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Thread: I know I'm going old school here but why??

  1. #1
    jitzer is offline New Member
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    I know I'm going old school here but why??

    I'm going to try to keep my questions as short and sweet as possible. I'm sure many of us here are familiar with "Arnold's Encyclopedia of Modern Bodybuilding". Now I've been browsing this site for some time now to see if anyone else asked these questions and I still haven't found any threads. In Arnold's recommendation, he recommends a beginner to (and I won't go into all the detail b/c like I said, I'm sure some of you guys and girls are most likely familiar with his training plans in the Encyclopedia). In the Encyclopedia, he recommends beginner's train twice each body part twice with most major muscle groups getting in 4 sets of 8-12 reps for upper body and 12-16 reps each set for lower body exercises a week and after 6mo.'s to 2yrs. he advises training each body part the same way except upping it to 3 x's week. So 5 days on, 1 day off for even the novice bodybuilder. I'm not even going to summarize his recommended routine for advanced bodybuilders or competitors. These days most trainers advise me not to train a body part more than once or max twice a week. Still, he was a 7 time Mr. Olympia winner so he must have been doing something right. So, my questions are, was he able to train like that and RECOVER so quickly bc of the type of gear he was on or good genetics of both. Also, does anyone know if that is how everyone trained back then or a very gifted few. Third, I'm 35yrs and just getting back in the gym. Wanna shred pounds and put on lean mass as quick as possible like everybody else in the world. These days is one body part a wk the most effective way to train for the average man or does anyone still follow Arnold's older ways of training. I would think it would lead to overtraining. Any info would be greatly appreciated, especially how was Arnold able to train and recover on those workout plans and would anyone recommend training one body part a wk or multiple times a wk. Just started Test Cyp 400mg/wk. Thanks. All responses welcome.

  2. #2
    Khazima's Avatar
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    Arnold was so far ahead of his time it's not even funny, i'm honestly shocked that his recommendations are on par with my own, i would've expected a much more typical bro split from the original bro himself. Training frequency is one of the best ways to get overall volume, volume is the key driver to hypertrophy, therefore higher frequency = more hypertrophy. People can dispute it all day but it just doesn't make sense to argue that once a week training splits are superior.

    A quote from i think Dr. Zurdos - PhD in strength and conditioning programming "If someone put a gun to your head and said you had to put 100lb on your squat in 12 weeks, would you squat once a week?" instinctively the answer is no, but people try to claim it's optimal anyway.

    Also, there is a training response that induces adaptation with each set we do, this training response diminishes with the more volume you do in a single workout, so say you get a 100% response from your first set, you'll get an 80% response from the next, then 60% then 40%, if you come back and hit it again in a few days when the muscle has recovered, you get the 100% response again. But if you wait a week, and plan on getting the same amount of volume in (remember volume = hypertrophy) then you get say a 280% response from these 4 sets once per week, or do two of them twice per week and you get a 360% response. This is just random numbers, but you get my point.

    On a side note, i'm not arguing that people don't get great results on single body part splits/1x per week splits, but there's a big difference between what 'works' (almost anything 'works') and what's optimal.

    Lastly i'd recommend watching 'biolayne' on youtube, he has a lot of really useful videos on this type of stuff citating studies and articles that are up to date and valid.
    Last edited by Khazima; 05-01-2015 at 06:06 PM.

  3. #3
    kapper's Avatar
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    [QUOTE="Khazima"]Arnold was so far ahead of his time it's not even funny, i'm honestly shocked that his recommendations are on par with my own



    Hahahah thats a pretty big call from you mate hahahaha

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    Buster Brown's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khazima
    Arnold was so far ahead of his time it's not even funny, i'm honestly shocked that his recommendations are on par with my own, i would've expected a much more typical bro split from the original bro himself. Training frequency is one of the best ways to get overall volume, volume is the key driver to hypertrophy, therefore higher frequency = more hypertrophy. People can dispute it all day but it just doesn't make sense to argue that once a week training splits are superior. A quote from i think Dr. Zurdos - PhD in strength and conditioning programming "If someone put a gun to your head and said you had to put 100lb on your squat in 12 weeks, would you squat once a week?" instinctively the answer is no, but people try to claim it's optimal anyway. Also, there is a training response that induces adaptation with each set we do, this training response diminishes with the more volume you do in a single workout, so say you get a 100% response from your first set, you'll get an 80% response from the next, then 60% then 40%, if you come back and hit it again in a few days when the muscle has recovered, you get the 100% response again. But if you wait a week, and plan on getting the same amount of volume in (remember volume = hypertrophy) then you get say a 280% response from these 4 sets once per week, or do two of them twice per week and you get a 360% response. This is just random numbers, but you get my point. On a side note, i'm not arguing that people don't get great results on single body part splits/1x per week splits, but there's a big difference between what 'works' (almost anything 'works') and what's optimal. Lastly i'd recommend watching 'biolayne' on youtube, he has a lot of really useful videos on this type of stuff citating studies and articles that are up to date and valid.
    Glad to see Arnie and you think the same way.
    Last edited by Buster Brown; 05-02-2015 at 06:07 AM.

  5. #5
    Khazima's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kapper View Post
    Hahahah thats a pretty big call from you mate hahahaha
    Quote Originally Posted by Buster Brown View Post
    Glad to see Arnie and you think the same way.
    Lmao that's all anyone took from that? I'm just genuinely surprised he wasn't running a typical bro-split.

