TRT protocol

**moparmuscle** · 12-28-2011, 12:23 AM

Hello, joined this site just for the HRT section. I've been on HRT for a year now ever since I turned 30. Had symtoms for years which my PCP always shrugged off until I finally took matters into my own hands had had some full blood panels down though labcorp which showed test levels under 200 on both occasions tested (among other things like an under normal range low ifg level). Currently work with a tela (via phone/internet/email) FL anti aging clinic and Dr

Current HRT looks like this:

150mg test c - e5d
150mg deca - e7d
2iu HGH - 5on/2off - done at 3am after natural release - just starting this
250iu hcg - e5d
Adex - as needed (I don't convert much at all)
Topical dhea - 30mg Ed

Feel like a 20 year old and have the sex drive of one.

Last blood test everything was within range with total test (day 5 after injection ) 1100ish so high normal, free test high normal, e2 26 etc.. Dr seems happy keeping me high normal so long as the other blood work/functions are healthy. I am currently planning on lowering (under Drs care) the dose of test c to 100mg e4d as I personally think 1100 on day 5 is too high. We also are going to play with the deca to see what the lowest dose I can run and still get the joint effects, mores not always better long term after all. Gotta love tela medicine.

Hopefully I can continue to learn about this lifelong commitment and help were I can with others.

Anyone here (male and over 200lb) ran 1.5iu hgh with decent igf levels as a result, I'm thinking about trying this 1st rather then 2iu and doing some new blood tests at the same time as the lower test/deca dose.

**blacksmoke** · 12-28-2011, 12:43 AM

Welcome to the forum. I recognize you from another forum.
How long have you been running the deca at 150 mg p/w?

**moparmuscle** · 12-28-2011, 12:55 AM

Deca I have been running on/off for almost year. I want to get to the lowest dose I can with joint benefits so I plan on dropping to 100mg every 7 days for a few months then to 75mg and so on until I figure out what the min dose is for ME with the benefits I want/need (enough to keep lifting heavy at the gym and/or retain full function for other active stuff). I have some pretty bad damage that I've seen a few very good specialists about. Surgery would be a temp fix ad deca makes me feel like new.

The current dose is lower then my last of 200 and the effects (for joints) are as good, I'm hopeful that 75mg will work. Would save me money on the script and less is more when I'm injecting a drug into my body long term.

**blacksmoke** · 12-28-2011, 01:04 AM

I agree that less is more when talking long term!

**FONZY007** · 12-28-2011, 02:02 AM

I'm starting to see ppl that turn to trt are also on deca , what's the purpose .. Joints?

Also the tropical dhea?

I'm 30 also and see an endo and my health insurance pays for my script of test

I run 50mg of test c every 3.5 days and adex .25mg the day of injection

**moparmuscle** · 12-28-2011, 02:07 AM

In my case yes bad joints. Some crushed / damaged cartilage etc in the right shoulder (think of the socket as a pie, the joint as a basketball, well my pie crust has been crushed by the ball rolling around were it shouldnt). And a bad knee. I will probably have to get surgery (also a temp fix but it would "clean it up in there") but for now low dose deca (and I want it lower even) is a temporary solution. I'm not sure how accepted it's use would be with "normal" healthcare but the anti aging clinics seem happy to script it for those that need it.

Topical dhea - it's just over the counter

**ecdysone** · 12-28-2011, 09:05 AM

Originally Posted by moparmuscle

Hello, joined this site just for the HRT section.

Welcome here!

Also recognize you from another site - the one dominated by a commercial vendor

I'm starting to call this place my "home," there are some incredible guys (especially the ones with red screen names) who populate this site that not only offer good advice, but seem to care
about each other.

**moparmuscle** · 12-28-2011, 09:22 AM

Thanks. I've seen you give some solid advice before and am looking forward to seeing more of it.

Any thoughts on my current program and plans for it? (lowering dosing etc).

Originally Posted by ecdysone

Welcome here!

Also recognize you from another site - the one dominated by a commercial vendor

I'm starting to call this place my "home," there are some incredible guys (especially the ones with red screen names) who populate this site that not only offer good advice, but seem to care
about each other.

**steroid.com 1** · 12-28-2011, 11:13 AM

Total Test at this point is less important than your bioavailable and/or percent free assays.

Do you have either of those and can you post your most recent blood work complete with ranges?

I too am very high normal (over 1100) but bioavailable was 65% and percent free was 2.5% which is super ideal.

