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  1. #1
    Canes4Ever's Avatar
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    Westside Powerlifting Techniques

    Great post I found at www.BoarNBull.com message board by one of the Mods there GettinSwole. Thanks GettinSwole for your permission to repost this here at Anabolic Review

    WestSide Powerlifting
    Before I get started here is a little information about the Westside Barbell Club. In their 20' x 40' gym they have 53 Elite level lifters with 24 members squatting over 800 pounds, 40 members benching over 500 pounds and 6 members deadlifting over 800 pounds!

    Now to get started the Westside methods are unusual to most. They put Strength, Power, and Hypertrophy phases all together into one routine. The reason these phases are together is because to be strong you need to have power and strength at the same time. The old routines could not provide that because they split up the different phases for different time frames. When training with the different phases split up you would lose the qualities you had just gained from the training before.

    You might be thinking, "How do they put all those phases into one routine?” Well they do this by training for strength/speed on one day and power on a different day during the week. The hypertrophy is caused by the assistance exercises on each of the days.

    So what does a 1 week routine look like?

    Well, you train 4 times a week with 2 days being devoted to the bench press and 2 days devoted to the squat/deadlift. The reason the squat and deadlift are trained on the same day is because they are similar movements which use the same primary muscles.

    On one day you will do speed work and on the other day you will do what is known as a Max Effort movement.

    For the speed bench press day you will be using 60% of your one rep max for 8 sets of 3 reps. These reps are done as fast as possible while keeping your form perfect and using a close grip. Rest periods should be between 40-60 seconds.
    For the squat speed day you will be using 50% of your max squat for 10 sets of 2 reps. The week after that you increase your speed squats to 55% of your one rep max and on the third week you will use 60% of your one rep max. On week four you would go back to 50% of your 1-RM and continue to wave your weights like that. Rest periods should be between 40-60 seconds between each speed set. After your speed squats do deadlifts for 6 singles of 60% of your max deadlift with a 20 second rest period.

    For the speed bench and speed squat days after your 8 sets you will also do a single rep of about 75% of your max just to test your speed. All of the squats on speed day will be done off of boxes. I will explain this further in this article.

    On the ME or Max Effort days you will be doing a movement that works the muscles in either your squat, deadlift, or bench to the max. An example of this would be doing front squats on your ME squat day or close grip incline press on your ME bench day. Almost all of your ME bench exercises should be done with a close grip.

    On your squat/deadlift days you will always work your abs, obliques, an exercise for your weak point and reverse hypers. On your bench press days you will do a pressing movement followed by an extension and heavy lat work and some light shoulder work.

    An example one week routine would be:

    Sunday - ME squat/deadlift

    ME exercise - Close stance bent over good morning - work up to a single or triple
    Assistance - Glute - Ham raise - 5 sets of 8-10 reps
    Abs - Standing abs - 4 sets of 8-12
    Obliques - Dumbbell side bends - 3 sets of 4-8 reps
    Reverse hypers - 3 sets of 8-12 reps

    Tuesday - Speed bench

    Speed Bench - 8 sets of 3 reps at 60% of your one rep max
    Pressing movement - Closegrip 3 board press - 3 sets of 5
    Extension - Elbows out extensions - 3 sets of 6-10 reps
    Lat work - T-bar rows - 4 sets of 5-8 reps
    Shoulder work - A few light sets of side laterals and front raises

    Thursday - Speed squat

    Speed squat - 10 sets of 2 reps at 50% of your one rep max
    Speed deadlift - 6 singles of 60% of one rep max
    Assistance - Zercher squats - 5 sets of 6-8 reps
    Abs - Decline sit-ups with 5 second pause at bottom - 4 sets of 8-12 reps
    Obliques - Dumbbell side bends - 3 sets of 4-8 reps
    Reverse hypers - 3 sets of 6-8 reps

    Friday - ME bench

    ME exercise - Closegrip Incline press - work up to max single
    Pressing movement - floor press - 3 sets of 5
    Extension - Skull crushers - 3 sets of 6-10
    Lat work - T-bar rows - 4 sets of 5-8
    Light shoulder work


    How can you get away with all the volume?

    The main reason you can do this much is because none of the assistance exercises are to failure. The only exercise that is done until failure is your ME movement. When you first start training with this program you might want to drop a few sets on the assistance exercises. You can gradually add them as you get used to the volume.

    What is the proper form for bench pressing?

    Benching is actually a very technical lift. To start off you need to pull your shoulder blades together to put most of the pressure on your trap area. Now plant your feet firmly to the ground and push a bit. By this point your body should be very tight and stable. Now unrack the weight and position the bar above your sternum area with your arms still fully extended. You will want to lower the bar straight down and up to create the smallest ROM as possible. During the press keep your elbows near your sides and hold your shoulder blades together. The bar should end up staying over your sternum for the whole rep. Do NOT breath out during the rep, hold your breath from the beginning of the rep to the end.

    What is the proper form for squatting without a box?

