Warrior's short cycle feedback

[marcus300]

What kind of PCT is needed after these short 4-5 week cycles and how long does one take time "off"?

Swifto, pct is normally what you would use to recover in any cycle, you know how you best recover, alot of the times bringing back your own HPTA is alot quicker than longer cycles, but when tren is used alot of the time its as hard as any cycle using tren, harsh compound but great results,

time off would depend what your goals are and what you want to achieve, a 6 week prime is excellent to further your gains and create that enviroment and open the growth window, some bridge with low dose to next cycle depends what your after,

pct compound would depend on what you used for the cycle,

[Swifto]

Swifto, pct is normally what you would use to recover in any cycle, you know how you best recover, alot of the times bringing back your own HPTA is alot quicker than longer cycles, but when tren is used alot of the time its as hard as any cycle using tren, harsh compound but great results,

time off would depend what your goals are and what you want to achieve, a 6 week prime is excellent to further your gains and create that enviroment and open the growth window, some bridge with low dose to next cycle depends what your after,

pct compound would depend on what you used for the cycle,

Ok.

I guess BW is the key to see how inhibited one is after such a cycle.

[marcus300]

Ok.

I guess BW is the key to see how inhibited one is after such a cycle.

Yes that would help alot, but shuting your system down for a short peroid is far better than long shutdown, otherwise we would all be on for yrs and recover, many claim fast rebound and good maintanance afterwards

[Property of Steroid.com]

Marcus:

I posted in the other thread. It turns out that T-N ation researched PB and he didn't have a degree in Pharmacology, Biology, etc...nor has his work appeared in any medical journals...and didn't work with ANY of the clients he said he did...in fact, the majority of his work (working with clients), it appears...was done by two other people who simply allowed PB to take the credit. PB was, according to everyone who researched his credentials...simply a fraud.

[marcus300]

Marcus:

I posted in the other thread. It turns out that T-N ation researched PB and he didn't have a degree in Pharmacology, Biology, etc...nor has his work appeared in any medical journals...and didn't work with ANY of the clients he said he did...in fact, the majority of his work (working with clients), it appears...was done by two other people who simply allowed PB to take the credit. PB was, according to everyone who researched his credentials...simply a fraud.

yes Anthony what ever you say is true, pull your neck back in and stop being jealous of a serious guro,

you constant bickering is looking rather stupid,

chill out, pm if you want the truth about PB and DY, ive told you many times but you dont listen

[twiney]

I dont think Anthony can handle the truth.He is like a little boy.

[scriptfactory]

yes Anthony what ever you say is true, pull your neck back in and stop being jealous of a serious guro,

you constant bickering is looking rather stupid,

chill out, pm if you want the truth about PB and DY, ive told you many times but you dont listen

Hmmm... Here is something I bookmarked last year.

FLASH!

The day before this article was sent off to be posted, we contacted Ian Harrison by telephone in England to get his comments about some recent claims made on Biohazard849, Paul Borreson's UK website. Specifically, Borreson is still claiming an association with Ian and claims Ian had nothing to do with the recent breakup. Here's what Ian had to say.

AE: Ian, what is the status of your relationship with Paul Borreson?

Ian: I've split with Paul Borreson and I have no connection with Biohazard UK anymore.

AE: What role will you play, if any, in the future of Biohazard USA?

Ian: My future is most definitely in the USA, and I feel confident I will be working with Trevor Smith.

So that's it folks! Seems something fishy is about with Paul Borreson and Biohazard UK since he still claims a relationship with Ian. You heard it hear first!

Copyright 1999 Jason Meuller and Anabolic Extreme. This material may not be copied, reproduced, or transmitted without the express written permission of the copyright owners.

THE BIOHAZARD USA ARTICLE
THE REAL SITUATION......

IT HAS COME TO BIOHAZARD USA'S ATTENTION THAT WE HAVE BEEN DUPED.....LIED TO, AND BASICALLY MADE TO LOOK LIKE A ****ING FOOL....

BIOHAZARD USA WAS FOUNDED BY IAN HARRISON AND TREVOR SMITH WHO WERE INSPIRED BY THE PRINCIPLES SET FORTH, BUT SELDOM FOLLOWED BY PAUL BORRESEN....DURING THIS PROCESS WE WERE LED TO BELIEVE MANY THINGS...ALL OF WHICH WE HAVE COME TO FIND OUT HAVE BEEN UN-TRUE!!!

ALL OF THE CYCLE PROGRAMS YOU HAVE RECEIVED HAVE, IN FACT, BEEN PROVIDED BY TREVOR SMITH AND IAN HARRISON......THIS CANNOT BE DENIED SINCE ALL THOSE HAVING RECEIVED EMAIL RESPONSES CLEARLY CAN SEE THAT THEY CAME FROM [email protected] WHO CONSULTS DAILY WITH I.F.B.B. PROFESSIONAL IAN HARRISON . THEY NEVER CAME FROM PAUL BORRESEN EXCEPT A SMALL NUMBER THAT HE ANSWERED WHEN HE WAS OVER HERE....

HOWEVER, BECAUSE WE BELIEVED IN WHAT WE WERE TOLD AND BECAUSE WE ARE LOYAL PEOPLE, WE DECIDED TO TAKE A BACK SEAT AND LET PAUL BORRESEN HAVE ALL THE CREDIT

THIS, OF COURSE, WILL NO LONGER CONTINUE!!!

AS WE SPEAK THERE ARE A PLETHORA OF LAWSUITS TARGETED AT MR. BORRESEN FOR MAKING UN-SUBSTANTIATED CLAIMS....NOT THE LEAST OF WHICH IS THAT THE GREAT DORIAN YATES IS A DRUG ADDICT.....THIS IS NOT ONLY UNFAIR, BUT DEAD WRONG, ESPECIALLY CONSIDERING THE SOURCE WHO HIMSELF IS KNOWN TO HAVE A LARGE NUMBER OF, SHALL WE SAY, PERSONAL ISSUES...... IT HAS ALSO COME TO OUR ATTENTION THAT PAUL BORRESEN IS MAKING CLAIMS THAT HE IS COACHING LEE PRIEST FOR THE MR. OLYMPIA AND THAT HE PERSONALLY KNOWS LEE USES 3000MG OF GEAR PER DAY!!! WELL UPON SPEAKING TO LEE TO CLEAR SOME THINGS UP HE PROVED THE TYPE OF MAN HE IS BY BASICALLY LAUGHING AT THE WHOLE THING. LET’S FACE IT 3000MG WOULD KILL A ****ING BULL, NOT TO MENTION THAT THERE IS NO REASON TO USE THESE AMOUNTS…..PAUL BORRESEN ALSO STATED THAT LEE EATS 30 BIG MACS A DAY IN THE OFF SEASON AND GETS AWAY WITH THIS BY USING A TON OF INSULIN …..THIS IS ALSO A JOKE SINCE AFTER SPEAKING WITH LEE AND HIS DOCTOR WE FOUND OUT THAT LEE IS HYPO-GLYCEMIC AND NEVER—NOR CAN HE EVER—USE INSULIN….LOOK FOR A FULL BLOWN INTERVIEW WITH LEE NEXT MONTH

BOTH TREVOR SMITH AND IAN HARRISON ALONG WITH CHRIS SNEDDON (WHO WERE ALL ON HAND TO CARRY PAUL BORRESEN THROUGH THE USA SEMINAR BECAUSE OF HIS HORRIBLE CONDITION) HAVE NOW SPOKEN WITH BOTH DORIAN YATES AND KERRY KAYES AND ABOUT 30 OTHER PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN LEFT HOLDING THE BAG OF SHIT CREATED BY PAUL BORRESEN

WE WOULD LIKE TO TAKE THE TIME TO APOLOGIZE WHOLE HEARTEDLY FOR ANY SLANDEROUS INFORMATION THAT APPEARED IN OUR WEBSITE IN REGARDS TO DORIAN YATES, CHEMICAL NUTRITION, KERRY KAYES, BRIAN BATCHELDOR T.C. LUOMA AND TESTOSTERONE .NET........AS IT TURNS OUT, THEY HAD EVERY RIGHT TO PULL THE INTERVIEW WITH PAUL BORRESEN DUE TO THE FACT THAT NONE OF HIS CLAIMS COULD BE SUBSTANTIATED---EVEN THOUGH WE WERE ASSURED THAT COPIES OF ALL LITERATURE PUBLISHED AND ALL DEGREES WERE SENT FED-EX TO T.C. LUOMA AT TESTOSTERONE.NET TO VALIDATE PAUL'S CREDENTIALS.... (UNFORTUNATELY THIS WAS SUPPOSED TO BE DONE BY SOMEONE CLAIMING TO BE BOTH A PHARMACOLOGIST, BIOCHEMIST AND NOW A DOCTOR, BUT WHO IS NOT ANY OF THE ABOVE)

IN SHORT, BIOHAZARD USA IS HERE TO STAY HOLDING TRUE TO IT'S PRINCIPLES......WE HAVE NEVER LIED TO ANYONE, BUT UNFORTUNATELY WE HAVE BEEN LIED TO A GREAT NUMBER OF TIMES BY THE VERY PERSON WE WERE TRYING TO PROMOTE........ IT SHOULD ALSO BE MADE KNOWN THAT THE REASON WE HAVE BEEN DELAYED IN HAVING OUR PRODUCTS AVAILABLE IS THAT SEVERAL SHIPMENTS WHICH WERE PRE-PAID FOR WERE NEVER SENT BY PAUL BORRESEN WHO INSTEAD STRUNG US ALONG CLAIMING THEY WERE SENT OR BEING SENT AND THAT IT WAS CUSTOMS FAULT THAT THEY DID NOT GET HERE.....OF COURSE WE RECENTLY FOUND OUT THE PRODUCTS WERE NEVER SHIPPED, BUT THAT THE MONEY SENT FOR THEM WENT INSTEAD INTO MR. BORRESENS POCKET....THIS WAS THE SAME SCENARIO FOR PROMINENT NATIONAL COMPETITOR JUSTIN BROOKES, WHOM BOTH TREVOR AND IAN HELPED IN THE OFF SEASON TO GET TO HIS BIGGEST EVER (293LBS) ONLY TO WATCH A NON-FUNCTIONAL PAUL BORRESEN **** UP HIS WHOLE CONTEST PREP BY NOT SENDING HIS PROGRAMS AND SCREWING HIM OUT OF 800 DOLLARS. THE END RESULT FOR JUSTIN WAS THAT HE WEIGHED IN AT 242LBS.....A FAR CRY FROM THE 265LBS HE SHOULD HAVE CARRIED ON THE STAGE HAD SOMEONE NOT COMPLETELY ****ED HIS ENTIRE CONTEST PREP.....

WE CAN NOW TAKE THE FRONT SEAT (WHERE WE BELONG) IN BRINGING HARD-CORE INFORMATION AND PRODUCTS TO THE MASSES. BOTH IAN AND TREVOR PERSONALLY APOLOGIZE AND HOPE THAT YOU ALL REALIZE THAT THIS WILL DO NOTHING BUT MAKE US A STRONGER COMPANY.......IF ANYONE HAS ANY QUESTIONS OR NEEDS ANY ASSISTANCE WE ENCOURAGE YOU TO CALL US AT xxx-xxx-xxxx OR EMAIL US.......

LOOK FOR MORE ARTICLES ON THIS TURN OF EVENTS AND LOOK FOR A FULL BLOWN INTERVIEW WITH THE GREAT DORIAN YATES.....WHO WILL BE ON HAND AT THE 1999 MR. OLYMPIA TO CONTINUE TO GIVE BACK TO THE SPORT AND PROMOTE HIS AND HIS PARTNER KERRY KAYES' COMPANY--CHEMICAL NUTRITION. IF YOU PLAN ON ATTENDING THE 1999 MR. OLYMPIA IN LAS VEGAS, PLEASE STOP BY THEIR BOTH AND SHOW YOUR SUPPORT, AND TELL THEM TREVOR AND IAN SENT YOU AND THEY WILL BE MORE THAN HAPPY TO SET THINGS STRAIGHT IN A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT WAYS…..

