Where and why do people set the boundaries between gear and supplements?

**ascendant** · 05-10-2006, 04:33 PM

just had to ask a question about those who are all natural. for starters, i find it quite amusing that you're on a forum with "steroid " in the url's title.

well, here's what i don't get... those who are all natural typically think that doing gear is "cheating", yet almost every single one of them uses one kind of supplement or another. i've seen "all natural" guys who are violently against gear, yet they'll pop creatine, anator, gak, pro-hormone pills and the like. now, you're taking those supplements to try to get improved gains, right? so, where is the boundary that you draw between when supplements become too much?

is the concern that gear is illegal? if so, if you lived in mexico where it was legal, would you take it then?

is it that they work too well? do you have a certain boundary as to if something works too good, it's "cheating", but anything short of that is ok? i just don't get the mindset? it seems like with naturals, taking supplements that are supposed to help muscle gains is ok, but gear or any other products that work "too well" should not be used?

if the concerns are that gear is "bad" for you, then you might want to avoid all those supplements as well. with gear, they've been around and thoroughly tested enough that people are well aware of their side-effects, how to avoid them, and proper health-care maintenance while on them. however, with the supplements on the market, those things haven't been tested much at all, save for a few tests funded by the marketers which are of course unreliable because of that fact. how do you know that the anator you're taking isn't doing far more damage than gear ever could? long-term damage from supplements is hard to notice, usually until it's too late. as far as safety concerns, you're far better sticking with gear and knowing what preventive measures are needed. things are taken off the market all the time for being too dangerous, usually not until after there have been casualties cause of the lack in testing. at least with gear, you know what to expect and how to prevent it.

so anyway, where are those boundaries for you natural guys out there? as far as i can tell, the boundary seems to be a limit as to taking what might work, but not work too well? naturals will pump themselves full of many things save the one kind of thing they know will actually work and they think that's "safer"? i know some of you naturals may not take anything and if so, then i guess none of this applies to you. this is directed primarily at the naturals who seem to have set some kind of boundaries for themselves that i'm failing to see?

a perfect example of this is how when i had first started doing gear, a buddy of mine was telling me how i shouldn't take them. about a month or so later, he starts ranting and raving about some new supplement (can't remember what it was) that he wants to get that is supposed to be as effective as gear. at that point, i asked him "why avoid gear but take that?", and he replies "cause gear is bad for you, and this is just a supplement?". of course, i asked him the questions as to what makes him think that supplement is safer, and he failed to come up with any reasonable explanations. though that was years back, something recently reminded me of it and now i gotta get some feedback from you guys on these similar circumstances?

**MrMeathead** · 05-10-2006, 05:17 PM

Originally Posted by ascendant

just had to ask a question about those who are all natural. for starters, i find it quite amusing that you're on a forum with "steroid" in the url's title.

I have thought about that a million times.

The world may never know why "natural" people choose to get a membership at this site. lol.

**StoneGRMI** · 05-10-2006, 05:40 PM

Originally Posted by MrMeathead

I have thought about that a million times.

The world may never know why "natural" people choose to get a membership at this site. lol.

I'm all "natural" and I'm glad to be here because I've gotten the best diet and weight training advice I can find. I'm also here because I've been curious about many things from supplements to steroids but some things may not be for me. I sure as hell know if I would ever take any steriods I'm still 3 or 4 years away from being ready.

**biglouie250** · 05-10-2006, 05:49 PM

you know when andro and all those prohormones really became popular back in like 97-98ish someone told me something to the affect of: "dude dont take that shit, you dont know whats in it atleast with juice you know what your getting yourself into".

Now that logic although simple has many truths to it, supplements are not governed by the FDA and there have been many cases where the nutritional info didnt match what was in the bottle. there are also no long term tests on the affects of many supplements. where as juice from a reputable vet company tells you exactly whats in the batch, and if its over/under dosed. the thing with juice that wards people off i feel or causes people to stereotype is the use of needles. lets face it there are people out there that are afraid of needles.

**SMAN12b** · 05-10-2006, 06:06 PM

MY 2 CENTS..... My avatar is all natural!! BEFORE I did AAS, I was your typical uneducated ignorant propaganda toting anti-steroid person. I thought that any steroid was not so much cheating but moreso "un-natural"
I trained naturally for my first competition and did very well in it and thought....gee maybe I should keep doing this and see how far I could go.
I started late in life as far as bodybuilding and competing so I had no real muscle density that most people get from years and years of heavy lifting so the next year I didn't do so well competing naturally and there were many competitors that somehow got past the lie detector and were competing on gear. this frustrated me and thinking I had no chance because they obviously had the advantage, I decided no more competing for me cause I started too late in life.
My personal trainer and coach used all the time and we talked about it and I started getting curious. which with my obsessive tendancies, I researched for over a year learning the TRUTH about steroids and realizing that they are NOT magic so I decided to go for it.

the moral of this story is that I think MOST of the general public are mislead into thinking as I did that steroids would MAKE you a HULK without having to work for it!! So, they think that is cheating.

I have since learned that AAS is NOT a magic pill to make you grow, just better SUMPLIMENTATION if you will, enabling the user to actually have to do MORE work in order to reap the benifits that AAS can offer only if we do the work! Basically it enables us to synthesize more protein to make more muscle but only if we consume more protein and tear down the muscles even more through heavier lifting and proper diet.

So now I am wholeheartedly in favor of PROPER AAS use!!

The government and media do not want the general public to know the truth about AAS. But it is OK for the cigerette industry to KILL millions of people each year LEGALLY

That is what's FVCKED UP!!!!

**biglouie250** · 05-10-2006, 06:24 PM

Originally Posted by SMAN12B

The government and media do not want the general public to know the truth about AAS. But it is OK for the cigerette industry to KILL millions of people each year LEGALLY

That is what's FVCKED UP!!!!

we need juice lobbyists in washington!!!

**RuhlFreak55** · 05-10-2006, 09:25 PM

Originally Posted by biglouie250

we need juice lobbyists in washington!!!

good idea.....seriously

**chest6** · 05-10-2006, 09:32 PM

Basically at this point. Im natural and I wont use aas for another couple years...I'll do anything as long as its not affecting my HPTA..I have like 15 bottles of supplements in my room adn when I came home my parents gave me this real pissed off look

**THE_DOME** · 05-10-2006, 09:38 PM

when people bring up the idea of steroids as cheating and harmful i relay the message that its not as bad as smoking or obesity.

**MrMeathead** · 05-10-2006, 10:41 PM

Originally Posted by THE_DOME

when people bring up the idea of steroids as cheating and harmful i relay the message that its not as bad as smoking or obesity.

I used to say the same thing but then i realized that it made me look like a user. People love to talk and that is the absolute last thing i want. Thats why I just smile

nod my head and agree with them. lol.

**ascendant** · 05-10-2006, 10:53 PM

Originally Posted by MrMeathead

I used to say the same thing but then i realized that it made me look like a user. People love to talk and that is the absolute last thing i want. Thats why I just smile

nod my head and agree with them. lol.

see, i'm on the opposite side of the spectrum when it comes to talking about it with people. i'm probably a little too open for my own good, but i'd rather educate people about gear and show them it's no big deal than let them continue to live in the ignorance most do now.

like this whole baseball garbage going on now. they really need to get over it. the majority of pro athletic sports players use gear, but they target specific individuals to make it look as if they're keeping the sports "clean". give me a break