Is Saddam right? - Devils Advocate.

[biglouie250]

You talk about all the troops that are dying.

How about the people that died when the WTC was bombed in 93 ?

How about the sailors that were killed in the USS Cole bombing ?

How about the govt employees, marines, and civilians that were killed during the numerous Embassy bombings ?

The fact that Clinton did nothing and let those innocent people fade away into history is why he is a coward.


you dont know how many times i hear this same ridiculous argument from liberal after liberal?

Since when do parents have the right to sign their kids up for the military, or to send them to war ?

Unless there is a draft, enlistment is VOLUNTARY.

It's amazing at the bullshit that comes out of people's mouths sometimes. *




*Lou, I'm not attacking you personally, I'm speaking in general, so don't take offense.*
The bold print corresponds to what I put in bold from the original post by Lou.

no offense taken. i see your points. i just think that its convienent how conservative some people act until something "liberal" happens in their lives. Like lets say your thoughts on gay marriage when you have a lesbian daughter (cough cough Dick Cheney). I wonder how quickly the vote for war would have been if each and every member of congress had a son or daughter that would be headed to war.

[QuieTSToRM33]

no offense taken. i see your points. i just think that its convienent how conservative some people act until something "liberal" happens in their lives. Like lets say your thoughts on gay marriage when you have a lesbian daughter (cough cough Dick Cheney). I wonder how quickly the vote for war would have been if each and every member of congress had a son or daughter that would be headed to war.

We will probably never know .... These kids grow up in upper class America and really dont have a reason to join the military, unless they feel that it is their duty to serve.

[gixxerboy1]

And if we were to leave Iraq, who knows what could happen ? Civil war for one, which probably would make us go back there later on. They could also get invaded, which could lead to some serious shit. The fact of the matter is that we can't leave Iraq until that country is stable. It might be today, it might be next week, it might be in 5 years.

But if we didn't go there in the first place that wouldn't be an issue. That mess was caused by us.

Saddam was a piece of shit. But there were more serious and immediate threats then him. Also if we are using the excuse of what he did to his people why didn't we do anything in Africa when they have a genocide going on?

[Phreak101]

But if we didn't go there in the first place that wouldn't be an issue. That mess was caused by us.

Saddam was a piece of shit. But there were more serious and immediate threats then him. Also if we are using the excuse of what he did to his people why didn't we do anything in Africa when they have a genocide going on?

Because their leaders never expressed an extreme hatred for the U.S., and their leaders also did not have the funds and connections to create/acquire WMD's.

Besides, Africa is the UN's territory, but let's not forget the #1 most charitable nation to Africa either...

[Phreak101]

i really dont hate GWB, i think he is in way over his head...... he is probably a really cool guy. But please PLEASEEEE dont make any comparisons with him to one the greatest presidents in US history.

agree there, I think Bush IS in way over his head, but he is not a warmongering Kubla Khan-esque president like all these liberals say he is.

Lincoln was considered one of the worst in his day, so what's wrong with comparing him to Bush now? Shit, Lincoln VIOLATED the constitution by NOT letting the South keep slaves, all the South wanted to do was do the exact same thing the US did to England.

[IronFreakX]

That's the Sandy sheehan or whatever her name is crap, bush killed my son bush killed my son..

NO, your son got killed by terrorists, bush didnt kill him, he signed up for himself, no1 forced him.

I feel for her and hope no1 has to go through this, but STOP PUTTING THE BLAME ON SOMEONE WHO ISNT TO BLAME!!!

IF YOU ENLIST, YOU CAN GET KILLED

If you dont want that chance, dont enlist, I dont see someone forcing you to.

[gixxerboy1]

Because their leaders never expressed an extreme hatred for the U.S., and their leaders also did not have the funds and connections to create/acquire WMD's.

Besides, Africa is the UN's territory, but let's not forget the #1 most charitable nation to Africa either...

So because there leader hates us is that reason for war? Alot of leaders hate us. Also there is no, was no, wasn't about to get any wmds. And if thats is the argument why didn't we go after Iran? They hate us. They openly admit they are trying to get wmd's.

The logic for going to Iraq makes sense to me. But if you use that same logic with other countries Iraq shouldn't have been first choice.

Unless its because of Bush Sr.

[Phreak101]

So because there leader hates us is that reason for war? Alot of leaders hate us. Also there is no, was no, wasn't about to get any wmds. And if thats is the argument why didn't we go after Iran? They hate us. They openly admit they are trying to get wmd's.

The logic for going to Iraq makes sense to me. But if you use that same logic with other countries Iraq shouldn't have been first choice.

Unless its because of Bush Sr.

I personally question whether it was the right thing to do don't get me wrong, but there is a difference between Iraq and Iran. Iraq's LEADER was using his people and his power to spew hatred about the US. Iran was, at the time, a bit more of a gray area. A lot of the operations that Iran uses are clandestine and carried out through other countries/agents.

Sadamm Hussein was a clear threat, and he was a figurehead that, once removed from power, would allow democracy to blossom. Unfortunately due to external influences, that has not happened. But when the world thought of tyranny in the Middle East, most thought of Sadamm Hussein. So it would make sense to remove him first if the true reasoning behind this war was democracy vs. dictatorship.

[gixxerboy1]

I personally question whether it was the right thing to do don't get me wrong, but there is a difference between Iraq and Iran. Iraq's LEADER was using his people and his power to spew hatred about the US. Iran was, at the time, a bit more of a gray area. A lot of the operations that Iran uses are clandestine and carried out through other countries/agents.

