Smith machine for home gym?

**Giggle** · 10-24-2013, 06:24 PM

I was thinking about a Smith as my next purchase but am not sure I'd use it enough. It's partly the money, but also how much space it will take up.
I'd love your thoughts on what exercises are great in one.

BTW I've read the post below about a Smith for bench - and I thought about Austinite, Doc, and Kel's comments. In response to those comments: My wrists are fine, so I don't worry about straight bars (Yet, haha).
I train alone at home, so it would be safer.
Although it does "lock you in" it would never be my main training equipment.
My primary lifts now are with barbells and dumbbells, but after the compound exercises I was thinking I might move to the smith machine.

Thanks guys for ideas on how to put it to go use!

**Brett N** · 10-24-2013, 07:15 PM

Honestly, if it was me I would invest in a power cage before a smith machine. I love mine and use it for squats, bench, and overhead presses. A squat rack would also serve the same purpose.

You can do all those exercises, including bent over rows and possibly even deadlifts in a smith but many are against using the smith for all those exercises because they eliminate the use of the stabilizing muscles that are needed for free weights.

My wife uses our cage and feels pretty comfortable and safe. The first thing I had her do was use a smaller weight and simulate failing her lifts. That way she knew how she could safely get away from the weight and also not fear pushing herself hard.

Not sure the cost of a smith, but I know you can find very good used power cages on craigslist quite often. I would think a smith would be pretty expensive.

**Giggle** · 10-24-2013, 07:30 PM

Thanks Brett. That's a great idea - to practice setting the weight down like would happen if I failed on a weight. I will keep looking around.

**trigger happy** · 10-24-2013, 07:40 PM

Giggle i was the same as you as i train alone. Smith machine was the best thing i have done. It does take a lot of room but you dont have to use the smith function and can use it as a normal bench. To me weight actually feels heavier through the smith machine rather than on a standard bench press. I got the one with the cable cross overs. I use mine about twice a week or if i drive past the gym on the way home and its packed to the max. i picked mine up for $700 AUS with 130kg of weight and all attachments. To good to pass up. The only thing i will change is the pullies over to the steel ones

**kelkel** · 10-24-2013, 08:04 PM

Get the correct Smith and you'll love it. Mine gives you the ability to squat or bench outside of it and still rack the weight in it. It has a row of hooks that run top to bottom allowing you to rack bars at any height. It also has adjustable safety bars to put in place in case you fail on said lifts. The option to do that is what sold me on it. Mine also has a heavy weight stack with bars to hang extra weight on if you choose. It also has a high and low pulley for any type of lat work and a pec deck. If you're imaginative you can do a lot of exercises on the right unit.

Mine is a Bodysolid brand.

I do agree with Craigs List.....

**chi** · 10-24-2013, 08:24 PM

a smith machine at home would be ideal especially if you use are training alone

**Docd187123** · 10-25-2013, 07:51 AM

Originally Posted by Brett N

Honestly, if it was me I would invest in a power cage before a smith machine. I love mine and use it for squats, bench, and overhead presses. A squat rack would also serve the same purpose.

You can do all those exercises, including bent over rows and possibly even deadlifts in a smith but many are against using the smith for all those exercises because they eliminate the use of the stabilizing muscles that are needed for free weights.

My wife uses our cage and feels pretty comfortable and safe. The first thing I had her do was use a smaller weight and simulate failing her lifts. That way she knew how she could safely get away from the weight and also not fear pushing herself hard.

Not sure the cost of a smith, but I know you can find very good used power cages on craigslist quite often. I would think a smith would be pretty expensive.

^^^this. I will never endorse the use of a smith machine, there is no advantage it has over a true power rack or cage. A good power rack will do everything the smith machine does and more plus it should come with safeties should you be worried about failing on the last rep or two of a heavy set. They can be found pretty cheaply on craigslist, eBay, amazon, etc and if interested I know a guy who has prints and specs and custom fabricates power racks. They're slightly more expensive than the big chain ones but he cuts no corners and his welds are drop dead gorgeous lol.

