Warrior's short cycle feedback

[scriptfactory]

Marcus tries to justify himself, but I don't think he needs to. He has presented a very interesting cycling theory that if anything, presents the simply notion of priming, to better prepare one's self for any cycle.

Not trying to diss this way of cycling but if Marcus doesn't support his ideas then he is, to be quite honest, no better than Ross. Anyone (i.e. Ross) can just make up a way of cycling but without credible evidence to support his ideas it would be a stretch to even call it a theory.

Again, I'm not trying to discredit this way of cycling, we just have to be realistic (and safe) about it all.

[Warrior]

Not trying to diss this way of cycling but if Marcus doesn't support his ideas then he is, to be quite honest, no better than Ross. Anyone (i.e. Ross) can just make up a way of cycling but without credible evidence to support his ideas it would be a stretch to even call it a theory.

Again, I'm not trying to discredit this way of cycling, we just have to be realistic (and safe) about it all.

I here what you are sayin - but I think Marcus has heavily supported this idea. He has spent a lot of time writting and explaining it. If Ross presented something half as detailed and intriguing, I would explore his tactics as well. However...

All I am saying is to not be so quick to dismis this as a possible solution for some - not all - bodybuilding trainees...

And Script, you and I have posted on this board for several years... remember when 8-10 week cycles were the most typical recommendation - anytime someone posted about running over 10 weeks people would reply like, "WHOOA - thats too long!" Maybe we have evolved in the wrong direction - not on longer... perhaps cycles running over 10 weeks is too much for the human body and unreasonable for the endocrine system - these are powerful little hormones. It sounds more pheasible if anything - shave the cycle in half and double up for the shorter duration. Should this be a new trend for the Vets? More cycle logs and feedback would be helpful... unfortunately many of us have to put on the lab coats ourselves...

[tranzit]

dude i wanted to read this post but everything you write is a freakin noval heheh you know your shit and as many cycles as you have done your body will tell you all you need to know.

good luck and keep going warrior you are the man.

[Warrior]

Maybe this has been covered, but what are the effects on cycles in the future? If someone is used to doing the traditional 500mg. per week of test for 12 weeks and now dramatically increases the dose for a short burst cycle, how does that effect the cycles in the future? is 500mg. per week not going to be sufficient enough from now on to see gains?

i've seen people post saying short burst cycles are a great way to change things up in regards to traditional cycling.....but, correct me if im wrong, it sounds like Marcus is saying that the short heavy cycles should be used as a last resort for making gains, or for people who have done like 10+ cycles.

Hope what i'm asking makes sense.....any input is appreciated.

Receptors don't down regulate - if anything they upregulate... but the issue goes much deeper - mapping out your recepetors and finding what the right dose is for you at your current conditioning... thats the dilema.

But here is a famous good arguement from Bill Roberts...

Unfortunately, this claim is used to support all kinds of arguments and bad advice concerning practical steroid usage. Thus, the error is no small one.
We will look at this matter fairly closely in this article. However, in brief the conclusions may be summed up as follows:

• There is no scientific evidence whatsoever that AR downregulation occurs in human muscle, or in any tissue, in response to above normal (supraphysiological) levels of AAS.
• Where AR downregulation in response to AAS has been seen in cell culture, these results do not apply because the downregulation is either not relative to normal androgen levels but to zero androgen, or estrogen may have been the causative factor, or assay methods inaccurate for this purpose were used, or often a combination of these problems make the results inapplicable to the issue of supraphysiological use of androgens by athletes.
• AR upregulation in response to supraphysiological levels of androgen in cell culture has repeatedly been observed in experiments using accurate assay methods and devoid of the above problems.
• AR downregulation in response to AAS does not agree with real world results obtained by bodybuilders, whereas upregulation does agree with real world results. (A neutral position, where levels in human muscle might be thought not to change in response to high levels of androgen, is not disproven however.)
• The "theoretical" arguments advanced by proponents of AR downregulation are invariably without merit.

The belief that androgen receptors downregulate in response to androgen is one of the most unfounded and absurd concepts in bodybuilding.

Read the discussion here.

[Warrior]

dude i wanted to read this post but everything you write is a freakin noval heheh you know your shit and as many cycles as you have done your body will tell you all you need to know.

good luck and keep going warrior you are the man.

Pfft... been awhile since I was on here. Guess my fingers are a little itchy.

[marcus300]

You're using the word "study" to mean:

Anecdote. A study is one thing, and a personal story is another. One belongs in medical journals, the other belongs in a diary.

I believe it's misleading to say you have studies, which are really cycle logs or personal reports. When people ask "do you have a study to support your claim" you're being asked for a medical journal study, not to tell a story about this guy you know.

MyoGenX has never been "studied" in humans, and if I were to claim it has been, then directed the FDA to steroid .com posts (anecdotes) about how well the product works, they'd immediately make me amend those claims.

Hypothetical:


If I tell you that you can take 4,000mgs/week of anabolics, without hurting your overall cholesterol, you'd want proof right? Then what if I said I had a study? And you said lets see the study...and I said "I did it and my cholesterol didn't go over 189"


Would you consider that a study? When we (on this board) say "study" we mean something very specific, and I believe it adds an unwarranted aire of legitimacy to claims if there's a claim of a study proving something, when really its not a study, it's a nice little story about someone who did this thing this time.....in short it's an anecdote.

I believe real-world experience trumps studies all the time, but I don't confuse the two.

