.

**Ronnie Rowland** · 11-15-2009, 12:07 PM

Originally Posted by pt923

We have a hammer strength leg press and a plate loaded hacks squat, but no hammer strenghth squat machine. What kind of work out would you you do for legs if you were in my position? I split up quads and hams (quads-tues. and hams sat.) this is what i do right now:

Quads-
Warm up- light leg extensions ( usually one leg)
Hip Belt squats (was doing 315lbs and broke belt today. need new one.)(avoid)
One leg leg press (avoid)
Light hack squats (good)
Light db walking lunges (avoid)
sissy squats (good)
calves on hammer strength leg press
calves(1 leg at a time) leg press (avoid)

Hams-
Warm up- seated leg culs (usually one leg) (do two legs at a time)
Light romanian deads (avoid)
high one leg leg press (avoid)
lying leg curls ((you can actually do these one leg at a time)
go outside and push truck (every other sat. for fun)
seated calves
dokey calf raises

I have read many of your post. You seem very educated. I appriciate any advice you give me. I will definatly use all the advice. thanks.

I would most certainly train quads and hams on same day because training either part is going to cause back pain. No need in irritating your back twice a week! Do legs on the weekend inorder to give yourself some recovery before the week starts.

I'm not crazy about your exercise optins but I would start out with leg presses (wide stance) and then finish off with some (close stance) hack squats. Do not bring your knees close to your chest on leg presses or you are going to hurt. Don't go down too far on hacks or you will hurt. I would keep my reps high 12-20 for all quad exercises. You could also finish off with some high rep leg extensions. If you feel pain during any of these exercises you'll need to mkae some adjustments.

NOTE: Recline seat bacl as far as possible when doing leg presses and place feel on the lowest end of the foot pad as you possibly can. You can actually slide up a bit off the seat during the movement to help take strain off lower back. By keeping your butt off the seat by a few inches it allows you to put your feet even lower on the foot pad. Remember, the higher your feet at the more stress of the back. So, you should try to make this exercise a modified squat. By doing so it places more stress on the knees so be careful and wrap them.

For hams I would begin with seated leg curls to pre-fatigue the hams then see if you can tolerate some very strict one leg at a time lying leg curls. Wear your belt to help avoid twisting.

Ice your back after training and take ibuoprofen as needed.

If you had acccess to the hammer strength squat machine it would help a great deal.

**inheritmylife** · 11-15-2009, 12:39 PM

Regarding your diagnosis, I would strongly suggest that you get several opinions from different doctors. I think you'll find that they may differ by quite a bit.

Also, at your age you may be a very good candidate for surgery if needed. A good orthopedic surgeon can work magic.

**pt923** · 11-15-2009, 05:11 PM

Originally Posted by inheritmylife

Regarding your diagnosis, I would strongly suggest that you get several opinions from different doctors. I think you'll find that they may differ by quite a bit.

Also, at your age you may be a very good candidate for surgery if needed. A good orthopedic surgeon can work magic.

Yeah, about the surgery, I would like to do something like that, but I just dont know if my back would ever be the same again afterwards. If I dont tweek my back by just staying smart with my training it doesn't ever hurt me. but when I did tweek it those three times it was some seveir pain. My back hasn't hurt me in probably 3 or 4 months. If a dr. did tell me that surgery was a good option for me i would consider it.

**pt923** · 11-15-2009, 05:06 PM

Originally Posted by Ronnie Rowland

I would most certainly train quads and hams on same day because training either part is going to cause back pain. No need in irritating your back twice a week! Do legs on the weekend inorder to give yourself some recovery before the week starts.

I'm not crazy about your exercise optins but I would start out with leg presses (wide stance) and then finish off with some (close stance) hack squats. Do not bring your knees close to your chest on leg presses or you are going to hurt. Don't go down too far on hacks or you will hurt. I would keep my reps high 12-20 for all quad exercises. You could also finish off with some high rep leg extensions. If you feel pain during any of these exercises you'll need to mkae some adjustments.

NOTE: Recline seat bacl as far as possible when doing leg presses and place feel on the lowest end of the foot pad as you possibly can. You can actually slide up a bit off the seat during the movement to help take strain off lower back. By keeping your butt off the seat by a few inches it allows you to put your feet even lower on the foot pad. Remember, the higher your feet at the more stress of the back. So, you should try to make this exercise a modified squat. By doing so it places more stress on the knees so be careful and wrap them.

For hams I would begin with seated leg curls to pre-fatigue the hams then see if you can tolerate some very strict one leg at a time lying leg curls. Wear your belt to help avoid twisting.