[scriptfactory]

Again, I'm not attacking the priming/cycling thing as it has been proven to work to a certain extent. I just want to make sure this shit is safe (and effective at keeping gains) because PB was a junkie... He wrote something like the reason we age is because our bodies get allergic to themselves so if suppress histamines we will live longer... WTF?

Safety first!

[Property of Steroid.com]

Hmmm... Here is something I bookmarked last year.

Nice. I put that in the other thread...

I edited that a bit (for length) and posted it a bit earlier today, I think...I also included T - Nation's comments that PB has NONE OF THE ACADEMIC CREDENTIALS HE CLAIMED TO HAVE.

In short, PB was investigated by several people, and he actually had none of the clients, credentials, etc...that he said he did...

On a personal note, it's kind of getting ghey that I'm being attacked personally in this and the other thread. PB is a FRAUD, and is NOT taken seriously by anyone in the AAS world....why am I such a bad guy for pointing that out?

[scriptfactory]

Nice. I put that in the other thread...

I edited that a bit (for length) and posted it a bit earlier today, I think...I also included T - Nation's comments that PB has NONE OF THE ACADEMIC CREDENTIALS HE CLAIMED TO HAVE.

In short, PB was investigated by several people, and he actually had none of the clients, credentials, etc...that he said he did...

On a personal note, it's kind of getting ghey that I'm being attacked personally in this and the other thread. PB is a FRAUD, and is NOT taken seriously by anyone in the AAS world....why am I such a bad guy for pointing that out?

I hear you, man. PB was, from what I have heard, a nutjob. Everyone who met him said the same thing. Dude used WAY too many drugs or something.

Marcus, not attacking you, bro. I'm just a sceptic...

[Property of Steroid.com]

I hear you, man. PB was, from what I have heard, a nutjob. Everyone who met him said the same thing. Dude used WAY too many drugs or something.

Marcus, not attacking you, bro. I'm just a sceptic...

The clients who he had, who were successful (according to that post) were actually clients of other people writing out the cycles and such.

The real issue here has almost nothing to do with PB, but rather a theory of his. However, in an effort to give him credibility, his credentials have been cited...and completely refuted.

Some of what he has written works to some degree....the majority of it is the insane bullshit produced by a junkie.

[Property of Steroid.com]

Here's a good comment about Paul, concerning his ACTUAL STATS, not the bullshit we're seeing in this thread:

"TREVOR SMITH: WHEN I FIRST CONTACTED PAUL HE TOLD ME HE WAS 285LBS IN 10% BODYFAT....WHEN I FINALLY SAW HIM FOR THE FIRST TIME HE WAS AROUND 245LBS. I HAVE ONLY SEEN PICTURES OF HIM IN CONTEST SHAPE AND HE WEIGHED AROUND 200LBS.....THE THING IS, IS THAT HE TOLD ME THAT HE WOULD BE 306LBS BY THE TIME OF THE SEMINAR, SO I PROMOTED HIM IN ALL THE ADVERTISEMENTS AS A 5'8'' 306LB FREAK OF NATURE WITH 23'' CALVES, AND WHAT SHOWED UP WAS SOMEONE WHO WAS NOT FIT TO DO MUCH OF ANYTHING DUE TO EXTREMELY POOR HEALTH MENTALLY AND PHYSICALLY AND WEIGHED ABOUT 225LBS."

He competed, by the way...as a light-heavy...nowhere near anything resembling the stats he claimed for himself.

The plot thickens...

[marcus300]

Here's a good comment about Paul, concerning his ACTUAL STATS, not the bullshit we're seeing in this thread:



He competed, by the way...as a light-heavy...nowhere near anything resembling the stats he claimed for himself.

The plot thickens...

I am sorry if i offended you by saying i think your jealous of Paul B but thats my opinion, my reasoning behind this is that you constant trying to discredit the whole concept of short cycling and then when we have debated short cycling and we cant argue anymore you start on something else like Paul B to try and discredit the theory, truth is you cant discredit this because so many people say it works great,

Also why i find myself not believing a word you say is because you contradict yourself so many times and one of the most reasons why i think you don't know what your talking about on this subject is you said you didn't understand it, i will quote -

1, "I'm not 100% familiar with the prime/burst as Marcus is using the terms."
if your not 100% familiar with prime and burst cycle how can you comment so much and think your right when truth is by your own words your not 100% familiar with the whole idea?
as soon as you said that i knew what i was dealing with, no disrespect intended,

2, i quote again "I am not criticizing the man himself, but rather an idea (Short Heavy Cycles) which has no scientific foundation" post 294You have constantly said that they are no good and the worse thing anyone could do but when i said the results speak for themselves and you cant knock many BB's results stating good results you come back with yet another wonderful statement and i quote -

"And I admit that short/heavy cycles work. I think they don't work as well as other (much safer) alternatives". post 299 one hand you state one thing and when proven wrong you contradict yourself by saying they work but now not as good as other methods!!


Your remarks about Paul B are ridicules, do you really think he could pass himself off without having said qualifications? could he hell as not, in the UK there was a programme on the BBC about Paul and his work with Aids victims and the use of AAS he had one patient who had his life extended by 5 yrs with Paul's work,do you really think he could have conned his way in? come on your an intelligent man? well i do have my doubt about that now tho!!

all the magazines he wrote for all his own publications and videos all the people he was advising, of course it was true, you just don't know the full story,, i will admit he was very outspoken and told it as it was and thats why he couldn't be seen having anything to do with DY because DY was going for the Weider contract and was trying to portray a certain image, Paul had no presences in that image DY was told to make statement that he never had anything to do with him ever, DY and PB were in contact nearly every day by phone, and the claims that DY never met are insane,

Paul set up a leading supplement company with Kerry Kayes and Brian Batcheldor in the UK, Paul was the brians behind it and produce the next generation proteins, in the side lines DY was there and it was decided that DY would endorse the product when he retired from the Mr O, Kery had known DY for the last 15yrs and Kerry and Paul was apart of DY's camp during his Mr O battles, everyone close to anyone in that camp knows the truth and in them days i was being advised by PB and DY camps on various issues, i know personally the truth, i only live a few miles away from the headquarters of the name company what PB,KK and DY owned,

what happened next was PB had some serious issues going on he broke his back and couldn't train or run the business, remember this guy was a monster and live bodybuilding so you can understand the frustration regarding not being able to train, infact he passed another qualification while in hospital while he was in traction, it was so funny because he couldn't train his body so he said he was training his brain, anyway while all this was going on DY was ready to front the company with KK so PB was bought out, if you knew DY and KK you would understand that when they say your being bought out thats what happens, Now PB was disgusted with the behavior of K and DY with how they went about it and he made this very open with the public so the company had its name changed and then went on to say it had nothing to do with PB or ever had, that is why alot of article stated this, KK and DY are not to be messed with and so PB was pushed out,

PB washed his hands of it and stop being so open with the truth and then went on to start another supplement company Bioharzard UK and USA with Ian Harrison and Trevor Smith
which later another supp co was started called Nuclear Nutrition, in the mean time Paul had some serious issues he couldn't train and weight was dropping of him, his back was in a horrible state, he was taking pain killers by the bucket load to try and numb the pain so he could train, this was his down fall, he couldn't stand being a normal man, he did have some madness in him but they say there is a fine line between genius and madness, anyway truth is he died and many people said he was mad and was doing all sorts towards the end of his life and if any of the company's had to survive they had to break away from this image he had with this very out spoken guru, drugs and supplements dont go hand in hand in the world today,
I have pics somewhere of Ian and PB in one of their videos, i will dig it out for you to see,

Statement from Biohazard USA -
"Paul Borresen died due to an overdose of pain killers which were being used to control the back pain Paul had nearly all of the time. Paul had been complaining more than usual after his time spent sleeping on an airport floor and then a long cramped flight home a week before his death."



Many people tried to discredit him because of the connections they had with PB because it doesn't look good to have anything to do with such a outspoken guru, the man was years ahead of his time and when he was in his prime he was untouchable,

Also which is going to be really tricky to mention but i feel you need to know, PB had the biggest UGL in UK which is another reason why they had to separate themselves from him, he also got busted by Narcotics squad, PB tried to take on board what everyone was saying and stop being so open about his work but they couldn't silence him, now can you see why the Pro's he was advising had to distance themselves away from him? can you see why supplements co had to distances themselves?

I would call him a proper steroid guru, some people have practical knowledge. Some people have the schooling. Paul Borresen has both, not to mention a 285-pound physique that doesn't stray far from around 8% body fat! How many of today's "gurus" do you know that can make the same claim?Here are some mags he wrote for and his own books-
Anabolic Edge,-1,The Anabolic Edge 2001
Written by the legend PB, this masterpiece, if you had to pick one, would be the best because it details the combination of drugs, supplements and foods and how they interact “anabolically” with each other more thoroughly than any steroid book.

The Stack,- How To Stack Steroids
The “Stack Master” strikes again. But this time Paul devotes an entire book The Stack to this most fascinating subject. Now you’ll easily be certified by the post office as a “new zip code” once you try any one of the dozens of stacks Paul has used to “manufacture” the biggest bodybuilders in the world. Must be 21 to read! The most controversial steroid book on the market.

The Big Secret,
The governor (mag)
Testosterone magazine,
Pump Magazine

Here are some of his achievement's-
Masters degree in pharmacology || Batchelors degree in biochemistry || Over 200 published articles || Author of the Anabolic Edge & The Big Secret || Author of the soon to be released An end to all secrets || Founder of Chemical Warefare (No longer associated) || Founder of BIOHAZARD Creator of THE GOVERNOR || British Northeast Heavyweight Champion || Coached Hundreds of champions including the great but now bitter Dorian Yates. Currently coaching 5 Pro`s including Ian Harrison, along with 150 local and top level amateurs. Self proclaimed owner of "the biggest calves on the planet!!"

Anthony he didn't copy other peoples work and publish it and pass it off as his own work like many proclaim guru of todays world, he looked like a bodybuilder and ran his life like one, i have nothing to gain for my claims, i have nothing to sell or need new client and i don't have any magic pills for sale,i have no motive not like some on here.

if you don't believe it thats fine, but Ive done with your constantly trying discredit anything i say, all i can say is, results speak for themselves and in your own words you really are not "100% familiar" with whole process surrounding short cycling so i cant take anything you say with any credibility,

I have 18yrs worth of experience in this game and it took me yrs to find out what works for me, i made good solid gains from 3-4 months cycle but shortly afterwords i couldn't really keep gaining, things slowed down alot, i only built muscle in the first half of cycle, Paul B and DY team told me to try this way, i did and i started to build again, now over the years i swapped and changed with cycles but i always go back to this whole process priming,short cycling, diet and intense training, it works and it will work for many others, its worth trying,

results speak for themselves, you childish comments are making you look very unprofessional in my eyes trying to constant slag this way of cycling, one day you say it works next it doesn't,
I hope Ive opened your eyes alittle and you can take all this in because it is the truth, one last thing you may carry on trying to discredit everything anybody says but results speak for themselves and let people try it and see for themselves thats what i did with warrior and just look how much he changed,

We don't know everything about everything and sometimes we need to stop listen and learn, thinking your view is the only one with any credibility speaks volumes to me, we can all learn form everybody, when we use chemicals within the body we all react differently there is nothing set in stone,
__________________

[BIG_T_MC06]

Amen!