You have no studies, you have a bunch of anecdotes...maybe some cycle logs, etc...but no studies. It's important to be clear about this, before this particular discussion develops further.

I never mention the word medical study I stated in one thread study and in another post personal studies, “study” doesn’t belong to medical journals like you have stated, for your attention the explanation of the word study in the Oxford English Dictionary is - 1 The devotion of time and attention to gaining knowledge, 2 a detailed investigation of a subject or situation, 3 piece of work done for practice or as a experiment, there is no mention of the word medical, but come on Anthony this issue is a play on words to try and discredit, mine relates to 2 and 3.

I havent got medical studies, i have reports /cycles from bodybuilders going back yrs and all of them together is one large study of this system, its not medical its real life bodybuilders who conduct their lifestyles as bodybuilders, the medical profession have nothing to do with real life BB's, i have no idea were that word came from within your head butthen again you have mention my studies/cycle log's/reports as Anecodotes, your choice of words really amuses me alot, let me explain,Anecodotes in the Oxford English Dic is a short entertaining story about a real incident or person!!! trust me my studies are not entertaining nor are they a story or any incidents, i can say your further than the truth than anything infact, you have entertained me with your storys today,simple words for you it doesnt matter what your call them or choose to say, you will never change the outcome of the results,
I have been in this game for 18yrs and over time ive accumulated loads of studies/ reports/cycle logs or what ever you would like to call them to back this method up that it works, for me and many other people MEDICAL studies are not worth the paper its written on normally they are done on mice, Aids victims or the average man who as never done any kind of training or ever used any kind of AAS, You an educated man and understand medical studies are worth not as much as real life experiences, real life reports/studies/cycle logs or what ever you want to call them from many Bodybuilders are worth far more than some Medical studies done on the average man or mouse, real life experiences from Bodybuilders who run their life as Bodybuilders is what I take more note of and I don’t care for MEDICAL studies because with every medical study comes another contradicting one,

I will state again this system is used widely in the pro ranks and amateur’s and is not something new, it is here and is used with great success its been around for years even in the Mentzer, Dillet,Yates and Nasser days all have reported this as been a way of cycling for them at some stage, I am a big believer in doing what works and for me short cycling is a part of me building muscle when it suits,

I have nothing to gain infact it was Warrior who told me to post his study/cycle log and if you read it and understand what he did it worked for him also, I don’t have to prove anything am just telling you what works for many, I have nothing to gain I am not selling anything nor do I have some magic pill what does wonders, i have nothing to gain what so ever I don’t have to discredit people to generate more business nor do I want more clients, am just passing information on what ive gathered over the years regarding BB,

I have never mentioned any dosages so were ever you got 4000mgs a wk from heavens knows prob same place as your choice of words regarding BB's reports/cycle logs, the dosages are worked off the individuals cycle history and this way of short cycling can be adapted to any level and in some cases low dose is required, you have to understand the whole process of priming, designing a cycle what works and use dosages to suit, a very intense training program and diet and not to be disrespectful I remember about 2-3 wks ago you posting that you didn’t understand the priming issue or fully understood what I meant so I do find it hard to take anything you say on this issue with any credability because you don’t fully understand or have never have tried it, on the overhand I have read plenty of your work and have practised many things you have said with success, remember we are not always right all the time and we dont know everything about everything, and sometimes we all need to stop,listen and learn!

Also regarding sides effects the body as substantial sides if you are using chemicals for some length of time the body adjust itself and the longer you are on the harder for you to recover, I have found and yet again many state who use this method sides are a lot less using short cycling weather heavy/light or moderate, the body can regenerate itself in a short period of time, if BB’s are using a system what builds muscle tissue and they recover and maintain the gains with good time off then your on the right track, your doing what works for you but if gains are few and far between and maintanance is hard work or you lose all gains, then try something different, find something what works and stick with it,

Warrior's results speaks for itself and if everyone is honest with themselves how much do you gain and keep after cycle? Its impossible to discredit warriors report/cycle log its there in black and white, all I can say is try it for yourself you might just be shocked and to be honest it’s the only way your going to give it any credibility is to try it, if you need any help planning send us a PM if your willing to try it, I will stress again do you have any idea how much muscle you can gain in a short period of time if you open the growth window? Ask any comp guy after show how much he gains if he goes on a cycle and uses this window, if this window is used and you couple this with a cycle what works and compounds and then incorporate this into a very heavy intense training program the gains are hugh and many pro’s use this to spring board themselves into the next phase and that’s just a comp diet just think what it would achieve if your primed properly,

[*Narkissos*]

Not trying to diss this way of cycling but if Marcus doesn't support his ideas then he is, to be quite honest, no better than Ross. Anyone (i.e. Ross) can just make up a way of cycling but without credible evidence to support his ideas it would be a stretch to even call it a theory.

Again, I'm not trying to discredit this way of cycling, we just have to be realistic (and safe) about it all.

By your definition all our ways of cycling; AI-use; SERM-use; and PCTs are similarly unsupported.

Correct me if i'm wrong..but writers take studies based on mice; females; AIDS patients and hypothesize... creating theories which we test for applicability.

Other writers take drug profiles; drug-drug interactions and put foward potential theories on how drugs should be run.

...and poof a theory is born...which the message board blindly follows.

Here now Marcus presents a theory which, apparently, has been real-world tested and it's shot down.

This board is amazing.

Imma wait for the next "what does Ronnie take" thread...

Primo anyone?

[G-Force]

By your definition all our ways of cycling; AI-use; SERM-use; and PCTs are similarly unsupported.