Ice your back after training and take ibuoprofen as needed.

If you had acccess to the hammer strength squat machine it would help a great deal.

So, you think my workout should look like this?:

Exercise: Sets: Reps:
Wide Stance Leg Press 4 20,15,12,10
Close Stance Hacks 4 20,15,12,10
Leg Extensions 4 20,20,15,15
Seats Leg Curls 4 15,15,12,10
Lying Leg Curls 4 15,12,10,10

Do you think I could grow working out this way? I just started splitting my hams and quads a year ago and my legs grew very well; that's why I stuck with it. But if once a week makes more since to you i will definatly do it.

**Ronnie Rowland** · 11-17-2009, 03:11 PM

Originally Posted by pt923

So, you think my workout should look like this?:

Exercise: Sets: Reps:
Wide Stance Leg Press 4 20,15,12,10
Close Stance Hacks 4 20,15,12,10
Leg Extensions 4 20,20,15,15
Seats Leg Curls 4 15,15,12,10
Lying Leg Curls 4 15,12,10,10

Do you think I could grow working out this way? I just started splitting my hams and quads a year ago and my legs grew very well; that's why I stuck with it. But if once a week makes more since to you i will definatly do it.

I would try this and see how your back does with this approach. Your back health is more important than winning a trophy. I've been around this sport for a long time and you've got to trust me on this one.

If I could work with you one on one at my gym then I could trouble shoot the problem. If these exercises hurt let me know!
In regards to training legs only once a week, it all boils down to your genetics on how big those legs are going to get. Keep it brief and intense and you will grow to the best of your ability. My wife does only 8 sets for quads and 6 for hams and they are huge!!

I would do only 6 sets for hams. And if leg ext do not hurt you and the compound movements do, then try 3 sets leg press, 3 sets hacks and 6 sets leg ext at the end. Keep in mind these are work sets and do not include warm up sets. And no warm up will be needed for hams. You will be hosed if you push each set.

**rockinred** · 11-15-2009, 01:00 PM

^^^ good point. I would definitely get a few more opinions... becareful either way, if you look hard enough someone will give you the answer you want, which might not be in your best interest. I think if you really have that diagnosis, you should consider training as best as you can.... competing might be a bit far fetched with those kind of limitations. Good luck and I don't think any serious lifter out there isn't working with or around somewhat of an injury. Just be smart with your life and health.

**stevey_6t9** · 11-17-2009, 05:38 AM

hey dude i got the same problem. i got a wearing down on my L4-L5 and man does it suck. and plus im 18. I am doing physiotherapy at uni and just because you have a your back problem you shouldnt give up on most exercises just learn to rearange them to fit your needs. for example learning a neutral alignment posture during barbell rows or quiting them and doing lying t-bar rows on a bench. use a kidney belt for all back and lower body exercises. improve your posture during the day by sitting correct. place a pillow under your legs while lying down to minimise pain. theres heeps of ways iv ebeen taught and it has helped me. regarding the best exercisesto help improve your back wuld be reverse hyper extensions. powerlifter great louie simmons invented them so check them out they defiently will help.

**pt923** · 11-17-2009, 11:32 AM

Originally Posted by stevey_6t9

hey dude i got the same problem. i got a wearing down on my L4-L5 and man does it suck. and plus im 18. I am doing physiotherapy at uni and just because you have a your back problem you shouldnt give up on most exercises just learn to rearange them to fit your needs. for example learning a neutral alignment posture during barbell rows or quiting them and doing lying t-bar rows on a bench. use a kidney belt for all back and lower body exercises. improve your posture during the day by sitting correct. place a pillow under your legs while lying down to minimise pain. theres heeps of ways iv ebeen taught and it has helped me. regarding the best exercisesto help improve your back wuld be reverse hyper extensions. powerlifter great louie simmons invented them so check them out they defiently will help.

Can you still do squats, lunges, or really any exercise with much weight on your back?

**stevey_6t9** · 11-17-2009, 10:03 PM

i can still do exercises with heavy weight on my back you just have to adjust your spine to the right degree. keeping your back straight at all times is crucial. try avoid heavy squats and do front squats which prevent you from leaning forward, and with lunges always keep a straight back

**pt923** · 11-18-2009, 01:02 PM

Originally Posted by stevey_6t9

i can still do exercises with heavy weight on my back you just have to adjust your spine to the right degree. keeping your back straight at all times is crucial. try avoid heavy squats and do front squats which prevent you from leaning forward, and with lunges always keep a straight back

Ok. thanks. I didn't think of front squats but that sounds like a good idea. I never really liked fornt squats all that much, but you gotta do what you gotta do.