  6. #6
    Buster Brown's Avatar
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    I am sure he tried a number of things. This is word of mouth but someone I know actually saw him train in the 70's and there comment was that he was a workhorse.....set after set after set. The guy had great genetics and the volume paid dividends for him. Still pound for pound my fav!

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    Most of the routines I've read of Arnold's were insane volume. I'd do a 5 on 1 off split running gear, but I stick to 72 hours of rest before training the same muscle again. So twice in a week doesn't seem so horrible to me. Some people just have genetics to recover better Arnold being one of them.

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    Buster Brown's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scotty51312
    Most of the routines I've read of Arnold's were insane volume. I'd do a 5 on 1 off split running gear, but I stick to 72 hours of rest before training the same muscle again. So twice in a week doesn't seem so horrible to me. Some people just have genetics to recover better Arnold being one of them.
    This is true.....for me I do well big muscles once a week and small ones twice a week @ 5'9" 215 lbs.

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    kapper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khazima
    Lmao that's all anyone took from that? I'm just genuinely surprised he wasn't running a typical bro-split.
    I just found it funny how u worded it mate..

    Was arnold ahead of the game or is the game so basic that it hasnt had need for change????

    U spoke well before mate no disrespect with my comments more just a laugh. Arnie is a legend and u give advice like his cause its well known

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    Player1 is offline Junior Member
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    I'm intrigued by this. I always found that for me working the same groups more often led to better results for me, instead of the once or twice a week that most suggest. I recover quickly and loose just as quickly.

    Can I read a copy of this online anywhere?

  11. #11
    Euroholic is offline "ARs Pork Eating Crusader"
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    Arnie would spend hours in the gym morning and night splits. He put in the hard work No wonder he looked like he did!!!!!

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    Buster Brown's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Player1
    I'm intrigued by this. I always found that for me working the same groups more often led to better results for me, instead of the once or twice a week that most suggest. I recover quickly and loose just as quickly. Can I read a copy of this online anywhere?
    If you loose just as quickly perhaps it's more diet related. I have found that the bigger the muscle group the longer it takes to recover because there's more of it. If you are extremely light 150 lbs say then your muscles aren't as big as a guy same height weighing 220 so the smaller guy could train everything twice and make gains (of course even the lighter guy at some point needs to train at maintenance to give his body a break).

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    Joco71 is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buster Brown View Post
    I am sure he tried a number of things. This is word of mouth but someone I know actually saw him train in the 70's and there comment was that he was a workhorse.....set after set after set. The guy had great genetics and the volume paid dividends for him. Still pound for pound my fav!
    Me too BB!!

  14. #14
    Player1 is offline Junior Member
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    Yeah It's definitely diet related. After my surgeries I couldn't eat at all and lost rather quickly. I understand about overall muscle mass affecting recovery time. Big muscle groups stay sore! (as I do a potty flop typing this)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buster Brown View Post
    If you loose just as quickly perhaps it's more diet related. I have found that the bigger the muscle group the longer it takes to recover because there's more of it. If you are extremely light 150 lbs say then your muscles aren't as big as a guy same height weighing 220 so the smaller guy could train everything twice and make gains (of course even the lighter guy at some point needs to train at maintenance to give his body a break).
    the body tried to adapt and I fine 1-2 x a week causes more shock and are best, atleast for bigger muscles. so I agree withy ou

  16. #16
    jgd
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    Does anyone know what gear he was actually on? If your on a few different compounds wouldnt this further reduce rest time needed compared to just test and 10 fold compared to naturally? but what was he on? I read a few different things, but, he was ****ing awsome

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    redleg277 is offline New Member
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    Good response. I like that people actually take the time to read up on the latest and greatest in training. I got a buddy of mine who knows Dr. Zurdos and says the guy is pretty doggone smart. Hence the PhD. Anyway, good response.
    Khazima likes this.

  18. #18
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    Sometimes the old is best for a reason.

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    Buster Brown's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by solesrch
    Sometimes the old is best for a reason.
    It is because it's tried and true. The same principles that work today were developed in the the 60's......nothing new under the sun!

  20. #20
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    I train one body part per week, always have. I do construction all day, train heavy, and just don't recover in 3 days enough to train again. I am in my early 40's, 6'6" 270 and that kind of twice a week volume is too much for me. I typically do 5-6 exercises of 3-4 sets, so I get a bit of volume and most of it is pretty heavy with moderately high reps. Each person will respond differently to types of training, the trick is to find what works best and give it your all. If I was getting paid to train and didn't have to work, maybe I could do twice a weeks, but I am tired enough from this split, can't imagine doubling it.

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    Buster Brown's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zempey
    I train one body part per week, always have. I do construction all day, train heavy, and just don't recover in 3 days enough to train again. I am in my early 40's, 6'6" 270 and that kind of twice a week volume is too much for me. I typically do 5-6 exercises of 3-4 sets, so I get a bit of volume and most of it is pretty heavy with moderately high reps. Each person will respond differently to types of training, the trick is to find what works best and give it your all. If I was getting paid to train and didn't have to work, maybe I could do twice a weeks, but I am tired enough from this split, can't imagine doubling it.
    Exactly.......I think a lot of guys get too caught up in some of these elaborate workout routines and make it way more complex then it actually is.

  22. #22
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    People do tend to over think this sport, if you are not an elite body builder and just a regular meat head like me, then keep it simple, do what keeps it interesting and keeps you coming back day after day. If you stress about all the little things that don't matter and continuously change things up trying to find the magic routine, you will most likely never get the gains you are after and get discouraged and quit. I like to do heavy basic lifts, if it hurts, I don't do it, I am too old for ego training, though I do catch myself from time to time still doing it a bit.

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