    First position yourself under the bar and put the weight on your rear delts. Take a wide grip and then take in a large breath while pushing your abs out and arch your back to take the weight off of the pins. Now you should be standing with your back arched and abs pushed out. Now take a wide stance with your toes pointed straight forward. Take one last breath while pushing your abs out and descend back into the squat while pushing your feet out sideways. To descend into the squat first stick your ass back and lean forward keeping the bar over your feet for the whole rep, this will keep the bar in the center of gravity. Your shins should stay perpendicular to the floor for the rep and the bar should stay above the middle of your feet.

    What is the proper form for box squatting?

    Box squats are very similar to squats except at the bottom of the squat you sit back onto the box and release your hip flexors. You MUST keep the rest of your body tight. To release the hip flexors just stop pushing your feet out sideways. You only release them for a split second then explode back to the top of the squat.

    DO NOT BOUNCE OFF THE BOX.

    Some notes about the system

    On ME day you are training with the conjugated method. With this method you must rotate the ME exercise at most every 3rd week. The reason for this is because you will not get stronger after 3 weeks at or above 90% of your max, you will suffer either mental or physical burnout after about 3 weeks and your strength will actually go down.

    On ME day for squat/deadlift 60% of the ME exercises should be different kinds of good mornings, 25% squatting movements and 15% deadlifts. The reason being for all of the good mornings is because they build up the posterior chain (calves, hamstrings, glutes, lower back, upper back, abs, obliques) like no other exercise.
    On speed day the reason you are using between 50% and 60% of you max is because that is how you can generate the most force. Think of it this way, can you generate more force throwing a ping pong ball/baseball/or a 90pound weight? Well, the ping pong ball is too light to get much force while the 90 pound weight is to heavy but the baseball is able to be thrown fast and it has more weight then the ping pong ball. Use the equation F=M x A to figure that out. The reason short rest periods are used on speed day are: A) You can hit fast twitch fibers hard B) Short rest periods release more growth hormone C) You get better on your first rep D) You get into good shape for a competition

    The Most Important Muscles of Each lift:

    For Bench pressing the very most important muscle are the triceps. That is why all the triceps work is done. The next most important muscle would be the lats and shoulders.
    For squatting and deadlifting the most important muscle are the hamstrings followed by the lower and upper back, the glutes, the abdominals and obliques and the hips.


    Here are some exercises you can use to add variety to your workouts:

    Squat and deadlift assistance: Dimel deadlifts, glute-ham raise, pull-thru’s, stiff legged deadlifts, zercher squats, seated good mornings, bent over good mornings, arch back good mornings, front squats, high bar squats, rack pulls, pulls off a block, sumo deadlift, conventional deadlift, one handed deadlifts, safety bar squats, suspended good mornings, hyperextensions, kneeling squats.

    Pressing movements: closegrip bench, 2 board press, 3 board press, 4 board press, 5 board press, presses off pins, floor press, half benches, JM press, Paul dicks press, dumbbell press, reverse grip bench, cambered bar press, extra wide grip bench, incline press, decline press, military press.

    Extensions: skull crushers, elbows out incline extensions, pushdowns.

    Lat work: T-bar rows, barbell rows, dumbbell rows, chins, pulldowns, cable rows, supported chest rows.

    Ab exercises: Decline sit-ups, standing abs, leg raises, Russian twists, spread eagle sit-ups.

    For more information about the Westside system browse www.elitefts.com

  2. #2
    NightOp is offline Member
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    thnx alot canes, talk about good timing.. i was just about to start some research on this exact routine/concepts thnx bro.

  3. #3
    Canes4Ever's Avatar
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    Originally posted by NightOp
    thnx alot canes, talk about good timing.. i was just about to start some research on this exact routine/concepts thnx bro.
    You're very welcome sir ! I had hoped that this would be of help ! I read it and knew I wanted to repost it here. Thanks to GettinSwole for writing it.

  4. #4
    Tapout's Avatar
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    bump for canes

    also my two partners only train westside---i do it some of my workout with a little of my own pl stuff and a little body building

  5. #5
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    Very helpful Canes, never knew I shouldn't breath out during bench. I might just try some of those techniques.

  6. #6
    Kärnfysikern's Avatar
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    Westside is awsome.
    Here is a program taken from http://www.elitefitnesssystems.com/ that I think you guys should try. I am on week 8 of it right now and I have gained alot.


    9 Week Basic Training Program
    Dave Tate


    This is an old program I wrote some time ago for many of my clients who were just getting into this type of training. This program does not use chains or bands because we did not use them at the time. I still use it as an introduction training program.

