So how many believe in God?

**spywizard** · 01-13-2004, 10:54 AM

Last post on this subject...

Everyone has opinions.... you.........me ........... the next guy... and they usually stink............

Peace out.........

Originally Posted by LuvMyRoids

Taking a few philosophy classes I have read a lot of interesting views, statements, and arguments of many philosophers. All point either way. IMO I lean towards no God. Religion was created to control the people and to explain the unexplainable.

There are two good philosophers come to mind that give very good arguments to and for the existence of God. If anyone knows of these two then it makes for good argument to cite them both.

Thomas Aquanis probably was the greatest philosopher to support the existence of God. He states five reasons to the existence of a God. "Proving God's Existence from Experience" is the sum. His first and main reason is the argument of motion. Basically someone had to start motion somewhere. Cause and effect theory.

Then there are several reasons why god does not exist.

1. The theodicé problem: If the evil in the world is intended by god he is not good. If it violates his intentions he is not almighty. God can't be both almighty and good.

2. The ontological evidence

3. The meaning of the word existence: God is defined to be infinite, in which case it is not possible for there to be anything other than god because "infinite" is all-inclusive. But if there is nothing other than god then either god cannot be said to exist for the reason just explained, or god is the known world, in which case, by definition, god is not a god.

4. William of Ockham (Ockham's razor): If we are to investigate the world and build our views of life from the world, we cannot assume a god. Because adding god as an explanation leaves as many, if not more questions than it explains, god has to be removed with Ockham's razor if we are serious in investigating the world.

Some things are impossible to do: if omnipotence is a relative quality there is no way to tell omnipotence from non-omnipotence. For omnipotence to be a valid expression it must be absolute, but we have no objective criteria to measure omnipotence so the word itself is useless.

Omnipotence is impossible due to paradoxes: God is tied by faith, he has no free will. If god has no free will god is not omnipotent. Another way to put it is that to be able to make plans and decisions one must act over time. If god stands above time he can not do that and has no free will.

The void creator: If everything has a source and god is that source, then god must have existed without it before he created it. So if god created time and space, he must live outside of time and space. Thus he is non-existent. If all life must come from something and that is god, god is not alive and hence non-existent. If moral must come from god, god lacks moral. If logic comes from god, god is illogic. If nature comes from god, god is unnatural. If existence comes from god, god is non-existent. If god is the cause of everything, god is void.

There is a philosopher that stated 5 reasons to the non-existence of God. I cant find him in my notes. If anyone can quote him please.

http://hope.homedns.org/archives/000140.html

**TheMudMan** · 01-13-2004, 11:03 AM

I don't know what I belive in anymore. I'm Catholic but only because my parents forced me to be. Their beliefs are screwed up........ birth control for one....... instaed of allowing it they would rather allow 3rd world countries to reproduce and become poorer.

**LuvMuhRoids** · 01-13-2004, 11:09 AM

LOL...Im not exactly understanding what you mean here. You mean no one has a good answer?

Originally Posted by spywizard

Last post on this subject...

Everyone has opinions.... you.........me ........... the next guy... and they usually stink............

Peace out.........

**spywizard** · 01-13-2004, 11:20 AM

Well, i speak with alot of people.. college kids, preachers, want to be preachers.. teachers.......... and what not.. this forum is not good for that..

the outcome is not to get others to think the way i do.. but to discuss, to learn, to share, and to grow in knowledge and understanding.. Dealing in facts... the problem is there is no answers without faith.. so basically it comes down to that.. if faith is not something you have.. that's cool.. belief is not somehthing you can have without it.. some have faith like a little child.. others have faith through understanding..

this is not judging.. it simply helps to answer the one unanswerable question..

Why are we here.............................................. .................................................. ...............

Originally Posted by LuvMyRoids

LOL...Im not exactly understanding what you mean here. You mean no one has a good answer?

**Juggernaut** · 01-13-2004, 11:26 AM

I believe.............that's it. I'd love to argue my point however I'm far to stupid to even try and my limited education wouldn't allow it.