[scriptfactory]

If there were any proof that he actually had any degrees it would lend more credence to all of those articles you copy and paste, Marcus. What college/university did he graduate from? His own partners said he was a lying sack of crap! I mean, did you know this dude personally?

[Property of Steroid.com]

I am sorry if i offended you by saying i think your jealous of Paul B but thats my opinion, my reasoning behind this is that you constant trying to discredit the whole concept of short cycling and then when we have debated short cycling and we cant argue anymore you start on something else like Paul B to try and discredit the theory, truth is you cant discredit this because so many people say it works great,

Also why i find myself not believing a word you say is because you contradict yourself so many times and one of the most reasons why i think you don't know what your talking about on this subject is you said you didn't understand it, i will quote -

1, "I'm not 100% familiar with the prime/burst as Marcus is using the terms."
if your not 100% familiar with prime and burst cycle how can you comment so much and think your right when truth is by your own words your not 100% familiar with the whole idea?
as soon as you said that i knew what i was dealing with, no disrespect intended,

2, i quote again "I am not criticizing the man himself, but rather an idea (Short Heavy Cycles) which has no scientific foundation" post 294You have constantly said that they are no good and the worse thing anyone could do but when i said the results speak for themselves and you cant knock many BB's results stating good results you come back with yet another wonderful statement and i quote -

"And I admit that short/heavy cycles work. I think they don't work as well as other (much safer) alternatives". post 299 one hand you state one thing and when proven wrong you contradict yourself by saying they work but now not as good as other methods!!


Your remarks about Paul B are ridicules, do you really think he could pass himself off without having said qualifications? could he hell as not, in the UK there was a programme on the BBC about Paul and his work with Aids victims and the use of AAS he had one patient who had his life extended by 5 yrs with Paul's work,do you really think he could have conned his way in? come on your an intelligent man? well i do have my doubt about that now tho!!

all the magazines he wrote for all his own publications and videos all the people he was advising, of course it was true, you just don't know the full story,, i will admit he was very outspoken and told it as it was and thats why he couldn't be seen having anything to do with DY because DY was going for the Weider contract and was trying to portray a certain image, Paul had no presences in that image DY was told to make statement that he never had anything to do with him ever, DY and PB were in contact nearly every day by phone, and the claims that DY never met are insane,

Paul set up a leading supplement company with Kerry Kayes and Brian Batcheldor in the UK, Paul was the brians behind it and produce the next generation proteins, in the side lines DY was there and it was decided that DY would endorse the product when he retired from the Mr O, Kery had known DY for the last 15yrs and Kerry and Paul was apart of DY's camp during his Mr O battles, everyone close to anyone in that camp knows the truth and in them days i was being advised by PB and DY camps on various issues, i know personally the truth, i only live a few miles away from the headquarters of the name company what PB,KK and DY owned,

what happened next was PB had some serious issues going on he broke his back and couldn't train or run the business, remember this guy was a monster and live bodybuilding so you can understand the frustration regarding not being able to train, infact he passed another qualification while in hospital while he was in traction, it was so funny because he couldn't train his body so he said he was training his brain, anyway while all this was going on DY was ready to front the company with KK so PB was bought out, if you knew DY and KK you would understand that when they say your being bought out thats what happens, Now PB was disgusted with the behavior of K and DY with how they went about it and he made this very open with the public so the company had its name changed and then went on to say it had nothing to do with PB or ever had, that is why alot of article stated this, KK and DY are not to be messed with and so PB was pushed out,

PB washed his hands of it and stop being so open with the truth and then went on to start another supplement company Bioharzard UK and USA with Ian Harrison and Trevor Smith
which later another supp co was started called Nuclear Nutrition, in the mean time Paul had some serious issues he couldn't train and weight was dropping of him, his back was in a horrible state, he was taking pain killers by the bucket load to try and numb the pain so he could train, this was his down fall, he couldn't stand being a normal man, he did have some madness in him but they say there is a fine line between genius and madness, anyway truth is he died and many people said he was mad and was doing all sorts towards the end of his life and if any of the company's had to survive they had to break away from this image he had with this very out spoken guru, drugs and supplements dont go hand in hand in the world today,
I have pics somewhere of Ian and PB in one of their videos, i will dig it out for you to see,

Statement from Biohazard USA -
"Paul Borresen died due to an overdose of pain killers which were being used to control the back pain Paul had nearly all of the time. Paul had been complaining more than usual after his time spent sleeping on an airport floor and then a long cramped flight home a week before his death."



Many people tried to discredit him because of the connections they had with PB because it doesn't look good to have anything to do with such a outspoken guru, the man was years ahead of his time and when he was in his prime he was untouchable,

Also which is going to be really tricky to mention but i feel you need to know, PB had the biggest UGL in UK which is another reason why they had to separate themselves from him, he also got busted by Narcotics squad, PB tried to take on board what everyone was saying and stop being so open about his work but they couldn't silence him, now can you see why the Pro's he was advising had to distance themselves away from him? can you see why supplements co had to distances themselves?

I would call him a proper steroid guru, some people have practical knowledge. Some people have the schooling. Paul Borresen has both, not to mention a 285-pound physique that doesn't stray far from around 8% body fat! How many of today's "gurus" do you know that can make the same claim?Here are some mags he wrote for and his own books-
Anabolic Edge,-1,The Anabolic Edge 2001
Written by the legend PB, this masterpiece, if you had to pick one, would be the best because it details the combination of drugs, supplements and foods and how they interact “anabolically” with each other more thoroughly than any steroid book.

The Stack,- How To Stack Steroids
The “Stack Master” strikes again. But this time Paul devotes an entire book The Stack to this most fascinating subject. Now you’ll easily be certified by the post office as a “new zip code” once you try any one of the dozens of stacks Paul has used to “manufacture” the biggest bodybuilders in the world. Must be 21 to read! The most controversial steroid book on the market.

The Big Secret,
The governor (mag)
Testosterone magazine,
Pump Magazine

Here are some of his achievement's-
Masters degree in pharmacology || Batchelors degree in biochemistry || Over 200 published articles || Author of the Anabolic Edge & The Big Secret || Author of the soon to be released An end to all secrets || Founder of Chemical Warefare (No longer associated) || Founder of BIOHAZARD Creator of THE GOVERNOR || British Northeast Heavyweight Champion || Coached Hundreds of champions including the great but now bitter Dorian Yates. Currently coaching 5 Pro`s including Ian Harrison, along with 150 local and top level amateurs. Self proclaimed owner of "the biggest calves on the planet!!"

Anthony he didn't copy other peoples work and publish it and pass it off as his own work like many proclaim guru of todays world, he looked like a bodybuilder and ran his life like one, i have nothing to gain for my claims, i have nothing to sell or need new client and i don't have any magic pills for sale,i have no motive not like some on here.

if you don't believe it thats fine, but Ive done with your constantly trying discredit anything i say, all i can say is, results speak for themselves and in your own words you really are not "100% familiar" with whole process surrounding short cycling so i cant take anything you say with any credibility,

I have 18yrs worth of experience in this game and it took me yrs to find out what works for me, i made good solid gains from 3-4 months cycle but shortly afterwords i couldn't really keep gaining, things slowed down alot, i only built muscle in the first half of cycle, Paul B and DY team told me to try this way, i did and i started to build again, now over the years i swapped and changed with cycles but i always go back to this whole process priming,short cycling, diet and intense training, it works and it will work for many others, its worth trying,

results speak for themselves, you childish comments are making you look very unprofessional in my eyes trying to constant slag this way of cycling, one day you say it works next it doesn't,
I hope Ive opened your eyes alittle and you can take all this in because it is the truth, one last thing you may carry on trying to discredit everything anybody says but results speak for themselves and let people try it and see for themselves thats what i did with warrior and just look how much he changed,

We don't know everything about everything and sometimes we need to stop listen and learn, thinking your view is the only one with any credibility speaks volumes to me, we can all learn form everybody, when we use chemicals within the body we all react differently there is nothing set in stone,
__________________

Obviously I do not think that he could pass himself off like that. He failed miserably. EVERYONE who investigated him knows that he didn't have those credentials...he got caught in that lie by T- Nation, AnabolicXtreme, and his old buisness partners! He lied and got caught....EVERYONE in the AAS world knows it! Why are you denying it? You can clearly see that T- Nation researched him and found that he was lying, as did his old buisness partners and anabolicxtreme...all of them went on the record to say that PB was investigated by them and they found that he lied about his credentials. I can't see why you're denying this fact.
Can you find the post where I say that this method doesn't work? You're saying I contradict myself (which is by definition saying "A" and "not A" simultaneously). Can you post those comments from me?

Honestly...post the part where I say "Short Heavy Cycles do not work" because I can't remember saying that.

And as I explained, I didn't know how "YOU" were using those terms, not that I don't know what they mean. Just like you happen to use the word "study" to mean "anecdote" when 100% of the members here use that word to mean "medical study in a peer reviewed journal"...I was simply trying to be polite and get clarification...also, since it's your thread, how was I to know that you didn't have your own spin on PB's methods, and use terms differently?

Also...I notice that you keep posting his stats and degrees, yet those have all been discredited. Isn't the burden of proof now on you to prove that he has those credentials?

I mean...from the outside looking in it just appears that PB was a liar and a junkie, since 100% of the things he said have been discredited by several sources. Maybe his methods worked for a couple of people here (although since we don't even have bloodwork on that, we don't know if they actually recovered more quickly, and therefore we don't know if the method was actually more successful than any other)...but his methods were not used by anybody he claimed they were, and successful programs he wrote seemed to have been done by his partners and not him. I don't see how you can have upwards of 30 people, 2 seperate online magazines, and every buisness partner he ever had calling him a liar, and yet still believe him and that he trained all of those people.

As for his "stats"....an IFBB professional even stated that PB was a light-heavy and competed around 200lbs, and never made it anywhere near 285, certinly not in single digit bf%. Do you have any pics of PB to back up those claims of his stats? Seriously....the guy has been discredited by everyone who ever knew him....then he died of an OD. Isn't it more likely that he was a lying junkie, than everyone around him just conspired to lie about his for no reason?

[marcus300]

If there were any proof that he actually had any degrees it would lend more credence to all of those articles you copy and paste, Marcus. What college/university did he graduate from? His own partners said he was a lying sack of crap! I mean, did you know this dude personally?

pls reard why said people said what they did in my prev post, the man is dead and cant back it up nither can i i dont have his wifes number anymore so cant go digging,but Anthony knows were am coming from and is only trying to discredit the method, ive got videos of this man and Ian training he is hugh/ BBC did a programme yrs ago about his work with aids victims, llike ive said you have to understand why they didnt want anything to do with him and distance themselves,

Anthjony said everyone knows!! am afraid they dont know everyone who i speak to regarding Paul wether in UK or USA say different but they are close friends of Paul so they would know just like most in th UK do,

He was a true guro, he didnt copy other peoples work like some reported guro's around the world, he researched and played the game to the max,

To be far ive said it before its moved on so much since his day but he was the brains behind it, Anthony has an argumentative personanality because he thinks he is always right, one thing to note- take away PB take away all cliams ive said, there are many just on here who said short cycling works, good results,good bloodwork,good maintance, there are alot more things come with short cycling its the whole process, thats something Anthony doesnt understand, he admitted it he wasnt to familiar with it,

here is the post pls read it again and understand why, but i do think we should get back on track with the debate instead of trying to discredit a dead man, thats cheap!