**bass** · 10-25-2013, 10:21 AM

I love my smith machine, money well spent! you will love it because you can add more weight and more isolation. you need to have that ability in the mix. what brand do you have in mind?

**ac guy** · 10-25-2013, 11:06 AM

A Smith definitely has it's advantages. Get a good one and use it properly.

**noitangidni** · 10-25-2013, 03:50 PM

Originally Posted by Docd187123

^^^this. I will never endorse the use of a smith machine, there is no advantage it has over a true power rack or cage. A good power rack will do everything the smith machine does and more plus it should come with safeties should you be worried about failing on the last rep or two of a heavy set. They can be found pretty cheaply on craigslist, eBay, amazon, etc and if interested I know a guy who has prints and specs and custom fabricates power racks. They're slightly more expensive than the big chain ones but he cuts no corners and his welds are drop dead gorgeous lol.

I agree with both posters, but I disagree that there is no advantage of a smith machine. Assuming you have no mobility issues, joint issues, etc. the smith machine will allow you to tax your CNS much more than your free weight option. Free weights are definitely the way to go because of obvious core and stabilizer benefits, but the smith machine has its advantages when properly placed in your workout routine. I personally use it to maximize volume and rotate it in my workouts every other week. It really helps me bust plateaus when I come back to free weights; I don't use it often though and it should never be a replacement to free weights.

The only time I would not recommend a smith machine are for people who already have mobility/shoulder issues since of previous posters claiming of a "fixed, forced" placement of the bar which is correct. It will only aggravate the injured area more and I would consider mobility work first

**Docd187123** · 10-25-2013, 04:15 PM

Originally Posted by noitangidni

I agree with both posters, but I disagree that there is no advantage of a smith machine. Assuming you have no mobility issues, joint issues, etc. the smith machine will allow you to tax your CNS much more than your free weight option. Free weights are definitely the way to go because of obvious core and stabilizer benefits, but the smith machine has its advantages when properly placed in your workout routine. I personally use it to maximize volume and rotate it in my workouts every other week. It really helps me bust plateaus when I come back to free weights; I don't use it often though and it should never be a replacement to free weights.

The only time I would not recommend a smith machine are for people who already have mobility/shoulder issues since of previous posters claiming of a "fixed, forced" placement of the bar which is correct. It will only aggravate the injured area more and I would consider mobility work first

A smith machine will allow you to load the bar more but that is neither more taxing in the CNS nor is it desired.

Just bc we can lift more weight does not mean we should. The same reason a 1000lb half squat will never beat out a 700lb full squat. More weight on the bar means nothing without full ROM and ALL the necessary muscles doing their part. You lose out on most if not all the stabilizing muscles that you'd use on a normal barbell. You are locked in a plane of motion which is almost definitely not within your anthropometrical boundaries. If your femur is a quarter in longer than mine we require two totally different planes of movement. If you one femur is longer than the other (not all that uncommon) you'll need the adjustability of a free barbell not one locked in a plane of motion decided on by the manufacturers/designers. If you're taller than me in upper body dimensions but my legs are longer or I have different arm length than you again, machines in general and smith machines cannot account for this. We don't do bench and stop 4in above the chest and say it allowed us to lift more weight, you chest the lift and cheat yourself that way and with smith machines.

Yes you can load the bar with a bit more weight on a smith vs normal barbell but doing so doesn't necessarily tax the CNS anymore so. You give up using all the extra stabilizer muslcles which the barbell would use which would be the weak link here. By removing them from the lift and compensating by loading the bar more you cannot call it more CNS stimulation bc you've effectively removed many of the muscles involved in the lift.

I agree my stance on smith machines is a bit extreme but this is my personal opinion. We all must make our own decisions as to what's in our best interests and for me personally, smith machines will never have a place. I respect your decision to include them and anyone else who does so, I hope the tone of this post isn't harsh as that's not my intent.

