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Thread: How much cardio is too much cardio?

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marsoc View Post
    ..but before that I haven't conditioned for Fkin years man lol..
    Good conditioning is a great base for any program. I'd rather have that to begin with then try to build it up from square 1. In nearly any sport or situation the one with the better conditioning usually wins.

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    Jerry Ward has the second video the BCAA subject, and I think he is spot on.


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    Quote Originally Posted by tarmyg View Post
    Jerry Ward has the second video the BCAA subject, and I think he is spot on.

    YouTube Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DCv-V3d004
    Very good find man. Will have to do some research into this subject but it is hard to argue with him. I know that I avoided BCAA when I was on keto because I had a suspicion

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    Haha, yeah, aminos that can convert to glucose can foster an insulin response.
    As far as studies an BCAA and fat loss they are divided.

    Everything with moderation I'd say.
    Using BCAAs and glutamin to avoid catabolism while following a low calorie diet should help fat loss in MOST athletes.
    (By not burning muscle, which if you do, greatly aid weight loss,
    but will hinder future fat loss.)

    You can also burn fat while insulin is elevated.
    I remember this whole thing coming up about yohimine years ago,
    since yohimbine can increase insulin secretion.
    Last edited by DocToxin8; 03-02-2017 at 01:19 AM.

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    I think the difference here is so minute that unless you're at a professional level it will not matter.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by DocToxin8 View Post
    Haha, yeah, aminos that can convert to glucose can foster an insulin response.
    As far as studies an BCAA and fat loss they are divided.

    Everything with moderation I'd say.
    Using BCAAs and glutamin to avoid catabolism while following a low calorie diet should help fat loss in MOST athletes.
    (By not burning muscle, which if you do, greatly aid weight loss,
    but will hinder future fat loss.)

    You can also burn fat while insulin is elevated.
    I remember this whole thing coming up about yohimine years ago,
    since yohimbine can increase insulin secretion.
    I thought yohimbine only worked when insulin was low... hmm

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by hollowedzeus View Post
    Hi guys.

    I'm 18 years old on no performance enhancmentry exceat austinite's otc synephrine,green tea and chromium.

    Currently carb cycling and eating 3000 calories on my high carb and 2300ish on my lower days.

    I was advised a while back to just up the cardio to twice a day if I wanted my physique bad enough.

    I have been doing this and currently on my cut I have went from 211lbs to 174lbs....

    I am not arguing with the progress as I am losing and seeing more veins.

    Essentially my question is...

    Will doing cardio twice a day every day like I've been doing damage my LBM....

    My cardio is over an hour 15% incline treadmill at 6km/hrs

    Sorry for the novel guys. Any input would be fabby-doo

    Zeus
    I never uunderstood twice a day workouts other thennfor football or wrestling conditioning. Which is just getting use to long periods of intensity. Why not just go all out one time and recover and repeat. What are your goals? Diet etc. and what does your training look like. The more muscle you have the higher your natural metabolism. That's awesome your not thinking about roids.I myself never touched them. I was thinking about it but Im 32. But I'm tweaking my diet and seeing what I can reveal and gain from that and liking the results.slow but steady and this way I get use to it as a way of life instead of instant results with help from roids and then one loses the results since they can't have the lifestyle down
    Ps. Studies showed with sprint intervals there was and increase in lower body mass with a decrease in fat. Sprints you can gain mass since your super activating the type 2 fast twitch muscles .. pretty sure that you can't gain mass from long endurance runs. Either way be sure to take 20grams whey pre cardio, bcaa and glutamine during and 30-40'grams post cardio to preserve muscle mass

    PSS: I didn't realize this was an old post. Nevermind lol
    Last edited by Marsoc; 03-03-2017 at 05:51 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hollowedzeus View Post
    Very good find man. Will have to do some research into this subject but it is hard to argue with him. I know that I avoided BCAA when I was on keto because I had a suspicion
    Why bcaa have no sugar or carbs to stop ketosis..? It metabolizes in the muscle for fuel

  9. #49
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    Yohimbine (/joʊˈhɪmbiːn/)[2] is an indole alkaloid derived from the bark of the Pausinystalia yohimbe tree in Central Africa. It is a veterinary drug used to reverse sedation in dogs and deer. Yohimbine has been studied as a potential treatment for erectile dysfunction but there is insufficient evidence to rate its effectiveness.[3] Extracts from yohimbe have been marketed as dietary supplements for improving sexual function.[4]


    Lol why this ...