Correct me if i'm wrong..but writers take studies based on mice; females; AIDS patients and hypothesize... creating theories which we test for applicability.

Other writers take drug profiles; drug-drug interactions and put foward potential theories on how drugs should be run.

...and poof a theory is born...which the message board blindly follows.

Here now Marcus presents a theory which, apparently, has been real-world tested and it's shot down.

This board is amazing.

Imma wait for the next "what does Ronnie take" thread...

Primo anyone?

what does ronnie take?

answer: EVERYTHING

[perfectbeast2001]

By your definition all our ways of cycling; AI-use; SERM-use; and PCTs are similarly unsupported.

Correct me if i'm wrong..but writers take studies based on mice; females; AIDS patients and hypothesize... creating theories which we test for applicability.

Other writers take drug profiles; drug-drug interactions and put foward potential theories on how drugs should be run.

...and poof a theory is born...which the message board blindly follows.

Here now Marcus presents a theory which, apparently, has been real-world tested and it's shot down.

This board is amazing.

Imma wait for the next "what does Ronnie take" thread...

Primo anyone?

Couldn't agree more. I am more interested in real world experiences and results than theories from the petri dish. I for one will be putting Marcus' theory to the test after my comp. "Don't knock it till you tried it" as my dear old gran used to say!

[marcus300]

By your definition all our ways of cycling; AI-use; SERM-use; and PCTs are similarly unsupported.

Correct me if i'm wrong..but writers take studies based on mice; females; AIDS patients and hypothesize... creating theories which we test for applicability.

Other writers take drug profiles; drug-drug interactions and put foward potential theories on how drugs should be run.

...and poof a theory is born...which the message board blindly follows.

Here now Marcus presents a theory which, apparently, has been real-world tested and it's shot down.

This board is amazing.

Imma wait for the next "what does Ronnie take" thread...

Primo anyone?

Thankyou Nark and PB for your comments,

[scriptfactory]

By your definition all our ways of cycling; AI-use; SERM-use; and PCTs are similarly unsupported.

Actually the science behind everything we are doing is pretty much supported by medical studies. Long term steroid use has been pretty well documented (even on healthy active males, not just AIDs patients) as have the effects of AIs and SERMs. I was referring more to the effects of heavy steroid use on the endocrine system, not the gains resulting from such use.

BTW, Warrior was running less than 2 grams of Test per week, if I remember correctly, which is a pretty mild dose so this doesn't have anything to do with him or the results of his cycle. I know guys that run more and gain less so... Just was curious about everything.

[marcus300]

Actually the science behind everything we are doing is pretty much supported by medical studies. Long term steroid use has been pretty well documented (even on healthy active males, not just AIDs patients) as have the effects of AIs and SERMs. I was referring more to the effects of heavy steroid use on the endocrine system, not the gains resulting from such use.

BTW, Warrior was running less than 2 grams of Test per week, if I remember correctly, which is a pretty mild dose so this doesn't have anything to do with him or the results of his cycle. I know guys that run more and gain less so... Just was curious about everything.

MEDICAL studies are not worth the paper its written on normally they are done on mice, Aids victims or the average man who as never done any kind of training or ever used any kind of AAS, medical studies are not worth anything like as much as real life experiences by people who conduct their lifes as Bodybuilders , real life reports/studies/cycle logs or what ever you want to call them from many Bodybuilders are worth far more than some Medical studies done on the average man or mouse, I don’t care for MEDICAL studies because with every medical study comes another contradicting one,

Warriors dose was designed for him and him only many other BB's use less and some more its the whole process surround this cycling what makes it work so good, many factors and planning are needed and a understanding of priming,intense training and diet are a must when implementing this type of cycling, i know my previous post was long but its worth reading it may just answer some of your questions and comments you have made.

[AnabolicBoy1981]

I never mention the word medical study I stated in one thread study and in another post personal studies, “study” doesn’t belong to medical journals like you have stated, for your attention the explanation of the word study in the Oxford English Dictionary is - 1 The devotion of time and attention to gaining knowledge, 2 a detailed investigation of a subject or situation, 3 piece of work done for practice or as a experiment, there is no mention of the word medical, but come on Anthony this issue is a play on words to try and discredit, mine relates to 2 and 3.

,

can we please stop with the "this word means that", and "that word means this"? Its not constructive.
Maybe you're right Marcus. Maybe you can conduct your own studies and it can be called a "study".
But, the bigger point here is that when you're on this board and you say the word "study" you have to know all the guys reading that are gonna think you mean a medical study, that's just the way it is. Maybe we shouldnt, but we will. And maybe we should all accept the fact that a "study" can be done outside the medical commmunity, but its not gonna happen. All 5000 members of this board arent gonna change what the word "study" means to them. So if you keep stating you have "studies" its gonna mislead alota ppl.

Now i agree with you alota medical studies are garbage, and in many ways i'd much rather hear a bodybuilders detailed experiance of his cycle. And if you feel like you have to use the word "study" to enhance the legitamacy of your statement, please dont. I'd feel a detailed account from you to hold as much water as the study done by Dr. Bob at the Universisty of Blah blah blah.
Like you said, you have no reason to lie, your not selling stuff, and you been on here quite awhile, so why would you lie? You wouldnt.


Anyway, i may give one of these a whirle.
But, Warriors fat gain seems alittle high. Maybe im wrong. Maybe it was just water. Course he used insulin which i wouldnt and that could be a factor.