**noitangidni** · 10-25-2013, 04:30 PM

Originally Posted by Docd187123

A smith machine will allow you to load the bar more but that is neither more taxing in the CNS nor is it desired.

Just bc we can lift more weight does not mean we should. The same reason a 1000lb half squat will never beat out a 700lb full squat. More weight on the bar means nothing without full ROM and ALL the necessary muscles doing their part. You lose out on most if not all the stabilizing muscles that you'd use on a normal barbell. You are locked in a plane of motion which is almost definitely not within your anthropometrical boundaries. If your femur is a quarter in longer than mine we require two totally different planes of movement. If you one femur is longer than the other (not all that uncommon) you'll need the adjustability of a free barbell not one locked in a plane of motion decided on by the manufacturers/designers. If you're taller than me in upper body dimensions but my legs are longer or I have different arm length than you again, machines in general and smith machines cannot account for this. We don't do bench and stop 4in above the chest and say it allowed us to lift more weight, you chest the lift and cheat yourself that way and with smith machines.

Yes you can load the bar with a bit more weight on a smith vs normal barbell but doing so doesn't necessarily tax the CNS anymore so. You give up using all the extra stabilizer muslcles which the barbell would use which would be the weak link here. By removing them from the lift and compensating by loading the bar more you cannot call it more CNS stimulation bc you've effectively removed many of the muscles involved in the lift.

I agree my stance on smith machines is a bit extreme but this is my personal opinion. We all must make our own decisions as to what's in our best interests and for me personally, smith machines will never have a place. I respect your decision to include them and anyone else who does so, I hope the tone of this post isn't harsh as that's not my intent.

As one of the other posters mentioned above, isolation is one of the key benefits to the smith machine. I don't know where ROM came into play, but nobody should be lifting free weight or smith without proper form. You also have to remember that I mentioned that the smith should be incorporated every once in a while. While I completely agree that stabilizers are indeed important; the name of the game is hypertrophy. Sneaking in a set of the smith machine once every 3-4 free weights will benefit an individual (the one without obvious mobility, joint, shoulder issues) than the one not using it.

Remember that it's an addition to Giggle's equipment. If this were a question of whether or not Giggle should buy a smith machine or an olympic bench, I'd definitely go with the free weights

**noitangidni** · 10-25-2013, 04:34 PM

Oh to add on CNS stimulation.. the human body has the great ability to adapt to specific stress; which is why I love incorporating the smith machine because my body responses to it differently after so many sets of free weights (positively for sure).

**Brett N** · 10-25-2013, 04:49 PM

I can understand why people feel safer in a smith machine but I really don't understand why people may think it is dangerous to lift alone in a power rack or full cage??? The only danger I could ever foresee is lifting the weight off the hooks when doing bench and that would have to be something that was equal to or over a one rep max. Or. if you have exhausted yourself 100% and then did not deload enough.

I think you would have to be lifting very irresponsibly to get hurt in a full cage if you set your safety bars correctly. Smith may have it's right place but nothing will ever beat lifting real steel. Free weights are best IMO for any healthy lifter.

**kelkel** · 10-25-2013, 04:53 PM

Originally Posted by Docd187123

A smith machine will allow you to load the bar more but that is neither more taxing in the CNS nor is it desired.

Just bc we can lift more weight does not mean we should. The same reason a 1000lb half squat will never beat out a 700lb full squat. More weight on the bar means nothing without full ROM and ALL the necessary muscles doing their part. You lose out on most if not all the stabilizing muscles that you'd use on a normal barbell. You are locked in a plane of motion which is almost definitely not within your anthropometrical boundaries. If your femur is a quarter in longer than mine we require two totally different planes of movement. If you one femur is longer than the other (not all that uncommon) you'll need the adjustability of a free barbell not one locked in a plane of motion decided on by the manufacturers/designers. If you're taller than me in upper body dimensions but my legs are longer or I have different arm length than you again, machines in general and smith machines cannot account for this. We don't do bench and stop 4in above the chest and say it allowed us to lift more weight, you chest the lift and cheat yourself that way and with smith machines.