**cascade** · 01-13-2004, 11:35 AM

/Do you believe in the sun coming up in the morning?? of course you do.. you have seen it every day.. but you might not know of the reaction that takes place for that to occure.. you just believe.../[QUOTE] (spywizard)

The sun is a mass of incondessent gas, a gigantic nucular furnace. Where Hydrogen is built into Helium at a tempature of millions of dagrees.
Found that one a few years back, it's the Sun Song.

Do you see God every morning? Does God look like the God from the cartoon South Park?
Sorry I just get a kick out of think topic.

**Dude-Man** · 01-13-2004, 11:41 AM

I believe in God. I am doubtful that the words of the bible are accurate due to the fact that they were not written by God, and as a result I feel that it is more a code of ethics than a set of directions to heaven. My main reason for believing is the unimaginable amount of coincidence surrounding our creation, and the events in my own life that have lead me to where I am today. Not to mention the simple fact that we still don't know where the matter and energy in the universe came from.

**cascade** · 01-13-2004, 11:43 AM

Originally Posted by spywizard

Well, i speak with alot of people.. college kids, preachers, want to be preachers.. teachers.......... and what not.. this forum is not good for that..

the outcome is not to get others to think the way i do.. but to discuss, to learn, to share, and to grow in knowledge and understanding.. Dealing in facts... the problem is there is no answers without faith.. so basically it comes down to that.. if faith is not something you have.. that's cool.. belief is not somehthing you can have without it.. some have faith like a little child.. others have faith through understanding..

this is not judging.. it simply helps to answer the one unanswerable question..

Why are we here.............................................. .................................................. ...............

Development, growth, transformation, adaptation... Evolution.
I'm just curious... are religious people 100% against the thought that we came from an ape?
And what about my Adam and Eve question?

**Xavier_4446** · 01-13-2004, 11:43 AM

I believe without a doubt that there is a God above us and Satan below us. I find this world to be to complex for all of this just to happen accidently. Take the human body for example. Everyone is different, and function in a way that we can only begin to understand, and your trying to tell me that all this happened by chance? Doubt it highly.

**Red Ketchup** · 01-13-2004, 11:48 AM

Originally Posted by chrisAdams

I feel that it is more a code of ethics than a set of directions to heaven.

BINGO!!!!

That I can certainly accept... and one doesn't have to believe in any gods to see religion as a code of conduct between human beings.

Red

**Dude-Man** · 01-13-2004, 11:58 AM

Originally Posted by LuvMyRoids

7. The void creator: If everything has a source and god is that source, then god must have existed without it before he created it. So if god created time and space, he must live outside of time and space. Thus he is non-existent. If all life must come from something and that is god, god is not alive and hence non-existent. If moral must come from god, god lacks moral. If logic comes from god, god is illogic. If nature comes from god, god is unnatural. If existence comes from god, god is non-existent. If god is the cause of everything, god is void.

Do not agree with this at all. All existing people came from other people. In other words, if people came from people, does that make them (the parents) not people? NO! that is extreemly flawed logic.

**Mr. Death** · 01-13-2004, 12:08 PM

As you can see from the picture of me in my avatar, I enjoy the fiery pits of hell.

**GeoQuadzilla** · 01-13-2004, 12:52 PM

I certainly opened the flood gates with this thread

**spywizard** · 01-13-2004, 02:20 PM

Wow... there must have been a great discovery that i missed out on... the sun is a furnace burning lets see : sun is a mass of incondessent gas, a gigantic nucular furnace "

actually that is a theory....

don't quote theory as fact... accepted or not.. it is still a theory...

The sun comes up... yes.......... i get a kick out of it toooooooo..

[QUOTE=cascade]/Do you believe in the sun coming up in the morning?? of course you do.. you have seen it every day.. but you might not know of the reaction that takes place for that to occure.. you just believe.../

(spywizard)

The sun is a mass of incondessent gas, a gigantic nucular furnace. Where Hydrogen is built into Helium at a tempature of millions of dagrees.
Found that one a few years back, it's the Sun Song.

Do you see God every morning? Does God look like the God from the cartoon South Park?
Sorry I just get a kick out of think topic.

