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Thread: Did Dean Wharmby really die of steroid use?

  1. #1
    NiccoGutierrez1 is offline Junior Member
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    Did Dean Wharmby really die of steroid use?

    Dean Wharmby died of liver cancer. He was also using steroids .

  2. #2
    Couchlock is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by NiccoGutierrez1 View Post
    Dean Wharmby died of liver cancer. He was also using steroids.
    I done know who he is, but if he used orals consistently in cycles, they definitely contributed to the cancer

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    Eh, I think plenty of shit contributed to his cancer.

    Dean Wharmby loses battle to liver cancer which he blamed on 10k calorie diet | Daily Mail Online

    The steroids might have contributed too, but sounds like an extreme guy in every respect. And I think there's more to the story than just AAS, pizza and energy drinks. But then again, some are just unlucky too.

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    Euroholic is offline "ARs Pork Eating Crusader"
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    Alot of people die of cancer most do not use steroids . So odds are steroids will not give you cancer

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    Quote Originally Posted by NiccoGutierrez1 View Post
    Dean Wharmby died of liver cancer. He was also using steroids.
    Its rare heavy steroidusers die from liverfailure. Ive red Anadrol is the only steroid which has been proven to cause liver cancer.

    Heartattack is often seen and kidneyfailure.

    If the heartattachissue was nonexisting i would say moderate steroiduse is longtime pretty safe.

  6. #6
    NiccoGutierrez1 is offline Junior Member
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    Why is steroids being prescribed for TRT then? Androgel was sued by people for causing strokes and heart attacks to people.

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    USA is the land of the free. Anyone is free to sue anyone if they think they can get something out of them. IMO, it's REALLY hard to pin point if steroids cause cancer. Why? Because our diet's full of chemicals, hormones, genetically modified foods, artificial sweeteners, artificial flavorings, chemical preservatives. Our air is bombarded with waves of every frequency. Our water's chemically treated. Even the air we breathe could be polluted. I'm not a doomsday guy. It's all a part of the world we live in. To say that steroids is THE reason for cancer in many cases, seems like a lawyer looking for a reason to sue someone. Enjoy life life to the fullest. If it's your time, it's your time.
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    NiccoGutierrez1 is offline Junior Member
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    Ya, but lets agree that steroids may be a reason to speed up those "cancer" causing problems? Or maybe it plays a role in what caused it. I may not even want to gear then I hear so many people dying from it. They keep saying "where are the bodies" isn't Dean Wharmby one of them?

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    NiccoGutierrez1 is offline Junior Member
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    Too much of anything isn't good for you. I know for a fact people like Arnold Schwartzenegger, and other body builders out there are probably using steroids , but they probably didn't do enough to do damage. I'm sure if you know what your doing then you might be able to get away with it.

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    Couchlock is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by NiccoGutierrez1 View Post
    Too much of anything isn't good for you. I know for a fact people like Arnold Schwartzenegger, and other body builders out there are probably using steroids, but they probably didn't do enough to do damage. I'm sure if you know what your doing then you might be able to get away with it.
    Arnold has had multiple heart surgerys, one being a quadruple bypass.

    He's also on trt for life.

    Those guys used a ton and then some. They were heavy non stop cycles spanning over 22 weeks, with a low cruise for the rest of the year, untill heavy use again. And repeat

  11. #11
    NiccoGutierrez1 is offline Junior Member
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    Why are they using steroids for TRT then if it does this to people?

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    Quote Originally Posted by NiccoGutierrez1 View Post
    Ya, but lets agree that steroids may be a reason to speed up those "cancer" causing problems? Or maybe it plays a role in what caused it. I may not even want to gear then I hear so many people dying from it. They keep saying "where are the bodies" isn't Dean Wharmby one of them?
    Please post a study backing up anything you've said or implied. At least name one person who died directly from the use of steroids .