    Week 1

    Day 1 (max effort squat day)
    Good Mornings: warm up doing sets of three reps until you feel that you can no longer perform three reps. At this point drop the reps to one and continuing working up to a one rep max.
    Glute Ham Raises: 3 sets of 10 reps. Stress the eccentric, try to get a four count on they way down.
    Reverse Hypers: 3 sets of 8 reps using the small strap
    Pull Down Abs: 5 sets of 10 to 15 reps
    Straight Leg Raises: 5 sets of 15 reps

    Day 2 (max effort bench day)
    Board Press: warm up doing sets of three reps until you feel that you can no longer perform three reps. At this point drop the reps to one and continuing working up to a one rep max.
    Lying Barbell tricep extensions: 6 sets of 10 reps
    Push Downs: 3 sets of 10
    One Arm Press: 3 sets of 15

    Day 3 (dynamic effort squat day)
    Box Squats: 10 sets of 2 reps with 50% of 1RM (45 to 60 sec rest between sets)
    Reverse Hypers: 3 sets of 8 reps using the small strap
    One Leg Squats: 4 sets of 10 with each leg
    Dumbbell Rows: 4 sets of 6 reps
    Barbell Shrugs: 3 sets of 15 reps

    Day 4 (dynamic effort bench day)
    Bench Press: 10 sets of 3 reps with 60% of 1RM; use three different grips; (45 to 60 sec rest between sets)
    Lying Dumbbell Tricep Extensions: 4 sets of 8 reps
    Dumbbell Side Raises: 3 sets of 10 reps
    Bent Over Dumbbell Side Raises: 3 sets of 10 rep

    Week 2

    Day 1 (max effort squat day)
    Good Mornings: warm up doing sets of three reps until you feel that you can no longer perform three reps. At this point drop the reps to one and continuing working up to a one rep max
    Glute Ham Raises: 3 sets of 8 reps. Stress the eccentric, try to get a four count on they way down.
    Reverse Hypers : 3 sets of 8 reps using the small strap
    Pull Down Abs: 5 sets of 10 to 15 reps
    Straight Leg Raises: 3 sets of 20 reps

    Day 2 (max effort bench day)
    Board Press: warm up doing sets of three reps until you feel that you can no longer perform three reps. At this point drop the reps to one and continuing working up to a one rep max
    Lying Barbell Tricep Extensions: 6 sets of 10 reps
    Push Downs: 3 sets of 10
    One Arm Press: 3 sets of 15

    Day 3 (dynamic effort squat day)
    Box Squats: 10 sets of 2 reps with 54 % of 1RM; (45 to 60 sec rest between sets)
    Reverse Hypers: 3 sets of 8 reps using the small strap
    One Leg Squats: 4 sets of 10 with each leg
    Dumbbell Rows: 4 sets of 6 reps
    Barbell Shrugs: 3 sets of 15 reps

    Day 4 (dynamic effort bench day)
    Bench Press: 10 sets of 3 reps with 60% of 1RM; use three different grips ; (45 to 60 sec rest between sets)
    Lying Dumbbell Tricep Extensions: 4 sets of 8 reps
    Dumbbell Side Raises: 3 sets of 10 reps
    Bent Over Dumbbell Side Raises: 3 sets of 10 reps


    Week 3

    Day 1 (max effort squat day)
    Good Mornings: warm up doing sets of three reps until you feel that you can no longer perform three reps. At this point drop the reps to one and continuing working up to a one rep max
    Glute Ham Raises: 3 sets of 8 reps using the small strap
    Reverse Hypers : 3 sets of 8 reps using the small strap
    Pull Down Abs: 5 sets of 10 to 15 reps
    Straight Leg Raises: 3 sets of 20 reps

    Day 2 (max effort bench day)
    Board Press: warm up doing sets of three reps until you feel that you can no longer perform three reps. At this point drop the reps to one and continuing working up to a one rep max
    Lying Barbell Tricep Extensions: 6 sets of 10 reps
    Push Downs: 3 sets of 10
    One Arm Press: 3 sets of 15

    Day 3 (dynamic effort squat day)
    Box Squats: 10 sets of 2 reps with 56 % of 1RM ; (45 to 60 sec rest between sets)
    Reverse Hypers: 3 sets of 8 reps using the small strap
    One Leg Squats: 4 sets of 10 with each leg
    Dumbbell Rows: 4 sets of 6 reps
    Barbell Shrugs: 3 sets of 15 reps

    Day 4 (dynamic effort bench day)
    Bench Press: 10 sets of 3 reps with 60% of 1RM; use three different grips ; (45 to 60 sec rest between sets)
    Lying Dumbbell Tricep Extensions: 4 sets of 8 reps
    Dumbbell Side Raises: 3 sets of 10 reps
    Bent Over Dumbbell Side Raises: 3 sets of 10 reps


    Week 4

    Day 1 (max effort squat day)
    Low Box Squat: warm up doing sets of three reps until you feel that you can no longer perform three reps. At this point drop the reps to one and continuing working up to a one rep max
    Glute Ham Raise: 5 sets of 5 reps
    Partial Deadlifts: 3 sets of 20 reps
    Reverse Hypers: 3 sets of 8 reps using the small strap
    Pull Down Abs: 5 sets of 10 to 15 reps

    Day 2 (max effort bench day)
    Floor Press: warm up doing sets of three reps until you feel that you can no longer perform three reps. At this point drop the reps to one and continuing working up to a one rep max
    JM Press: work up to 2 sets of 3 reps
    Incline Dumbbell Press: 2 sets of 10
    Seated dumbbell Cleans: 4 sets of 8
    Straight Leg Raises: 5 sets of 15