The use of DHEA is to help back fill the pathways. This hormone should be tested as DHEA-S as well.

Additionally, one can add Pregnenolone as well.

Back filling pathways when on exogenous testosterone is very important in my opinion.

**moparmuscle** · 12-28-2011, 11:19 AM

I'll look tonight. Everything bio, free and total were high high normal. Free test was above range high I think.

Originally Posted by gdevine

Total Test at this point is less important than your bioavailable and/or percent free assays.

Do you have either of those and can you post your most recent blood work complete with ranges?

I too am very high normal (over 1100) but bioavailable was 65% and percent free was 2.5% which is super ideal.

The use of DHEA is to help back fill the pathways. This hormone should be tested as DHEA-S as well.

Additionally, one can add Pregnenolone as well.

Back filling pathways when on exogenous testosterone is very important in my opinion.

**steroid.com 1** · 12-28-2011, 11:27 AM

Originally Posted by moparmuscle

I'll look tonight. Everything bio, free and total were high high normal. Free test was above range high I think.

Good, post and let's have at it!

BTW, being high normal is okay as long as you feel good.

I am high normal as well and feel fantastic so we're keeping things right where they are.

**moparmuscle** · 12-28-2011, 11:33 AM

Had it at work

Most recent with above program (prior program with 200mg week numbers were higher, we dropped to 150mg e5d and retested with this result):

Total T - 1150 ng/dl – range 249-836
Free T – 58.20 ng/dl – range 5-21
E2 – 26 pg/ml – range 3-70 (I don’t take an AI)
PSA – 1.3 ng/ml – range 0-4
IGF-1 – 117 ng/ml – range 117-329 (haven’t started HGH yet, I start in Jan)\
TSH 2.150 - uiU/dl –range .4-4.5
T4 – 6.4 ug/dl – range 4.5-12
T3 uptake – 38% - range 24-39%
Free Thyroxine – 2.4 – range 1.2-4.9

Lipids, organ function and blood panels were all within normal range expect for HDL which was low at 34 mg/dl with a range of should be higher then 39 mg/dl

I didn’t test DHEA but will next time

**moparmuscle** · 12-28-2011, 11:34 AM

Labcorp has changed the ranges recently though for total test (higher) the new "normal" is under 1100 so I'm close.

**FONZY007** · 12-28-2011, 11:38 AM

Originally Posted by gdevine

Total Test at this point is less important than your bioavailable and/or percent free assays.

Do you have either of those and can you post your most recent blood work complete with ranges?

I too am very high normal (over 1100) but bioavailable was 65% and percent free was 2.5% which is super ideal.

The use of DHEA is to help back fill the pathways. This hormone should be tested as DHEA-S as well.

Additionally, one can add Pregnenolone as well.

Back filling pathways when on exogenous testosterone is very important in my opinion.

So dhea should be used GB if your on trt, what does it do In lame turns lol

**ecdysone** · 12-28-2011, 11:40 AM

Originally Posted by moparmuscle

Any thoughts on my current program and plans for it? (lowering dosing etc).

Tough call. I suspect you won't feel the effects of test unless you are >700

While it's true that levels >1000 do open you up for complicating issues, I don't believe anyone has studied this in any detail.
Actually, probably the only short-term issue is the polycythemia and depressed HDL which are somewhat linearly related to dose.

I've seen a lot of guys say they feel best on the upper end of the range, and obviously, that's still in the normal range for many labs.

One of those risk/benefit calls.

**moparmuscle** · 12-28-2011, 11:41 AM

I would like my total and free test to be within upper range. I'm hoping my planned change will do this. If it's upper normal by day 5 than it's much higher day 2-3 after shot.

**moparmuscle** · 12-28-2011, 11:44 AM

What issues? That's my worry, I have another 40-45 years most likely of this.

Originally Posted by ecdysone

Tough call. I suspect you won't feel the effects of test unless you are >700

While it's true that levels >1000 do open you up for complicating issues, I don't believe anyone has studied this in any detail.
Actually, probably the only short-term issue is the polycythemia and depressed HDL which are somewhat linearly related to dose.

I've seen a lot of guys say they feel best on the upper end of the range, and obviously, that's still in the normal range for many labs.

One of those risk/benefit calls.

**ecdysone** · 12-28-2011, 11:45 AM

Originally Posted by moparmuscle

Lipids, organ function and blood panels were all within normal range expect for HDL which was low at 34 mg/dl with a range of should be higher then 39 mg/dl

I would be very concerned with that level of HDL. Have you tried anything to boost it?

