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  1. #1
    BOUNCER is offline Retired Vet
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    If you could make one change in MMA..

    What would it be?..

    I'd have maybe two or three rounds, to be continued after a submission.. In other words. If I tapout in round one, I lose that round. The round ends and round two starts and so forth..

    Any idea's?

  2. #2
    Odin is offline Member
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    Well... That might be a little unfair to a grappiler cause if you tap out, you will have a round 2, and 3 to look forward too. Now if you catch him with an elbow and knock his teeth out, their won't be a round 2 and 3 for him. The only thing I would want is more TV time and money for the fighters. No doubt in my mind the best are going to start making some serious money in this game, like millions. However, their are a comple of cool things I would love to see. Give lifers in jail a chance for freedom by having them fight MMA with 5 cops in a stadium like the Romens did and if he win's he's free if he looses they get to beat him to death.
    Last edited by Odin; 12-21-2004 at 10:52 AM.

  3. #3
    phwSSJ's Avatar
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    That sounds pretty cool.
    It would change things definitly. it would make fighters train a lot more stand-up and it would also give an unfair advantage to the good stand-up fighters vs. the submission fighters.
    It would be pretty hard to fight like that too.
    Take for example the Sakuraba Randalman fight. Randalman was rearanging Saku's face. Randalman almost won but he made a mistake and Saku capitalized and got the submission. I dont think Saku could go another two rounds, he was already halfway to being mince meat.

    My main concern with MMA is its popularity. Our sport needs to grow. Hardly anybody knows about it, and only the people that actually train MMA can really appreciate it for what it is.
    I think there are two main problems:

    Corruption (boxing commision and the UFC) that takes some real thinking about and ia whole other topic on its own.

    Popularity of the fighters themselfves. I think one of the biggest things holding MMA back is popularity of the fighters. People want to be able to familiarize with their favorite fighters. Wrestlers, football players, baseball, etc. they perform every week.
    Fighters..youl be lucky to see them fight three times a year.
    I think the main reason for that though is money. They do not get paid enough at all, so its hard to make a living on training and fighting.

    I would like to see a huge-ass world tournament, held say ..evry four years.

    And everyone can enter but not that easily. You have to qualify by gaining points and what not. There would be weight classes, then the winners from all the weight classes fight each other to determine who really is the best in the world.
    And gigantic prizes, so it would draw all the talent possible to make sure the competition is the best it can be!

    That is what I would like to see happen.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odin
    Well... That might be a little unfair to a grappiler cause if you take out you do have a round 2 and 3 to look forward too. If you catch him with an elbow and knock his teeth out their won't be a round 2 and 3. The only thing I would want it more TV time and money for the fighters. No doubt in my mind the best are going to start makeing some serious money in this game, like millions. However their are a comple of cool things I would love to see. Give lifers in jail a chance for freedom by having them fight MMA with 5 cops in a stadium like the Romens did and if he win's he's free if he looses they get to beat him to death.

    agreed,
    I like that,
    it would wipe out all of that reality tv bullschit

  5. #5
    BOUNCER is offline Retired Vet
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    Quote Originally Posted by phwSSJ
    My main concern with MMA is its popularity. Our sport needs to grow. Hardly anybody knows about it, and only the people that actually train MMA can really appreciate it for what it is.
    Thats one of the reason's I was thinking of rounds, whereby if you tapout you lose that round and move onto the next. I'm tired of bringing people to MMA events, telling them what an exciting time its going to be, only to see (and hear) their disappointment when a fight ends by submission. Mostly its people from my kickboxing club, who don't understand grappling, feel this.

    I also feel it would encourage submission fighters to develop some boxing skills.

  6. #6
    Odin is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by BOUNCER
    Thats one of the reason's I was thinking of rounds, whereby if you tapout you lose that round and move onto the next. I'm tired of bringing people to MMA events, telling them what an exciting time its going to be, only to see (and hear) their disappointment when a fight ends by submission. Mostly its people from my kickboxing club, who don't understand grappling, feel this.

    I also feel it would encourage submission fighters to develop some boxing skills.
    Hey nobody is telling them to submit? Maybe if they let the break a bone and hear the other guy squeel a little it will pep things up.

  7. #7
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    Really though, I think the punchers, and kickboxers need to move with the times. See you guys are used to wearing gloves so you don't have a lot of skill with hand positioning. If strikers had better skill with tie-ups they would be more effect. Look at the beutiful tie-up Ken shamrock did on kimo. He was able to get his arms out so he could land that massive knee on him. I would recomend strikers to practice a good wreslier and work on standing tie-ups only and work on their strikes from the opening they can create. Hey kickboxing does not let you use knee's? I know boxing does not let Elbow's. Their 2 huge moves that would not be practiced in either one of these then.
    Last edited by Odin; 12-21-2004 at 01:05 PM.