I am sorry if i offended you by saying i think your jealous of Paul B but thats my opinion, my reasoning behind this is that you constant trying to discredit the whole concept of short cycling and then when we have debated short cycling and we cant argue anymore you start on something else like Paul B to try and discredit the theory, truth is you cant discredit this because so many people say it works great,

Also why i find myself not believing a word you say is because you contradict yourself so many times and one of the most reasons why i think you don't know what your talking about on this subject is you said you didn't understand it, i will quote -

1, "I'm not 100% familiar with the prime/burst as Marcus is using the terms."
if your not 100% familiar with prime and burst cycle how can you comment so much and think your right when truth is by your own words your not 100% familiar with the whole idea?
as soon as you said that i knew what i was dealing with, no disrespect intended,

2, i quote again "I am not criticizing the man himself, but rather an idea (Short Heavy Cycles) which has no scientific foundation" post 294You have constantly said that they are no good and the worse thing anyone could do but when i said the results speak for themselves and you cant knock many BB's results stating good results you come back with yet another wonderful statement and i quote -

"And I admit that short/heavy cycles work. I think they don't work as well as other (much safer) alternatives". post 299 one hand you state one thing and when proven wrong you contradict yourself by saying they work but now not as good as other methods!!


Your remarks about Paul B are ridicules, do you really think he could pass himself off without having said qualifications? could he hell as not, in the UK there was a programme on the BBC about Paul and his work with Aids victims and the use of AAS he had one patient who had his life extended by 5 yrs with Paul's work,do you really think he could have conned his way in? come on your an intelligent man? well i do have my doubt about that now tho!!

all the magazines he wrote for all his own publications and videos all the people he was advising, of course it was true, you just don't know the full story,, i will admit he was very outspoken and told it as it was and thats why he couldn't be seen having anything to do with DY because DY was going for the Weider contract and was trying to portray a certain image, Paul had no presences in that image DY was told to make statement that he never had anything to do with him ever, DY and PB were in contact nearly every day by phone, and the claims that DY never met are insane,

Paul set up a leading supplement company with Kerry Kayes and Brian Batcheldor in the UK, Paul was the brians behind it and produce the next generation proteins, in the side lines DY was there and it was decided that DY would endorse the product when he retired from the Mr O, Kery had known DY for the last 15yrs and Kerry and Paul was apart of DY's camp during his Mr O battles, everyone close to anyone in that camp knows the truth and in them days i was being advised by PB and DY camps on various issues, i know personally the truth, i only live a few miles away from the headquarters of the name company what PB,KK and DY owned,

what happened next was PB had some serious issues going on he broke his back and couldn't train or run the business, remember this guy was a monster and live bodybuilding so you can understand the frustration regarding not being able to train, infact he passed another qualification while in hospital while he was in traction, it was so funny because he couldn't train his body so he said he was training his brain, anyway while all this was going on DY was ready to front the company with KK so PB was bought out, if you knew DY and KK you would understand that when they say your being bought out thats what happens, Now PB was disgusted with the behavior of K and DY with how they went about it and he made this very open with the public so the company had its name changed and then went on to say it had nothing to do with PB or ever had, that is why alot of article stated this, KK and DY are not to be messed with and so PB was pushed out,

PB washed his hands of it and stop being so open with the truth and then went on to start another supplement company Bioharzard UK and USA with Ian Harrison and Trevor Smith
which later another supp co was started called Nuclear Nutrition, in the mean time Paul had some serious issues he couldn't train and weight was dropping of him, his back was in a horrible state, he was taking pain killers by the bucket load to try and numb the pain so he could train, this was his down fall, he couldn't stand being a normal man, he did have some madness in him but they say there is a fine line between genius and madness, anyway truth is he died and many people said he was mad and was doing all sorts towards the end of his life and if any of the company's had to survive they had to break away from this image he had with this very out spoken guru, drugs and supplements dont go hand in hand in the world today,
I have pics somewhere of Ian and PB in one of their videos, i will dig it out for you to see,

Statement from Biohazard USA -
"Paul Borresen died due to an overdose of pain killers which were being used to control the back pain Paul had nearly all of the time. Paul had been complaining more than usual after his time spent sleeping on an airport floor and then a long cramped flight home a week before his death."



Many people tried to discredit him because of the connections they had with PB because it doesn't look good to have anything to do with such a outspoken guru, the man was years ahead of his time and when he was in his prime he was untouchable,

Also which is going to be really tricky to mention but i feel you need to know, PB had the biggest UGL in UK which is another reason why they had to separate themselves from him, he also got busted by Narcotics squad, PB tried to take on board what everyone was saying and stop being so open about his work but they couldn't silence him, now can you see why the Pro's he was advising had to distance themselves away from him? can you see why supplements co had to distances themselves?

I would call him a proper steroid guru, some people have practical knowledge. Some people have the schooling. Paul Borresen has both, not to mention a 285-pound physique that doesn't stray far from around 8% body fat! How many of today's "gurus" do you know that can make the same claim?Here are some mags he wrote for and his own books-
Anabolic Edge,-1,The Anabolic Edge 2001
Written by the legend PB, this masterpiece, if you had to pick one, would be the best because it details the combination of drugs, supplements and foods and how they interact “anabolically” with each other more thoroughly than any steroid book.

The Stack,- How To Stack Steroids
The “Stack Master” strikes again. But this time Paul devotes an entire book The Stack to this most fascinating subject. Now you’ll easily be certified by the post office as a “new zip code” once you try any one of the dozens of stacks Paul has used to “manufacture” the biggest bodybuilders in the world. Must be 21 to read! The most controversial steroid book on the market.

The Big Secret,
The governor (mag)
Testosterone magazine,
Pump Magazine

Here are some of his achievement's-
Masters degree in pharmacology || Batchelors degree in biochemistry || Over 200 published articles || Author of the Anabolic Edge & The Big Secret || Author of the soon to be released An end to all secrets || Founder of Chemical Warefare (No longer associated) || Founder of BIOHAZARD Creator of THE GOVERNOR || British Northeast Heavyweight Champion || Coached Hundreds of champions including the great but now bitter Dorian Yates. Currently coaching 5 Pro`s including Ian Harrison, along with 150 local and top level amateurs. Self proclaimed owner of "the biggest calves on the planet!!"

Anthony he didn't copy other peoples work and publish it and pass it off as his own work like many proclaim guru of todays world, he looked like a bodybuilder and ran his life like one, i have nothing to gain for my claims, i have nothing to sell or need new client and i don't have any magic pills for sale,i have no motive not like some on here.

if you don't believe it thats fine, but Ive done with your constantly trying discredit anything i say, all i can say is, results speak for themselves and in your own words you really are not "100% familiar" with whole process surrounding short cycling so i cant take anything you say with any credibility,

I have 18yrs worth of experience in this game and it took me yrs to find out what works for me, i made good solid gains from 3-4 months cycle but shortly afterwords i couldn't really keep gaining, things slowed down alot, i only built muscle in the first half of cycle, Paul B and DY team told me to try this way, i did and i started to build again, now over the years i swapped and changed with cycles but i always go back to this whole process priming,short cycling, diet and intense training, it works and it will work for many others, its worth trying,

results speak for themselves, you childish comments are making you look very unprofessional in my eyes trying to constant slag this way of cycling, one day you say it works next it doesn't,
I hope Ive opened your eyes alittle and you can take all this in because it is the truth, one last thing you may carry on trying to discredit everything anybody says but results speak for themselves and let people try it and see for themselves thats what i did with warrior and just look how much he changed,

We don't know everything about everything and sometimes we need to stop listen and learn, thinking your view is the only one with any credibility speaks volumes to me, we can all learn form everybody, when we use chemicals within the body we all react differently there is nothing set in stone,
__________________

[scriptfactory]

We are really getting off track here. Paul B was a junkie and pretty crazy. I just don't know anyone with a doctorate that is ignorant enough to say "our bodies get allergic to themselves and that is why we age..." That doesn't even make any sense. Doesn't mean he wasn't right at least part of the time.

How about the claim that these kind of cycles help you recover faster and keep more gains (which is the most interesting part for me) than when utilizing other methods? Do you have anything other than personal accounts?

[Property of Steroid.com]

pls reard why said people said what they did in my prev post, the man is dead and cant back it up nither can i i dont have his wifes number anymore so cant go digging,but Anthony knows were am coming from and is only trying to discredit the method, ive got videos of this man and Ian training he is hugh/ BBC did a programme yrs ago about his work with aids victims, llike ive said you have to understand why they didnt want anything to do with him and distance themselves,

Anthjony said everyone knows!! am afraid they dont know everyone who i speak to regarding Paul wether in UK or USA say different but they are close friends of Paul so they would know just like most in th UK do,

He was a true guro, he didnt copy other peoples work like some reported guro's around the world, he researched and played the game to the max,

To be far ive said it before its moved on so much since his day but he was the brains behind it, Anthony has an argumentative personanality because he thinks he is always right, one thing to note- take away PB take away all cliams ive said, there are many just on here who said short cycling works, good results,good bloodwork,good maintance, there are alot more things come with short cycling its the whole process, thats something Anthony doesnt understand, he admitted it he wasnt to familiar with it,

here is the post pls read it again and understand why, but i do think we should get back on track with the debate instead of trying to discredit a dead man, thats cheap!

I am sorry if i offended you by saying i think your jealous of Paul B but thats my opinion, my reasoning behind this is that you constant trying to discredit the whole concept of short cycling and then when we have debated short cycling and we cant argue anymore you start on something else like Paul B to try and discredit the theory, truth is you cant discredit this because so many people say it works great,

Also why i find myself not believing a word you say is because you contradict yourself so many times and one of the most reasons why i think you don't know what your talking about on this subject is you said you didn't understand it, i will quote -

1, "I'm not 100% familiar with the prime/burst as Marcus is using the terms."
if your not 100% familiar with prime and burst cycle how can you comment so much and think your right when truth is by your own words your not 100% familiar with the whole idea?
as soon as you said that i knew what i was dealing with, no disrespect intended,

2, i quote again "I am not criticizing the man himself, but rather an idea (Short Heavy Cycles) which has no scientific foundation" post 294You have constantly said that they are no good and the worse thing anyone could do but when i said the results speak for themselves and you cant knock many BB's results stating good results you come back with yet another wonderful statement and i quote -

"And I admit that short/heavy cycles work. I think they don't work as well as other (much safer) alternatives". post 299 one hand you state one thing and when proven wrong you contradict yourself by saying they work but now not as good as other methods!!


Your remarks about Paul B are ridicules, do you really think he could pass himself off without having said qualifications? could he hell as not, in the UK there was a programme on the BBC about Paul and his work with Aids victims and the use of AAS he had one patient who had his life extended by 5 yrs with Paul's work,do you really think he could have conned his way in? come on your an intelligent man? well i do have my doubt about that now tho!!

all the magazines he wrote for all his own publications and videos all the people he was advising, of course it was true, you just don't know the full story,, i will admit he was very outspoken and told it as it was and thats why he couldn't be seen having anything to do with DY because DY was going for the Weider contract and was trying to portray a certain image, Paul had no presences in that image DY was told to make statement that he never had anything to do with him ever, DY and PB were in contact nearly every day by phone, and the claims that DY never met are insane,

Paul set up a leading supplement company with Kerry Kayes and Brian Batcheldor in the UK, Paul was the brians behind it and produce the next generation proteins, in the side lines DY was there and it was decided that DY would endorse the product when he retired from the Mr O, Kery had known DY for the last 15yrs and Kerry and Paul was apart of DY's camp during his Mr O battles, everyone close to anyone in that camp knows the truth and in them days i was being advised by PB and DY camps on various issues, i know personally the truth, i only live a few miles away from the headquarters of the name company what PB,KK and DY owned,

what happened next was PB had some serious issues going on he broke his back and couldn't train or run the business, remember this guy was a monster and live bodybuilding so you can understand the frustration regarding not being able to train, infact he passed another qualification while in hospital while he was in traction, it was so funny because he couldn't train his body so he said he was training his brain, anyway while all this was going on DY was ready to front the company with KK so PB was bought out, if you knew DY and KK you would understand that when they say your being bought out thats what happens, Now PB was disgusted with the behavior of K and DY with how they went about it and he made this very open with the public so the company had its name changed and then went on to say it had nothing to do with PB or ever had, that is why alot of article stated this, KK and DY are not to be messed with and so PB was pushed out,

PB washed his hands of it and stop being so open with the truth and then went on to start another supplement company Bioharzard UK and USA with Ian Harrison and Trevor Smith
which later another supp co was started called Nuclear Nutrition, in the mean time Paul had some serious issues he couldn't train and weight was dropping of him, his back was in a horrible state, he was taking pain killers by the bucket load to try and numb the pain so he could train, this was his down fall, he couldn't stand being a normal man, he did have some madness in him but they say there is a fine line between genius and madness, anyway truth is he died and many people said he was mad and was doing all sorts towards the end of his life and if any of the company's had to survive they had to break away from this image he had with this very out spoken guru, drugs and supplements dont go hand in hand in the world today,
I have pics somewhere of Ian and PB in one of their videos, i will dig it out for you to see,

Statement from Biohazard USA -
"Paul Borresen died due to an overdose of pain killers which were being used to control the back pain Paul had nearly all of the time. Paul had been complaining more than usual after his time spent sleeping on an airport floor and then a long cramped flight home a week before his death."