Yes you can load the bar with a bit more weight on a smith vs normal barbell but doing so doesn't necessarily tax the CNS anymore so. You give up using all the extra stabilizer muslcles which the barbell would use which would be the weak link here. By removing them from the lift and compensating by loading the bar more you cannot call it more CNS stimulation bc you've effectively removed many of the muscles involved in the lift.

I agree my stance on smith machines is a bit extreme but this is my personal opinion. We all must make our own decisions as to what's in our best interests and for me personally, smith machines will never have a place. I respect your decision to include them and anyone else who does so, I hope the tone of this post isn't harsh as that's not my intent.

Did not detect a tone at all. Good post. Good thread.
Austin's the one with the attitude.

**Giggle** · 10-25-2013, 06:30 PM

Hi, and thanks to all you boys! Work was rough today and I didn't get back to the board - but I am so happy to see so many responses. You've given me a lot to think about.

I should have been more clear about one thing - I do have a squat rack of sorts. Not a true power cage, but it will suffice until I get a better one. I also have a ton of free weights, and I will always concentrate on them first.
The Smith would only be to help me after I've done my squats or benches. I do love it in the gym for shoulder presses - where I routinely go to failure and have to hook it in or else drop it on myself!
Thanks Kel and Trigger for the excellent ideas of what to look for. All those extras will make the difference on how much I can do with it.
Doc - I do understand the drawbacks. One of my powerlifting friends bragged that he hadn't used a smith machine in 20 years. But his goals are a little different than mine. Don't worry - I'll remember to use it sparingly.

Noitang - I didn't know about the isolation factor, so thanks for all your thoughts.
Bass - I haven't thought that far ahead. Do you have any suggestions?
Brett - you're right, and I should feel better in a power rack. I'll think about that too.

You guys are wonderful to help me. Thanks!

**bass** · 10-25-2013, 08:14 PM

whats your budget Giggle?

**Giggle** · 10-25-2013, 08:36 PM

Nothing set in stone Bass. I've only spent a couple hundred on weights so far.
Looking at Craigslist all evening - only one smith, and it was 300.
Next I'm going to look at ebay and amazon.

**Docd187123** · 10-25-2013, 08:39 PM

Originally Posted by kelkel

Did not detect a tone at all. Good post. Good thread.
Austin's the one with the attitude.

Thanks lol. Smith machines get me excited when brought up if you couldn't tell

we should give Austin an attitude makeover

Originally Posted by Giggle

Doc - I do understand the drawbacks. One of my powerlifting friends bragged that he hadn't used a smith machine in 20 years. But his goals are a little different than mine. Don't worry - I'll remember to use it sparingly.

You guys are wonderful to help me. Thanks!

Whatever you choose Giggle we all wish you luck and safety in your journey to accomplishing your goals

.

**Docd187123** · 10-25-2013, 08:40 PM

Originally Posted by Giggle

Nothing set in stone Bass. I've only spent a couple hundred on weights so far.
Looking at Craigslist all evening - only one smith, and it was 300.
Next I'm going to look at ebay and amazon.

Ive seen a few good brands for cheap when looking on amazon for a power rack. You can definitely snag some good deals on there if CL doesn't come through.

**Giggle** · 10-26-2013, 07:10 AM

Thanks Doc - I stayed up waaaay to late last night, but didn't find anything that really grabbed me.
I also looked at some nice power racks too!

**Docd187123** · 10-26-2013, 07:17 AM

Originally Posted by Giggle

Thanks Doc - I stayed up waaaay to late last night, but didn't find anything that really grabbed me.
I also looked at some nice power racks too!

*shaking my fist in victory* mission accomplished

**Giggle** · 10-26-2013, 07:18 AM

I thought you'd think so!

**almostgone** · 10-26-2013, 10:31 PM

This may have already been posted, but when I purchased my Smith machine there was an option for bushings on the vertical guideposts or linear bearings. I prefer the linear bearings, they provide a much smoother feel. Definitely opt for the safety bars as mentioned above. Then you have the option to lift free weights with the advantage of the safeties.