***Mr. Sparkle*** · 01-13-2004, 03:01 PM

spywizard I thought you were a dirty little man, but you have changed my opinion with your insightful views...

If God could be proven, would you want that? That takes away from free will. Then the sacrificial death of Christ would be pointless, its an atonement for our sins. Then it would be a cult. My faith is just that, faith. Believing in something I cant prove, but I know it through and through. Its our right to "choose" God. But I think we are chosen. You know your life sucks with out Christ, least I did. My friends feel that I have it "all together" But I feel that my struggles are more and more all the time. I learn about my self through Gods eyes. Looking at me from a different way. Thus I grow, and learn. You cant judge a whole faith on one instance, all I want you to do is open your eyes....

-MS

**spywizard** · 01-13-2004, 03:14 PM

Dirty old man........... What up with that.......????

nah...........

Thanks..

I can mess around with alot of things, voice alot of opinions.. but there are things i don't mess with..

1. God
2. Family

Everything else really isn't important..

Peace out..

Originally Posted by Mr. Sparkle

spywizard I thought you were a dirty little man, but you have changed my opinion with your insightful views...

If God could be proven, would you want that? That takes away from free will. Then the sacrificial death of Christ would be pointless, its an atonement for our sins. Then it would be a cult. My faith is just that, faith. Believing in something I cant prove, but I know it through and through. Its our right to "choose" God. But I think we are chosen. You know your life sucks with out Christ, least I did. My friends feel that I have it "all together" But I feel that my struggles are more and more all the time. I learn about my self through Gods eyes. Looking at me from a different way. Thus I grow, and learn. You cant judge a whole faith on one instance, all I want you to do is open your eyes....

-MS

**PTbyJason** · 01-13-2004, 03:18 PM

Oh man, I have so many things that I would like to say, but I know I shouldn't. I do want to make one point real quick though. If you believe in God and you are a Christian, please act like a Christian on this thread. Don't push things on people that don't want things pushed on them and don't try to start some argument. Please be a Christian. How you act is your testimony.

I am absolutely 100% positive that God does exist. There is no doubt in my mind and never will be anymore after the things that I have experience just this year (yep, just 12 days).

I won't respond to the individual things that are listed in this thread. I don't want to get into it with anyone and I don't want to make anyone uncomfortable because of my position. Some may feel that i will try to get them banned or who knows what else if they agree with me (if they don't know me very well), so I don't even want anyone to worry about that happening. I'm not out to get anyone just because they disagree with me and never will.

This is the way I look at it all. If I were a nonbeliever, and hypothetically, all of this God stuff is real. Hypothetically how you think and feel about this God guy could determine where you spend eternity. How much time of my life should I spend doing a little bit of research just to prove if I am right or wrong. And if I haven't looked to see if I am right or wrong, why have I not looked already? What do I really have to fear by reading up on all of this God stuff?

I have some very dear friends on this board. I'm not here to push my religion on anyone. I will say that I encourage any of you to read The Case for Christ and The Case for Faith and still tell me that you don't believe in God. This guy was an atheist that wanted to disprove God, and thank God he failed miserably. He is now a Christian.

I promise you that if you want to read either of these books but don't want to "waste money on it", I will personally pay for it myself for you and have it mailed to you. I don't care who you are or if I know you or not. It is that important to me.

My belief in God is more important than any material thing I have. I just want to see others at least take the time to prove that they are right. I did this very thing. I had a belief in God, but I didn't really know why. I guess my parents kind of told me, so I believed my parents therefore I believed in God. A dear friend of mine challenged me on various facts and principles in relation to God. I decided that if I was going to believe in God, I needed proof of his existance. I didn't want just feelings of faith, I wanted physical proof. I dove in to everything I could, but those 2 books really organized it all for me. Once you totally let everything go and put your faith in God, you really do experience God's power. One person on here knows a little bit about the last 12 days of my life this year and knows the things that i have experienced, but I promise once you find God, there will never be a doubt of His existence. Life isn't worth living without God in my life. He's not just something to make me feel good, He is life.

I know I said I wouldn't say much, but I just can't help it. Anyway, please challenge your beliefs. If you are right, what do you have to fear?