Many people tried to discredit him because of the connections they had with PB because it doesn't look good to have anything to do with such a outspoken guru, the man was years ahead of his time and when he was in his prime he was untouchable,

Also which is going to be really tricky to mention but i feel you need to know, PB had the biggest UGL in UK which is another reason why they had to separate themselves from him, he also got busted by Narcotics squad, PB tried to take on board what everyone was saying and stop being so open about his work but they couldn't silence him, now can you see why the Pro's he was advising had to distance themselves away from him? can you see why supplements co had to distances themselves?

I would call him a proper steroid guru, some people have practical knowledge. Some people have the schooling. Paul Borresen has both, not to mention a 285-pound physique that doesn't stray far from around 8% body fat! How many of today's "gurus" do you know that can make the same claim?Here are some mags he wrote for and his own books-
Anabolic Edge,-1,The Anabolic Edge 2001
Written by the legend PB, this masterpiece, if you had to pick one, would be the best because it details the combination of drugs, supplements and foods and how they interact “anabolically” with each other more thoroughly than any steroid book.

The Stack,- How To Stack Steroids
The “Stack Master” strikes again. But this time Paul devotes an entire book The Stack to this most fascinating subject. Now you’ll easily be certified by the post office as a “new zip code” once you try any one of the dozens of stacks Paul has used to “manufacture” the biggest bodybuilders in the world. Must be 21 to read! The most controversial steroid book on the market.

The Big Secret,
The governor (mag)
Testosterone magazine,
Pump Magazine

Here are some of his achievement's-
Masters degree in pharmacology || Batchelors degree in biochemistry || Over 200 published articles || Author of the Anabolic Edge & The Big Secret || Author of the soon to be released An end to all secrets || Founder of Chemical Warefare (No longer associated) || Founder of BIOHAZARD Creator of THE GOVERNOR || British Northeast Heavyweight Champion || Coached Hundreds of champions including the great but now bitter Dorian Yates. Currently coaching 5 Pro`s including Ian Harrison, along with 150 local and top level amateurs. Self proclaimed owner of "the biggest calves on the planet!!"

Anthony he didn't copy other peoples work and publish it and pass it off as his own work like many proclaim guru of todays world, he looked like a bodybuilder and ran his life like one, i have nothing to gain for my claims, i have nothing to sell or need new client and i don't have any magic pills for sale,i have no motive not like some on here.

if you don't believe it thats fine, but Ive done with your constantly trying discredit anything i say, all i can say is, results speak for themselves and in your own words you really are not "100% familiar" with whole process surrounding short cycling so i cant take anything you say with any credibility,

I have 18yrs worth of experience in this game and it took me yrs to find out what works for me, i made good solid gains from 3-4 months cycle but shortly afterwords i couldn't really keep gaining, things slowed down alot, i only built muscle in the first half of cycle, Paul B and DY team told me to try this way, i did and i started to build again, now over the years i swapped and changed with cycles but i always go back to this whole process priming,short cycling, diet and intense training, it works and it will work for many others, its worth trying,

results speak for themselves, you childish comments are making you look very unprofessional in my eyes trying to constant slag this way of cycling, one day you say it works next it doesn't,
I hope Ive opened your eyes alittle and you can take all this in because it is the truth, one last thing you may carry on trying to discredit everything anybody says but results speak for themselves and let people try it and see for themselves thats what i did with warrior and just look how much he changed,

We don't know everything about everything and sometimes we need to stop listen and learn, thinking your view is the only one with any credibility speaks volumes to me, we can all learn form everybody, when we use chemicals within the body we all react differently there is nothing set in stone,
__________________

There's not much debate, honestly. The claim that people recover more quickly or hold on to more gains is not really varifiable without bloodwork to back the claim up, and you don't actually have any bloodwork to show us. As for the idea that his theories worked for his clients, that's been discredited by his old buisness partners, and as for them working for him, the guy claimed to be 285lbs with 8% bodyfat, yet he competed at around 200lbs....his buisness partners said he was in terrible shape at 245, at best. I don't even see what's left to debate. Even if everyone distanced themselves for political reasons, it still doesn't make sense that T- Nation would say that they found out that he lied about his credentials....they're not based in the UK, and they actually had to pull an article about him, because they found out that he didn't have any credentials. And T -Nation has had a UGL on their staff (Bruce Kneller was Brock Strasser, aka RSOC, the lab)....so they weren't trying to distance themselves from him for that reason...

(Also) Important: Can you do me a favor and post (quote) the comments from me where I say that short/heavy cycles do not work? I'm just kind of forgetful and can't recall saying that they do not work....

And once again, I DID understand the terms, I was just making sure I was talking about the same thing that you were talking about. Just like when you claimed to have studies, and it turned out that you had ZERO studies, because you were using the term to mean something that no other member here uses the term to mean. I was clarifying the definition before I went on, and was trying to be polite about it...notice that I said I don't know how "YOU" were using the term. I was very specific. Also, could you point out my contradiction(s) for me? In other words, quote (and link) to where I say something is the case, and is also not the case. I think you're using contradiction incorrectly (as you did with the word "study").

And again, as for being jealous, basically everything I've written has outsold everything PB has written, and frankly, my theories and articles have been reposted more than his...so I mean...claims that I'm jealous is kind of a weird topic...why would someone who is one of the top 1-2 authors in the field be jealous of someone who is barely in the top 5 (in terms of sales figures, etc...)?

And it's a cop-out to say that we can't discuss his credentials because he's dead and that's trying to discredit a dead man...I mean...the guy claimed to be 285 ripped, yet nobody will vouch for that, and he competed at 200lbs...It's true that he's dead, but that doesn't mean we owe members here anything less than the truth about him.

[marcus300]

We are really getting off track here. Paul B was a junkie and pretty crazy. I just don't know anyone with a doctorate that is ignorant enough to say "our bodies get allergic to themselves and that is why we age..." That doesn't even make any sense. Doesn't mean he wasn't right at least part of the time.

How about the claim that these kind of cycles help you recover faster and keep more gains (which is the most interesting part for me) than when utilizing other methods? Do you have anything other than personal accounts?

I dont have nothing more than real bodybuilders sending me their reports of how they got on just like Warrior,s, Warrior was like Anthony didnt believe then he educated himself and tried it and found out what can happen,

You have to remember that when you shut the body down for 3-4 months cycles its hard to fully recover or at least takes some time, while its taking its time maintanace of the new muscle slides away because you cant get yoiur system back up and running as fast to support the muscle, so noramlly they go back on, vicous circle and if everybody is honest with themselves how much do you gained and keep after you have recovered?

With short cycling and when i mention that i mean the whole process of priming and everything else whats designed for the BB, with short cycling you are only shutting yourself down for a short peroid of time so it is better to recover from, many report it and ive experienced it, if recovery was not a problem we would be on yr long and then bounce back no problem, but it is.

Would you rather shut yourself down for 3-4 month or 2-4 wks? which one would you say would you recover better from?

Tell you what try it and see for yourself but understand the whole process first,

[Property of Steroid.com]

Tell you what try it and see for yourself but understand the whole process first,

Why don't you repost all of the relevant articles here in a seperate thread? I think that people should see everything so they can decide for themselves...also, you keep saying that I don't understand this or that, but really, I've read everything the man's written...I think I agree with Meuller, in that he's charismatic, but not trustworthy on anabolics.

I mean...his cycles are kind of silly when you post them in full...he reccomends 40mgs of Nolvadex per day, a diuretic, sometimes anti-biotics, Sleeping Pills, etc...just...kind of out there stuff...

Then he says winny is more powerful than anadrol ...etc..

[marcus300]

There's not much debate, honestly. The claim that people recover more quickly or hold on to more gains is not really varifiable without bloodwork to back the claim up, and you don't actually have any bloodwork to show us. As for the idea that his theories worked for his clients, that's been discredited by his old buisness partners, and as for them working for him, the guy claimed to be 285lbs with 8% bodyfat, yet he competed at around 200lbs....his buisness partners said he was in terrible shape at 245, at best. I don't even see what's left to debate. Even if everyone distanced themselves for political reasons, it still doesn't make sense that T- Nation would say that they found out that he lied about his credentials....they're not based in the UK, and they actually had to pull an article about him, because they found out that he didn't have any credentials. And T -Nation has had a UGL on their staff (Bruce Kneller was Brock Strasser, aka RSOC, the lab)....so they weren't trying to distance themselves from him for that reason...

(Also) Important: Can you do me a favor and post (quote) the comments from me where I say that short/heavy cycles do not work? I'm just kind of forgetful and can't recall saying that they do not work....

And once again, I DID understand the terms, I was just making sure I was talking about the same thing that you were talking about. Just like when you claimed to have studies, and it turned out that you had ZERO studies, because you were using the term to mean something that no other member here uses the term to mean. I was clarifying the definition before I went on, and was trying to be polite about it...notice that I said I don't know how "YOU" were using the term. I was very specific. Also, could you point out my contradiction(s) for me? In other words, quote (and link) to where I say something is the case, and is also not the case. I think you're using contradiction incorrectly (as you did with the word "study").

And again, as for being jealous, basically everything I've written has outsold everything PB has written, and frankly, my theories and articles have been reposted more than his...so I mean...claims that I'm jealous is kind of a weird topic...why would someone who is one of the top 1-2 authors in the field be jealous of someone who is barely in the top 5 (in terms of sales figures, etc...)?
And it's a cop-out to say that we can't discuss his credentials because he's dead and that's trying to discredit a dead man...I mean...the guy claimed to be 285 ripped, yet nobody will vouch for that, and he competed at 200lbs...It's true that he's dead, but that doesn't mean we owe members here anything less than the truth about him.

Thats how you come over to me amd to be trueful about 5-6 other members aswell VIA pm, we all must be wrong on our conclusion about you,

His PB work was his own not copied like many people claiming other peoples work

You have to understand the whole process Anthony and in your own words you are not 100% familiar with priming and short cycling so am afraid i take nothing what you say with any credability,

I dont want to carry on going back and forth with you, you wont have it so fine, all i ask is try it and see for yourself, if you need any help understanding the priming PM me i will help you out,

[twiney]

Advanced Chemical Warfare
An Interview With Paul Borresen
By Nelson Montana






The following interview is just that, an interview. We included it because we find it interesting that anyone would use such horrendously large amounts of drugs (okay, so we're sort of like the people who pull over to watch the aftermath of a car accident). In no way do we advocate such dosages, and if you were to ask each of us here at Testosterone individually, we'd probably disagree with a lot of what Paul Borresen says about steroids . Nevertheless, what he has to say makes for damn interesting reading.