    Quote Originally Posted by NiccoGutierrez1 View Post
    Why are they using steroids for TRT then if it does this to people?
    You're reading claims that have already been debunked by the medical community. TRT does not directly cause harm. It's actually far healthier than having low testosterne levels. Anyone having a serious medical issue caused from TRT would be due to either poor or no medical supervision. It's that simple. Like any long-term medical protocol, patients have to be monitored.
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    Quote Originally Posted by NiccoGutierrez1 View Post
    Ya, but lets agree that steroids may be a reason to speed up those "cancer" causing problems? Or maybe it plays a role in what caused it. I may not even want to gear then I hear so many people dying from it. They keep saying "where are the bodies" isn't Dean Wharmby one of them?
    First, there has to be proof that Dean Wharmby died of steroids before we can say that he is a "body", right? We can't just read something on the internet and say that he's a victim of steroids. Lyle Alzato said he got brain tumor from steroids use and became the anti-steroid poster child. Well, a Harvard medical professor said that his brain tumor was not the result of steroid use . The public's outcry wasn't dampened one little tiny bit based on facts. It was fueled by emotion and hearsay. If enough people say it is, it but be true. That is a dangerous way to spread information.

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    Couchlock is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScotchGuard02 View Post

    First, there has to be proof that Dean Wharmby died of steroids before we can say that he is a "body", right? We can't just read something on the internet and say that he's a victim of steroids. Lyle Alzato said he got brain tumor from steroids use and became the anti-steroid poster child. Well, a Harvard medical professor said that his brain tumor was not the result of steroid use. The public's outcry wasn't dampened one little tiny bit based on facts. It was fueled by emotion and hearsay. If enough people say it is, it but be true. That is a dangerous way to spread information.
    What about this?

    https://www.t-nation.com/pharma/big-dead-bodybuilders

    I mean you can't help but to see a trend, all dead from ages 30 to 49 or so. This needs discussed thoroughly

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    NiccoGutierrez1 is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Couchlockd View Post
    What about this?

    https://www.t-nation.com/pharma/big-dead-bodybuilders

    I mean you can't help but to see a trend, all dead from ages 30 to 49 or so. This needs discussed thoroughly
    That's what I've been saying. Lets face it. Anabolic steroids are bad for you. Whether they are orals or injectables. And yes there are "bodies"

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    Quote Originally Posted by NiccoGutierrez1 View Post
    That's what I've been saying. Lets face it. Anabolic steroids are bad for you. Whether they are orals or injectables. And yes there are "bodies"
    Here we can see heavy steroid ABUSE ,not moderate use. Pros using 6-7 grams and some1 on TRT dose of 100 mg/week , that's not even comparable. Cycling 400-500 mg test a week , once a year or in two years, is nothing compared to doses that pros do. If i said , hey 1 glass of wine a week is okay , and then you take a full bottle every day and chug it down , after some time you're gonna have problems, because you ABUSED it. So be moderate,and you'll be fine. I have high BP, but guess what , not due to steroid use , it was high even before TRT, and that's because of STRESS, everyday crap is what strains your body the most.

  17. #17
    NiccoGutierrez1 is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Myers View Post
    Here we can see heavy steroid ABUSE ,not moderate use. Pros using 6-7 grams and some1 on TRT dose of 100 mg/week , that's not even comparable. Cycling 400-500 mg test a week , once a year or in two years, is nothing compared to doses that pros do. If i said , hey 1 glass of wine a week is okay , and then you take a full bottle every day and chug it down , after some time you're gonna have problems, because you ABUSED it. So be moderate,and you'll be fine. I have high BP, but guess what , not due to steroid use , it was high even before TRT, and that's because of STRESS, everyday crap is what strains your body the most.
    Androgel is a TRT dose. And the company was sued because it gave people heart attacks and strokes.

  18. #18
    magic32's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=DocToxin8;7253717]Eh, I think plenty of [stuff] contributed to his cancer.

    The first part of post #3 by Doc is spot on!

