TRT - please, please help!

**blanko** · 06-22-2011, 04:15 PM

New here and from the UK (lurking for a while) and was hoping for some advice relating to TRT - a urologist has been treating me for about 18 months and i've realised he doesn't know what he's doing!!! (common theme in the UK it seems). I am at my wits end and REALLY in need of some advice. Beyond despair if i'm honest!!

I have never used AAS and I am convinced my low test was caused by overtraining and cronic under eating or possibly pituitary related?? I have used many supplements but I honestly don't remember taking anything like a prohormone etc.

I suffered with what turned out to be low test levels for nearly 2 years before I went to my GP about it (28, i'm 30 now). He was switched on enough to test my test and the results came back as 1 nmol/L (normal range 8-35 I think)

He admitted he didn't know anything about it himself and wasn't even sure if i should see an endo or a urologist but he would check... I was referred to a urologist...

The uro took one look at my test level and immediately put me on TRT. Did no other testing! He didn't explain what it would entail, that i would be on it for life and that i would never have kids! I'm gutted now, to have only realised these facts recently...

One injection every three months to begin with and began bloods - test only! These showed my test was in normal range for a few weeks and then dropped badly. Eventually he had me on injections every 6 weeks and this is were i am now (sorry, I don't even know exactly what he's injecting or how much)!

Initially, I was just glad to be able to get it up again and felt great, most of the time. But now, the up's and down's are horrendous, mood swings, depression, lethargy, complete mental fatigue, emotional etc etc!! I have puffy nipples as well (I had these from a child but I feel as if it's getting worse!) and bloating and belly fat I just can't shift. He dismisses all of this...

Here are some recent blood tests I had done (he normally asks me just to get testosterone checked but I blagged the other readings from the nurse myself)

Taken about 10 days after my last injection...
serum test - 21.4nmol/L (8.8 -36.7)

Taken about a month after my last injection and ten days before my next, due soon...
serum test - 16.5nmol/L (8.8-36.7)
serum prolactin - 218mu/L (84-324)
serum oestradiol - 117pmol/L
serum LH - 0.1U/L (1.7-8.6)
serum FSH - 0.1U/L (1.5-12.4)

Can anyone provide any insight into these readings or any advice for the future, coming off (is it possible?), self medicating, or fertility and my possibility of ever having kids? I can live with being on this for life if I had to, but not having kids and possibly developing gyno are killing me...

Are AI's, HCG things I should look at? Will I get them on the NHS? Getting them myself will be a big problem for various reasons as I assume it's ilegal?

I went through a few months were he had me on testogel instead of injections (i was travelling). I felt much better on these, however he had me applying it two times a day and then said that my test levels were too high at 35.8nmol/L and took me off it. Is this too high? It's still just within the normal range and I felt good, better than the injections, although it was inconvenient. Should I ask to go back on this?

I have an appointment with him soon but I am going to ask my GP to refer me to an endo to see if i can get better treatment.

Thank you if you read this far and, please, any advice is welcome. It will mean a lot!!

**38jumper38** · 06-22-2011, 04:50 PM

Sorry to ear that you are in such mess. I'n not sure how's trt work in UK, Marcus will be the best guy to help you out, but here in USA we usually deal with weekly injections, with doses from 100mg to 200mg/week, test cypionate , I'm not sure what kind of testosterone you had, haven't eared any one that you shot every 6 weeks. And AI always follow the protocol, means that every time you shot testosterone, your estrogen levels will rise, so there is a need for estrogen blocker, also, HCG is needed during trt to prevent testicular shrinkage and infertility, as you mention, about kids, you need to look at hcg for sure, you really need to look for a new doc (there is no reason to continue with the one you have), have some blood work done, and have all those meds available for you.

**blanko** · 06-22-2011, 04:56 PM

Thanks,

A new doctor is a must I know!

I think I'll ask to go back on the gels because at least then I'm getting the regular test. I agree that the injects so far apart are strange and I will ask about this when I see him next! I think to get any sort of proper treatment in the UK, i'm going to have to do this myself, some how!!

**38jumper38** · 06-22-2011, 05:03 PM

doing with the doc is the easy way, quality meds, blood work, and gels is not to efficient as injections.

**sirupate** · 06-23-2011, 06:10 AM

I sort of doubt this...but infrequent injections would be used with Nebido which is probably approved for use in the UK. His levels sure don't seem too good if he is being dosed with Nebido though. You definately need a UK helper here...

**blanko** · 06-23-2011, 09:27 AM

Ok, I will ask if it's Nebido...

Any UK help out there would be fantastic!

I'm really concerned that I have no AI or HCG but I don't think these are given in the UK, even if I ask... How much trouble am I in with TRT alone?

Can anyone provide any feedback on my levels? My Oestradiol at 117 (normal range 50-200?). LH and FSH are way out of range too...

I'm lost!

**sirupate** · 06-23-2011, 09:38 AM

Originally Posted by blanko

Ok, I will ask if it's Nebido...

Any UK help out there would be fantastic!

I'm really concerned that I have no AI or HCG but I don't think these are given in the UK, even if I ask... How much trouble am I in with TRT alone?

Can anyone provide any feedback on my levels? My Oestradiol at 117 (normal range 50-200?). LH and FSH are way out of range too...

I'm lost!

I think Nebido is testosterone undocanate...or something close to that. LH and FSH levels would seem to indicate your HTPA is shut-down, unless it wasn't functioning properly before TRT. Most of us that have been on TRT for 18 months would have LH and FSH levels similar to yours. It basically means that your pituitary isn't signaling your testes to make testosterone any more. All the supply your body thinks it needs is coming from your TRT. HCG could change that to a degree. Your estradiol levels appear to be in normal range, but you may be happier a little lower, or higher depending on symptoms. At least your levels are not at the high end (or low end).

**blanko** · 06-23-2011, 03:23 PM

Again, thanks for the input.

Just to update this, I met with my Urologist today... KEEP READING, IT GETS INTERESTING...

I am/was on Nebido (more on this later). For me, it felt horrible. Your test rises and then slowly drops (often quite low) until your next injection (usually 8-12 weeks apart). I was getting mine every six weeks and still felt horrible!

He would not entertain the idea of an AI or HCG (standard practice in the UK sadly) and said that my fertility should be fine or they can deal with that when it becomes an issue for me...

I am now on the gels again (again more later), two a day, which should see my test levels at the top end of the normal range.

My question is should/could I add an AI to this myself, aromasin or adex? Would this do me any harm? I am worried about my puffy nipples though I've no pain/lumps and it could just be fat, I have put on some weight but not a huge amount... However, I see only benefits to adding an AI, am I right??

OK the interesting part... so he could see my despair at all of this and offered me an alternative opportunity.

He is involved with a research group that is soon to be testing an oral TRT pill in the UK. He claims it is the most exciting thing he has seen in male health since Viagra.

They need a dozen volunteers to test this product, I will take a pill once a week and then stay over in the research facility that night and have tests done the morning after. This will continue for 4-6 weeks.

They will pay me $3500 to do this.

The problem is I will have to come off my TRT for 3-4 weeks before the trials begin in September. I know I will crash horribly but, I'd kind of like to see what my test results look like during this time to get a better idea of were I am.. I think I will take part... With that in mind the gels were the best option for me to take for the next few months leading up to this trial as I can easily come off them when required, rather than timing a Nebido shot (it's what I wanted anyway, in the short term...)