Should I be sore

[Dale38]

Hey everyone. I have a stupid question. I am trying really hard to put on muscle size. Been at it for about two years. I keep getting different answers to this question. Should I be sore the following day after a workout? If I am not sore does that mean I did not train hard enough? Thanks

[jesse4466]

I would suggest finding a good trainer and investing in a few sessions and go over that as well as dieting, routines, schedule. Make sure the trainer looks in top shape as well, that way you know they know what they are doing. Being sore is the result of a good workout and tearing the muscle.

[Dale38]

I don't need a trainer. There is YouTube and this forum!

[RangerDanger830]

I don't need a trainer. There is YouTube and this forum!

I am actually inclined to agree with you here. I learned everything myself as all of the information a trainer is going to have is going to be available somewhere online if you look hard enough. I would much rather research and teach myself as opposed to pay someone for their research they have done.

You should be sore. If you are trying to put on size and are giving it maximum effort then you will be very sore in the gym. There are exceptions to this but for the most part soreness should come along with good hard training. If you feel fine the next few days then you probably aren't stressing your muscles enough.

[Lifted1]

your body will stop being sore when it adapts to the training you are doing. you need to up your sets/reps/weight and hit different angles your not used to. full body workouts are awesome for gaining overall mass.

[pushit_05]

No is the answer to your question. Muscle soreness or even delayed onset muscle soreness has nothing to do with the quality of your workout. If your getting the results you want then keep at it. If not find out why and change it up.

[Dale38]

So many different answers to that question.

[Fllifter]

No is the answer to your question. Muscle soreness or even delayed onset muscle soreness has nothing to do with the quality of your workout. If your getting the results you want then keep at it. If not find out why and change it up.

I disagree 100% with that statement. If you're training hard to failure and even beyond you WILL be sore. To the Op I suggest you go read Marcus diary in the lounge from start to finish.

[probuild42]

I think there is truth to all of the above. I say this from my own expercience. I have trained so hard on a leg day for example that I could literally not walk straight out of the gym. Training to failure and beyond. I thought I was going to be so sore the next few days but nothing, no soreness at all!

On the other hand I have trained what I would consider light and been sore for a week and vice versa.

Are body's are constantly changing and going through cycles (not gear) of adaptation, growth, no growth and so on.. My advice is keep training hard, change up your routines from time to time and mix up your diet to keep your mind and body in a state of motion/shock as if your always doing something new..

[pushit_05]

I disagree 100% with that statement. If you're training hard to failure and even beyond you WILL be sore. To the Op I suggest you go read Marcus diary in the lounge from start to finish.

Training to failure and training hard are not the same thing.

[Fllifter]

Training to failure and training hard are not the same thing.

No, but they go hand in hand.

[jesse4466]

Being sore is a sign of tearing the muscle. You tear the muscle with a good workout then grow it bigger upon resting, and eating, which repairs the torn muscle. Then you tear it again when you work hard again (after resting and repairing), and repeat pattern. If you want to look toned you may not be so interested in tearing muscle, if you want to build muscle you will need to learn how to tear muscle and rebuild. Being sore is part of building real muscle mass, hence the reason you need to also take days off, to let muscle repair.

I don't know why this is even debated. It's something learned usually at a very young age.

[Fllifter]

Being sore is a sign of tearing the muscle. You tear the muscle with a good workout then grow it bigger upon resting, and eating, which repairs the torn muscle. Then you tear it again when you work hard again (after resting and repairing), and repeat pattern. If you want to look toned you may not be so interested in tearing muscle, if you want to build muscle you will need to learn how to tear muscle and rebuild. Being sore is part of building real muscle mass, hence the reason you need to also take days off, to let muscle repair.

I don't know why this is even debated. It's something learned usually at a very young age.

Good post ..

[Dale38]

I trying not to get in a debate with everyone. I just had a simple question and I just wanted some knowledge from everyone. I was just concerned about the other day I was doing bis and I lifted heavy to failure. I wasn't sore. So I was concerned that my workout wasn't good enough. I mean I smoked my bis. So thanks guys for all the options.

[pushit_05]

Being sore is a sign of tearing the muscle. You tear the muscle with a good workout then grow it bigger upon resting, and eating, which repairs the torn muscle. Then you tear it again when you work hard again (after resting and repairing), and repeat pattern. If you want to look toned you may not be so interested in tearing muscle, if you want to build muscle you will need to learn how to tear muscle and rebuild. Being sore is part of building real muscle mass, hence the reason you need to also take days off, to let muscle repair.