    Day3 (dynamic effort squat day)
    Box Squats: 10 sets of 2 reps with 60 % of 1RM ; (45 to 60 sec rest between sets)
    * after your sets of box squats work up to a heavy double. This is not a maximum attempt so do not miss the attempts.
    Reverse Hypers: 5 sets of 8 reps
    Chest supported Rows: 4 sets of 8 reps
    Glute Ham Raise: 3 sets of 6 reps
    Pull Down Abs: 5 sets of 10 reps

    Day 4 (dynamic effort bench day)
    Bench Press: 10 sets of 3 reps with 60% of 1RM; use three different grips ; (45 to 60 sec rest between sets)
    Close Grip Bench Press: work up to 2 sets of 3
    One Arm Dumbbell Extensions: 3 sets of 10
    Front Plate Raises: 3 sets of 10 reps


    Week 5

    Day 1 (max effort squat day)
    Low Box Squat: warm up doing sets of three reps until you feel that you can no longer perform three reps. At this point drop the reps to one and continuing working up to a one rep max
    Glute Ham Raise: 5 sets of 5 reps
    Partial Deadlifts: 3 sets of 20 reps
    Reverse Hypers: 3 sets of 8 reps using the small strap
    Pull Down Abs: 5 sets of 10 to 15 reps

    Day 2 (max effort bench day)
    Floor Press: warm up doing sets of three reps until you feel that you can no longer perform three reps. At this point drop the reps to one and continuing working up to a one rep max
    JM Press: work up to 2 sets of 3 reps
    Incline Dumbbell Press: 2 sets of 10
    Seated Dumbbell Cleans: 4 sets of 8
    Straight Leg Raises: 5 sets of 15

    Day 3 (dynamic effort squat day)
    Box Squats: 10 sets of 2 reps with 50% of 1RM ; (45 to 60 sec rest between sets)
    Reverse Hypers: 5 sets of 8 reps
    Chest supported Rows: 4 sets of 8 reps
    Glute Ham Raise: 3 sets of 6 reps
    Pull Down Abs: 5 sets of 10 reps

    Day 4 (dynamic effort bench day)
    Bench Press: 10 sets of 3 reps with 60% of 1RM; use three different grips ; (45 to 60 sec rest between sets)
    * after your sets of box squats work up to a heavy single. This is not a maximum attempt so do not miss the attempts.
    Close Grip Bench Press: work up to 2 sets of 3
    One Arm Dumbbell Extensions: 3 sets of 10
    Front Plate Raises: 3 sets of 10 reps



    Week 6


    Day 1 (max effort squat day)
    Low Box Squat: warm up doing sets of three reps until you feel that you can no longer perform three reps. At this point drop the reps to one and continuing working up to a one rep max
    Glute Ham Raise: 5 sets of 5 reps
    Partial Deadlifts: 3 sets of 20 reps
    Reverse Hypers: 3 sets of 8 reps using the small strap
    Pull Down Abs: 5 sets of 10 to 15 reps

    Day 2 (max effort bench day)
    Floor Press: warm up doing sets of three reps until you feel that you can no longer perform three reps. At this point drop the reps to one and continuing working up to a one rep max
    JM Press: work up to 2 sets of 3 reps
    Incline Dumbbell Press: 2 sets of 10
    Seated dumbbell Cleans: 4 sets of 8
    Straight Leg Raises: 5 sets of 15

    Day 3 (dynamic effort squat day)
    Box Squats: 10 sets of 2 reps with 52 % of 1RM ; (45 to 60 sec rest between sets)
    Reverse Hypers: 5 sets of 8 reps
    Chest supported Rows: 4 sets of 8 reps
    Glute Ham Raise: 3 sets of 6 reps
    Pull Down Abs: 5 sets of 10 reps

    Day 4 (dynamic effort bench day)
    Bench Press: 10 sets of 3 reps with 60% of 1RM; use three different grips ; (45 to 60 sec rest between sets)
    Close Grip Bench Press: work up to 2 sets of 3
    One Arm Dumbbell Extensions: 3 sets of 10
    Front Plate Raises: 3 sets of 10 reps


    Week 7

    Day 1 (max effort squat day)
    Good Morning Squats: warm up doing sets of three reps until you feel that you can no longer perform three reps. At this point drop the reps to one and continuing working up to a one rep max
    Glute Ham Raise: 5 sets of 5 reps
    Lunges: 4 sets of 10 reps (each leg)
    Reverse Hypers: 3 sets of 8 reps using the small strap
    Pull Down Abs: 5 sets of 10 to 15 reps

    Day 2 (max effort bench day)
    Ball Press: 3 sets of 20 reps (avg. rest period = 5 min)
    Seated dumbbell Shoulder Press: 5 sets 10 reps
    Incline Barbell Tricep Extensions: 5 sets 6 reps
    face Pulls: 5 sets 15 reps

    Day 3 (dynamic effort squat day)
    Box Squats: 10 sets of 2 reps with 54 % of 1RM ; (45 to 60 sec rest between sets)
    * after your sets of box squats work up to a heavy double. This is not a maximum attempt so do not miss the attempts.
    Reverse Hypers: 4 sets 8 reps
    Pull Downs: 3 sets 8 reps
    Glute Ham Raise: 4 sets 15 reps