[tek.]

the theory does seem to work but ya'll need to stop referring to 10yr old internet interviews and here say/bro knowledge, pauls credentials were questioned by everyone. He was addicted to painkillers, alot of his talk was shit

[evil pepsi]

hmmm, maybe i can make a lab project out of this for the spring semester, and if conducted in a scientific manner, supervised by a pathologist and an md, and posted my results, then people could call it a study.
the thing many people forget is that many medical/scientific principles we hold sacred today were done in primitive conditions. there was no journals for them to post their findings in, nor did they have corporations/drug companies to fund their experiments.
they conducted their experiments in the name of science, not commercial gain. it was to gain knowledge to make the world a better place, and to understand the world around us just a little more. they did what they could, with what they had to work with, and their findings are part of the laws of science today.
yet none of them had a phd, very few had the title of md, and some were not even college educated. does that make their findings any less valid?
if marcus has the results of years of experimentation by several people, along with the compounds they used, how does that not make it a valid study?

[Maldorf]

Truth is there really are not many true "scientific studies" involving AAS out there, maybe none. A true scientific study would be double blind, meaning neither the doctors or the patient would know who was getting the AAS and who was getting the placebo. There are too many factors that can enter into the results really, and then you have the ethical considerations about administering AAS to patients. All we have in this world concerning this matter really is empirical evidence we have gathered from users. Because of this, I would consider the data we have on this subject just as valid as other "studies".

[marcus300]

hmmm, maybe i can make a lab project out of this for the spring semester, and if conducted in a scientific manner, supervised by a pathologist and an md, and posted my results, then people could call it a study.
the thing many people forget is that many medical/scientific principles we hold sacred today were done in primitive conditions. there was no journals for them to post their findings in, nor did they have corporations/drug companies to fund their experiments.
they conducted their experiments in the name of science, not commercial gain. it was to gain knowledge to make the world a better place, and to understand the world around us just a little more. they did what they could, with what they had to work with, and their findings are part of the laws of science today.
yet none of them had a phd, very few had the title of md, and some were not even college educated. does that make their findings any less valid?
if marcus has the results of years of experimentation by several people, along with the compounds they used, how does that not make it a valid study?

exactly, seems to make sense to me and many others.

[marcus300]

Truth is there really are not many true "scientific studies" involving AAS out there, maybe none. A true scientific study would be double blind, meaning neither the doctors or the patient would know who was getting the AAS and who was getting the placebo. There are too many factors that can enter into the results really, and then you have the ethical considerations about administering AAS to patients. All we have in this world concerning this matter really is empirical evidence we have gathered from users. Because of this, I would consider the data we have on this subject just as valid as other "studies".

Good point

[tranzit]

By your definition all our ways of cycling; AI-use; SERM-use; and PCTs are similarly unsupported.

Correct me if i'm wrong..but writers take studies based on mice; females; AIDS patients and hypothesize... creating theories which we test for applicability.

Other writers take drug profiles; drug-drug interactions and put foward potential theories on how drugs should be run.

...and poof a theory is born...which the message board blindly follows.

Here now Marcus presents a theory which, apparently, has been real-world tested and it's shot down.

This board is amazing.

Imma wait for the next "what does Ronnie take" thread...

Primo anyone?

Nark AWSOME reply i try to preach this to people over and over. In the states it is illegal to test a drug on a healthy person that has been deamed dangerous no waiver or anything else can change this. So the US studies are all on sick people and as far as i have seen they have all been done wrong. no pct ect. wrong doses bad diet, terminal patients ect. its a scare tactic. And i have no problem with that becouse its saposed to be aimed at the 18 and younger generation. Problem is you have guys like our wonderfull president who banned every legal form of anything that works. so now you have one choice go without or buy the real deal... i you can get it. i personaly think that certin AAS increase the quality of life in 26 year old and older people but instead of telling the truth they give out a line of bullshit. It angers me when i hear negative feedback in the news or these little documentrys they do where they do everything wrong and make these chemicals look like they are going to turn you into a raging mad man.

I would love to see a proper test done on a group of healthy 26-28 year old men and see them try and explain they lack of side effects and the good these drugs can do if used correctly and PCT is implemented.. sorry about the rant you just cought my attention with part of your post and i wanted to applaud you for telling it like it is.

[G-Force]

Nark AWSOME reply i try to preach this to people over and over. In the states it is illegal to test a drug on a healthy person that has been deamed dangerous no waiver or anything else can change this. So the US studies are all on sick people and as far as i have seen they have all been done wrong. no pct ect. wrong doses bad diet, terminal patients ect. its a scare tactic. And i have no problem with that becouse its saposed to be aimed at the 18 and younger generation. Problem is you have guys like our wonderfull president who banned every legal form of anything that works. so now you have one choice go without or buy the real deal... i you can get it. i personaly think that certin AAS increase the quality of life in 26 year old and older people but instead of telling the truth they give out a line of bullshit. It angers me when i hear negative feedback in the news or these little documentrys they do where they do everything wrong and make these chemicals look like they are going to turn you into a raging mad man.