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marsoc View Post
    I never uunderstood twice a day workouts other thennfor football or wrestling conditioning. Which is just getting use to long periods of intensity. Why not just go all out one time and recover and repeat. What are your goals? Diet etc. and what does your training look like. The more muscle you have the higher your natural metabolism. That's awesome your not thinking about roids.I myself never touched them. I was thinking about it but Im 32. But I'm tweaking my diet and seeing what I can reveal and gain from that and liking the results.slow but steady and this way I get use to it as a way of life instead of instant results with help from roids and then one loses the results since they can't have the lifestyle down
    Ps. Studies showed with sprint intervals there was and increase in lower body mass with a decrease in fat. Sprints you can gain mass since your super activating the type 2 fast twitch muscles .. pretty sure that you can't gain mass from long endurance runs. Either way be sure to take 20grams whey pre cardio, bcaa and glutamine during and 30-40'grams post cardio to preserve muscle mass

    PSS: I didn't realize this was an old post. Nevermind lol
    Well I'm 18 and I'm currently going back into keto...

    When I last done it I dropped 20lbs in a months after carbing back up with little cardio.

    I took a month off to carbs cycle and lost nothing. It's a strange one so I was starting to get pissed doing 1000calories worth of cardio almost everyday haha.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marsoc View Post
    Why bcaa have no sugar or carbs to stop ketosis..? It metabolizes in the muscle for fuel
    I think the danger is from what I have read is that they metabolise into glucose for fuel that will trigger an insulin response

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    Protein in itself foster an insulin response.

    But I'm not a proponent of ketosis dieting either,
    for me, ketosis by diet is reserved for sick people; epilepsy and some other neurological conditions.
    I also know one can lose weight with ketosis,
    but don't think it's any more effective than a usual 40-30-30 (carbs/f/p) diet with excersize.
    (Maybe in obese subjects it has its merits)

    But I think it will be hard to build muscle during ketosis.
    I might be wrong. If so, would hope you prove me wrong.

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by DocToxin8 View Post
    Protein in itself foster an insulin response.

    But I'm not a proponent of ketosis dieting either,
    for me, ketosis by diet is reserved for sick people; epilepsy and some other neurological conditions.
    I also know one can lose weight with ketosis,
    but don't think it's any more effective than a usual 40-30-30 (carbs/f/p) diet with excersize.
    (Maybe in obese subjects it has its merits)

    But I think it will be hard to build muscle during ketosis.
    I might be wrong. If so, would hope you prove me wrong.
    I also agree that it is hard to build or maintain muscle through ketosis but I tried my hand at carb cycling with immense amounts of cardio and it wasn't effective. Keto seems like it will be my go to for cutting...

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    Quote Originally Posted by DocToxin8 View Post
    Protein in itself foster an insulin response.

    But I think it will be hard to build muscle during ketosis.
    I might be wrong. If so, would hope you prove me wrong.
    17 years in ketosis:
    https://www.instagram.com/darthluiggi/?hl=en
    5'6 166 lbs 39 yr 8% bf
    He's got a large following on reddit.

    https://www.youtube.com/user/fitsk8chick
    50 yr ripped keto woman

    https://www.youtube.com/user/PrimalEdgeHealth

    --

    IME, keto doesn't work for me. The appetite supression/calorie deficit was too great. Currently do not recommend for "ectomorphs or hardgainers". 100-200g carbs works best for me. Keto makes cutting so easy.
    Last edited by MToption2; 03-04-2017 at 11:12 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DocToxin8 View Post
    Protein in itself foster an insulin response.

    But I'm not a proponent of ketosis dieting either,
    for me, ketosis by diet is reserved for sick people; epilepsy and some other neurological conditions.
    I also know one can lose weight with ketosis,
    but don't think it's any more effective than a usual 40-30-30 (carbs/f/p) diet with excersize.
    (Maybe in obese subjects it has its merits)

    But I think it will be hard to build muscle during ketosis.
    I might be wrong. If so, would hope you prove me wrong.
    I love keto for cutting, I think the confusion lies in definition of pathological Ketone body production and carb restricted Ketone production. Obviously when someone is a bad diabetic or what and go into ketoacidosis that is not the same as the body being carb restricted and producing a slightly higher than normal amount of Ketones. I think the key, to a keto diet is getting the body's metabolism pushed to the point that it's producing and using small amounts of Ketones for energy. I don't think a healthy individual could push themselves into true pathological keto acidosis.

    So in my mind, it's not Ketones itself that cause fat loss. It's how much the body has to be stressed to the point that it's producing Ketones and metabolizing them to keep up, that produces the excellent results.

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    Gluconeogenesis from amino acids is an endothermic reaction. The body will not do it unless absolute necessary, and in small quantity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.BB View Post
    Gluconeogenesis from amino acids is an endothermic reaction. The body will not do it unless absolute necessary, and in small quantity.
    The classic example is "wild rabbit," starvation.
    Mr.BB likes this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hollowedzeus View Post
    Well I'm 18 and I'm currently going back into keto...

    When I last done it I dropped 20lbs in a months after carbing back up with little cardio.

