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  1. #1
    MIGHTY_DOG is offline New Member
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    Do We Need Carbs?

    What's the 411 on carbs. Starches and sugars, do we need them. Since there have been alot of reports that carbs can induce fat, and that people are getting fat on carb overdose. Do we still need carbs and is there a way to get the energy we need in out diets without carbs, say from health fats? What's everybody's take on this?

  2. #2
    Cousin Eddie's Avatar
    Cousin Eddie is offline Associate Member
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    Muscle glycogen is a big issue for people resistance training. As far as do we truly "need" carbs, it has been said before, "There is no such thing as an essential carb."

  3. #3
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    Buddha_Red is offline Senior Member
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    i dont have any case studies to back me up but i tried cutting out all carbs when i was doing the atkins diet back a few months ago.

    ive never been so sick in my life, now many people love that diet but for me if i cut it all out its zombie time for me.

  4. #4
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    i cant workout withoout carbs i feel like shit in the gym

  5. #5
    Pheedno is offline Respected Member
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    Proper brain function is fueled by carbohydrates.
    I don't think cutting carbs out totally is a smart/healthy way to do things for an extended period of time.

    If doing a keto diet in a moderate time frame(say pre-contest), I think it can be benificial to fat loss, but I believe the body needs'em for proper function and effecient health.

    Carb depletion gets into more than just fat loss. You need to study the effects on metabolism, immune system, cognizance, and hygene for anyones sake.
    Have you ever smelled the breath of a man thats been on carb depletion for a month.

  6. #6
    williampowers is offline Junior Member
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    DO WE NEED AIR????? LOL
    Carbs are crucial for metabolism function. Carb depletion is good for depletion of water retention say come comp time but I found that depleting carbs also eats muscle so it should not be done for too long.
    Last edited by williampowers; 08-27-2002 at 12:17 PM.

  7. #7
    nuke is offline Member
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    carbs are evil.... I can go low/no carbs for 3 weeks lose weight. The day I carb up again I feel sick and bloated. I think carbs should be taken in very moerdately...

    Pete , I know yu disagree, but i think everyons body adapts to things differently.
    JMO !

    Nuke

  8. #8
    BIG GEOFF is offline New Member
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    carbs

    do we need carbs? try a 15 week diet for a show and then carb deplete for 3-4 days and your body will answer that question for you BIG TIME.

  9. #9
    RCK's Avatar
    RCK
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    yup,you got to play with them to find the right amount of carbs you may need for your specific training etc..but you gotta have em.....you maybe be able to go close to zero carbs sometimes but it's hard to go no carbs all the time........

  10. #10
    tigress's Avatar
    tigress is offline Retired Female Moderator
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    Originally posted by Pheedno
    Proper brain function is fueled by carbohydrates.
    I don't think cutting carbs out totally is a smart/healthy way to do things for an extended period of time.

    If doing a keto diet in a moderate time frame(say pre-contest), I think it can be benificial to fat loss, but I believe the body needs'em for proper function and effecient health.

    Carb depletion gets into more than just fat loss. You need to study the effects on metabolism, immune system, cognizance, and hygene for anyones sake.
    Have you ever smelled the breath of a man thats been on carb depletion for a month.
    Ditto. This is what I was going to type.

  11. #11
    Cousin Eddie's Avatar
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    I hope there is room for differing opinions on this thread. I am not trying to flame at all, but I am going to lean more towards Nukes theory on this one. I will agree that a low carb - low fat diet will wreck your body. I believe the same is true of a high carb - low fat diet. I do stand firm behind the idea of a low carb - high natural fat diet.
    Brain Function-
    The brain composed of a very high percentage of fat. The blood-brain barrier lets in oxygen, most water soluble nutrients, and most fat soluble nutrients. It will not let in large chain proteins. The preferred carrier of lipid soluble structures is EFA's. They are essential to providing nutrients to the brain.
    Dr. Judith Wurtman of MIT conducted a study which showed that excessive carbohydrate consumption lowered test performance scores.
    EFA's make up the majority of the "white matter" in the brain. It is believed that a deficiency in EFA's causes the myelin sheath to decrease the speed of messages inside the brain.
    Fat Storage-
    Page 871 of the Textbook of Medical Physiology states that..."an excess of carbohydrates in the diet not only act as a fat sparer, but also increases the fat in the fat stores. In fact, all excess carbohydrates not used for energy or stored in the small glycogen deposits of the body are converted to fat and stored as such."
    I can get into immune problems related to excess carbs and other things, but dont want to make this too long to read. I think it is obvious that there are two distinct "camps" on this issue.
    Pheedno, please dont take offense to this post, I enjoy your posts and respect you opinion. I just have a different one on this issue.
    Last edited by Cousin Eddie; 08-28-2002 at 10:46 AM.