TC and I got together last week and were throwing around some ideas for keeping Testosterone on the cutting edge of bodybuilding information. We spoke of upcoming articles, new training techniques, and discussed research on state-of-the-art supplements, as well as continual studies on existing products. It was easy to examine the strong points that exist within the magazine. But after patting ourselves on the back for a while, it was time to take a cold, hard look at what could be made better.

At one point, TC posed three questions. One, "Who would you be most interested in interviewing?" Two, "If there was one person you would like to see contributing to Testosterone, who would it be?" And three, "Who is the most over-the-edge, balls-to-the-wall individual you know of that you think our readers would like to hear from?" Without hesitation, I replied, "I can answer all three of those questions with the same name?Paul Borresen."

To call renegade pharmacologist Paul Borresen an authority on drug usage is an enormous understatement. When it comes to firsthand experience, Paul may very well be the authority! I can't think of too many people who have pushed the pharmacological envelope as far as Paul. Yet, what makes this remarkable man so different than many of the pro bodybuilders who merely stay on whatever gear they can get for as long as they can get it, Paul is one of the most knowledgeable people around in the science of anabolic steroids.

University trained, Paul received his bachelor's degree in biochemistry. He graduated with first-class honors. He then went on to get his master's degree in pharmacology, specializing in the study of receptor sites and their function. He's had his work published in medical journals throughout the world, written several books, and had over 200 articles appear in magazines on the various aspects of steroid use and their application to bodybuilding. When some of the top professionals need advice on how to arrange their stacks and cycles for a major show, they call Paul. That list of top professionals?according to Paul?even includes a fellow by the name of Dorian Yates.

Some people have practical knowledge. Some people have the schooling. Paul Borresen has both, not to mention a 285-pound physique that doesn't stray far from around 8% body fat! How many of today's "gurus" do you know that can make the same claim?

If you're opposed to the radical usage of performance-enhancement drugs, then move on?get the heck out of here. This article isn't for you. For those of you with a more daring nature who'd like to learn from this particular master, you may proceed?with caution.

Class is now in session.


NM: First, Paul, how are you feeling? I heard that you suffered an accident recently.

PB: Yes, I took a nasty fall and was laid up for four-and-a-half months. It required major surgery. For a long time, I was in a full body brace. While in the hospital, I went down to 170 pounds! I recovered quickly but, of course, I was receiving glutamine, Deca , and growth hormone ! It was no problem getting it into the hospital. Since then, I've entered some area contests and won, but my goal is to come back from having a broken back and win the Nationals.

NM: Any ********** substances that you've been experimenting with?

PB: Whenever there's anything new, I'll try it! You know of the new oils used to inflate a muscle, like Synthol? Well, I've put together a combination of oils in my lab that contains nandrolone , benzyl alcohol, and silica gel. It provides a permanent growth due to the fact that the silica coats the muscle fibers. But it also gives you 300 milligrams of gear per milliliter. It's really amazing, but it can be overdone, as in the case of Ernie Taylor. Have you seen his triceps?

NM: Of course. They're so freaky, they look "fake."

PB: They don't look right. That's an example of an overdone local effect. As far as anything else new, I've been experimenting with prostaglandins since '95. When I won the Northwest Championship, I had six milliliters of Cavajet, which is something that's used to get an erection. But I didn't need it there, so I put it in my arms and shoulders! I've been working with people using Prostaglandins before going to bed at night, and we've seen phenomenal results. They can also be used to provide "local" enlargement. I use it to smooth out my symmetry.

NM: Were there any side effects?

PB: I don't feel that the claims of bad side effects are all that genuine. If you look at the risks and side effects of pharmacology as a whole, prostaglandins fall pretty low down on the list.

NM: What's the typical drug regime of some of the people you coach?

PB: I'm coaching people who use two thousand milligrams of gear each day. They're very big. If you're going to take that level of anabolics, I believe in very short courses?thirty days, at the most, before your body realizes what happened. I'm a firm believer that receptor sites up-regulate. When you do about 5000 milligrams a week, they respond unbelievably. People are going up a pound a day for 18 days straight.

NM: So by using super-physiologic dosages and keeping cycles short, you won't need to increase the dosages with each successive cycle?

PB: You should need less! It's like training. A newcomer does 16 sets and makes gains. The more advanced someone is, the less amount of sets they need to do. I only do about four or five sets. I'm helping Ian Harrison prepare for the Arnold, and he needs even fewer sets per workout.

NM: How long of a wait do you recommend before starting another course?

PB: At least 15 days, which comes to 21 days after your last shot. But if you wait too much longer than three weeks, you're going backwards in your progress. You'll spend time "making up" for what you've lost, even if you use anti-catabolics.

NM: Tell me a little about your company. How did it get started?

PB: A few years back, my wife and I started a company called Chemical Nutrition. Unfortunately, we took on a partner of dubious integrity. It got so bad that he threatened to put me in a body bag! I ended that relationship and started Biohazard. We've been growing very quickly in the UK, and I'm glad to say that my ex-partner's business is declining badly. I don't follow a business "strategy." I focus on culture. I want to make the best products. I won't bullshit anyone or let anyone work for me who isn't honest. I have an MBA degree, and my business philosophy is not to build an empire; rather, we want to build many castles. I want to make money, but I have to look at myself in the mirror every day. I have to respect what I see.

NM: What is the most unique Biohazard product?

PB: We have something called Ravenger 5, which is a special grade of protein powder. It has the exact amino acid make-up, in proprietary order, of human muscle?the only product of its kind. It took a lot of work getting the proper ratios required. We finally came up with a combination of whey, egg albumin, soy isolate, and wheat gluten. The glutamine is not a free form because protein works best in a natural peptide chain. I'm not a big fan of aminos in free form.

NM: You've been outspoken in the past about professional bodybuilders. You made some statements recently concerning Paul Dillett...

PB: I have nothing personal against him. He doesn't train all that hard. He's very lazy. I don't like it when bodybuilders rely on massive amounts of gear and don't train correctly or look after their health. Everyone I work with uses high androgens, and we take certain precautions. I have them all on glycerin. It reduces water and blood pressure. It's an indigestible carb, which causes water to be drawn from the surrounding tissues like the skin. It also increases vascularity.

NM: What is your current stack?

PB: For the first ten days, I take 1000 mg of Sustanon a day. Days 11 to 20, I take 800 mg of Deca, 400 mg of Primobolan , and 600 mg of test propionate a day. Days 21 to 30, I do 400 mg of propionate, 200 mg of Winstrol , and four of my Triple X capsules, which are a homemade combination of Dinatropinol, T3, and oral insulin . I also take a 30-IU shot of insulin every time I eat a meal.

NM: Gee, is that all?

PB: That's what it takes. I want to make the most massive gains possible. I've gained 94 pounds in the last five months. Oh, I almost forgot?I also use growth hormone four days at a time, which is the way a child produces it, in four-day spurts. It doesn't work as well if you stay on it all the time. Consistent use suppresses your natural GH secretion, plus you build up a tolerance to its effects. I use 12 IUs of GH each day I use it.

NM: No cycling down the dosages of the steroid stack?

PB: No, I just stop. I don't feel that there's much benefit from cycling down. By distancing the shots and the half-life of the drugs, a "cycle down" occurs naturally. I want to clean out as soon as possible. When people stick in low levels of gear in order to "bridge," they're not clearing anything.

NM: Any anti-estrogens?

PB: Aminoglutathiamide is terrific when used the last ten days before a show. It makes you freaky hard. It's a pretty risky drug, however. The ACTH [Adrenal Corticol Tropic Hormone] kickback can create a bigger problem than what you started with. It's a gamble. I use Tamoxifen , 40 mg a day before bed, if I start to get too puffy.

NM: I noticed that you don't use any orals.

PB: For what I use, it wouldn't be healthy. I would hate to take 2,000 mg of 2-mg Anavar tablets!

NM: Definitely not practical. No veterinarian steroids?

PB: No. One thing I've learned from my studies in pharmacology is that mammalian physiology may be similar, but there are species differences. A veterinarian drug is developed through veterinarian research by companies that design it for animals. There aren't any studies of their effectiveness in humans. You need much higher doses than the proper human equivalent. A dog's testosterone would work in a human, just not as effectively. Since I can't control what's compatible and what isn't, I won't use them.

NM: Is there really any way of detecting counterfeits?

PB: It's so easy to fake the ampoules and boxes. Whenever you see an expos? of what is fake and how a "real" steroid should look, the counterfeiters just copy the "real" one. There are a few tricks. For example, Primo shouldn't fall out when you turn the box upside down.

NM: Unless the dealer has pulled the vial out a few times.

PB: That's a good point. In that case, it could be real, but you'd think it was fake. There's just no way of knowing. Some guys over here copied the pink pentagon Thai D-bol and put 5 mg of clenbuterol in them.

NM: Five milligrams?! My God, did anyone die?

PB: There were nine reported deaths. I took one, and went into the hospital.

NM: What's your present association with Dorian Yates?

PB: I take a phone call from Dorian every couple of weeks about technical matters. He'll usually have me come down to his house and ask me about various drugs. I showed him how to use growth hormone and IGF. I helped him with his DNP usage for his last Olympia show. I can honestly say that DNP can produce a condition that's unbelievable, but you've got to get it right! I find it horrendous. My temperature went up to 103 degrees. I was sick, and it felt like I was on fire.

NM: So in the future, will you just stick to using clen ?

PB: No, I'd still use the DNP. I'll just suffer. It can make you lose five pounds of fat in a week. My waist is 31 inches. That's also one benefit of being in the hospital. I had to have two ribs removed, which made my waist slimmer. Cher had a similar surgical procedure done on her to produce a longer torso look. I love it!

NM: What is the best steroid, in your opinion?

PB: If I had to recommend just one, I'd have to say that Deca has the best risk to benefit ratio. But my absolute favorite drug is Primobolan.

NM: I love Primo, too. People think it's weak because it doesn't produce water weight. Deca, on the other hand, bloats me as much as straight testosterone.

PB: You're telling me! Deca is very bloating. Not all tests cause as much water retention. But some people seem to go for that bloat, don't they? They equate it with more size.

NM: What drugs don't you like?

PB: I don't like testosterone cypionate . It's a very raw drug. It also makes you depressed. Anadrol is a shit drug. The fact that it's a 50-mg tablet tells you how weak it is.

NM: I've often made that same point, but it's amazing how many people don't "get" it. The low-dosed drugs, like Winstrol, build the most muscle.

PB: Winstrol is a very potent tissue-building drug in the truest sense! As far as effectiveness in building muscle, 50 mg of Winny tabs will blow 50 mg of Anadrol right out of the water!

NM: Thank you! It's nice to know I'm not alone in that evaluation.

PB: It's so obvious. Anadrol is designed to correct anemia. It builds red blood cells. It does not build muscle. It may help at the end of a course to "fill up" on blood, which may help you to hold on to the gained weight. It's a poor man's EPO [erythropoietin]. If I wanted to make a lot of money, I'd design a drug and call it Super-bol 5,000,000! Everyone will think it's really strong!

People have so much of this stuff wrong. They think that Primo's weak, when it's actually very strong. They say that Anadrol is powerful, when it's actually very weak. Cypionate is more popular than enanthate , but the enanthate is terrific and cyp is crap. They draw conclusions without really understanding basic pharmacology. People should be using the finer, sophisticated drugs like Primo and Winstrol, not cypionates and the veterinarian products. It's so absurd!

NM: Does it make sense not to stack too many different steroids?

PB: All steroids compete with each other. That's why I say to take Sus for ten days, then Deca for ten days, and so on. Proviron is thought to be an anti-estrogen, but it's really an anti-androgen. Clomid is an underrated anti-estrogen.

NM: How does Clomid differ from Cyclofenil ?