    I took a month off to carbs cycle and lost nothing. It's a strange one so I was starting to get pissed doing 1000calories worth of cardio almost everyday haha.
    o ok so your just in it to los weight..I get it

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    Quote Originally Posted by tarmyg View Post
    Jerry Ward has the second video the BCAA subject, and I think he is spot on.

    So what are the 2 out of the 3 Amino acids in bcaas that are for triggering insulin as he says. Leucine, ISO luecine or valine...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marsoc View Post
    So what are the 2 out of the 3 Amino acids in bcaas that are for triggering insulin as he says. Leucine, ISO luecine or valine...
    I know Leucine for sure does. And honestly, Leucine is the only relevant potent amino acid to stimulate muscle protein synthesis.

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    Have you tried HIIT?

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    Quote Originally Posted by MuscleScience View Post
    I love keto for cutting, I think the confusion lies in definition of pathological Ketone body production and carb restricted Ketone production. Obviously when someone is a bad diabetic or what and go into ketoacidosis that is not the same as the body being carb restricted and producing a slightly higher than normal amount of Ketones. I think the key, to a keto diet is getting the body's metabolism pushed to the point that it's producing and using small amounts of Ketones for energy. I don't think a healthy individual could push themselves into true pathological keto acidosis.

    So in my mind, it's not Ketones itself that cause fat loss. It's how much the body has to be stressed to the point that it's producing Ketones and metabolizing them to keep up, that produces the excellent results.
    Diabetic ketoacidosis is life threatening, so no,
    I'm not confusing ketosis through diet with that.

    To reach ketosis you don't have to cut carbs that much actually,
    just supplement with a lot of ketones (like b-hydroxybutyrate)
    and you're in ketosis. (Tried in an experiment (in animals) to obtain the neurological effects of ketosis without that diet)

    Anyways, I'm sure people are different and I can't simply say it does or doesn't work for anyone.
    About the examples of these that have stayed in ketosis;
    Many atheletes do some strange shit, and often attributes their success to that strange shit, when in reality it's success in SPITE of that weird shit.

    Humans are resilient.

    Most BBs get shredded to very low BF without ketosis.
    So it absolutely isn't necessary for getting to even extremely low BF.
    And it really seems like a hassle.
    Keto flu, bad breath, trouble getting enough starches to have a healthy digestion, (that means diarrhea or the other), and so on.
    I'm sure keto diets CAN be done quite healthy, but it's difficult.
    And in no way do I see the point of it.
    But I simply base that on what I've read and those I see who follow the keto diet. And I personally don't know any great success stories.
    (Except losing a lot of weight in obese subjects, usually regained)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Caddilac0001 View Post
    Have you tried HIIT?
    Yeah man used to do it but most of my cardio was done fasted so I figured steady state was better

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    Quote Originally Posted by DocToxin8 View Post

    Diabetic ketoacidosis is life threatening, so no,
    I'm not confusing ketosis through diet with that.

    To reach ketosis you don't have to cut carbs that much actually,
    just supplement with a lot of ketones (like b-hydroxybutyrate)
    and you're in ketosis. (Tried in an experiment (in animals) to obtain the neurological effects of ketosis without that diet)

    Anyways, I'm sure people are different and I can't simply say it does or doesn't work for anyone.
    About the examples of these that have stayed in ketosis;
    Many atheletes do some strange shit, and often attributes their success to that strange shit, when in reality it's success in SPITE of that weird shit.

    Humans are resilient.

    Most BBs get shredded to very low BF without ketosis.
    So it absolutely isn't necessary for getting to even extremely low BF.
    And it really seems like a hassle.
    Keto flu, bad breath, trouble getting enough starches to have a healthy digestion, (that means diarrhea or the other), and so on.
    I'm sure keto diets CAN be done quite healthy, but it's difficult.
    And in no way do I see the point of it.
    But I simply base that on what I've read and those I see who follow the keto diet. And I personally don't know any great success stories.
    (Except losing a lot of weight in obese subjects, usually regained)
    So in your opinion, you would never reccomend people to do keto?

    This is a common opinion as people always say it doesn't burn fat faster than say a 40 40 20 split...

    I myself tried medium carb cutting. I can only conclude that I respond better to low carbs or no carbs.

    It seems very individualistic. However I do agree that it isn't very common... how many bodybuilders do yoy see using keto...?

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    Quote Originally Posted by tarmyg View Post
    Jerry Ward has the second video the BCAA subject, and I think he is spot on.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marsoc View Post
    So what are the 2 out of the 3 Amino acids in bcaas that are for triggering insulin as he says. Leucine, ISO luecine or valine...
    In my opinion Jerry is wrong.

    Why cant you burn fat with insulin in your blood?? In fact you ALWAYS have basal levels of insulin in your blood, he doesnt understand very well insulin and glucagon.

    Yes, there is a small insulin response to bcaas, whats the problem with that? Are you sure the response to bcaas isn't as great as to the tons of sweeteners they put in bcaas drinks??

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