  8. #8
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    would you then have the same rule with knock outs? Like if you get ko'd you lose rd1 but you still go on to fight other rounds? I dont think it would be fair to either fighter but it would be cool to see them beat the hell out of eachother for 3 rounds. As a fighter the way I look at it is it dosent matter if you win by an inch or a quarter mile, winning is winning.

    Quote Originally Posted by BOUNCER
    What would it be?..

    I'd have maybe two or three rounds, to be continued after a submission.. In other words. If I tapout in round one, I lose that round. The round ends and round two starts and so forth..

    Any idea's?

  9. #9
    BOUNCER is offline Retired Vet
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    Quote Originally Posted by billy_ba
    would you then have the same rule with knock outs? Like if you get ko'd you lose rd1 but you still go on to fight other rounds? I dont think it would be fair to either fighter but it would be cool to see them beat the hell out of eachother for 3 rounds. As a fighter the way I look at it is it dosent matter if you win by an inch or a quarter mile, winning is winning.

    I'm not sure about your rules in the states, but but the first time you get knocked out in Europe you can't fight or spar for 30 days, second time its 60 days, third time is 90 days with the recommendation you don't fight again, thats for amateur boxers.

    But I don't neccessarily think that a fight should finish on a tapout. 99% of times the fighter isn't incapacitated and could fight on for another round or two.

    Ask most people who don't understand grappling and they tell you a ground fight is boring. If the sport is to grow as a spectator sport, which means bigger pay days it has to be made more exciting IMO.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by BOUNCER
    I'm not sure about your rules in the states, but but the first time you get knocked out in Europe you can't fight or spar for 30 days, second time its 60 days, third time is 90 days with the recommendation you don't fight again, thats for amateur boxers.

    But I don't neccessarily think that a fight should finish on a tapout. 99% of times the fighter isn't incapacitated and could fight on for another round or two.

    Ask most people who don't understand grappling and they tell you a ground fight is boring. If the sport is to grow as a spectator sport, which means bigger pay days it has to be made more exciting IMO.
    I got 1 question, see with wresiling you can practice submissons all day long without getting hurt or hurting someone else, Well you cannot be pound on your bro's to get better, and street fight are going to get you in jail, Is it hard to practise MMA stiking style?? Kickboxing and boxing you cannot use knee's or elbow's so you missing out?

  11. #11
    BOUNCER is offline Retired Vet
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odin
    I got 1 question, see with wresiling you can practice submissons all day long without getting hurt or hurting someone else, Well you cannot be pound on your bro's to get better, and street fight are going to get you in jail, Is it hard to practise MMA stiking style?? Kickboxing and boxing you cannot use knee's or elbow's so you missing out?
    K-1 competition allows elbows and knee's as does Muay Thai. I practice kickboxing, which neither are allowed but thats my choice. If I was to fight MMA professionally you can bet your life I'd be fighting M.T.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by billy_ba
    would you then have the same rule with knock outs? Like if you get ko'd you lose rd1 but you still go on to fight other rounds? I dont think it would be fair to either fighter but it would be cool to see them beat the hell out of eachother for 3 rounds. As a fighter the way I look at it is it dosent matter if you win by an inch or a quarter mile, winning is winning.

    True that "winning is winning"

    That would totally suck chocolate-salty-balls to have to fight again right after you just got knocked out. The number of fighters would dwindle very quick.

    It sucks when you try to educate your buddies on MMA and they just get stubborn.
    When ever they start talking shzit about how when the fighters are grappling they look like they are fking each other, or how that submission was boring. I just whup their asses by putting them in all the submissions I know and tell them they better learn some respect..oh ya its funny to see tears come out when I make em call me daddy! lol!!!!

  13. #13
    BOUNCER is offline Retired Vet
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    Quote Originally Posted by phwSSJ
    True that "winning is winning"

    That would totally suck chocolate-salty-balls to have to fight again right after you just got knocked out. The number of fighters would dwindle very quick.

    It sucks when you try to educate your buddies on MMA and they just get stubborn.
    When ever they start talking shzit about how when the fighters are grappling they look like they are fking each other, or how that submission was boring. I just whup their asses by putting them in all the submissions I know and tell them they better learn some respect..oh ya its funny to see tears come out when I make em call me daddy! lol!!!!
    True, but all that doesn't do anything to promote the sport!.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by BOUNCER
    K-1 competition allows elbows and knee's as does Muay Thai. I practice kickboxing, which neither are allowed but thats my choice. If I was to fight MMA professionally you can bet your life I'd be fighting M.T.