***Mr. Sparkle*** · 01-13-2004, 03:24 PM

Originally Posted by PTbyJason

..... Life isn't worth living without God in my life. He's not just something to make me feel good, He is life. .......Anyway, please challenge your beliefs. If you are right, what do you have to fear?

Wow I couldnt agree with that anymore. Jason are you going to share what happed in your life that proved to you again that there is a God? Id really like to know, I feel that It would be encouraging to me

**azstud2** · 01-13-2004, 03:30 PM

Originally Posted by Pheedno

Can you list EVERY scientist in the past 10yrs that specifically set out to disprove gods existence? I find that hard to believe.

The absolute proof of God can never be confirmed or defied, as faith in god is what drives it's existence. So to a member of a church, their faith in itself is proof, where as people such as myself, believe that faith is either dillusional, or misunderstood of the meaning in which god is. If god(as the Christian church see it) was in fact proven, then faith would be obsolete. No need for faith when the proof sits in front of your eyes

faith gets one to turn to jesus,jesus,through the sacrifices the man made while here on earth,through him,is how you get to god.faith is a bit more complicated to explain than some may attempt to sum it up in. you,i,everyone has experienced faith at some point. have you ever just felt you favorite was gonna make that 2 minute comeback in the big game.ever felt you favorite pet that ran away would return and did not want to give up looking? you can call it luck, you can call it hope,or whatever u want..it was faith you had in something at some point,regardless of what degree it was.its opening your heart and your mind,and just believing.a chiristian doesnt need god to walk up and shake our hand to know hes there.faith will always be there,never oblselete,even if "the proof did sit in front of our eyes"whether you associate to god or anything else,we need it for other things besides religion,if youve got it in other aspects of your life,then it really isnt that difficult to begin understanding how it works for people that are christian,catholic,or any other religion. later(:

**BUYLONGTERM** · 01-13-2004, 03:30 PM

Originally Posted by PTbyJason

Oh man, I have so many things that I would like to say, but I know I shouldn't. I do want to make one point real quick though. If you believe in God and you are a Christian, please act like a Christian on this thread. Don't push things on people that don't want things pushed on them and don't try to start some argument. Please be a Christian. How you act is your testimony.

I am absolutely 100% positive that God does exist. There is no doubt in my mind and never will be anymore after the things that I have experience just this year (yep, just 12 days).

I won't respond to the individual things that are listed in this thread. I don't want to get into it with anyone and I don't want to make anyone uncomfortable because of my position. Some may feel that i will try to get them banned or who knows what else if they agree with me (if they don't know me very well), so I don't even want anyone to worry about that happening. I'm not out to get anyone just because they disagree with me and never will.

This is the way I look at it all. If I were a nonbeliever, and hypothetically, all of this God stuff is real. Hypothetically how you think and feel about this God guy could determine where you spend eternity. How much time of my life should I spend doing a little bit of research just to prove if I am right or wrong. And if I haven't looked to see if I am right or wrong, why have I not looked already? What do I really have to fear by reading up on all of this God stuff?

I have some very dear friends on this board. I'm not here to push my religion on anyone. I will say that I encourage any of you to read The Case for Christ and The Case for Faith and still tell me that you don't believe in God. This guy was an atheist that wanted to disprove God, and thank God he failed miserably. He is now a Christian.

I promise you that if you want to read either of these books but don't want to "waste money on it", I will personally pay for it myself for you and have it mailed to you. I don't care who you are or if I know you or not. It is that important to me.

My belief in God is more important than any material thing I have. I just want to see others at least take the time to prove that they are right. I did this very thing. I had a belief in God, but I didn't really know why. I guess my parents kind of told me, so I believed my parents therefore I believed in God. A dear friend of mine challenged me on various facts and principles in relation to God. I decided that if I was going to believe in God, I needed proof of his existance. I didn't want just feelings of faith, I wanted physical proof. I dove in to everything I could, but those 2 books really organized it all for me. Once you totally let everything go and put your faith in God, you really do experience God's power. One person on here knows a little bit about the last 12 days of my life this year and knows the things that i have experienced, but I promise once you find God, there will never be a doubt of His existence. Life isn't worth living without God in my life. He's not just something to make me feel good, He is life.