  12. #12
    Pheedno is offline Respected Member
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    Originally posted by Cousin Eddie
    . I do stand firm behind the idea of a low carb - high natural fat diet.

    Pheedno, please dont take offense to this post, I enjoy your posts and respect you opinion. I just have a different one on this issue.
    No offense at all bro, thats what the board is for.

    When you talk about low carb though, what amount are talking about?

    I am strictly speaking in terms of prolonged ketosis(0-25g of carbs), not a low carb diet(120-180g).
    I usually consume about 120-160g of carbs off cycle(not including veggies, which I consider moderately low, but not to a point of malnutrition. My fat content is upwards of around 50-65g

  13. #13
    Cousin Eddie's Avatar
    Cousin Eddie is offline Associate Member
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    When you talk about low carb though, what amount are talking about?
    Good question. My personal diet right now is 75g dextrose with 50g protein post workout. (4 days per week) That is my total daily carbs. I am going to tweak this in hopes of eventually finding the minimum amount that works for me. I go total keto on non workout days and throw in a cheat day here and there. I use 4 to 5 tbsp. of an EFA blend plus whatever meat and cheese I eat during the day. I dont really track fat, but I do get it only from organic EFA's and natural fats. No transfats. I get 300 to 350g of protein also.

    My point is that I think people underestimate the value of Essential Fatty Acids and overestimate the value of carbs and fibers. I think the food pyramid and the low fat diet fad are all government created lies that I hate to see people buy into.

    There is a great paper by Dr. Mary Enid called "The Oiling of America." It is a history of how Americans were decieved by the govt. and by large food mfgs. for the sake of shelf life. They know, and have always known, that tranfats and hydrogenated oils were killers. But when you need corn oil to be able to sit on a shelf for 5 years, you do what you gotta do.

  14. #14
    tigress's Avatar
    tigress is offline Retired Female Moderator
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    Originally posted by Cousin Eddie
    Fat Storage-
    Page 871 of the Textbook of Medical Physiology states that..."an excess of carbohydrates in the diet not only act as a fat sparer, but also increases the fat in the fat stores. In fact, all excess carbohydrates not used for energy or stored in the small glycogen deposits of the body are converted to fat and stored as such."
    How does this textbook define an excess of carbohydrates?

  15. #15
    Cousin Eddie's Avatar
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    It states simply that all carbohydrate which are not burned for energy, or stored as glycogen deposits, are converted to and stored as bodyfat. IMO, the trick is determining exactly how much your body uses for glycogen replenishment. That is what I am attempting to do by tweaking the post workout shake.

  16. #16
    superbeast's Avatar
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    I have a question for you guys that say you need to keep your carbs low. Are any of you "big"? My guess is no!

    Clean carbs are a must for building muscle. Period!

    I'm 253 lbs, at 6.19% bodyfat. I eat a minimum of 700 grams of carbs a day. Sometimes as much as 1000 grams.

    If you learn to workout right and control your metabolism, carbs will not make you fat.

  17. #17
    Cousin Eddie's Avatar
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    Cant argue with results like that Super Beast. What ratios work for you? %protein, carb, fat, etc.

  18. #18
    superbeast's Avatar
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    Fat is less than 10% of total calorie intake.
    Carbs are somewhere between 1.5 to 2 times that of my protein intake.
    I do 4-5 half hour cardio sessions first thing in the morning every week, whether bulking or not.

  19. #19
    Gene is offline Associate Member
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    Originally posted by Buddha_Red
    i dont have any case studies to back me up but i tried cutting out all carbs when i was doing the atkins diet back a few months ago.

    ive never been so sick in my life, now many people love that diet but for me if i cut it all out its zombie time for me.
    Funny you say that... In actuallity, when you get sick your body often goes into a state of ketosis, so keto dies, and other very low carb variations are often called the "make yourself sick" diets. So yea, they sorta make you "sick"...

  20. #20
    Gene is offline Associate Member
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    Originally posted by superbeast
    I have a question for you guys that say you need to keep your carbs low. Are any of you "big"? My guess is no!

    Clean carbs are a must for building muscle. Period!
    Amen.

    I'm so sick and tired of research studies that test everything EXCEPT effects on physique and muscle mass, yet come to all sorts of rediculous conclusions that the public accepts as fact.

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