Bro split vs PPL just more of the same?

[JuliusPleaser]

I've done both...

I've done Dorian HIT only going 4x a week, killing myself, and I have done a PPL program with a heavy upper, heavy lower, off then PPL for the last 3 days of the week for 5 days, and I am currently doing PPL 6 days in a row with one rest day.

The biggest I ever was was with Dorian's HIT training. Doing that, there was no way I could return to train again that same week. However, recently, I've been doing my 6 days of PPL and training even when a bit sore. Apparently, being sore does not indicate anything other than you are sore, and if you are not injuried, you could train that part again, but obviously not coming close to the intensity or failure I did with Dorian. So the question then came to me...

We all know about the 72 hours of protein synthesis after hitting a group, thus we SHOULD repeat it again, but if you create MORE or the same damage in one session as you would in two, then what does it really matter?

In other words, if I do 20 sets of chest Monday and annihilate it to death (level 10 destruction), and it can't fully recover in 72 hours, but when I do recover, it puts more/same of the tissue it would have if I did two level 5 damage workouts, then isn't this all an illusion?

[JuliusPleaser]

bump

[The Deadlifting Dog]

I am a powerlifter so take this for what it is worth but...

I personally think muscles can be hit several times a week.
I think you are better off constantly keeping the msucles under some sort of duress.
Then after 4-10 weeks of this take an easy week to fully recover.

Many powerlifters will bench and squat 2-3 times a week and pull 1-2 times.

But to clarify... if you hit 20 intensive sets of chest once a week...
I think you are far better off hitting 6-7 instensive sets 3 times a week.

There as no way on your 20 sets in a day workout that sets 12 thru 20 are nearly as intensive as the first sets.
But when doing 6-7 intensive sets in a day, every set can be intensive.
Therefore your average instensity per set will be higher in the multiday split.

Also, I believe that the bulk of the healing/growing comes form the first couple of days after a workout.
So even if you need 6-7 days to fully heal, you may be 80% healed up in 2 days.
Hit them again and get that recovery process started back up.

[JuliusPleaser]

Found a pic of me doing both programs...



left was PPL while carb cycling, 5 days a week hitting all muscles twice.

Right was HIT, no dieting, Dorian's split, 4x a week.

[JuliusPleaser]

anyone?

[Charlie67]

You're right, "if you create MORE or the same damage in one session as you would in two, then what does it really matter?", I don't think it does.

Putting aside all the "we're all different blah, blah, blah" disclaimers. The only methodology I tend to really believe in any more is being consistent over time with measurable progress towards your goals. Yes, there are some truly aweful programs out there, but for most of us, the type of workout is less important then doing it long enough in a measurably progressive way, because I think most things work if you "work" it. It really is that simple**.

Another irritating disclaimer: "For me personally".... It seems that ANY reasonable program works if you do it long enough with the right intention and work hard enough. If 20 sets in one session gets you where you want to go, do that. If its 10 sets, 2 times a week, do that. I generally think people get so caught up in the 1% details, they lose focus on the 99% work part. Even with a shitty program, if you stay healthy, you can grow.

Pick a general outline that works for you and keeps you healthy, and do that. You can vary the sets and exercise choices if your bored, but find an outline, and run with it until you can no longer measure progress. Then change. I think people tend to jump from program to program so fast, they may be missing something helpful.

If you're curious... my basic template is this. I've been doing it for about 5 years, changing exercises anywhere from daily to every 12-15 weeks.

Monday: Heavy Chest / high-rep Shoulders
Tues: Heavy Arms / high-rep Back
Wed: Heavy Legs / high-rep chest
Thurs: Heavy Shoulders / high-rep arms
Friday: Heavy Back / high-rep legs

"Heavy" for me is NOT the same as "Heavy" for some of the big mo-fo's around here... I'm tiny at 6'2, 250lbs with a bit of a belly... by heavy I mean 10-12 reps, and on high-rep work, its 20-25 reps.

Cheers,
Charlie

**Yes, yes, yes... we could argue about "ideal" programs versus "ok" programs versus "good enough" programs versus "complete crap" programs. For most of us, I don't think arguing about 4 sets versus 5 is all that relevant if your first 3 are good working sets. If you're jacked and super lean, and in the 99% awesome club, you've already figured it out and probably not listening to us anyway.

[JuliusPleaser]

You're right, "if you create MORE or the same damage in one session as you would in two, then what does it really matter?", I don't think it does.

Putting aside all the "we're all different blah, blah, blah" disclaimers. The only methodology I tend to really believe in any more is being consistent over time with measurable progress towards your goals. Yes, there are some truly aweful programs out there, but for most of us, the type of workout is less important then doing it long enough in a measurably progressive way, because I think most things work if you "work" it. It really is that simple**.

Another irritating disclaimer: "For me personally".... It seems that ANY reasonable program works if you do it long enough with the right intention and work hard enough. If 20 sets in one session gets you where you want to go, do that. If its 10 sets, 2 times a week, do that. I generally think people get so caught up in the 1% details, they lose focus on the 99% work part. Even with a shitty program, if you stay healthy, you can grow.

Pick a general outline that works for you and keeps you healthy, and do that. You can vary the sets and exercise choices if your bored, but find an outline, and run with it until you can no longer measure progress. Then change. I think people tend to jump from program to program so fast, they may be missing something helpful.

If you're curious... my basic template is this. I've been doing it for about 5 years, changing exercises anywhere from daily to every 12-15 weeks.

Monday: Heavy Chest / high-rep Shoulders
Tues: Heavy Arms / high-rep Back
Wed: Heavy Legs / high-rep chest
Thurs: Heavy Shoulders / high-rep arms
Friday: Heavy Back / high-rep legs

"Heavy" for me is NOT the same as "Heavy" for some of the big mo-fo's around here... I'm tiny at 6'2, 250lbs with a bit of a belly... by heavy I mean 10-12 reps, and on high-rep work, its 20-25 reps.

Cheers,
Charlie

**Yes, yes, yes... we could argue about "ideal" programs versus "ok" programs versus "good enough" programs versus "complete crap" programs. For most of us, I don't think arguing about 4 sets versus 5 is all that relevant if your first 3 are good working sets. If you're jacked and super lean, and in the 99% awesome club, you've already figured it out and probably not listening to us anyway.

Interesting split.

I did one which was Heavy upper, heavy lower, off, push, pull, legs... off off.