    I think that elbows should be illegal, same with heel hooks....especially heel hooks.

    They are too dangerouse. Ya, you want to go and kick the guys ass in the ring but you also dont want to end any careers (heel hooks), if you do then you should not be allowed in the ring. Thats not what pro fighting is about.
    Elbows are kind of iffy. For the most part, they just get people cut really easy and can end a fight pre maturely... I personally dont like to get someone elses blood on me, although I always end up doing just that. Knees are my favorite!

    I love muay thai, but in order to be succesfull in MMA you have to be well rounded.

  15. #15
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    If you take something away it would no longer be a contest of skill but a contest of who adapts to the rules quicker. People need to open their eyes, it will just take time. Everyone wants to see the knockout or something get broken but that would not be true fighting. In japan, they get ground fighting because they realize that it is just as important to a true fight as punching is. Here in america, people see my cauliflower ear and have no idea what it is. It's just the culture. I give it 5-10 years before it is as popular as boxing. Personally, I like MMA being an underground thing. It makes me feel special to be a part of something that no one has a clue even exists.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BOUNCER
    K-1 competition allows elbows and knee's as does Muay Thai. I practice kickboxing, which neither are allowed but thats my choice. If I was to fight MMA professionally you can bet your life I'd be fighting M.T.
    Do you practice tie-ups with M.T. Also do you ever work on any anti-wresiling counters strikes. Where does your best arsenal come from? Far, medium, or close? Most stikers get frusterated when somone is grabbing them are tieing up with them. It good that M.T. practise knees and elbows, cause IMO knee's and elbows leave less room for a submission.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by billy_ba
    It makes me feel special to be a part of something that no one has a clue even exists.

    You can say that again!

    and you can tell that to Decadbol..lol!!!!!!!!! aaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhh haaaaaaahhhha!!!
    You guys have to go check out the AR lounge thread about brear hunting! lol

    Bouncer knows what I am talking about.

    Tie ups are a good point. I loove em, I love to set up knees and go blasting.

    I think knowing your ground game is very important to making your stand up game that much better.
    I look at it like this, if you are not worried about going to the groung or getting taken down then you can do whatever you want standing up, no restrictions, you can just let loose. That does not happen as much when a striker fights a ground fighter or a well rounded fighter for that matter.
    Last edited by phwSSJ; 12-21-2004 at 02:57 PM.

  18. #18
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    Billy, congrats on your victory in vegas!

    gotta love NAGA and Grapplers Quest!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by BOUNCER
    But I don't neccessarily think that a fight should finish on a tapout. 99% of times the fighter isn't incapacitated and could fight on for another round or two.
    Well If they didnt "tap out" then they would deffinatly be incapacitated, and not be able to fight, I mean that doesnt really make sense to me (no offense intended) But being put in a submission move is a hell of a lot more painfull then getting knocked out by a punch or kick to the head IMO. That is why they can tap out, because if they didnt, they would have a broken arm, or leg EVERY fight that a submission expert was in, just wouldnt be good. And all Boxing/kickboxing type fighters would have broken bones after a few good fights.

    Peace
    Alex

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    BOUNCER is offline Retired Vet
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArkansasAlex
    (no offense intended)
    Alex
    No offence taken. I asked if people could change one thing in MMA, so far no one else has suggested a change. So people, its the perfect game?.

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    BOUNCER is offline Retired Vet
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArkansasAlex
    (no offense intended)
    Alex
    No offence taken. I asked if people could change one thing in MMA, so far no one else has suggested a change. So people, its the perfect game?.

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    BOUNCER is offline Retired Vet
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArkansasAlex
    (no offense intended)
    Alex
    No offence taken. I asked if people could change one thing in MMA, so far no one else has suggested a change. So people, its the perfect game?.

  23. #23
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    I woud make the length of the rounds longer to 10 minutes if not no time limit at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by BOUNCER
    No offence taken. I asked if people could change one thing in MMA, so far no one else has suggested a change. So people, its the perfect game?.

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    Quote Originally Posted by billy_ba
    I woud make the length of the rounds longer to 10 minutes if not no time limit at all.
    Do you not think shortening the rounds to 3 or 4 minutes would speed it up and make it more exciting?.

    As a fighter I like the idea of longer rounds, but then it turns into a game of chess for the unitiated! (sp'ing).

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by BOUNCER
    Do you not think shortening the rounds to 3 or 4 minutes would speed it up and make it more exciting?.