I would love to see a proper test done on a group of healthy 26-28 year old men and see them try and explain they lack of side effects and the good these drugs can do if used correctly and PCT is implemented.. sorry about the rant you just cought my attention with part of your post and i wanted to applaud you for telling it like it is.

ditto

the amount of miss-information out there is worrying

i have lost count of the amount of stupid questions non educated people ask me about steroids

the most popular one is - "but dont they make your dick shrink?"

sigh

[marcus300]

Nark AWSOME reply i try to preach this to people over and over. In the states it is illegal to test a drug on a healthy person that has been deamed dangerous no waiver or anything else can change this. So the US studies are all on sick people and as far as i have seen they have all been done wrong. no pct ect. wrong doses bad diet, terminal patients ect. its a scare tactic. And i have no problem with that becouse its saposed to be aimed at the 18 and younger generation. Problem is you have guys like our wonderfull president who banned every legal form of anything that works. so now you have one choice go without or buy the real deal... i you can get it. i personaly think that certin AAS increase the quality of life in 26 year old and older people but instead of telling the truth they give out a line of bullshit. It angers me when i hear negative feedback in the news or these little documentrys they do where they do everything wrong and make these chemicals look like they are going to turn you into a raging mad man.

I would love to see a proper test done on a group of healthy 26-28 year old men and see them try and explain they lack of side effects and the good these drugs can do if used correctly and PCT is implemented.. sorry about the rant you just cought my attention with part of your post and i wanted to applaud you for telling it like it is.

I never knew that Transit, very intresting i wonder if Anthony R even knows this when he said his strange remarks regarding something he didnt understand, you make some good points and i totally agree with you, thanks

[Property of Steroid.com]

By your definition all our ways of cycling; AI-use; SERM-use; and PCTs are similarly unsupported.

Correct me if i'm wrong..but writers take studies based on mice; females; AIDS patients and hypothesize... creating theories which we test for applicability.

Other writers take drug profiles; drug-drug interactions and put foward potential theories on how drugs should be run.

...and poof a theory is born...which the message board blindly follows.

Here now Marcus presents a theory which, apparently, has been real-world tested and it's shot down.

This board is amazing.

Imma wait for the next "what does Ronnie take" thread...

Primo anyone?

Well...that's not true...a large body of evidence exists for our use of those products for what we use them for. In fact, their use came out of the medical literature first, not from bodbuilders. We took the literature then experimented, not the other way around.

People had pretty good real-world evidence for saying the world is flat too....empirically, it looked like a good theory.

In the case of the short cycle theory, it just seems that it doesn't hold water.

[Property of Steroid.com]

I never knew that Transit, very intresting i wonder if Anthony R even knows this when he said his strange remarks regarding something he didnt understand, you make some good points and i totally agree with you, thanks

Exactly what didn't I understand?

[Property of Steroid.com]

I never mention the word medical study I stated in one thread study and in another post personal studies, “study” doesn’t belong to medical journals like you have stated, for your attention the explanation of the word study in the Oxford English Dictionary is - 1 The devotion of time and attention to gaining knowledge, 2 a detailed investigation of a subject or situation, 3 piece of work done for practice or as a experiment, there is no mention of the word medical, but come on Anthony this issue is a play on words to try and discredit, mine relates to 2 and 3.

I havent got medical studies, i have reports /cycles from bodybuilders going back yrs and all of them together is one large study of this system, its not medical its real life bodybuilders who conduct their lifestyles as bodybuilders, the medical profession have nothing to do with real life BB's, i have no idea were that word came from within your head butthen again you have mention my studies/cycle log's/reports as Anecodotes, your choice of words really amuses me alot, let me explain,Anecodotes in the Oxford English Dic is a short entertaining story about a real incident or person!!! trust me my studies are not entertaining nor are they a story or any incidents, i can say your further than the truth than anything infact, you have entertained me with your storys today,simple words for you it doesnt matter what your call them or choose to say, you will never change the outcome of the results,
I have been in this game for 18yrs and over time ive accumulated loads of studies/ reports/cycle logs or what ever you would like to call them to back this method up that it works, for me and many other people MEDICAL studies are not worth the paper its written on normally they are done on mice, Aids victims or the average man who as never done any kind of training or ever used any kind of AAS, You an educated man and understand medical studies are worth not as much as real life experiences, real life reports/studies/cycle logs or what ever you want to call them from many Bodybuilders are worth far more than some Medical studies done on the average man or mouse, real life experiences from Bodybuilders who run their life as Bodybuilders is what I take more note of and I don’t care for MEDICAL studies because with every medical study comes another contradicting one,

I will state again this system is used widely in the pro ranks and amateur’s and is not something new, it is here and is used with great success its been around for years even in the Mentzer, Dillet,Yates and Nasser days all have reported this as been a way of cycling for them at some stage, I am a big believer in doing what works and for me short cycling is a part of me building muscle when it suits,

I have nothing to gain infact it was Warrior who told me to post his study/cycle log and if you read it and understand what he did it worked for him also, I don’t have to prove anything am just telling you what works for many, I have nothing to gain I am not selling anything nor do I have some magic pill what does wonders, i have nothing to gain what so ever I don’t have to discredit people to generate more business nor do I want more clients, am just passing information on what ive gathered over the years regarding BB,

I have never mentioned any dosages so were ever you got 4000mgs a wk from heavens knows prob same place as your choice of words regarding BB's reports/cycle logs, the dosages are worked off the individuals cycle history and this way of short cycling can be adapted to any level and in some cases low dose is required, you have to understand the whole process of priming, designing a cycle what works and use dosages to suit, a very intense training program and diet and not to be disrespectful I remember about 2-3 wks ago you posting that you didn’t understand the priming issue or fully understood what I meant so I do find it hard to take anything you say on this issue with any credability because you don’t fully understand or have never have tried it, on the overhand I have read plenty of your work and have practised many things you have said with success, remember we are not always right all the time and we dont know everything about everything, and sometimes we all need to stop,listen and learn!