    Day 4 (dynamic effort bench day)
    Bench Press: 10 sets of 3 reps with 60% of 1RM; use three different grips ; (45 to 60 sec rest between sets)
    * after your sets of box squats work up to a heavy single. This is not a maximum attempt so do not miss the attempts.
    Dumbbell Tricep Extensions: 4 sets of 6 reps
    Reverse Grip Push Downs: 3 sets of 15 reps
    Front - Side - Rear Delt Combo Raise: 2 sets of 60 reps (20 each raise)
    Pull Down Abs: 5 sets 10 reps






    Week 8


    Day 1 (max effort squat day)
    Good Morning Squats: warm up doing sets of three reps until you feel that you can no longer perform three reps. At this point drop the reps to one and continuing working up to a one rep max
    Glute Ham Raise: 5 sets of 5 reps
    Lunges: 4 sets of 10 reps (each leg)
    Reverse Hypers: 3 sets of 8 reps using the small strap
    Pull Down Abs: 5 sets of 10 to 15 reps


    Day 2 (max effort bench day)
    Ball Press: 3 sets of 20 reps (avg. rest period = 5 min)
    Seated dumbbell Shoulder Press: 5 sets 10 reps
    Incline Barbell Tricep Extensions: 5 sets 6 reps
    face Pulls: 5 sets 15 reps

    Day 3 (dynamic effort squat day)
    Box Squats: 10 sets of 2 reps with 62 % of 1RM ; (45 to 60 sec rest between sets)
    Reverse Hypers: 4 sets 8 reps
    Pull Downs: 3 sets 8 reps
    Glute Ham Raise: 4 sets 15 reps


    Day 4 (dynamic effort bench day)
    Bench Press: 10 sets of 3 reps with 60% of 1RM; use three different grips ; (45 to 60 sec rest between sets)
    Dumbbell Tricep Extensions: 4 sets of 6 reps
    Reverse Grip Push Downs: 3 sets of 15 reps
    Front - Side - Rear Delt Combo Raise: 2 sets of 60 reps (20 each raise)
    Pull Down Abs: 5 sets 10 reps



    Week 9

    Day 1 (max day) near end of week
    Box Squat: work up to a 1 rep max
    Bench Press: work up to a 1 rep max

    * These maxes will be used as the 1RM for the next eight week cycle

  7. #7
    Kärnfysikern's Avatar
    Kärnfysikern is offline Retired: AR-Hall of Famer
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    And just another note, I have noticed that I run MUCH faster now after doing this program for a couple of weeks. The explositivity I have gotten in my legs are incredible.

    So if there is any sprinters here try this program if you arent already doing something similar.

  8. #8
    xxxl83 is offline Senior Member
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    Canes good job.

    I've tried to get people on the board to check out www.elitefts.com
    most don't realize that there's so much more to training than the basic bodybuilding b.s.
    Louie Simmons is one of the top IMO the top powerlifting coach in the world. Dave Tate has done an exceptional job with that site and more things will be added to the site soon.
    I have been training with westside methods for just about a year now and my gains have been great and have been natural no A.S.
    For those in the NYC area westside will be hosting a seminar in mid-July
    for more info. check out www.elitefts.com

    It's not good enough to be BIG and STRONG you must also be FAST.

    one more thing if you want to try Westside training you will have to be creative because 99.9% of the gyms around don't have some of the equiptment that westside training revoles around ie. a reverse hyperextension machine, glute ham raise bench, bands, chains ect...
    If your workouts need a change I'd at least do some research give it some thought you won't be wasting your time.

  9. #9
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    damn, lots of good post lately, it's like reading encyclopedia

  10. #10
    Canes4Ever's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Trianon
    damn, lots of good post lately, it's like reading encyclopedia
    Good deal, we want people to LEARN around here. I sure hope it can help some of the folks !

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    NightOp is offline Member
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    Ok, questions.

    1. What about the neglected muscle groups (direct bicep, delt, calf work etc..)
    2. What kind of size gains can you expect relative to the strength gains.

  12. #12
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    Originally posted by NightOp
    Ok, questions.

    1. What about the neglected muscle groups (direct bicep, delt, calf work etc..)
    2. What kind of size gains can you expect relative to the strength gains.
    1. Any strength coach would tell you that secondary muscle groups are fatigued enough during concentric movements to cause hypertrophy. People tend to get too caught up in isolation movements nowadays, if you utilize a program like the one Kevin posted up here I can promise you total fiber recruitment -- everywhere from secondary muscles to stabilizer muscles.

    2. Size gains Vs. strength gains is all relative to the loading parameters chosen IMO. If you compare a strength program to a size program, you will see a larger amount of time under tension (reps * tempo) and perhaps a slightly higher rep-range (4-8). Manipulating loading parameters is probably the most useful tool you entitle yourself to. Everything from exercise selection, rep-range, tempo, volume, etc can be changed to benefit short-term goals.