    There is absolutely no way, ZERO way, that you can have multiple causal variables and still wholly attribute an effect/result to a single variable. In research we call it confounding data, confound means to ruin, destroy, bring to waste, etc.

    Even if you were somehow able to put together a solid sample of people who were his age, ethnicity, and basic health all of whom did EVERYTHING the EXACT same way (water, foods, cals, amounts, supplements, energy drinks, gear, dosages, frequencies, and durations), you'd still have mixed results because of the of plethora of individual properties, i.e., genetics, predispositions, sensitivities, contraindications, etc., etc., etc...

    Thus we use a much more viable, and therefore valid and reliable reference, the effects experienced by those who participate in similar activities. From this as expressed by Silabolin, we know that gear users (implying those who do so with even a modicum of usage knowledge) don't TYPICALLY/In General/On the Whole/Based on the Vast Majority, experience liver tumors that are so large that they're inoperable, or serious liver complications at all. Far more likely are kidney and/or heart conditions.

    However, to address your TRT question, I offer this. Using aas for performance and aesthetic enhancement requires significantly more steroids , often types, amounts, and dosages, than the those prescribed in simple TRT which was developed to MERELY restore diminished testosterone levels back to normalcy (average levels). Of course average test levels, in every man based largely on age, DO NOT cause health problems nor do they even come close to promoting organ dysfunction.

    That's why TRT is used, because when properly administered, it is absolutely safe!

    But it's obvious that you're a naysayer...steroids are medications and are no more bad for you than any others when used properly.
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  19. #19
    NiccoGutierrez1 is offline Junior Member
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    [QUOTE=magic32;7254265]
    Quote Originally Posted by DocToxin8 View Post
    Eh, I think plenty of [stuff] contributed to his cancer.

    The first part of post #3 by Doc is spot on!

    There is absolutely no way, ZERO way, that you can have multiple causal variables and still wholly attribute an effect/result to a single variable. In research we call it confounding data, confound means to ruin, destroy, bring to waste, etc.

    Even if you were somehow able to put together a solid sample of people who were his age, ethnicity, and basic health all of whom did EVERYTHING the EXACT same way (water, foods, cals, amounts, supplements, energy drinks, gear, dosages, frequencies, and durations), you'd still have mixed results because of the of plethora of individual properties, i.e., genetics, predispositions, sensitivities, contraindications, etc., etc., etc...

    Thus we use a much more viable, and therefore valid and reliable reference, the effects experienced by those who participate in similar activities. From this as expressed by Silabolin, we know that gear users (implying those who do so with even a modicum of usage knowledge) don't TYPICALLY/In General/On the Whole/Based on the Vast Majority, experience liver tumors that are so large that they're inoperable, or serious liver complications at all. Far more likely are kidney and/or heart conditions.

    However, to address your TRT question, I offer this. Using aas for performance and aesthetic enhancement requires significantly more steroids , often types, amounts, and dosages, than the those prescribed in simple TRT which was developed to MERELY restore diminished testosterone levels back to normalcy (average levels). Of course average test levels, in every man based largely on age, DO NOT cause health problems nor do they even come close to promoting organ dysfunction.

    That's why TRT is used, because when properly administered, it is absolutely safe!

    But it's obvious that you're a naysayer...steroids are medications and are no more bad for you than any others when used properly.
    So, you're saying Wharmby's death isn't very common? And yes people have died from TRT doses. Just go on google and type "Androgel lawsuit"

  20. #20
    magic32's Avatar
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    QUOTE=NiccoGutierrez1;7254271

    So, you're saying Wharmby's death isn't very common?
    Yes!

