Androgel, secondary exposure to wife and children concern (new member)

**Enfuego129** · 12-25-2009, 05:38 PM

Hello, I am a 42 yo male who was recently diagnosed with low Testosterone (252) after a routine wellness physical. This diagnosis and treatment might offer answers to general mood, weight, energy and libido problems I have had over the last 3 to 5 years. Now that I have what I hope is an accurate diagnosis and treatment I now have questions about the use of Androgel that was prescribed. I agree that some of these questions are for my doctor but want as much information as I can get for this TRT issue. Currently, I have been on Androgel for four days and have several questions not fully answered when I called the makers of Androgel. FYI, I am also concerned about secondary contact while using it. I have two young children at home (3 and 5 yo) and want to make sure that they do not come in contact with it. Unfortunately, Androgels website and phone in help line for offered only general safety guidelines (lawyer friendly answers).

Since this is my first prescription and having no knowledge of Testosterone and TRT I did not know what to discuss with my doctor or what options I have. Injectibles might be an answer to most of my concerns but at this time I do not know where my Doctor will weigh in on them. I have become a student of TRT in the last week and joined because of the above diagnosis. Otherwise I know little about TRT and hormone therapy.

If you are able to answer any or all of these questions you would help put my mind at ease greatly. Sorry for the long first post but I have lots of questions. THANK YOU!

1) Can my children receive an exposure to this drug if they lay on my side of the bed or use my pillow. I routinely wear a t-shirt while sleeping but am concerned about my shoulders contacting the pillow or bed sheets and leaving residual Androgel and Testosterone ?

2) Same question if they use my bath towel to dry their hands. I use my own wash cloths and they will not have access to them? Should I separate my laundry?

3) If while playing with my children I perspire could they get a secondary contact from my covered shoulders?

4) Regarding workouts where I sweat. Should I wait until the workout is over to apply. FYI these workouts would be generally 2-3 hrs or more after Androgel applications?

5) I have found my mood improving in the short while I have been taking this but have noticed being irritable in the evening. Currently using the lowest recommended dose of four pumps (5mg?). I am wondering if it might be wearing off toward evening.Obviously a question for my doctor but thought I would post it anyway.

6) I have read that supplementing with Zinc and Tribulus Terrestris will help a low T condition. I am reluctant to supplement since it is not covered by my insurance. I am also concerned the supplementing may skew my followup blood work next month. Any thoughts from someone that has supplemented.

7) Regarding weight loss while on Androgel, I am 6'0" have a large frame and weigh 255lbs. I work out regularly to control my weight as much as possible (obese BMI of about 33-35%) would love to finally drop about 40 lbs over time. Any advice on what to do to take full advantage of the extra Testosterone my body is now receiving. FYI, I usually get 30 to 45 minutes of cardio and an hour of resistance training when I get to the gym two to three times a week.

8) Regarding injections, what drug might my doctor prescribe, how many CC's do you guys use for low testosterone treatments (range is fine) , how often, and what gauge needle. Are some better for weight loss while treating for low T? FYI I am a paramedic and am comfortable with giving injections.

**Vettester** · 12-25-2009, 09:41 PM

Welcome to the board, and best of luck with your health related goals in 2010.

For starters, I wouldn't get too worried about the secondary contact stuff with AndroGel . You probably notice that the stuff dries after applying within a few minutes. Just wipe yourself down after it has completely dried, as for the actual testosterone is in your blood system by this time.

Since you seem to be okay with injections, then IMO that's the way to go. You will find most guys on HRT using 23g or 25g x 1-1/2" needles for injecting in the glutes. Amounts vary, usually ranging from 100mg/wk to 200mg/wk, but your doctor might go with something differently based on your blood work and stats. You will definitely want to keep an eye on the estrogen stats too, which doctors will usually prescribe an AI like Arimidex /Anastrozole to include as part of the HRT program.

Hope this helps, and there's definitely a lot of support and information for you on this forum. You will find lots of members here (including myself) who used to be on AndroGel, but are now doing injections. IMO, the there is no comparison.