Also regarding sides effects the body as substantial sides if you are using chemicals for some length of time the body adjust itself and the longer you are on the harder for you to recover, I have found and yet again many state who use this method sides are a lot less using short cycling weather heavy/light or moderate, the body can regenerate itself in a short period of time, if BB’s are using a system what builds muscle tissue and they recover and maintain the gains with good time off then your on the right track, your doing what works for you but if gains are few and far between and maintanance is hard work or you lose all gains, then try something different, find something what works and stick with it,

Warrior's results speaks for itself and if everyone is honest with themselves how much do you gain and keep after cycle? Its impossible to discredit warriors report/cycle log its there in black and white, all I can say is try it for yourself you might just be shocked and to be honest it’s the only way your going to give it any credibility is to try it, if you need any help planning send us a PM if your willing to try it, I will stress again do you have any idea how much muscle you can gain in a short period of time if you open the growth window? Ask any comp guy after show how much he gains if he goes on a cycle and uses this window, if this window is used and you couple this with a cycle what works and compounds and then incorporate this into a very heavy intense training program the gains are hugh and many pro’s use this to spring board themselves into the next phase and that’s just a comp diet just think what it would achieve if your primed properly,

I understood it all, actually...I've known about PB and his theories for years, in detail...I read everything about him years ago (it's no coincidence that I posted all of those quotes from him and hinted at several other things when I commented on PB).....I was just being polite and asking you to define certain things further before we continued, so I wasn't using one word (like study) to mean something that you weren't using it as. I know exactly what PB's theory is, I just wanted to be clear about certain terms, which I wanted YOU to define before we continued the dialogue, this way I didn't ask you for another study, and you tell me a fairytale about this girl who's brother's best friend knew this guy, etc...

[BIG_T_MC06]

Ok, you do understand this method AR but the fact IS that i myself have used this mehtod and so have countless others to gain more size off one cycle than we would off say 2-3 standard cycles.

Results don't lie. PB was henched 280+lbs with single digit body fat, can you say the same?

T

[Maldorf]

Exactly what didn't I understand?

I think he was talking about the fact that you cant legally administer AAS to young healthy adult men in the US, and so this means all of the studies out there originating in our country come from men that have some kind of condition. I hadnt thought about that either, but its probably true. I do know there are some studies coming out of europe, laws much different over there. Ive seen all of these studies and none of them would really hold up in the medical/scientific community. Too many variables in the studies go uncontrolled. In the end its all empirical studies and not a true scientific study.

[Property of Steroid.com]

Ok, you do understand this method AR but the fact IS that i myself have used this mehtod and so have countless others to gain more size off one cycle than we would off say 2-3 standard cycles.

Results don't lie. PB was henched 280+lbs with single digit body fat, can you say the same?

T

I'm not a bodybuilder....in my case, I've won 2 championships in my sport, and coached a team to two championships as well. As for my body, I modeled for Ralph Lauren in an internationally circulated fashion magazine....I'm pretty happy with my physique. I also trained Ms. New Jersey (and unlike PB's claims about Dorian, she won't deny it!), and helped more than one IFBB professional.

Im glad that this method works. Taking an ASS-LOAD of steroids works...there's no question about that, and I'm not denying that the person who Paul had taking a bottle per day of anabolics grew like a week. The question is does it work better than other methods, and is it safe? I think the answer is no, and I think this method is inferior to other methods...that's all I'm saying.

[Property of Steroid.com]

I think he was talking about the fact that you cant legally administer AAS to young healthy adult men in the US, and so this means all of the studies out there originating in our country come from men that have some kind of condition. I hadnt thought about that either, but its probably true. I do know there are some studies coming out of europe, laws much different over there. Ive seen all of these studies and none of them would really hold up in the medical/scientific community. Too many variables in the studies go uncontrolled. In the end its all empirical studies and not a true scientific study.

ACTUALLY....you can legally administer AAS to healthy young men in the US of A, and study it. I think you're mistaken. One of the most famous studies was on (up to) 600mgs/week of Testosterone Enanthate , to determine the dose-response curve; it was conducted on healthy young men. You know what they found out? That if you take more testosterone , you get bigger and stronger than if you take less. If you check my Test E. profile, it's referenced there.

[Maldorf]

ACTUALLY....you can legally administer AAS to healthy young men in the US of A, and study it. I think you're mistaken. One of the most famous studies was on (up to) 600mgs/week of Testosterone Enanthate, to determine the dose-response curve; it was conducted on healthy young men. You know what they found out? That if you take more testosterone, you get bigger and stronger than if you take less. If you check my Test E. profile, it's referenced there.

Out of curiosity, do you know how they get around the legality of giving scheduled substances to healthy persons? Was the study done before they were scheduled like they are now? I dont doubt you, just would like to know for the sake of knowing.

[Property of Steroid.com]

Out of curiosity, do you know how they get around the legality of giving scheduled substances to healthy persons? Was the study done before they were scheduled like they are now? I dont doubt you, just would like to know for the sake of knowing.

No...the study was done after the Anabolic Steroid Control Act. I think you just have a slight misconception about the legal issues regarding medical studies...no big deal. It's a common misconception...you certainly CAN do studies on healthy people, depending on the study in question.

[marcus300]

I understood it all, actually...I've known about PB and his theories for years, in detail...I read everything about him years ago (it's no coincidence that I posted all of those quotes from him and hinted at several other things when I commented on PB).....I was just being polite and asking you to define certain things further before we continued, so I wasn't using one word (like study) to mean something that you weren't using it as. I know exactly what PB's theory is, I just wanted to be clear about certain terms, which I wanted YOU to define before we continued the dialogue, this way I didn't ask you for another study, and you tell me a fairytale about this girl who's brother's best friend knew this guy, etc...