PB: Cyclofenil is a weak estrogen. Even if it competes for estrogen sites, some might get through. Clomid removes the estrogen, so it's much more effective.

NM: Who's the most outrageous steroid abuser you've ever known?

PB: I'd love to say, but I can't.

NM: You don't have to name names.

PB: Okay, the craziest thing that I've ever seen was done by a British pro. He takes a 100-ml bottle and sticks whatever he can get into it, no matter what. Deca, cyp, Equipoise , anything! He'll then take a five-ml shot of that every three hours.

NM: Wow!

PB: He'll also put in ten mg of propionate every day into specific body parts. He doesn't consider that a part of his stack because it's "locating." He does a total of at least 60 shots a day.

NM: That's mind-boggling. How does he look?

PB: Pretty ****ing awesome!

NM: No doubt! Paul, are there any last comments that you'd like to make?

PB: I just want to be able to provide accurate information and sell products that I know are effective. My motto is, "Ignorance kills?let's kill ignorance." I honestly believe that if we give the people the right information, we'll build this sport. There are a lot of assholes with too much power in our sport!

NM: I agree. We're doing what we can on this end. I hope that you'll be able to be a regular contributor to Testosterone. Your expertise is invaluable, and I'm sure that our readers will enjoy what you have to say.

PB: I'd love to write for you guys, and providing honest information to people who care is the right reason for doing so.

NM: Paul, I know that there's still so much we could talk about. Let's do this again sometime.

PB: That'd be great.


Whew! Did anybody out there get hurt? I'm sure that I don't have to offer a disclaimer to the drug dosages that Paul has advocated. This is obviously for the most advanced bodybuilder with extensive experience in chemical assistance. Nevertheless, Paul's comprehension of the subject is unquestionably vast, and I'm sure that he's left more than a few people with their heads spinning.

Class dismissed.

[scriptfactory]

Why don't you repost all of the relevant articles here in a seperate thread? I think that people should see everything so they can decide for themselves...also, you keep saying that I don't understand this or that, but really, I've read everything the man's written...I think I agree with Meuller, in that he's charismatic, but not trustworthy on anabolics.

I mean...his cycles are kind of silly when you post them in full...he reccomends 40mgs of Nolvadex per day, a diuretic, sometimes anti-biotics, Sleeping Pills, etc...just...kind of out there stuff...

From what I understand (and hope) Marcus isn't advocating PB cycles, just something based on his ideas. Those cycles I read about are retarded, to say the least.

Then he says winny is more powerful than anadrol...etc..

I remember that.

[marcus300]

Why don't you repost all of the relevant articles here in a seperate thread? I think that people should see everything so they can decide for themselves...also, you keep saying that I don't understand this or that, but really, I've read everything the man's written...I think I agree with Meuller, in that he's charismatic, but not trustworthy on anabolics.

I mean...his cycles are kind of silly when you post them in full...he reccomends 40mgs of Nolvadex per day, a diuretic, sometimes anti-biotics, Sleeping Pills, etc...just...kind of out there stuff...

Then he says winny is more powerful than anadrol...etc..

Anthony for pitty sake the method as moved on from 10 yrs ago, ive told you this many times

[Warrior]

(Also) Important: Can you do me a favor and post (quote) the comments from me where I say that short/heavy cycles do not work? I'm just kind of forgetful and can't recall saying that they do not work....

From searching this thread:

I'm not sold on this method being superior to any other, really...I have a friend who conducted a few interviews with PB, and his asessment was that the guy was smart and charismatic, but that his methods aren't really too sound.

Anthony, dude - forget PB for a moment and look at the theory Marcus has presented (and Paul's research). The theory - not the people serving you the info. You have a lot of time invested into this subject and instead of specelation and attacks on a dead man's character - why not try and dive into the idea of priming and short burst cycling? Even if you don't respect Paul or Marcus, respect the idea; humor it long enought to find us some supportive or contradicting evidense as to why we shouldn't do this - or how to best maximize the principles.

Damn dude - this could become a good topic for you to write on should BC help publish another text

I think its been in our face for a long time. Prime to get the body thristy for growth - as it is after an intense cutting phase... and keep cycles brief to maximize recovery post cycle. Why is it so common to look on these forums today and see 16-20+ week cycles...? I think this stuff has evolved in the wrong direction personally.

I also think the real thing we are all are concerned with is this: if the cycle is very brief (under 30 days), can we benefit from a much larger dose of androgens for the shorter period? And, are these gains significant and permanent enough to justify the cycle? ... futhermore, is it safe? Not Paul's credentials, nor yours, or Marcus... lets get back to disecting the idea and see where it can take us. Forget this cyclical BS...

[marcus300]

From searching this thread:

Anthony, dude - forget PB for a moment and look at the theory Marcus has presented (and Paul's research). The theory - not the people serving you the info. You have a lot of time invested into this subject and instead of specelation and attacks on a dead man's character - why not try and dive into the idea of priming and short burst cycling? Even if you don't respect Paul or Marcus, respect the idea; humor it long enought to find us some supportive or contradicting evidense as to why we shouldn't do this - or how to best maximize the principles.

Damn dude - this could become a good topic for you to write on should BC help publish another text

I think its been in our face for a long time. Prime to get the body thristy for growth - as it is after an intense cutting phase... and keep cycles brief to maximize recovery post cycle. Why is it so common to look on these forums today and see 16-20+ week cycles...? I think this stuff has evolved in the wrong direction personally.

I also think the real thing we are all are concerned with is this: if the cycle is very brief (under 30 days), can we benefit from a much larger dose of androgens for the shorter period? And, are these gains significant and permanent enough to justify the cycle? ... futhermore, is it safe? Not Paul's credentials, nor yours, or Marcus... lets get back to disecting the idea and see where it can take us. Forget this cyclical BS...

AMEN

[scriptfactory]

University trained, Paul received his bachelor's degree in biochemistry. He graduated with first-class honors. He then went on to get his master's degree in pharmacology, specializing in the study of receptor sites and their function. He's had his work published in medical journals throughout the world, written several books, and had over 200 articles appear in magazines on the various aspects of steroid use and their application to bodybuilding. When some of the top professionals need advice on how to arrange their stacks and cycles for a major show, they call Paul. That list of top professionals?according to Paul?even includes a fellow by the name of Dorian Yates.

This part is filled with misinformation...

NM: How long of a wait do you recommend before starting another course?

PB: At least 15 days, which comes to 21 days after your last shot. But if you wait too much longer than three weeks, you're going backwards in your progress. You'll spend time "making up" for what you've lost, even if you use anti-catabolics.

Interesting. Is this what you advocate as well, Marcus? Coming off for two weeks and then going back on?

NM: Tell me a little about your company. How did it get started?

PB: A few years back, my wife and I started a company called Chemical Nutrition. Unfortunately, we took on a partner of dubious integrity. It got so bad that he threatened to put me in a body bag! I ended that relationship and started Biohazard. We've been growing very quickly in the UK, and I'm glad to say that my ex-partner's business is declining badly. I don't follow a business "strategy." I focus on culture. I want to make the best products. I won't bullshit anyone or let anyone work for me who isn't honest. I have an MBA degree, and my business philosophy is not to build an empire; rather, we want to build many castles. I want to make money, but I have to look at myself in the mirror every day. I have to respect what I see.

Now he has an MBA as well? Bullshit... This dude has two masters and a bachelor degree now?

NM: What is your current stack?

PB: For the first ten days, I take 1000 mg of Sustanon a day. Days 11 to 20, I take 800 mg of Deca , 400 mg of Primobolan , and 600 mg of test propionate a day. Days 21 to 30, I do 400 mg of propionate, 200 mg of Winstrol , and four of my Triple X capsules, which are a homemade combination of Dinatropinol, T3, and oral insulin. I also take a 30-IU shot of insulin every time I eat a meal.

Wow.

NM: So in the future, will you just stick to using clen ?

PB: No, I'd still use the DNP . I'll just suffer. It can make you lose five pounds of fat in a week. My waist is 31 inches. That's also one benefit of being in the hospital. I had to have two ribs removed, which made my waist slimmer. Cher had a similar surgical procedure done on her to produce a longer torso look. I love it!

http://www.snopes.com/horrors/vanities/ribs.asp

31" waist with sub 8% BF at almost 300lbs. Why wasn't he Mr. Olympia, again?

NM: What drugs don't you like?

PB: I don't like testosterone cypionate . It's a very raw drug. It also makes you depressed. Anadrol is a shit drug. The fact that it's a 50-mg tablet tells you how weak it is.

OK...

NM: I've often made that same point, but it's amazing how many people don't "get" it. The low-dosed drugs, like Winstrol, build the most muscle.

PB: Winstrol is a very potent tissue-building drug in the truest sense! As far as effectiveness in building muscle, 50 mg of Winny tabs will blow 50 mg of Anadrol right out of the water!

Yeah...

NM: Does it make sense not to stack too many different steroids ?

PB: All steroids compete with each other. That's why I say to take Sus for ten days, then Deca for ten days, and so on. Proviron is thought to be an anti-estrogen, but it's really an anti-androgen. Clomid is an underrated anti-estrogen.

Synergy anyone?

NM: No doubt! Paul, are there any last comments that you'd like to make?

PB: I just want to be able to provide accurate information and sell products that I know are effective. My motto is, "Ignorance kills?let's kill ignorance." I honestly believe that if we give the people the right information, we'll build this sport. There are a lot of assholes with too much power in our sport!

Looks like he got his wish when he killed himself... Marcus, please no more defending this dude. He was a quack.

[scriptfactory]

I also think the real thing we are all are concerned with is this: if the cycle is very brief (under 30 days), can we benefit from a much larger dose of androgens for the shorter period? And, are these gains significant and permanent enough to justify the cycle? ... futhermore, is it safe? Not Paul's credentials, nor yours, or Marcus... lets get back to disecting the idea and see where it can take us. Forget this cyclical BS...

Exactly what I was talking about. THIS is the most important task at hand.

[Swifto]

PB doesnt sound too...Sane?

Anyhow...

All I care about is:

How safe short burst cycles are?

How much they suppress/shutdown ones HPTA?

How easy it is to attain any mass gained using this theory/method?

[Swifto]

Coviello AD, Matsumoto AM, Bremner WJ, et al. Low-dose human chorionic gonadotropin maintains intratesticular testosterone in normal men with testosterone-induced gonadotropin suppression. J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2005;90(5):2595-602.

ABSTRACT

In previous studies of testicular biopsy tissue from healthy men, intratesticular testosterone (ITT) has been shown to be much higher than serum testosterone (T), suggesting that high ITT is needed relative to serum T for normal spermatogenesis in men. However, the quantitative relationship between ITT and spermatogenesis is not known. To begin to address this issue experimentally, we determined the dose-response relationship between human chorionic gonadotropin (hCG ) and ITT to ascertain the minimum dose needed to maintain ITT in the normal range. Twenty-nine men with normal reproductive physiology were randomized to receive 200 mg T enanthate weekly in combination with either saline placebo or 125, 250, or 500 IU hCG every other day for 3 wk. ITT was assessed in testicular fluid obtained by percutaneous fine needle aspiration at baseline and at the end of treatment. Baseline serum T (14.1 nmol/liter) was 1.2% of ITT (1174 nmol/liter). LH and FSH were profoundly suppressed to 5% and 3% of baseline, respectively, and ITT was suppressed by 94% (1234 to 72 nmol/liter) in the T enanthate /placebo group. ITT increased linearly with increasing hCG dose (P < 0.001). Posttreatment ITT was 25% less than baseline in the 125 IU hCG group, 7% less than baseline in the 250 IU hCG group, and 26% greater than baseline in the 500 IU hCG group. These results demonstrate that relatively low dose hCG maintains ITT within the normal range in healthy men with gonadotropin suppression. Extensions of this study will allow determination of the ITT concentration threshold required to maintain spermatogenesis in man.