  13. #13
    xxxl83 is offline Senior Member
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    There are no neglected bodyparts, you're right no direct bicep but heavy rows, pulldowns,and your bi's also stabilize during bench presses (keep the bar from going side to side) that should be enough if not do 2-3 sets of barbell curls.
    As far as size gains you'll grow like crazy the average person at westside puts on close to 40 lbs in the first year.
    It may not all be muscle but that is not their goal strength is. If you think all this is B.S. just check out the site www.elitefts.com and start reading the articles they're all good and you will learn from every single one.
    It's alot of reading and even re-reading but how bad do you want it?
    Start with the articles about Westside then go to the training articles by Louie Simmons and Dave Tate. You may never train the same again.
    DON'T TALK ABOUT IT BE ABOUT IT!!!!

  14. #14
    Kärnfysikern's Avatar
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    Originally posted by NightOp
    Ok, questions.

    1. What about the neglected muscle groups (direct bicep, delt, calf work etc..)
    2. What kind of size gains can you expect relative to the strength gains.

    I add a couple of sets of hammers curls and/or a major biceps exercise once or twice a week after the ME and DE bench workouts. Those workouts is so quick so anything can be added after it. I also add calves after DE squat day.
    I think like this, the faster and harder I train the more biceps and calves exercises I can add behind the main workout.
    I also add 15-20 minutes of farmers walk behind the ME and DE squat days to aid in recovery. Realy blasts the forearms and trapz to.

    And belive me delts get all they need, look through the routine I posted and you will se alot of delt exercises.

    This one particulary is a damn killer,
    Front - Side - Rear Delt Combo Raise: 2 sets of 60 reps (20 each raise)
    I cant even lift my arms to scratch my head when I am done with them.

  15. #15
    Kärnfysikern's Avatar
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    Originally posted by xxxl83
    There are no neglected bodyparts, you're right no direct bicep but heavy rows, pulldowns,and your bi's also stabilize during bench presses (keep the bar from going side to side) that should be enough if not do 2-3 sets of barbell curls.
    As far as size gains you'll grow like crazy the average person at westside puts on close to 40 lbs in the first year.
    It may not all be muscle but that is not their goal strength is. If you think all this is B.S. just check out the site www.elitefts.com and start reading the articles they're all good and you will learn from every single one.
    It's alot of reading and even re-reading but how bad do you want it?
    Start with the articles about Westside then go to the training articles by Louie Simmons and Dave Tate. You may never train the same again.
    DON'T TALK ABOUT IT BE ABOUT IT!!!!

    Totaly aggre,
    I think I have read most of the articles there and probably re read many of them, they are briliant and gave me a whole new perspective on strenght training.

  16. #16
    NightOp is offline Member
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    okay, thanks guys, I'm definately going to check them out.

    My concern with the muscles (such as biceps, etc) that aren't worked primarily is because I have to try very hard for my gains right now (even with primary exercises) in that area and I have a hard time believing that the secondary work in the westside routine will be enough... here is my routine right now > http://www.anabolicreview.com/vbulle...threadid=18125

    I make decent gains but gosh they come slow, my 2 week creatine cycles really really help though.

  17. #17
    Kärnfysikern's Avatar
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    Nightop try westside for sure.
    All the new and strange exercises will shock your body so bad that it will have no other choise then to grow.
    And the damn intensity is unbelivable. I try to be done with the workouts in less then 45 minutes(its a bitch to try that on the ME squat days, especialy the ones on week 4-6, I could almost not drink my shakes after the workouts because I feelt like puking all the time). You will be more sore then you have been for years. Hell I havent been this sore since I started working out in the first place.

  18. #18
    NightOp is offline Member
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    Okay thanks. Gosh there are a zillion articles at that site.. do you suggest I try the above 9 week routine in this thread? We might want to move this convo to PMs to avoid detracting this thread.

  19. #19
    Kärnfysikern's Avatar
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    xxxl83 is probably more knowlegable then me about this but I think everyone will learn from your questions so we can keep it here, you can add me on msn or icq to if you want to(pm me your msn name or icq number if you have one) and I can hook you upp with a guy that realy knows this shit and has helped me alot, can probably answere a couple of questions myself. Like a guy I know says, answering questions only makes me more knowlegable at what I do.

    Try the above routine that is my advice and read the articles, after that you will know the basics and be ready to move on to more advanced stuff(chains, bands ect).

  20. #20
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    night op
    my arms are 19"cold and i do biceps 2x per month and i dont work calves directly at all since starting powerlifting and they are bigger now than ever---when heavy squating calves work hard to hold body

    and just to let everyone know this training works i have 3 power lifters i train with and we have a huge meet(3 lift) coming up(i hurt lower back so i cant do it i am doing a bench meet hopefully in 4 weeks)and these guys squated tonight

    1 guy is 19 and did 765--hes gonna set records at this meet
    1 is in open and sub master in 275 class and did 765 light knee wrap
    and the best 1 did 805 tonight in 242 class

    these guys are gonna kick at the meet---i will be knee wrapper,spotter and coach at this one (hopefully my back will recoup in future i did 405 for 6 and its a little sore but im dealing with it---L4-L5 disc messed up and dr said degenerating--got to strengthen areas around it)

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    NightOp is offline Member
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    sounds good, I really appreciate all the help. I've always been a proponent of large compound exercises for natural growth, but have never really given powerlifting enough thought. I will PM you johan, thnx again.

    good luck with that meet tapout, I'm beginning to feel a new addiction to powerlifting comin up

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    Canes4Ever's Avatar
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    I wish BigKev would tap into this thread....he was a top flight PLer in Texas for a number of years (before he turned to BBing).