You have to understand the whole idea, i will say again its the whole process not just the cycling i must of told you this 2-3 times now and you still dont seem to take it in, ie priming,intense training,correct designed cycle amd diet,

Also you dont fully understand because of your comments on a previous thread which ive posted before, i will quote form one of your posts,


"I'm not 100% familiar with the prime/burst as Marcus is using the terms."

12-03-2006, 11:33 AM
Ive answered you many times and have blown holes in your replies, so best bet do some more research and lets get back to what we are here for,

[Property of Steroid.com]

Reason why you hold more and build more is because you recover your own system fatser than you would for shutting it down for 4months, after a long cycle you may have built some good muscle but maintaining it is hard work becasue you cant recover fast so to hold the new muscle tissue, with short cycles you open the growth window for muscle tissue to gain quickly just like it does naturally we grow in spurts, when we prime we open this window and then you hit the system with short burst cycle and change the training to very intense training, you then have a growth spurt and it stops, no point in running longer cycles you wont gain anymore if that was true we would all be 500lbs+,

Many BB's run this system many pro's and lots of Europeans, heavy burst cycle are not for the beginner but something similar can be designed for them just the amount of gear is not needed but priming would be of great advantage and a standard short cycle

I'd like to see evidence for this. If you're going to claim that you recover your system more quickly, then I think there should be (in your posession) bloodwork before, during, and after the cycle, where we can see that you do actually recover your HPTA more quickly.

[Property of Steroid.com]

You have to understand the whole idea, i will say again its the whole process not just the cycling i must of told you this 2-3 times now and you still dont seem to take it in, ie priming,intense training,correct designed cycle amd diet,

Also you dont fully understand because of your comments on a previous thread which ive posted before, i will quote form one of your posts,


"I'm not 100% familiar with the prime/burst as Marcus is using the terms."

12-03-2006, 11:33 AM
Ive answered you many times and have blown holes in your replies, so best bet do some more research and lets get back to what we are here for,

Notice that I say I'm not familiar with it as YOU are using the terms. That's because "Study" seemed (to me) to mean one thing, and when I asked you for some studies, you seemed to think it meant something different than me (and everyone else on this board).

You haven't blown holes in any replies. Show us some proof that this method works better than others, and you keep more gains.

Lets see some bloodwork where the HPTA is recovered more quickly than with other methods, which is (apparently) the reason you keep more gains with this method. Scan the bloodwork you have (take the names out), and show us that you actually have the data (proof) that you claim you have.

[marcus300]

Notice that I say I'm not familiar with it as YOU are using the terms. That's because "Study" seemed (to me) to mean one thing, and when I asked you for some studies, you seemed to think it meant something different than me (and everyone else on this board).

You haven't blown holes in any replies. Show us some proof that this method works better than others, and you keep more gains.

Lets see some bloodwork where the HPTA is recovered more quickly than with other methods, which is (apparently) the reason you keep more gains with this method. Scan the bloodwork you have (take the names out), and show us that you actually have the data (proof) that you claim you have.

Hit a nerve did i Anthony, chill out !

ive had many reports back from BB's who state bloodwork better than normally way of cycling, why would they lie about that?

recovery from long cycles is hard work and in practise recovering your HPTA is alot easier when you have only shut it down for a short period, otherwise Anthony we would all go on 12 month cycles and recover no problem, the longer your on and shutdown makes it hard to recover than short time shutdown,

Like ive said afew times i have nothing to gain from just telling everyone what can be achieved from this whole way of cycling, you didnt understand the priming so i do find it very hard to take anything you say with any credability,

i have nothing to gain i am not selling anything or have any magic pills for sale or need to generate anymore clients, many on this board are stating the same who have tried it, you havent and dont understand the whole process, you just have the hump with me because ive proven you wrong many time, you contridict yourself many times ie- i dont know what you mean by priming, then you do, short cycle dont work then they do its just bloodwork, keep trying if you want but reports/studies and cycle logs from Bodybuilder who run their lifes as bodybuilder say so different than you, word of advice "we are not always right about everything sometimes we need to look stop and listen"

it works, its proven by many BB's on here and world wide, so you have your opinion thats fine,

lets get back on track

[Swifto]

What kind of PCT is needed after these short 4-5 week cycles and how long does one take time "off"?

[marcus300]

Notice that I say I'm not familiar with it as YOU are using the terms. That's because "Study" seemed (to me) to mean one thing, and when I asked you for some studies, you seemed to think it meant something different than me (and everyone else on this board).

You haven't blown holes in any replies. Show us some proof that this method works better than others, and you keep more gains.

Lets see some bloodwork where the HPTA is recovered more quickly than with other methods, which is (apparently) the reason you keep more gains with this method. Scan the bloodwork you have (take the names out), and show us that you actually have the data (proof) that you claim you have.

I am just the messanger, all the reports/studies/cycle logs and everyone posting on here tells you something different than what your saying, you contridict yourself all the time, you say one thing then say another,

i am sorry if i hit a nerve with you but i would rather take it from BB's who have done it and tried it and have reports saying what happened than someone who didnt understand the whole process, ie priming!!

all we are doing is going back and forth, if i have upset in anyway i apoligies but you did say some remarkable comments with little knowledge,

results speak for themself- end of story

[Property of Steroid.com]

Hit a nerve did i Anthony, chill out !

ive had many reports back from BB's who state bloodwork better than normally way of cycling, why would they lie about that?