LH/FSH are suppressed a fair bit (5 and 3%), given its only "200mg/wk for 3 weeks" Marcus...

Maybe these short burst cycles arnt as friendly to ones HPTA as you may think.

[marcus300]

Coviello AD, Matsumoto AM, Bremner WJ, et al. Low-dose human chorionic gonadotropin maintains intratesticular testosterone in normal men with testosterone-induced gonadotropin suppression. J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2005;90(5):2595-602.

ABSTRACT

In previous studies of testicular biopsy tissue from healthy men, intratesticular testosterone (ITT) has been shown to be much higher than serum testosterone (T), suggesting that high ITT is needed relative to serum T for normal spermatogenesis in men. However, the quantitative relationship between ITT and spermatogenesis is not known. To begin to address this issue experimentally, we determined the dose-response relationship between human chorionic gonadotropin (hCG ) and ITT to ascertain the minimum dose needed to maintain ITT in the normal range. Twenty-nine men with normal reproductive physiology were randomized to receive 200 mg T enanthate weekly in combination with either saline placebo or 125, 250, or 500 IU hCG every other day for 3 wk. ITT was assessed in testicular fluid obtained by percutaneous fine needle aspiration at baseline and at the end of treatment. Baseline serum T (14.1 nmol/liter) was 1.2% of ITT (1174 nmol/liter). LH and FSH were profoundly suppressed to 5% and 3% of baseline, respectively, and ITT was suppressed by 94% (1234 to 72 nmol/liter) in the T enanthate /placebo group. ITT increased linearly with increasing hCG dose (P < 0.001). Posttreatment ITT was 25% less than baseline in the 125 IU hCG group, 7% less than baseline in the 250 IU hCG group, and 26% greater than baseline in the 500 IU hCG group. These results demonstrate that relatively low dose hCG maintains ITT within the normal range in healthy men with gonadotropin suppression. Extensions of this study will allow determination of the ITT concentration threshold required to maintain spermatogenesis in man.

LH/FSH are suppressed a fair bit (5 and 3%), given its only "200mg/wk for 3 weeks" Marcus...

Maybe these short burst cycles arnt as friendly to ones HPTA as you may think.

Recovering from a short shut down is far quicker than recovery from 3-4 months shutdown

[Swifto]

Recovering from a short shut down is far quicker than recovery from 3-4 months shutdown

That may be true, I dont know. I've only recovered from a 14 week cycle.

Did you find that ganadotropin suppression in your clients was similar to this study Marcus?

[marcus300]

That may be true, I dont know. I've only recovered from a 14 week cycle.

Did you find that ganadotropin suppression in your clients was similar to this study Marcus?

Depend which compounds are used many dont suffer from suppression many shutdown altogether, what am saying even if its as bad as full shutdown its better shutting down for 2-3 wks than 14 wks, recovery does seem to be faster and not as harsh downside after cycle

[Swifto]

Go on Ross explain to me exactly what a Ross cycle is, i wouldnt dismiss anything in this game, what do you mean by an extented cycle only shutdown for 4-8 wks, are you taklking about short cycle then linking with the not suppresive compounds?

I am all for shutting down the HPTA for minimal time, it does seem easier to recover when this is dont within a cycle

Please without the bolds

LARGE LETTERS

Red and Blue too

[tranzit]

No...the study was done after the Anabolic Steroid Control Act. I think you just have a slight misconception about the legal issues regarding medical studies...no big deal. It's a common misconception...you certainly CAN do studies on healthy people, depending on the study in question.

Anthony I respect you very much and often use your info as refrence but a few things to remeber here.

A. Body builders pros at least do not live healthy life styles for the most part that is why they have so many health problems later in life. So compairing a body builder to 90% of the people who read this board as a test subject isnt realistic.

B. Second i would like to see some documented US studies after the steroid act on healthy men between the ages of 25-30 with proper diet and pct.

C. My wife is a Lawyer i am well versed on this. When the steroid act really got going it became a sched 3 drug equal to cocain ect. So basicly by saying they can give people this illegal substance that has been banned by the FDA except for people with klinefelder "sp" syndrome or other inflictions is like saying they can test cocain on people. It isnt legal now if the FDA is conducting a test of a new product or reconsidering a banned product this is a diffrent story. But i really would like to see these doccuments.

Again no dissrespect ment anthony i apprichiate you on this board and all the hard work you put in. And for that i thank you.

My main point of this post though was to point out they never tell the truth. its always a scare tactic.

[marcus300]

Anthony I respect you very much and often use your info as refrence but a few things to remeber here.

A. Body builders pros at least do not live healthy life styles for the most part that is why they have so many health problems later in life. So compairing a body builder to 90% of the people who read this board as a test subject isnt realistic.

B. Second i would like to see some documented US studies after the steroid act on healthy men between the ages of 25-30 with proper diet and pct.

C. My wife is a Lawyer i am well versed on this. When the steroid act really got going it became a sched 3 drug equal to cocain ect. So basicly by saying they can give people this illegal substance that has been banned by the FDA except for people with klinefelder "sp" syndrome or other inflictions is like saying they can test cocain on people. It isnt legal now if the FDA is conducting a test of a new product or reconsidering a banned product this is a diffrent story. But i really would like to see these doccuments.
Again no dissrespect ment anthony i apprichiate you on this board and all the hard work you put in. And for that i thank you.

My main point of this post though was to point out they never tell the truth. its always a scare tactic.

Thanks Transit for making that clear to AR,

[Property of Steroid.com]

Anthony I respect you very much and often use your info as refrence but a few things to remeber here.

A. Body builders pros at least do not live healthy life styles for the most part that is why they have so many health problems later in life. So compairing a body builder to 90% of the people who read this board as a test subject isnt realistic.

B. Second i would like to see some documented US studies after the steroid act on healthy men between the ages of 25-30 with proper diet and pct.

C. My wife is a Lawyer i am well versed on this. When the steroid act really got going it became a sched 3 drug equal to cocain ect. So basicly by saying they can give people this illegal substance that has been banned by the FDA except for people with klinefelder "sp" syndrome or other inflictions is like saying they can test cocain on people. It isnt legal now if the FDA is conducting a test of a new product or reconsidering a banned product this is a diffrent story. But i really would like to see these doccuments.

Again no dissrespect ment anthony i apprichiate you on this board and all the hard work you put in. And for that i thank you.

My main point of this post though was to point out they never tell the truth. its always a scare tactic.

No disrespect taken by your comments... or intended by my replies...


Firstly you seem to be reminding me of....a refutation of a point I never made, and then reminding me of 2 very invalid and easily dismissed points.

1. don't exactly know what point of mine (if any) youre supporting or refuting here....studies have their use, but certainly I never said that every study is applicable to every member here. We take the science and do the best we can with it...many of my original ideas (Gh + T4, Benadryl + Clen , etc...) were found in research and then confirmed by experience. It's rare that things go the other way, but sometimes it does....my Winstrol Oral vs. Injectable article is an example of that. But really, I never made the assertion that 90% of the people on this board are comprable to a bodybuilder (however that is defined). I also never said that BB'ing is healthy. So....I mean...I'm not sure why you think I need to remember that factiod...

2. By adding "proper diet and PCT" you're adding into your request something which I never claimed would exist as a study. I don't think it's reasonable, frankly...but as for studies done with anabolics on healthy men, I have posted a study below where healthy men were given 600mgs of testosterone for a 16 week study which was conducted well after the anabolic steroid control act was enacted.


3. I have no idea what point you're trying to establish here, but here is a study on healthy men who were given testosterone at a dose of up to 600mgs, for a 16 week long study. The existence of the following study seems to refute both points 2 & 3 that you just made.

Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab. 2001 Dec;281(6):E1172-81. Links
Testosterone dose-response relationships in healthy young men.

• Bhasin S,
• Woodhouse L,
• Casaburi R,
• Singh AB,
• Bhasin D,
• Berman N,
• Chen X,
• Yarasheski KE,
• Magliano L,
• Dzekov C,
• Dzekov J,
• Bross R,
• Phillips J,
• Sinha-Hikim I,
• Shen R,
• Storer TW.

Division of Endocrinology, Metabolism, and Molecular Medicine, Charles R. Drew University of Medicine and Science, Los Angeles, CA 90059, USA. [email protected]
Testosterone increases muscle mass and strength and regulates other physiological processes, but we do not know whether testosterone effects are dose dependent and whether dose requirements for maintaining various androgen-dependent processes are similar. To determine the effects of graded doses of testosterone on body composition, muscle size, strength, power, sexual and cognitive functions, prostate-specific antigen (PSA), plasma lipids, hemoglobin, and insulin -like growth factor I (IGF-I) levels, 61 eugonadal men, 18-35 yr, were randomized to one of five groups to receive monthly injections of a long-acting gonadotropin-releasing hormone (GnRH) agonist, to suppress endogenous testosterone secretion, and weekly injections of 25, 50, 125, 300, or 600 mg of testosterone enanthate for 20 wk. Energy and protein intakes were standardized. The administration of the GnRH agonist plus graded doses of testosterone resulted in mean nadir testosterone concentrations of 253, 306, 542, 1,345, and 2,370 ng/dl at the 25-, 50-, 125-, 300-, and 600-mg doses, respectively. Fat-free mass increased dose dependently in men receiving 125, 300, or 600 mg of testosterone weekly (change +3.4, 5.2, and 7.9 kg, respectively). The changes in fat-free mass were highly dependent on testosterone dose (P = 0.0001) and correlated with log testosterone concentrations (r = 0.73, P = 0.0001). Changes in leg press strength, leg power, thigh and quadriceps muscle volumes, hemoglobin, and IGF-I were positively correlated with testosterone concentrations, whereas changes in fat mass and plasma high-density lipoprotein (HDL) cholesterol were negatively correlated. Sexual function, visual-spatial cognition and mood, and PSA levels did not change significantly at any dose. We conclude that changes in circulating testosterone concentrations, induced by GnRH agonist and testosterone administration, are associated with testosterone dose- and concentration-dependent changes in fat-free mass, muscle size, strength and power, fat mass, hemoglobin, HDL cholesterol, and IGF-I levels, in conformity with a single linear dose-response relationship. However, different androgen-dependent processes have different testosterone dose-response relationships.
PMID: 11701431 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Thanks Transit for making that clear to AR,

I believe the clarity of his points is established, though the validity/soundness of them seems questionable in light of my replies, I think.

[Property of Steroid.com]

Thats how you come over to me amd to be trueful about 5-6 other members aswell VIA pm, we all must be wrong on our conclusion about you,

His PB work was his own not copied like many people claiming other peoples work

You have to understand the whole process Anthony and in your own words you are not 100% familiar with priming and short cycling so am afraid i take nothing what you say with any credability,

I dont want to carry on going back and forth with you, you wont have it so fine, all i ask is try it and see for yourself, if you need any help understanding the priming PM me i will help you out,

I would invite you to find an example of something I copied and pasted or plagorized if you are going to make claims to that effect. If you aren't going to do so, I'd ask you to please cease making those claims.

-Also-

You're creating a strawman here. When I said I was unfamiliar with something, I added the addendum that it was an unfamiliarity with how you were using the term. This is because when you use the term "study" you actually mean "unverifiable anecdote"....wheras the rest of us mean "Published Medical Study"....so I was attempting to avoid a similar problem in semantics.

[Property of Steroid.com]

.. Marcus, please no more defending this dude. He was a quack.

I would actually like to see a defence/refutation of the PB quotes that you just posted by marcus. If PB was correct in his assertions, then it should be no problem for marcus to show that what you posted from PB is defendable and correct.

I'd like to know how Proviron is an anti-androgen (which has an anabolic rating equal to or higher than test)....