I know I said I wouldn't say much, but I just can't help it. Anyway, please challenge your beliefs. If you are right, what do you have to fear?

AMEN BRO, AMEN!!!!!! I too can get into a lot of my experiences, but no one would believe me..

***Mr. Sparkle*** · 01-13-2004, 03:31 PM

BLT try me

**PTbyJason** · 01-13-2004, 03:31 PM

Originally Posted by Mr. Sparkle

Wow I couldnt agree with that anymore. Jason are you going to share what happed in your life that proved to you again that there is a God? Id really like to know, I feel that It would be encouraging to me

I can PM you. I have most of it written down at home so that I would never forget any details of my experiences and I wanted to make sure they were as accurate as possible. It will be tomorrow before you get the PM, if that is cool. I need to update my notes at home with details from Sunday anyway, so I'm sure I will remember to bring them up here with me tomorrow. The PM I send you, I want it to be exact so that it can never be questioned by people that I am making anything up.

**daman1** · 01-13-2004, 03:36 PM

I am christian and just found god about 4 years ago. Some crazy things happened to me in a good way that made me believe he was real. I now pray every night. My life has been a heck of a lot better since he becamse a part of it.

**azstud2** · 01-13-2004, 03:36 PM

Originally Posted by cascade

So....you do believe?

Was that all you? or what passage was that?

all me bro,its cool to help others understand things.(:

**markas214** · 01-14-2004, 05:15 PM

I lean toward atheism. Having been present while people were dying, young and old, I have seen nothing to convince me otherwise. I am open to the possibility of a higher power but not as defined by any religion. Jesus Christ was a man of extreme peace, love and forgiveness. I see none of those qualities in the so-called Christian religions of today. His portrayed God as a loving God, a father. This is a huge contrast to the teachings of his time and written in th Old Testament of a vengeful and punishing God. The message of Christ has been so distorted that I will never describe myself as Christian but as a believer in the truth in the teachings of Jesus as a man. Those who preach the Bible should make a distinction between the teachings of Jesus and the "stories" in the old testament. The messages are contradictory.

**Elliot** · 01-14-2004, 05:22 PM

okay beliveing in god and belive in the church are two total opposites.. the church has been so very corrupt in the past its hard to belive in it... i still have done my baptizm, communion and conformation.. yet i still dont belive in the structure of the church.. jayson if you dont mind can you fwd your pm to me to i would love to hear your expirence..

**hoss827** · 01-14-2004, 06:09 PM

Originally Posted by PTbyJason

I can PM you. I have most of it written down at home so that I would never forget any details of my experiences and I wanted to make sure they were as accurate as possible. It will be tomorrow before you get the PM, if that is cool. I need to update my notes at home with details from Sunday anyway, so I'm sure I will remember to bring them up here with me tomorrow. The PM I send you, I want it to be exact so that it can never be questioned by people that I am making anything up.

Jason..I believe in God...I've had my own experiences as well...and i'd love to hear yours. Bro, PM me anytime. If you're willing to tell though...

***Cycleon*** · 01-14-2004, 06:32 PM

I have a question for all of you who do not believe in God - please explain to me why morals are important if there is no God and therefore no final judgement, no afterlife. That is real morality - the desire to do "good" or more specifically - what is "good"

moreover - however would a person who is only promised this life, whose only interest could be the betterment of his/her own experiences while here - how would they ever come to the conclusion that morals were desireable things? other than a ruse to dupe someone else.

***Pheedno*** · 01-14-2004, 06:51 PM

Originally Posted by CYCLEON

I have a question for all of you who do not believe in God - please explain to me why morals are important if there is no God and therefore no final judgement, no afterlife. That is real morality - the desire to do "good" or more specifically - what is "good"

moreover - however would a person who is only promised this life, whose only interest could be the betterment of his/her own experiences while here - how would they ever come to the conclusion that morals were desireable things? other than a ruse to dupe someone else.