I don't know why this is even debated. It's something learned usually at a very young age.

This is actually not true at all...To quote Lyle Mcdonald:

Question: You have discussed training frequency on your site and suggest that training a body part twice a week to every 5th day, what would you say if on that fifth day my legs are still sore and I’m generally fatigued, would you recommend waiting an additional day or so? Or just work through the soreness?

Answer: There are actually two different issues that you’re bringing up here which are the general fatigue and the soreness and I want to address them separately.

First, the easier of the two which is soreness. Simply, this doesn’t matter. Soreness appears to mainly be an issue of connective tissue damage more than anything muscularly (despite still being called Delayed Onset Muscle Soreness or DOMS) and there is no problem training through it. Most find that by the time they finish their warm-ups (see Warming Up for the Weight Room Part 1 and Warming Up for the Weight Room Part 2 for detailed information on this), the majority of the soreness is gone and even more find that as they get used to a higher training frequency soreness becomes much less anyhow. They also usually start growing better.

[jesse4466]

Arnold Schwarzenegger wrote a book called Encyclopedia of Modern Bodybuilding. He says in his book: Soreness is the result of minor damage to muscles, ligaments or tendons. A certain amount of soreness is inevitable, a sign that you have really trained intensely. However should you get so sore that it interferes with your training you should ease up for a while. If you are sore you can be certain that the muscles have also been somewhat over stressed. Usually you will not feel soreness until the day after you have trained a particular area. In fact it is often worse two days afterward. Soreness seems to result more from "negative" repetitions (lowering a weight) than from positive repetitions (raising a weight). You will have to wait several days for the injured tissue to heal before you fully recover.

By Arnold Schwarzenegger


* My conclusion is that you should be able to feel the muscles you've worked the day before with some degree of soreness, whether very mild or severe. If you feel nothing, chances are you can do that same muscle again, which means you had a overly light workout. You shouldn't be able to do the same body part day to day. If so, then the workouts are definitely not intense enough and should be increased.

[Dale38]

I just got done killing my chest and tri. My chest is fatigued. See tomorrow if sore. Thanks everyone

[pushit_05]

I have read the book and while Arnold does have some merit Encyclopedia is far from scientific. I would highly recommend you look more into Lyle McDonald who has his doctorate and spends an ungodly amount of time reading/studying/dissecting research papers. Personally I train through soreness if there is any and I know a TON of people who do the same thing with no repercussions. Usually after a few warmup sets your flushed with blood and good to go.

Building muscle is a result of recovery from an increased workload overtime. Whether that workload makes you sore or not is irrelevant.

[Dale38]

So yesterday I thrashed my chest. I use a Bowflex Revolution so I can't tell what would be the weight as in using a "normal" weight system. But I did 4 sets of 3-5 reps on incline, flat bench, incoming flys, flat bench flys. I used as heavy of weight as possible so by the 4th set I could only push the weight to 3 reps. So I went to muscle failure. After I got done my whole chest and tris were exhausted pretty much the entire afternoon and evening. Today I woke up and I am not sore. Could it be that I am on a small amount of Test?

[RangerDanger830]

If you are trying to put on muscle size I can think of many other ways to do so that are better than a Bowflex. We had one in Afghanistan and while I was not disgusted by it, it just is not great for building mass once you have been lifting for a few years.

[Dale38]

How can the bowflex be any different that regular weights? Weight lifting and resistance are pretty much the same thing. Isn't training muscle whether it's free weights and or resistance doing the same thing? I have mentioned in other forums here that I use a bowflex and that is pretty much what I hear. It's all the same. But, it is what it is. I own a bowflex.

[pushit_05]

If a bowflex is what you have then thats what you should use. Be aware that the rods will weaken over time so the amount you are moving will be less.

Using reps in the 5 range or less will result in much less soreness vs 10-20 range for multiple sets. This happens because you are reaching muscle exhaustion much faster resulting in less overall work. For example, if you lift 315 for 5 reps this equals 1575lbs lifted total (315*5). If you drop down to 225 for 10 reps this results in 2250lbs lifted. Now compound this and say you do 4 sets of each:

1575 * 4 = 6300lbs
2250 * 4 = 9000lbs

Recovering from the first is much easier for the body vs the latter. You are actually moving more weight in the first so you will get stronger but since overall workload is decreased muscle size wont increase as fast.