    And yes people have died from TRT doses. Just go on google and type "Androgel lawsuit".
    True, they've also died from drinking water, poor air mixtures, and yes, yes, yes...idiopathic causes - completely unknown!!!
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    Difference between Drugs & Poisons
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    Quote Originally Posted by Couchlockd View Post
    What about this?

    https://www.t-nation.com/pharma/big-dead-bodybuilders

    I mean you can't help but to see a trend, all dead from ages 30 to 49 or so. This needs discussed thoroughly
    I agree that messing with the natural rhythm of the human body may not be ideal. However, doctors prescribe TRT to men with lower Test levels to bring them to a "normal" level. "Normal" is a freaking huge range. Is it "safe" to be at 10% of "normal" or 90% of "normal"? I read the link and followed up on their references. This what one of the reference clinical studies say about AF leading to cardiac failure, "Atrial fibrillation (AF) is the most frequently observed arrhythmia in bodybuilders who are using AAS [8]. Moreover, various case reports of AF among AAS users suggest a causal link between AAS use and AF in power athletes [8–11]. However, the mechanisms underlying such predispositions to AF are poorly understood and also it is not clear that AAS using athletes are more prone to atrial rhythm disturbances than non-AAS users." The part in bold isn't mentioned in the linked article. The study says that there is no conclusive evidence that AAS is the cause of AF. It MAY be a cause but the jury's still out. The linked article never mentions this and draw a conclusion that AAS leads to cardiac arrest. Listen, if you're convinced that AAS usage is life threatening, don't use it. I have been cycling AAS for a LONG time and I just got my full physical exam results back last week. Except for some cholesterol issue, I am in perfect health. Each person has to make their own choice about AAS.
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  22. #22
    magic32's Avatar
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    Also, as I believe Scotch said earlier, a lawsuit is not tantamount to fault or even evidence of possible fault. Heck I could sue you right now for continuing this thread. But that means nothing, nor does it mean I'd get paid.
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    Difference between Drugs & Poisons
    http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=317700


    Half-lives explained
    http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...inal+half+life


    DNP like Chemotherapy, can be a useful poison, but both are still POISONS
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    BE CAREFUL!

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    magic, you're not a lawyer, are you?

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    GenomeSoldier is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by magic32 View Post
    Also, as I believe Scotch said earlier, a lawsuit is not tantamount to fault or even evidence of possible fault. Heck I could sue you right now for continuing this thread. But that means nothing, nor does it mean I'd get paid.
    oooo
    Last edited by GenomeSoldier; 01-23-2017 at 03:28 PM.

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    NiccoGutierrez1 is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by magic32 View Post
    Also, as I believe Scotch said earlier, a lawsuit is not tantamount to fault or even evidence of possible fault. Heck I could sue you right now for continuing this thread. But that means nothing, nor does it mean I'd get paid.
    Well it doesn't really say who won the case, but if androgel won the case then I'm assuming it wasn't the steroids that caused their heart attacks and strokes. Unless someone can find a source saying who won the case.

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    I've been sued before. The other side didn't talk about the actual event. They wanted to make me look as low as a sidewinder eating his own mother. Their whole strategy was to ruin my character so whatever I said would be believed by the jury as being a lie. It didn't work, I won. I guess I'm saying that a law suit, to me, proves nothing about the cause/effect of AAS use and death.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Myers View Post
    Here we can see heavy steroid ABUSE ,not moderate use. Pros using 6-7 grams and some1 on TRT dose of 100 mg/week , that's not even comparable. Cycling 400-500 mg test a week , once a year or in two years, is nothing compared to doses that pros do. If i said , hey 1 glass of wine a week is okay , and then you take a full bottle every day and chug it down , after some time you're gonna have problems, because you ABUSED it. So be moderate,and you'll be fine. I have high BP, but guess what , not due to steroid use , it was high even before TRT, and that's because of STRESS, everyday crap is what strains your body the most.
    Amen brother

  28. #28
    magic32's Avatar
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    Nah, I’m a Researcher.