**Giggle** · 10-27-2013, 08:29 AM

Thanks Almost -
I wondered about those linear bearings. One of the companies used that as a selling point. I think it was like "Force USA" or something.

**Giggle** · 10-27-2013, 08:33 AM

As an update, I've found a TSA for about 300. It looks pretty plain - no bells and whistles.
There's also some more elaborate ones nearby- a Golds professional, and another that looks really sturdy with a lot of bars and handles. Of course, they are more money. 450. and 750.
Just doing some thinking still, and also about a better power rack.

**Brett N** · 10-27-2013, 08:57 AM

For what it's worth. This is the power rack I have and I'm pretty pleased with it. I also got an extra set of hooks and dip bars (which I do not recommend cause they are too thin) A little pricier at $800 without the extras though.

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Bodycraft 800-990-5556 - F430 Power Rack

**Giggle** · 10-27-2013, 09:32 AM

Thanks Brett. That looks great - pretty sturdy.

**Giggle** · 11-06-2013, 06:48 PM

Update on my Iron Palace!
It's all coming together slowly. I've found plenty of weights and bars. Had trouble getting enough dumbbells at first, but now I have most, and improvise on the ones I don't have yet. They go up to 55's; enough for now.
I actually have 4 benches right now, and will decide which ones to sell off.

Kelkel and all of you - I found a vertical leg press! It's great, and I remembered that you said what a great addition it would be.
Also I bought a TSA smith machine that a guy just really wanted the space, so he gave it to me cheap. That and a squat rack and a few other pieces rounds it out for now.

I'll post pictures when I get it all sorted out.
Thanks again - for all the advice. You guys are really wonderful!

**kelkel** · 11-06-2013, 06:50 PM

Awesome Giggle! What brand vertical press? You will like this movement. You only have to load up a tad more weight than you would squat and it takes up so much less space for a home gym.

Def post up pics please!

**Giggle** · 11-06-2013, 09:54 PM

Its a Powerline.
The guy had bought a new one and wanted to let it go.

**Giggle** · 11-07-2013, 09:21 AM

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It's coming along! The smith is still not put back together, but everything else is in place.
It's now possible to do everything I want and stay at home.

This morning I did legs - and it went very well - just like in the gym; squats, leg press, extensions, stiff leg deads, and calfs - PRICELESS!

**Giggle** · 11-07-2013, 09:22 AM

Oh Man - they're sideways.
Can anybody help?

**kelkel** · 11-07-2013, 09:58 AM

How did the vertical press perform for you?

**Giggle** · 11-07-2013, 11:21 AM

Just great. I need more weights, but it really seemed to isolate it on the quads, with a little on hams.
I did higher reps and it sure started burning like fire!
Worked well for calves too.

**evander87** · 11-07-2013, 01:51 PM

Originally Posted by kelkel

Austin's the one with the attitude.

Lmao no kidding.

Is it just me or are the weights themselves the most expensive part? Well and not really the weights but the damn shipping? A couple online retailers have great prices on the plates until I hit the checkout and add in shipping costs. Whoa nelly!?!?!?!

**kelkel** · 11-07-2013, 04:02 PM

Evander look on Craigslist first!

**almostgone** · 11-08-2013, 01:46 AM

Originally Posted by kelkel

How did the vertical press perform for you?

I have a Husky hip/leg sled...Honestly think a vertical leg press may have served me better for some movements.

**Megalodon6** · 11-09-2013, 04:32 PM

Nice little set up you got there

**NotTheSame** · 11-11-2013, 12:48 AM

I dunno if its too late now but i think like Brett said Squat Cage/Power Rack would be ideal. I have a home gym and i brought a cage off ebay. Its great for everything really. Squats (obvioulsy), Mil press, i do bench on it when im alone too etc. You can also do rows and shit on some of them too because they come with a pulley system. Its good stuff.