    BigKev we need ya brother !

  23. #23
    Wimmpy is offline Associate Member
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    Concentrating that much on those muscle groups only do you run the risk of overtraing those areas?

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    NightOp is offline Member
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    Okay.. gonna bump this one. I spent a few hours (off and on) reading those articles at that site. All I can say is wow. I'm worried that I won't be able to perform some of the exercises because my gym doesn't have the equipment nor is it the place to really try radical stuff (small town gym), I can just imagine the looks I'd get, but I guess that shouldn't matter. Johan I sent you that PM finally.

  25. #25
    Kärnfysikern's Avatar
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    Hehe I also train in a small town gym and people give awfully strange looks when I begin with some odd exercise.

    Many of the exercises can be replaced with other equaly good exercises.
    Im looking forward to chatting with you.

  26. #26
    xxxl83 is offline Senior Member
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    NightOp... give westside a try you'll make good gains trust me.
    As far as the equiptment in your gym goes like I said before you may have to be a bit creative. If there is something you need help with you know how to reach us this board is a gold mine worth of knowledge.
    The nine week program is a bit rough for you if your just starting out.
    Also what are your goals. I could most likely find a good westside program for you to meet a specific goal. I have alot of westside literature,and videos that I could use to help you out.
    If your looking for a good easy to understand beginner level workout for general purposes go to www.elitefts.com/documents/meeting-the-iron.htm
    If you have any questions I'd be glad to help.
    I think Powerlifting is a great sport and I like to see more people getting involved.

  27. #27
    jbrand's Avatar
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    Originally posted by xxxl83
    NightOp... give westside a try you'll make good gains trust me.
    As far as the equiptment in your gym goes like I said before you may have to be a bit creative. If there is something you need help with you know how to reach us this board is a gold mine worth of knowledge.
    The nine week program is a bit rough for you if your just starting out.
    Also what are your goals. I could most likely find a good westside program for you to meet a specific goal. I have alot of westside literature,and videos that I could use to help you out.
    If your looking for a good easy to understand beginner level workout for general purposes go to www.elitefts.com/documents/meeting-the-iron.htm
    If you have any questions I'd be glad to help.
    I think Powerlifting is a great sport and I like to see more people getting involved.
    I'm with you bro, everyone I've directed towards more of a PL style regimen have thanked me over and over. In fact, it has become such a rarity to see people doing deadlifts in my gym that I personally congradulate someone on a job well done when I see it.

  28. #28
    NightOp is offline Member
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    Okay, thanks. My goals are a mix of size and strength. Before I was really just concerned with bulking and BBing type routines which I have done very well with, after two years of reading and trying different things (as I said in a previous post you can check out my current routine thread) (as well as strict dieting principles.. bulking diet, etc..).

    Now that I'm getting into this westside stuff, I'm beginning to think I should forget about size as it will come when I put strength first. I'm going to try and put together my best attempt at that 9-week westside program with some minor changes and I'll post it to let yall suggest changes, thanks again, I havent really worried about strength much since high school football so this is exciting to get back into

  29. #29
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    thanks night op i hope we do good
    j(my strongest partner) did a 700lb(or 725) 3 board bench press with his new shirt and he is hoping to get 620 area at meet in a few weeks
    wimmpy yes you can over train thats why i usually do 3 days and no more than 4 days per week training.

  30. #30
    PorkChop is offline New Member
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    Hey Guys this is my first post here and am looking to get some good lifting advice. NightOp i knwo what you mean about getting an obsession in powerlifting. I just competed in my first meet 2 weeks ago and had so much fun, i cant wait to do another one.

    Tapout did I hear you correctly! Did you say you train 3 guys that squat how much? Is that even possible? I cant even dream of what 600 would feel like let alone 765, or 800! What do you have them do besides squatting? Or do you just squat? I read somehwere that westside barbell club does box squatting. I think i knwo what there talking about but not 100% sure what they mean. Do you and your guys train westside style? And how many reps and sets do your guys do , and with what weight? Sorry for all the questions but i need some help!

    Thanks
    PC

  31. #31
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    Originally posted by PorkChop
    Hey Guys this is my first post here and am looking to get some good lifting advice. NightOp i knwo what you mean about getting an obsession in powerlifting. I just competed in my first meet 2 weeks ago and had so much fun, i cant wait to do another one.

    Tapout did I hear you correctly! Did you say you train 3 guys that squat how much? Is that even possible? I cant even dream of what 600 would feel like let alone 765, or 800! What do you have them do besides squatting? Or do you just squat? I read somehwere that westside barbell club does box squatting. I think i knwo what there talking about but not 100% sure what they mean. Do you and your guys train westside style? And how many reps and sets do your guys do , and with what weight? Sorry for all the questions but i need some help!