Fear of ****ation to enternal hell fire if you dont love your neighbor? Thats morals? I don't think so. Morality is a human concept, not created by gods word. The bible is not even "gods" word.

The recognition to the difference of right and wrong is the first development to morality, and this is learned far before religion or god is even in a childs vocabulary. Guidence develops morality, in some cases the child is guided by a person, guided by their religion; but this is not always the case, such with me.

**groverman1** · 01-14-2004, 06:55 PM

For one I am a Christian. I was raised Catholic and believe Catholism is the best religion for me. I have many problems with Catholism like other religions. But for one I don't think any one religion is the true way. Secondly, I don't believe I have to confess my sins to a preist, every night I aske for God's forgiveness. Thirdly, I believe in birth control but believe in abortion ONLY if there was rape or incest involved. And lastly I don't really believe in purgatory. Now you can say I am a huge hippocrit but we all are. Hopefully I will someday have a better understanding of evrything. Then again , everything is not meant to be logical. I do not push my religion on anyone. When I die only me, myself and I will deal with my maker.

**ItalianMuscle** · 01-14-2004, 06:59 PM

I'm catholic so I do believe GOD...

***Pheedno*** · 01-14-2004, 07:14 PM

Originally Posted by CYCLEON

why morals are important if there is no God and therefore no final judgement, no afterlife. That is real morality - the desire to do "good" or more specifically - what is "good"

Another point clarify my position on morality.

What makes me maintain my "morals" after I've come to "my" conclusion that their is no eternal consequence when we die?

Simple
Honorabiltiy, Respectability, Integrity. These things are important to myself while I'm here. As well as maintaing them in the eyes of those who knew me once I pass. I practice morality and good will because I want to; because it's rewarding to me to live my life that way. Not because I'm affraid of consequence if I don't.

**mfenske** · 01-14-2004, 07:50 PM

I guess I will chime in here. I have talked at length with a few of my very religious friends about this subject many times and have always had fun having a civil conversation about it. I personally don't believe that there is a god. I don't doubt that a long time ago there was a man named Jesus. I have a few reasons why. First and foremost I want to say that I in no way aim to poke fun, belittle, or insult anyone this is just my PERSONAL feelings. 1. Proof. I think of Homer Simpson when the proof of god is in question. Homer once said something to the effect of "Dear god, if you want me to eat this hot dog give me no sign". Homer ate the hot dog (I can't remember the exact food). 2. This brings me to my second reason. When I tell those that believe that I don't cause I haven't had any proof they tell me I just gotta have faith. In What? They tell me I just have to believe. I'm sorry, but blind faith is a scary way to live life. 3. Afterlife. I look at it like this. Imagine your absolute perfect vacation spot. What if I told you that if you payed homage to me regularly, made a financial contribution regularly, and played by the rules that I set that you for all your living days you would get to live there forever when you die. Would you believe me? 4. Hypocrisy. I think this one is the one that bugs me the most. I have seen many (not saying all) religious folks who preach to everyone to love your neighbor yet turn around and commit heinous acts. How about the church's stand on homosexuals? I just have a hard time following the beliefs of anyone who doesn't follow them themself. Kinda like buying a weight loss video from Sally Struthers. In summation, to those that believe I respect your beliefs and wish you all nothing but the best. To those that don't I wish you the same. Mark

**groverman1** · 01-14-2004, 09:17 PM

Whether it's priest and little boys or reverends and the church memebers wives, it's all messed uo. Everyone sins and everyone des the wrong thing. The great thing about God is that he gave us free will to make our own desicions. If he was such a terrible God he wouldnt give us a choice whether to follow his word or not.

***Cycleon*** · 01-14-2004, 09:31 PM

Originally Posted by Pheedno

Another point clarify my position on morality.

What makes me maintain my "morals" after I've come to "my" conclusion that their is no eternal consequence when we die?

Simple
Honorabiltiy, Respectability, Integrity. These things are important to myself while I'm here. As well as maintaing them in the eyes of those who knew me once I pass. I practice morality and good will because I want to; because it's rewarding to me to live my life that way. Not because I'm affraid of consequence if I don't.