    But pleeeease Scotch, don’t give him and unnecessary ammunition. I understand what you’re saying but he’ll likely misinterpret it. Yes, performance/aesthetic aas use temporarily changes your body in some negative ways. However, that negative way is not overtly harmful to your health. For example, if your doctor was reviewing lipid panels he’d voice concern, but if you told him you’re running a 12-week testosterone cycle he’d say “Oh, no worries.” Thus, temporary negative physiological changes DO NOT EQUAL dangerously harmful physiological effects. That’s a false analogy.
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    My motto: SAFETY & RESPECT (for drugs and others).

    I AM NOT A SOURCE, I DO NOT GIVE OUT SOURCES, OR PROVIDE SOURCE CHECKS.
    I DO NOT SUPPORT ANY UGL's OR ANY ORGANIZATION DEALING WITH THE DISTRIBUTION OF ILLEGAL NARCOTICS/SUBSTANCES!


    Difference between Drugs & Poisons
    http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=317700


    Half-lives explained
    http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...inal+half+life


    DNP like Chemotherapy, can be a useful poison, but both are still POISONS
    http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=306144


    BE CAREFUL!

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    Nicco you're making assumptions based on flawed information. Read this rebuttal to a flawed report(s) that came out a few years ago regarding TRT and cardiac isues. It was completely debunked by Dr. Abraham Morgantaler, arguably one of the most significant and world renowned testosterone researchers to this day:

    Testosterone deficiency and cardiovascular mortality Morgentaler A - Asian J Androl

    And this:

    Response To Media Reports Associating Testosterone Treatment With Greater Heart Attack Risk - Life Extension
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  30. #30
    NiccoGutierrez1 is offline Junior Member
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    Ok, let me ask this. At what doses would testosterone be at its safest, and for how long? Lets say injectable testosterone.

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    Nicco read the Successful First Cycle thread at the top of this forum. It's a great guide for a first time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by NiccoGutierrez1 View Post
    Ok, let me ask this. At what doses would testosterone be at its safest, and for how long? Lets say injectable testosterone.
    That's a simple one actually, but it all depends what you mean by safe.
    I'd say for a person that have low levels of natural T, the amount of injected T that would raise his T levels to about 1000ng/dl would be safest.

    Now, one has to define what "safe" is though;
    Low levels to T can contribute to a host of problems,
    from heart attack to osteoporosis.
    TRT would remedy many of the ailments, but it also comes with its own risks.

    It's like HRT for women after menopause.
    We know estrogen increases cancer risk as well as stroke,
    but overall, the improvement in life quality, the reduction in fractures/osteoporosis, improvement in skin/hair, etc.
    all these factors make it clear that if a woman want estrogen,
    she should have it. Even if her chance of cancer will increase a little.

    With AAS use, that is used for performance enhancement, the only type of proof we have to go by is anecdotal evidence. The weakest form of evidence and most likely to be skewed by confounding variables.

    do you know about the biggest lawsuit in history, the one about benzodiazepines?
    In that case the medical community hadn't warned people how addictive stuff like Valium really was. Nowadays someone with anxiety will get a script for an antipsychotic medication with tons of side effects, instead of some good old Valium that only has 1 serious side effect: addiction.
    I wish one could just write on a paper; "I know this shit is has it dangers, but it's worth it for me", and be done with it.

    Dean Wharmby is a very poor example of even anecdotal evidence for the dangers of AAS, since he did so many things to the extreme.

    With every type of medication there are risks.
    Shouldn't we be allowed to take such decisions ourself, based on accurate data?

    When it comes to steroids no one can say you weren't warned about possible dangers. When it comes to TRT, (I know this is different in many states), it's actually too hard to get it, not the other way around.

    Over here a bodybuilder with a fucked HPTA may go to the doctor and do a blood test who's showing low T. But the doctor will often say, just stay off the steroids for a year or two and then we'll see about treatment.
    Fuck, have u tried going with low T for a year? Or even 6 months?

    And why doesn't the same apply to women who want estrogen, either for birth control or after menopause? We know estrogen has side effects.

    It's because of political correctness more than anything.
    (Ofcourse birth control is a tricky one, but still)
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    ^^^^ Good post, very interesting read.

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