Ok. So you don't actually have any of this bloodwork. You don't have any real studies (medical ones, as the term "study" implies).

You have no studies to cite, no bloodwork to post, etc, etc, etc....

You haven't even seen the bloodwork personally. Great.

Very Credible.

In short, there's really no verifiable proof of anything you're claiming.

[marcus300]

Ok. So you don't actually have any of this bloodwork. You don't have any real studies (medical ones, as the term "study" implies).

You have no studies to cite, no bloodwork to post, etc, etc, etc....

You haven't even seen the bloodwork personally. Great.

Very Credible.

In short, there's really no verifiable proof of anything you're claiming.

I have many reports/stuides but nothing to prove to you who as no credability, check out warriors reports might help you in your research

Read previous post Anthony , i have many and many have reported on here, just atke a look at warriors results,

i am sorry if i hit a nerve with you but i would rather take it from BB's who have done it and tried it and have reports saying what happened than someone who didnt understand the whole process, ie priming!!

all we are doing is going back and forth, if i have upset in anyway i apoligies but you did say some remarkable comments with little knowledge,

results speak for themself- end of story

you want to carry on PM me but i do find it hard to take anything form you on this subject with any credability, and with you carrying on trying to discredit people reports or methods of cycle just shows many thing to me and others,

best of luck to you in your goal

[Property of Steroid.com]

I have many reports/stuides but nothing to prove to you who as no credability, check out warriors reports might help you in your research

Read previous post Anthony , i have many and many have reported on here, just atke a look at warriors results,

i am sorry if i hit a nerve with you but i would rather take it from BB's who have done it and tried it and have reports saying what happened than someone who didnt understand the whole process, ie priming!!

all we are doing is going back and forth, if i have upset in anyway i apoligies but you did say some remarkable comments with little knowledge,

results speak for themself- end of story

you want to carry on PM me but i do find it hard to take anything form you on this subject with any credability, and with you carrying on trying to discredit people reports or methods of cycle just shows many thing to me and others,

best of luck to you in your goal

You didn't hit a nerve. You did what most people do when they lose an argument (they attack the person they are agruing against).

I don't need to "try" to discredit PB...he did that himself, first by claiming to have worked with Dorain (which Dorian denied), then by publishing his absurd thoughts on AAS.

Also....isn't Warrior still on AAS, and don't we NOT have any evidence that he has recovered any single bit of his HPTA? In short, all we know is that he gained muscle...the real test is whether he recovered his HPTA and KEPT the gains, isn't it? And that hasn't been seen or proven yet. In short, the ONE piece of decent evidence you have....actually isn't relevant.
In this thread, none of the claims you have made have been backed up with a shred of evidence...there's no reason to believe that any of what you're claiming is true regarding HPTA recovery, etc...since not only did you fail to produce studies, you haven't even got bloodwork to verify a single claim you have made.

All of the claims which you have made in this thread are, as a result of your failure to provide evidence for them, better off being dismissed as utter bullshit by the members here. I guess PB's methods are still alive...but I'm not talking about short/heavy cycles...I'm talking about trying to pass off bullshit without evidence...

[marcus300]

You didn't hit a nerve. You did what most people do when they lose an argument (they attack the person they are agruing against).

I don't need to "try" to discredit PB...he did that himself, first by claiming to have worked with Dorain (which Dorian denied), then by publishing his absurd thoughts on AAS.

In this thread, none of the claims you have made have been backed up with a shred of evidence...there's no reason to believe that any of what you're claiming is true regarding HPTA recovery, etc...since not only did you fail to produce studies, you haven't even got bloodwork to verify a single claim you have made.

All of the claims which you have made in this thread are, as a result of your failure to provide evidence for them, better off being dismissed as utter bullshit by the members here. I guess PB's methods are still alive...but I'm not talking about short/heavy cycles...I'm talking about trying to pass off bullshit without evidence...

Anthony i didnt attack you at all i wouldnt do that, its your constant arguing which makes you look many things,

I answered your question regarding PB and Dorian which yet again you ignore, yes there are many articles but people who knew him and how this game works at a high level will understand DY had to dismiss any claims PB was in his camp otherwise he wouldnt of got the Weider contract, surely you understand, its well know in the right circles,

I can post bloodwork but to be honest Anthony your only going to say i made them up and are false so its like banging my head on a brick wall with you, you have issues with me because i blow holes in everything you have said and to be honest you amuse me but if you want to carry on going back and forth do it through PM and not on the board pls,

I say again there are to many BB's who claim it works with good results, so if you dont believe them thats fine but your constant trying to pick holes into it as made you look rather daft,

you can say it doesnt work because it does just take one report from warrior, i say good results,

I dont have any motive Anthony to claim anything, i am not trying to sell any magic pills or want to generate more clients,I am not going back and forth because you have been shown wrong and your upset with me, listen i dont want to keep going back and forth so if you want to carry on and need to learn anymore about priming and other things surrounding this give me a PM, i will be happy to help,

But your not winning and am not carrying this stupid argument on, i had many PM's saying exact the same thing about how you are conducting yourself so chill out and move on,if you dont like it fine, but you dont understand the whole thing but ive tried to explain but your tunnel vissioned and there is only one view whats right and thats you, whats wrong with you calm down and get on with your job and educate people on this board or what ever motive you have being here,