    Thanks
    PC
    Welcome to AR Pork Chop, I'm bumping this post for Pork Chop and Tapout to see.

  32. #32
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    porkchop you read it right
    juice junkie on this board has over a 650 squat
    i do 80% power lifting and 20% body building with a lot of west side tecniques mixed in. they do all west side.
    yes box squats--they work great for building strength---you place a box in squat rack at about paralell level and you do a squat with a very wide stance and no wraps. you gently sit on box then explode up.
    you would do about 8 sets of 2 or 3 reps at about 80% of your max weight.
    i have done 500lbs before on them and my one partner has done close to 700lbs.
    they pretty much train themselves i'm there for support,motivation and spots. i used to be the more knowledgeable one now they are cause they spend so much time studying it
    by the way welcome aboard and yes 600 is fricken heavy

    juice and king samson is getting me back into ju jitsu so i have to devide my time

  33. #33
    NightOp is offline Member
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    welcome bro.

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    PorkChop is offline New Member
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    Well thanks for the welcome and clearing up the box squats.

    I have alot of work ahead of me to ever lift what you guys do. I want to start box sqautting but needed a little info first. My numbers are

    440sq 365 bench 485 deadlift. At 181lbs. Those were done in my meet two weeks ago so i will hoepfully improve on them fast.

    Hey Tapout how long did it take you to go from weight like i lift to what you do currently? Is 2 to 3 years a possiblitiy? I am so anxiuos to get strong that i need to train my patience! Cause i want it bad! I read you bench 445 On another thread there are not many bros benching that. Congrats. How long did it take you to acheive that? And how long do you thinik it would take for me to get mid 400's? YOu seem to have lots of powerlifting knowledge so i am sorry for drilling you. Anyone else have tips i can use? Sorry guys to ask so much so quick but i am 22 years old and wanna be strong as hell as fast as i can as well. I am clean now but i have a cycle put away for the next month.

  35. #35
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    Welcome Pork Chop. Canes Johna all you guys this is an awesome post. I have always wanted to research more about power lifting but never did. I hust can never see myself doing all that. I was amazed. I would like to try it though. Now to get this straight strngth will be a primary growth and size will come with it? right? I would love to try this. I gotta try and put together a training schedule

    thanks alot guys

  36. #36
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    Oh and htis mihgt sound sooo dumb but what r board presses??

  37. #37
    Kärnfysikern's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Darkknight442
    Welcome Pork Chop. Canes Johna all you guys this is an awesome post. I have always wanted to research more about power lifting but never did. I hust can never see myself doing all that. I was amazed. I would like to try it though. Now to get this straight strngth will be a primary growth and size will come with it? right? I would love to try this. I gotta try and put together a training schedule

    thanks alot guys
    Yeahh size will come, I have gained more size from these last 9 weeks then I have from several months of bodybuilding before.
    BTW its Johan not johna

    Originally posted by Darkknight442
    Oh and htis mihgt sound sooo dumb but what r board presses??
    Board presses is like a regular bench but done with a couple of boards laying on the chest to cut down on range of motion and to get more stress on the triceps then from a regular bench.

  38. #38
    Kärnfysikern's Avatar
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    Originally posted by PorkChop
    Well thanks for the welcome and clearing up the box squats.

    I have alot of work ahead of me to ever lift what you guys do. I want to start box sqautting but needed a little info first. My numbers are

    440sq 365 bench 485 deadlift. At 181lbs. Those were done in my meet two weeks ago so i will hoepfully improve on them fast.

    Hey Tapout how long did it take you to go from weight like i lift to what you do currently? Is 2 to 3 years a possiblitiy? I am so anxiuos to get strong that i need to train my patience! Cause i want it bad! I read you bench 445 On another thread there are not many bros benching that. Congrats. How long did it take you to acheive that? And how long do you thinik it would take for me to get mid 400's? YOu seem to have lots of powerlifting knowledge so i am sorry for drilling you. Anyone else have tips i can use? Sorry guys to ask so much so quick but i am 22 years old and wanna be strong as hell as fast as i can as well. I am clean now but i have a cycle put away for the next month.
    Dont put yourself down, those are som awsome numbers, you are much stronger then me.

  39. #39
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    yeah seriously man those are good numbers. Don't let people get you down. It willm ess up your whole training mentality. Be proud of what you have accomplished.

    Oh and sorry about the name Johan. I am not th best typer... lol
    I really wanna find time and the energy to do that type of work out though

  40. #40
    xxxl83 is offline Senior Member
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    Porkchop, Darkknight Westside methods are the best thing you'll come across ever no joke you seen what Tapout had to say he's not kidding man those numbers are good but not uncommon if you think those numbers are impressive you should see the numbers of the guys who train at westside with Louie Simmons all that being said this is a great thread but Westside training is very complicated and there is too much to explain here on this board. The BEST thing you could do is go to www.elitefts.com and read everything you could then reread it. First start with an article called "Westside Lifters Speakout" then read tha articles about westside then get into the articles by Louie Simmons and Dave Tate.

    stay strong and good luck

    xxxl83

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