**amcon** · 12-25-2009, 11:29 PM

screw andro gel... get test e or c asap

**zaggahamma** · 12-26-2009, 07:04 AM

agree with amcon....

youre gonna stress too much unnecessarily with that expensive bs gel...you cant take a chance with that shiat around your women....takes too long EVERY FVKING DAY...

a shot a week and an apple a day

welcome

**amcon** · 12-26-2009, 05:38 PM

ditto... x1000

**Enfuego129** · 12-26-2009, 05:39 PM

Thanks for the replies fellas,

This diagnosis kinda hit me by surprise in a good way and am encouraged by what I have read so far. I sounds like every aspect of my life will improve and make me a better person, father and husband. As I said earlier I have soooo many questions about this treatment.

1) You stated contact with the applications sites isn't an issue after it is dry, I thought it was always an issue. Is it only a issue while in the gel form and wet?

2) I do not know if they tested for estrogen during the original blood work so I am assuming it wasn't done. My reading has taught me that estrogen binds available T and renders it useless. It actually sounds like the estrogen and low T has probably caused some of my weight gain. Should I wait until early February for the scheduled followup blood work before considering supplementing to suppress the estrogen. I want accurate test results at that time and would wait if necessary for proper treatment. If they find that estrogen is a problem I would prefer using a prescription drug to control the estrogen if it is high. I have good insurance so cost shouldn't be an issue. The Androgel script only cost me $6.00. If you think I should investigate supplementing now what do you recommend. Zinc and Tribulus seems to come up in topics about estrogen frequently.

3) Regarding resistance training and cardio any advise? What supplements would you recommended to lean out and tone up to take advantage of the extra T my body is getting. What about the timing of workouts after my daily dose of Androgel. Ill probably be on it until early February.

**flatscat** · 12-27-2009, 09:59 AM

There is always a risk of exposure to your children or wife. I would not take a chance with the gels or creams. It is not worth the gamble, and not worth the worry of it on your part.

**Vettester** · 12-27-2009, 09:20 PM

Originally Posted by Enfuego129

Thanks for the replies fellas,

This diagnosis kinda hit me by surprise in a good way and am encouraged by what I have read so far. I sounds like every aspect of my life will improve and make me a better person, father and husband. As I said earlier I have soooo many questions about this treatment.

1) You stated contact with the applications sites isn't an issue after it is dry, I thought it was always an issue. Is it only a issue while in the gel form and wet?

2) I do not know if they tested for estrogen during the original blood work so I am assuming it wasn't done. My reading has taught me that estrogen binds available T and renders it useless. It actually sounds like the estrogen and low T has probably caused some of my weight gain. Should I wait until early February for the scheduled followup blood work before considering supplementing to suppress the estrogen. I want accurate test results at that time and would wait if necessary for proper treatment. If they find that estrogen is a problem I would prefer using a prescription drug to control the estrogen if it is high. I have good insurance so cost shouldn't be an issue. The Androgel script only cost me $6.00. If you think I should investigate supplementing now what do you recommend. Zinc and Tribulus seems to come up in topics about estrogen frequently.

3) Regarding resistance training and cardio any advise? What supplements would you recommended to lean out and tone up to take advantage of the extra T my body is getting. What about the timing of workouts after my daily dose of Androgel. Ill probably be on it until early February.

Enfuego, I'll try to clarify this, as for I used to be on that stuff. You're basically at the lowest dose they offer on AndroGel. I used to take it in the morning, keep my shirt on, then wash it before contact. Is there a possibility that some can carry over? Yes. Is it something you should freak out about? No. Just keep the shoulder or ab area covered, and again ... Wash the area with soap and water to play it safe. I was on that stuff for 6 months and my wife only grew a beard once ... JK. Seriously, what everyone here will agree on the most is that AndroGel isn't worth the risk or the price, and injections are the only way to go. And actually, IMO, there's risk on your end too. I had some real unstable stats on that stuff (gel) after about 6 months, and I've read similar stories from other members.

I've got some comments on your paragraphs, #2 & #3, and will post later. Looking at some turkey and brown rice that needs to be dealt with on this end.

**Enfuego129** · 12-27-2009, 10:15 PM

I've got some comments on your paragraphs, #2 & #3, and will post later. Looking at some turkey and brown rice that needs to be dealt with on this end.[/QUOTE]

Thanks Vettemen, I am sending my wife to the doctor this week for a unrelated cough. While there I am asking her to discuss this drug with our doctor. This doctor is our GP and is the same one that is treating me for TRT. I am also asking her to request baseline bloodwork so we may know if we are having a problem later. I am being ultra careful with contact, but unfortunately I wont know if it is enough until we have a problem...then it is too late.