I use niacin, and over the years have doubled mine from 29 to 64 (of course diet is contributory)

**ecdysone** · 12-28-2011, 11:46 AM

Originally Posted by moparmuscle

What issues? That's my worry, I have another 40-45 years most likely of this.

Mainly cardiovascular, but that's something you can monitor as you get to be an older dude like me!

**ecdysone** · 12-28-2011, 11:47 AM

duplicate

**moparmuscle** · 12-28-2011, 11:57 AM

Originally Posted by ecdysone

Mainly cardiovascular, but that's something you can monitor as you get to be an older dude like me!

Great. I'll post up blood work after I lower dose to 100mg e4d along with lower deca . Things might not change that much since I'm cutting a day out a the same time, just a tad lower for total and free test and it will be spot on.

Do you have an experience with hgh at a lower dose like I plan on running? What do you think of my dosing plan (3am to let the body still release some of it's own). How long should o wait before testing IGF after I start?

**steroid.com 1** · 12-28-2011, 12:51 PM

Originally Posted by moparmuscle

Had it at work

Most recent with above program (prior program with 200mg week numbers were higher, we dropped to 150mg e5d and retested with this result):

Total T - 1150 ng/dl – range 249-836
Free T – 58.20 ng/dl – range 5-21
E2 – 26 pg/ml – range 3-70 (I don’t take an AI)
PSA – 1.3 ng/ml – range 0-4
IGF-1 – 117 ng/ml – range 117-329 (haven’t started HGH yet, I start in Jan)\
TSH 2.150 - uiU/dl –range .4-4.5
T4 – 6.4 ug/dl – range 4.5-12
T3 uptake – 38% - range 24-39%
Free Thyroxine – 2.4 – range 1.2-4.9

Lipids, organ function and blood panels were all within normal range expect for HDL which was low at 34 mg/dl with a range of should be higher then 39 mg/dl

I didn’t test DHEA but will next time

There are other hormonal panels I'd like to see like Progesterone, Cortisol...but just as you said, high normal on Test panels. If it were me, and I felt good, I wouldn't change a thing. I've discussed this at length with my TRT specialist and he agrees as long as no neg sides appear and a man feels good than better to be left alone and monitor accordingly.

Thyroid looks good, just keep an eye on TSH anything over 2.0 is considered high normal. But your T4 and conversion to T3 is nice so your Thyroid is working fine.

PSA over 1 need to keep an eye on as well...but I am sure you know that.

E2 is fantastic especially with no AI! You were blessed with a great liver my friend!

Keep us posted on your hgh protocol.

**moparmuscle** · 12-28-2011, 01:26 PM

I will add Progesterone, Cortisol and dhea to my next panel. Great advice thanks

My liver and kidney functions actually always test higher normal, always have. I dont drink, only script is TRT/HRT, eat organic and lots of h2o. Genetic weakness.

I'll try the lower levels of test on e4d and post up in this thread after I do.

HGH should be interesting. Any idea how long I need to run before blood testing? I do know when you test you take the hgh later then normal like 2-3 hrs prior to test to see what peak night levels do after the shot.

Originally Posted by gdevine

There are other hormonal panels I'd like to see like Progesterone, Cortisol...but just as you said, high normal on Test panels. If it were me, and I felt good, I wouldn't change a thing. I've discussed this at length with my TRT specialist and he agrees as long as no neg sides appear and a man feels good than better to be left alone and monitor accordingly.

Thyroid looks good, just keep an eye on TSH anything over 2.0 is considered high normal. But your T4 and conversion to T3 is nice so your Thyroid is working fine.

PSA over 1 need to keep an eye on as well...but I am sure you know that.

E2 is fantastic especially with no AI! You were blessed with a great liver my friend!

Keep us posted on your hgh protocol.

**moparmuscle** · 12-28-2011, 10:25 PM

Just ordered some topical topical pregnenolone a pre curser to dhea and progesterone.

Originally Posted by gdevine

Total Test at this point is less important than your bioavailable and/or percent free assays.

Do you have either of those and can you post your most recent blood work complete with ranges?

I too am very high normal (over 1100) but bioavailable was 65% and percent free was 2.5% which is super ideal.

The use of DHEA is to help back fill the pathways. This hormone should be tested as DHEA-S as well.

Additionally, one can add Pregnenolone as well.

Back filling pathways when on exogenous testosterone is very important in my opinion.