But lets say I dont give a rip about your pathetic morals - I sustain myself by raping and pillaging the weaker and stupid - If I am smart enough at it I can squeeze little beings like you my whole life - all the while being blissfully happy - perhaps it even would bring me a defined pleasure to sadistically rape your mother while tying you to a chair to watch before I kill you too - means we have no "right" to lock people up except as a way of keeping the real predators away from the sheep.

why is it then you feel that Osama bin laden is wrong - I assure you he sleeps well at night for what he has done - his only thought is to avoid capture so that he can do ever greater things within his moral code - exterminating a weak society like ours is completely within his beliefs

if you can murder, manipulate and rob people all of your life without reprocussion in this life and die an old man - there is no need for morality - only strength - for morality is weakness that gets in the way of self interests - you are moral because it makes you "feel" good about yourself? just exactly the weekness that I am talking about - pathetic

now of course most of us dont really act that way because we do believe in a "right" and wrong" but the fact is if there is now objective singularity existing outside of ourselves an our experience, then ALL morals are subjective and therefor all are equally "good" - everyone for themselves, no matter what the cost to others - but no, the real reason that most of you dont believe in God is simple - you do not want Him to be Lord, to subjugate yourself to Him - dont sit there and tell me about some church or stupid people, blah blah - God doesnt seem to require any religion to BE - yet because of your own pride and because you do not wish to change your ways you do not wish to really look to see where He is - It is this way with all of us

even for those of us who know Him, it is not easy to lay our lives down every day - literally, "not my will but thine be done today in me" - and I know I am not there yet simply because to often I am not listening to Him - that doesnt mean He isnt speaking

**spywizard** · 01-14-2004, 10:02 PM

Bump cycleon...

The truth and nothing but..................

Originally Posted by CYCLEON

But lets say I dont give a rip about your pathetic morals - I sustain myself by raping and pillaging the weaker and stupid - If I am smart enough at it I can squeeze little beings like you my whole life - all the while being blissfully happy - perhaps it even would bring me a defined pleasure to sadistically rape your mother while tying you to a chair to watch before I kill you too - means we have no "right" to lock people up except as a way of keeping the real predators away from the sheep.

why is it then you feel that Osama bin laden is wrong - I assure you he sleeps well at night for what he has done - his only thought is to avoid capture so that he can do ever greater things within his moral code - exterminating a weak society like ours is completely within his beliefs

if you can murder, manipulate and rob people all of your life without reprocussion in this life and die an old man - there is no need for morality - only strength - for morality is weakness that gets in the way of self interests - you are moral because it makes you "feel" good about yourself? just exactly the weekness that I am talking about - pathetic

now of course most of us dont really act that way because we do believe in a "right" and wrong" but the fact is if there is now objective singularity existing outside of ourselves an our experience, then ALL morals are subjective and therefor all are equally "good" - everyone for themselves, no matter what the cost to others - but no, the real reason that most of you dont believe in God is simple - you do not want Him to be Lord, to subjugate yourself to Him - dont sit there and tell me about some church or stupid people, blah blah - God doesnt seem to require any religion to BE - yet because of your own pride and because you do not wish to change your ways you do not wish to really look to see where He is - It is this way with all of us

even for those of us who know Him, it is not easy to lay our lives down every day - literally, "not my will but thine be done today in me" - and I know I am not there yet simply because to often I am not listening to Him - that doesnt mean He isnt speaking

**hoss827** · 01-14-2004, 10:19 PM

****....CYCLEON said it all...

**GeoQuadzilla** · 01-14-2004, 10:32 PM

It's really cool how many people responded to this thread considering I thought it may not get looked at seriously... I read some deep thoughts on here from a lot of you... and it's cool to how many people have such a deep rooted faith in God like myself... Very inspirational if you ask me

LORDBLiTZ · 01-14-2004, 10:38 PM

I believe in JC

**PurePower** · 01-14-2004, 10:40 PM

God bless all. I hope to see ALL of you guys and gals in Heaven one day. I also feel great pitty for those who have not found Jesus, for they have no idea what pain and misery awaits them....... Repent, Repent......