Vette, take your time with your replies unless you are on a roll. It is 10pm here in Chicago and I am going to bed soon. I may not catch yours and other replies until tomorrow evening. Thanks for helping me out.

**Vettester** · 12-27-2009, 10:20 PM

Okay, as far as estrogen ... What tests did they run for you to determine that you needed TRT? If your doc is anything like my primary doc, then the only thing they ran is total testosterone . I ended up going to an Anti Aging Clinic, where they ran a complete hormone panel, lipid panel, PSA, etc., before determining what route to go. In your personal situation, I would take estrogen seriously, along with all the other stats that are associated with hormones.

Getting your hormone levels balanced will definitely put you in a position to optimize your health. However, that's only part of it, and it's only partially responsible for why we get out of shape. The main variable needed is a lifestyle change. DIET is #1 and exercise/cardio right behind it. You have made a commitment to learn about HRT, and that's great, but make the same pledge in the diet section of this forum, as for it will be instrumental to make your goals a reality. Just for the record, I presume all is okay with the thyroid and kidneys, heart, etc.?

Lastly, I wouldn't get overly carried away with supplements at this stage. IMO, a good multi-vitamin, protein mix, EFA's and maybe CLA would be a good compliment to your program. I don't want to burst your bubble, but there is no magical window of timing with AndroGel . If you look on the anabolic effectiveness chart, AndroGel is pretty much at the bottom of the barrel. Like my first post to you stated, there's no comparison to the injections. Would really be curious what your doctor says to you if you pose some questions. Please keep us posted.

Best,
VM

**Enfuego129** · 12-28-2009, 05:36 AM

VM, regarding the physical and bloodwork, I received a comprehensive physical with stress test wich included the following; bloodwork, a 12 lead ECG with a stress test (BRUCE protocol), hearing, vision, spyromotry, flexibility, BMI using calipers and Toneda scale. Currently no hypertenstion, no diabetes or cholesterol issues. Actually my good cholesterol HDL is on the high side which I was told is due to excess estrogen, it is currently 60 which is up from last years 51. My LDL is 100 and triglicerides at 96 both are down from last year. All OK physically other than loosing weight.

Regarding the bloodwork they did the following; Lipid panel, Comprehensive Metabolic panel with EGFR, TSH (3rd genration), CBC (includes diff/plt), Total testosterone , PSA total, urinalysis reflex. Somewhere somewhere in there is a Thyroid test (TSH?) which I requested along with the Testosterone and PSA. All bloodwork came in within the labs "normal range" except the testosterone.

Regarding the supplements, I have never been big into them other than a GNC multivitamin. The reason I was focusing on them is because of the Estrogen. Dont certain supplements have some blocking ability?

Its 0530 as I am typing this and I need to leave for work. FYI, I am a full time Firefighter, 24 hrs on 48 off, so I may not be able to post until this evening if we are slow.

**Vettester** · 12-28-2009, 11:47 AM

Actually the tests are pretty good based on the stats. It looks like they've ran a pretty extensive panel with a lot of key areas. However, is total testosterone the only hormone they checked? You said they attribute one of your lipid profiles to estrogen, but did they actually run estradiol/estrogen, progesterone, LH, etc.? To me, it would be easier knowing what the levels are and get yourself on a proven AI like Arimidex , then have some new BW done shortly thereafter to see where you sit. If you take some OTC supplement, you will just be guessing and hoping that it is working. Like mentioned before, HRT is about balance. Your doctor has the ability to take all the guesswork out of it for you, which is what they should be doing for you.

BTW, thanks for your efforts with being a FF! That's courageous stuff!

**Enfuego129** · 12-28-2009, 07:46 PM

VM and others,
This post may come in as a duplicate reply since I sent something this afternoon from my Blackberry that isn't here. You are correct, no other hormonal tests were done at that initial blood draw. I imagine my followup blood work in early February will include those other tests you mentioned. If not planned I will request them.

FYI, today is the fifth day I have been on Androgel and I actually haven't felt this good in a long time. I woke up this morning after roughly 6 hrs sleep last night feeling rested. I would also say my mood and patience are above normal, my mental clarity and memory seems improved as well. Today I also feel that I had increased energy, in the past I have felt tired and ready for bed about now. So far no complaints other than the exposure issues. Being intimate with my wife while wearing a shirt was weird. I also imagine washing or taking a shower just before the act will seem planned out and lack the spontaneity we all want.