[Dale38]

But isn't the old school way of thinking. Lift heavy to get bigger?

[bigsjunk]

But isn't the old school way of thinking. Lift heavy to get bigger?

That's a generalization not always proven to be correct.
YOu want sore? On your bowflex do this for legs, do the LEX extensions first with a weight yoiu can get 8 reps for but NOT 10, do the squat with the low handles RIGHT after your leg extensions, squat weight should be as much as you can do for 10 reps NORMALLY, this is called a pre-exhaust set, do 5 of these sets and you'll be sore.

[Dale38]

It's not that I want be sore. I just wondered if not being sore was telling me that I am not weight training good enough. Like yesterday my flat and incline bench went up by 5 pounds for 3 sets. 1st was what I maxed out from last week. Could my recovery be faster than what I am used to because of Test? But I am taking a very low dose. For now it's 100mg every two weeks. I know it's not enough, but it's a start. I don't want to give my dr the impression that I want him to make me a bodybuilder. But it is what it is, a start. Ranger danger did you wear a black beret or a tan one? Just wondering ��

[RangerDanger830]

How can the bowflex be any different that regular weights? Weight lifting and resistance are pretty much the same thing. Isn't training muscle whether it's free weights and or resistance doing the same thing? I have mentioned in other forums here that I use a bowflex and that is pretty much what I hear. It's all the same. But, it is what it is. I own a bowflex.

There isn't much of a difference except I can't load 350lbs onto the cables and do a chest press. I also can't do many other exercises with the amount of weight I need unless I end up repping out 30 reps per set. It just doesn't fit my lift style.

[RangerDanger830]

It's not that I want be sore. I just wondered if not being sore was telling me that I am not weight training good enough. Like yesterday my flat and incline bench went up by 5 pounds for 3 sets. 1st was what I maxed out from last week. Could my recovery be faster than what I am used to because of Test? But I am taking a very low dose. For now it's 100mg every two weeks. I know it's not enough, but it's a start. I don't want to give my dr the impression that I want him to make me a bodybuilder. But it is what it is, a start. Ranger danger did you wear a black beret or a tan one? Just wondering ��

Well after I graduated Basic and AIT I was sent to Italy in the 173rd for 2 years where I wore a maroon beret. I then PCS'd to a tradoc assignment on Ft Benning and my old BN CMDR from Italy was the new BC in 3-75 at Benning so he told me if I went to ranger school right away and made it I could have a spot in his unit.

I graduated from class 03-09 in March of 2009 and went straight to B. Co. 3-75. I stayed there for three years then randomly came down on orders to Korea. Ranger branch couldnt override the orders because they said they were in dire need of NCOs. This turned out to be true as I was an E-6 acting as a 1SG.

So I wore my Tan beret for a few years then went to Korea but around that time we went to PCs full time.

[pushit_05]

But isn't the old school way of thinking. Lift heavy to get bigger?

Kind of just not in the way your thinking. Looking back at my example 9000lbs is more weight than 6300lbs. The goal in bodybuilding is to make this total workload as large as possible on a weekly, monthly, yearly basis. In that sense you would be lifting heavier.

[shires90]

To be honest building muscle is a fairly simple concept, you create micro tears in the muscle which when your body has everything it needs will repair slightly overcompensating and making the muscle slightly larger. If you create tears in your muscle its obviously going to be sore just like tearing any other part of your body. In my experience its usually slightly sore the day after working out but worst 2 days after a workout. Its a sensation like the muscle is bruised hurts to use and touch.

[Dale38]

Nobody is answering the Test question though. RangerDanger---HOOAH

[pushit_05]

No its not because of the test. 100mg every two weeks is really low thats roughly 7mg a day which puts you in the low-normal range for someone who is natural.

[SEOINAGE]

You don't need to be sore to make progress........

You might get sore from time to time, but being more sore from one training session vs the other doesn't mean the more sore session will produce better results.

As for the test, if he was severely hypo gonadal and is now normal it will have a significant impact on how he feels.

I would however suggest lifting with free weights, and getting some strength progress with lifts like bench/squat/deadlift. It will help you in the long run with hypertrophy, without going into a big explanation about it, I'm just leaving it there.

[Dale38]

Thanks everyone for the discussion. My dr should raise the dose and frequency in two weeks. Damn, now what is there to talk about.