    As a fighter I like the idea of longer rounds, but then it turns into a game of chess for the unitiated! (sp'ing).
    Well I guess they could have a limit on the ground, so If their's no punches or a new postion have not been performed within a certain amount of time it goes to standing again. I know they have a rule kinda like this but I think it should be more strict. Like no 30 seconds can go without things going on. Some grappiliers will stall things out on the ground and wait for their energy depletes before moveing in.

  26. #26
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    I would personally like to see headbutts back in.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by billy_ba
    If you take something away it would no longer be a contest of skill but a contest of who adapts to the rules quicker.
    Tha is true to an extent.
    Taking away heel hooks and elbows will not take away from the contest of skills at all. It just keeps the fighters safe.
    You can heal quick from an arm bar and all those other submissions,
    heel hooks are so **** dangerouse because the attack concentrates on the ACL. You cant feel the pain until its too late cuz its a ligament. Then you have to have surgery and then you probably cant fight for another year.
    It is definitly not worth it, and there are other much safer leg submissions. It will not take away from the sport.
    Plus its no big deal for the spectator.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArkansasAlex
    Well If they didnt "tap out" then they would deffinatly be incapacitated, and not be able to fight, I mean that doesnt really make sense to me (no offense intended) But being put in a submission move is a hell of a lot more painfull then getting knocked out by a punch or kick to the head IMO. That is why they can tap out, because if they didnt, they would have a broken arm, or leg EVERY fight that a submission expert was in, just wouldnt be good. And all Boxing/kickboxing type fighters would have broken bones after a few good fights.

    Peace
    Alex

    HELL YA,

    I am living proof of that. Before I explain why let me just say that sometimes I would rather have a dude knock me out than break my arm. That stuff hurts way too much!

    I was fighting this dude 6'6" I think and 275. (Im sure some of you guys read this already) He put me in a neck crank submission, well I was so full of piss n' vinegar that I didnt tap, I eventually got out and beat him. Later that day I couldnt move my neck. Long st. sht. He ruptured my cervical(neck) disk. I went through months of extreem pain before I had surgery, That was eight months ageo. Now its gona be another year before I can fight again.
    If that is what it takes to please the fans then f--k the fans!!!!!!

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by BOUNCER
    No offence taken. I asked if people could change one thing in MMA, so far no one else has suggested a change. So people, its the perfect game?.


    Take away heel hooks

    Give fighters more money,
    Do something to beat the politics and corruption cuz thats whats holding us back!

    I think the five minute rounds are good, 3-5 rounds like the UFC. Keeps things competitive, makes the fighter have to use strategy more.

    They definitley should not take any more away from the ground game.
    You wouldnt be able to call it MMA any more if you did that.

    Head-butts are awesom but its hard to say, Personaly I love head buts they look cool as hell too. But I think they fall under the same category as elbows so thats why they dont have them.

    Oh ya and get some ring girls that dont look like crack whores with nasty cellulite!!!


    PEACE
    Last edited by phwSSJ; 12-21-2004 at 09:56 PM.

  30. #30
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    No weight classes and it should be tournament be single elimination just like it was when the UFC began.

  31. #31
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    Bring Back Head Butting!!!!

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    Odin is offline Member
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    I think they could have more events, Like all the military's could have their best group of 5 fighters and have a course where they can challege another country's 5 best fighters at the same time? Sounds crazy stupid, but I bet it would sell. Hey Bouncer think it would be fun to take on England's top 5, with your Irish boy's or would you back down like a yellow-belly coward JK

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    BOUNCER is offline Retired Vet
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odin
    I think they could have more events, Like all the military's could have their best group of 5 fighters and have a course where they can challege another country's 5 best fighters at the same time? Sounds crazy stupid, but I bet it would sell. Hey Bouncer think it would be fun to take on England's top 5, with your Irish boy's or would you back down like a yellow-belly coward JK
    Military forces around the world do compete. Check out CISM military games on Google sometime. I'm competing in St.Petersburg, Russia in July.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by BOUNCER
    Military forces around the world do compete. Check out CISM military games on Google sometime. I'm competing in St.Petersburg, Russia in July.
    What kind of competition?

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    Quote Originally Posted by phwSSJ
    What kind of competition?

    In my case it'll be Judo. However Judo and boxing is represented, among a host of other sports. Sorry I can't reply to you in the other thread, but my time here is very limited (I'm in work) untill I get a new computer at home.

    Happy new year.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by BOUNCER
    In my case it'll be Judo. However Judo and boxing is represented, among a host of other sports. Sorry I can't reply to you in the other thread, but my time here is very limited (I'm in work) untill I get a new computer at home.

    Happy new year.


    GOOD LUCK on your competition, definitly let us know how it goes ..and if you can, some pics.
    I think I alredy told you HNY so..

    Later Bro!

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