Trouble with pull ups!

[RugbyKid]

So I've noticed that although my back is not weak, I still can't do pull ups to save my life. A buddy said that just practice and through gaining muscle memory will help over time. Is there anything else, certain exercises, I can do to get better?

[gearbox]

U get better at pull ups by doing pull ups. When I started I could only do 3. Then it increased pretty fast from there. If your gym has an assisted pull up machine you can use.that for more reps.

[RugbyKid]

I'll make sure to get at that machine then! Thanks....buddy!

[Back In Black]

A trick that worked for me when I couldn't do them was, try to do weighted pullups! After a couple of attempted sets with additionl weight and then trying bodyweight pullups they were much easier. Then just practice. Get your lifting buddy to assist on a couple of reps too. Before long you'll be doing weighted pullups as standard.

Also, how much 'extra' bodyweight are you carrying?

[Armykid93]

U get better at pull ups by doing pull ups. When I started I could only do 3. Then it increased pretty fast from there. If your gym has an assisted pull up machine you can use.that for more reps.

Agree

[gearbox]

The extra body weight is a good question.

[RugbyKid]

A trick that worked for me when I couldn't do them was, try to do weighted pullups! After a couple of attempted sets with additionl weight and then trying bodyweight pullups they were much easier. Then just practice. Get your lifting buddy to assist on a couple of reps too. Before long you'll be doing weighted pullups as standard.

Also, how much 'extra' bodyweight are you carrying?

I'll have to I've that a shot, I never considered doing weighted when I could barely do normal. But if you say it worked for you it doesn't hurt to try. And do you mean "extra" weight as in bf?

[oatmeal69]

I might catch some flack for this, but the "Kipping" Pull-Up really helped me get started. I still do them with my back routine.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-cTAJnIGm6c

[Noles12]

How big are you?

When i first started doing pulllups i culd barely do any. I started using them as the start to my back workout. After a little while i could do 3 sets of 12 or so. It just went up from there. Even at 280 could do 12-15 with full ROM. Back down to 235 and i can easily do more than before. I think the two biggest issues is your body adjusting to the motion and size

[Noles12]

I would never personally do kipping pullups. THey may help in adding reps but i feel they are very risky when it comes to injury and does not focus on the target muscles. I feel that it would really compromise form when trying to go back to dead hang pullups.

[RugbyKid]

How big are you?

I'm 17yo 5'11" and 176. I'm not sure of my body fat, but I wouldn't say it's too high at all. I'm working on getting that figured out

[Noles12]

I'm 17yo 5'11" and 176. I'm not sure of my body fat, but I wouldn't say it's too high at all. I'm working on getting that figured out

First off you are too young to be a member here.

On to the issue it just sounds like a lack of strength when it comes to the motion and im sure in time it will increase. Start low and work your way up.

[RugbyKid]

First off you are too young to be a member here.

On to the issue it just sounds like a lack of strength when it comes to the motion and im sure in time it will increase. Start low and work your way up.

Do you agree with trying the weighted pull ups?

And I'm only here for nutrition and lifting routines, no interest in supplements

[Times Roman]

when i was a kid and 60 lbs, i was the pull up king in our elementary school at something like 25 or 30 (i was skinny and built like hemp rope)

now at 220, they get pretty tough

....just stating the obvious

[Noles12]

I feel that you will be better off going with standard bodyweight pullups. I dont see much benefit from only being able to do 1 or 2 weighted ones

[RugbyKid]

I'll stick to that then, it didn't make much sense to do more weight if I can hardly do my own. I appreciate the help

[Noles12]

I'll stick to that then, it didn't make much sense to do more weight if I can hardly do my own. I appreciate the help

Work your way up and if anything use a spotter for a few forced reps or even an assisted machine. What other lifts are you doing for your back?

[redz]

It's a weak spot for me too, I can barely do them I`m bulked up to 270lbs right now though lol.

[oatmeal69]

they are very risky when it comes to injury and does not focus on the target muscles.

There is no additional risk of injury if you do them correctly. My Lats blew up doing them.

[RugbyKid]

Work your way up and if anything use a spotter for a few forced reps or even an assisted machine. What other lifts are you doing for your back?

Usually start with pull ups, then to lat pull downs, T-bar pick up, and rows. Will sometimes finish with chin ups if doing bi's the same day

[Noles12]

There is no additional risk of injury if you do them correctly. My Lats blew up doing them.

With this method there is a much greater risk for rotator cuff injuries. An explosive rolling motion is not the best thing for your shoulders. It would take a strong shoulder joint in order to avoid injury which not everyone has. These are good for an explosive compound motion and you may have notice an increase in the size of your lats but they are not as target muscle specific

[Noles12]

I see kipping pullups the same way i see bouncing the bar off of your chest. Sure you can do more weight (or in the case of kipping more pullups), and you will build muscle, but it is at the risk for injury to claim higher numbers.

The shoulder is externally rotated and opened while reaching the bottom. In a standard pullup this occurs as well but it is controlled and slow. The explosiveness during this opening of the joint can easily tear the small muscles (rotator cuff) and cartilage supporting this joint.

Even with "proper form" you are still putting tons of strain on the shoulders

[gearbox]

I wouldnt do kipping either.for injury reasons also.

[Back In Black]

I feel that you will be better off going with standard bodyweight pullups. I dont see much benefit from only being able to do 1 or 2 weighted ones

When I was doing it this way, I'd do 2 sets with additional weight. I may not even get 2 reps on this set. Then the 3rd, 4th sets I'd do bodyweight, they would seem soooo much easier than the weighted and sooo much easier than jumping straight into bw pullups. So the weighted sets were more 'warm ups' than anything else.

[Noles12]

When I was doing it this way, I'd do 2 sets with additional weight. I may not even get 2 reps on this set. Then the 3rd, 4th sets I'd do bodyweight, they would seem soooo much easier than the weighted and sooo much easier than jumping straight into bw pullups. So the weighted sets were more 'warm ups' than anything else.

I feel this can be beneficial only if you can do reps with weight. If you can only get 1 or two without weight then you will pretty much just hang from the bar with weight. Therefore i would start with bodyweight and eventually move towards the weighted method as i have used it as well and found it to help. I would do weighted to failure then use bodyweight until failure

[gearbox]

Again pull ups come with practice and dedication. As long as your body weight is in a decent range for your size.

[gearbox]

How big are you?

When i first started doing pulllups i culd barely do any. I started using them as the start to my back workout. After a little while i could do 3 sets of 12 or so. It just went up from there. Even at 280 could do 12-15 with full ROM. Back down to 235 and i can easily do more than before. I think the two biggest issues is your body adjusting to the motion and size

You were and are a beast!!!!

[oatmeal69]

With this method there is a much greater risk for rotator cuff injuries.

Show your data. You have nothing to objectively support this claim. Done correctly, it is a natural and fluid movement, causing no additional strain on shoulders, or anything else.

[Noles12]

Being natural and fluid does not mean there is no increased risk for injury. As i said earlier the opening of the joint places stress on the shoulder joint especially the glenoid labrum and rotator cuff. In a standard pull up the shoulder is opened and stretched as well but from there there is no explosive movement. In a Kipping pullup the fluid motion is still explosive at the bottom. The body is pushed forward, further opening the joint, then explosively pulled back up. THis leads to strain on the extremely small muscles and cartilage made to support the joint.

Having suffered tears in both and studying exercise science and physical therapy, i have a good idea of how the joint works and what leads to tears. As there have been no studies done that i know of on the method, i do not have written evidence showing an increased risk. Can you justify why anything i am saying would be untrue?

[Back In Black]

I feel this can be beneficial only if you can do reps with weight. If you can only get 1 or two without weight then you will pretty much just hang from the bar with weight. Therefore i would start with bodyweight and eventually move towards the weighted method as i have used it as well and found it to help. I would do weighted to failure then use bodyweight until failure

Just saying, worked wonders for me.

[oatmeal69]

Can you justify why anything i am saying would be untrue?

Look at the results. Thousands of cross-fit folks doing them daily - at all levels of fitness and having zero problems. I don't do Crossfit anymore because I don't think it's nearly as valuable for body-sculpting. But they have implemented some new ideas that are in the face of conventional knowledge - and it works.

[Noles12]

Look at the results. Thousands of cross-fit folks doing them daily - at all levels of fitness and having zero problems. I don't do Crossfit anymore because I don't think it's nearly as valuable for body-sculpting. But they have implemented some new ideas that are in the face of conventional knowledge - and it works.

A quick search on google showed many cross fitters complaining of labrum tears due to this method. I do not take that as scientific but saying a ton of people do it so it must be fine doesnt really make it true as well. As i said, if it works and you dont have issues then i would say keep doing them, but they are not something i would ever recommend as i feel there are much safer ways

[gearbox]

Being natural and fluid does not mean there is no increased risk for injury. As i said earlier the opening of the joint places stress on the shoulder joint especially the glenoid labrum and rotator cuff. In a standard pull up the shoulder is opened and stretched as well but from there there is no explosive movement. In a Kipping pullup the fluid motion is still explosive at the bottom. The body is pushed forward, further opening the joint, then explosively pulled back up. THis leads to strain on the extremely small muscles and cartilage made to support the joint.

Having suffered tears in both and studying exercise science and physical therapy, i have a good idea of how the joint works and what leads to tears. As there have been no studies done that i know of on the method, i do not have written evidence showing an increased risk. Can you justify why anything i am saying would be untrue?

Everything you said was true. And I think they were trying to justify that the risky is less if they do them fluid or with good form. This may be true, that the risk is less, but it is still there. and as noles said the little shoulder support muscles get beat up on. causing a tear at some point in time..
Thanks again noles for the detailed write up.

[gearbox]

A quick search on google showed many cross fitters complaining of labrum tears due to this method. I do not take that as scientific but saying a ton of people do it so it must be fine doesnt really make it true as well. As i said, if it works and you dont have issues then i would say keep doing them, but they are not something i would ever recommend as i feel there are much safer ways

Funny you mentioned that. My buddy owns a chiropractic business and has quite a few cross fitters that come in for weekly work on shoulders.

[CmyZFly]

push ups and build up your biceps...

[tcw]

Rugby...start out on the pull-down machine and develop the below listed muscles. Once you are able to pull your body weight down one or two times...then try some Pull-ups. I don't agree that you should start on the pull-up bar....unless you have a developed back and shoulders.

If you lean back on pulldowns, you will develop your rhomboids as well. Mix it up and use a pyramid system to get your weight up.

There's a trick to doing more pull-ups....that is...pull down with your elbows...not your bi's....this forces your Lats to work. Your bi's and rear delt are finishing the movement...but the initial movement muscle is your upper and middle back.

So I've noticed that although my back is not weak, I still can't do pull ups to save my life. A buddy said that just practice and through gaining muscle memory will help over time. Is there anything else, certain exercises, I can do to get better?

[RugbyKid]

Rugby...start out on the pull-down machine and develop the below listed muscles. Once you are able to pull your body weight down one or two times...then try some Pull-ups. I don't agree that you should start on the pull-up bar....unless you have a developed back and shoulders.

If you lean back on pulldowns, you will develop your rhomboids as well. Mix it up and use a pyramid system to get your weight up.

There's a trick to doing more pull-ups....that is...pull down with your elbows...not your bi's....this forces your Lats to work. Your bi's and rear delt are finishing the movement...but the initial movement muscle is your upper and middle back.

tcw that seems like solid advice, as everything else I've been told in this thread. I'm doing back tomorrow so I'll be sure to Pitch in a few of these methods and see what I can do. The lack of strength and practice I'm sure contribute a lot, so over time and with these tips we'll see what happens!

[RugbyKid]

I do really appreciate all the feedback and help you guys share. Couldn't think of a better way to learn than from guys that have been in the same position

[vard]

Day one with my recruiter I could only do one and everyone said to me that you can only add more pull ups by doing pull ups so I came up with a routine. I would do my one pull up. Several assisted. A couple negatives. and so on and so on. There are some out there on the web Im sure. I was told the negatives would help a ton, but anyways Im at 5 now. Not a lot, but I havent been working them as hard as a should.

[KeyMastur]

skimmed over most of the posts, but have you tried using wrist straps ? it'll help you focus more on the back and take most of the bicep out of the pull. are you doing wide grip or narrow ?