Sadamm Hussein was a clear threat, and he was a figurehead that, once removed from power, would allow democracy to blossom. Unfortunately due to external influences, that has not happened. But when the world thought of tyranny in the Middle East, most thought of Sadamm Hussein. So it would make sense to remove him first if the true reasoning behind this war was democracy vs. dictatorship.

I don't think that should be our call. Who are we to decide what kind of government they should have?

I agree about Iran. They used alot of other groups to do their dirty work. But to me thats more of a reason. Indirectly they were doing shit wrong. Also getting ride of them might have lead to dealing with the groups that they were using. Wear Iraq had no real ties to anyone else.

[biglouie250]

all very good points.

[Phreak101]

I don't think that should be our call. Who are we to decide what kind of government they should have?

I agree about Iran. They used alot of other groups to do their dirty work. But to me thats more of a reason. Indirectly they were doing shit wrong. Also getting ride of them might have lead to dealing with the groups that they were using. Wear Iraq had no real ties to anyone else.

I agree, it is not our call. I hate the whole damn thing personally, if it were up to me we'd still be where we were back in the early 1920's. Drunk, rich, and not giving a damn about the rest of the world's conflicts until it involved us or an ally directly.

[NightTrain]

ok i have a lot of views on this topic, but i will refrain from posting them..........
but i will say one thing...........
[U]always remember, you can say whatever you want..... it is your right...... it is your right because of what soldiers do everyday...../U]

[collar]

Ok, we shouldn't have attacked Iraq first that was just Bush's own agenda, but Saddam Hussein still needed to be stopped. What if no one would have tried to stop Hitler? Hussein was gassing people too but it's not as bad?And since when did Canadians start deciding whether or not our government is good?

everything is what if

[collar]

so bush invading iraq is not what what iraq tried to do to kuwait?

[PROTEINSHAKE]

I agree, it is not our call. I hate the whole damn thing personally, if it were up to me we'd still be where we were back in the early 1920's. Drunk, rich, and not giving a damn about the rest of the world's conflicts until it involved us or an ally directly.

hey ...that sounds like canada-except for the rich part

[Phreak101]

hey ...that sounds like canada-except for the rich part

One thing I do envy about Canada is how they haven't shit where they eat for the past 50 years...

[Hackamaniac]

ok i have a lot of views on this topic, but i will refrain from posting them..........
but i will say one thing...........
[U]always remember, you can say whatever you want..... it is your right...... it is your right because of what soldiers do everyday...../U]

YES all because people like you bro...I hope your still doing well..

[PROTEINSHAKE]

my contribution.....

[Tren Bull]

we all read the brutal stories about the saddam reign in Iraq. He certainly is a despicable person, however he brought up a good point in his trial just yesterday. when the prosecution started to speak about over 100k people killed by Hussein he had a legitimate response that made sense. He said something to the affect that "in any other country in the world if people were trying to start a military overthrow of the government you send in the army to stop this"............thoughts?

i suppose he brought up a good point, but he took it way too far. hed kill anyone he felt like just for the hell of it. there is no excuse for his actions

[NightTrain]

i agree with you getnjakked

[cj1capp]

He should still be in power.

The US had no right to invade and overthrow him.

BILLIONS of dollars spent on this ****ing war with so many SOLDIERS killled... for NOTHING.

The 9/11 site is still untouched. Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. Saddam has nothing to do with al queida.

Yet your lovely president wants to invade iraq FIRST right after 9/11. It is only after his counselors and advisors told him "maybe uhh we should go for afgahnistan first.." did he comply.

Has Bin Laden been caught? **** no. because it's never a priority in the first place.

It's Bin Laden who should be behind bars. Saddam Hussein is an evil man. but there are people out there far worse than him.

Your president and your government is a joke.

i am one vet who agrees with the above statement.

[breacherup]

You're speaking hypothetically. You don't know how gore would have dealt with the aftermath of 9/11. it could've gone both ways.

Bush is a war hungry president. his father was a war hungry president. he's just finishing daddy's business, IMO.

You're right in the sense that he's getting shit done; but in the wrong place! Why does Iraq have nearly all your manpower. Why are troops being held in Iraq on overtime when victory has already been declared? Why not focus all resources and manpower on the country that is responsible for what happened on 9/11 instead of a country that had no hand in it? those are the things that concern me.

His father was war hungry? That's funny because his father got the UN to approve the removal of Iraqi forces from Kuwait. He had more support in the world community than he did in his own congress, several people who were in office then voted against that war and for this one.
I think I even remember seeing Canadian troops there as well, not to mention a couple of years later in Somalia where they tortured a kid and videotaped it, which led to disbanding the Airborne Regiment

As for focusing resources and manpower on "the country" responsible, there in lies the problem. There were a group of people(al Qaeda) given sanctuary in a country who were responsible for the attacks on 9/11. The country is of course Afghanistan, and historically it has been a graveyard for large armies that attempted to occupy it.(Alexander, Britain, Soviet Union)
So, I'd say one mistake the U.S.President did not make was putting too many people in Afghanistan and giving them a big slow moving army and lot's of supply lines and bases to attack.
Of course if you don't think enough troops are being sent to fight the Taliban you can always volunteer yourself...

[Phreak101]

His father was war hungry? That's funny because his father got the UN to approve the removal of Iraqi forces from Kuwait. He had more support in the world community than he did in his own congress, several people who were in office then voted against that war and for this one.
I think I even remember seeing Canadian troops there as well, not to mention a couple of years later in Somalia where they tortured a kid and videotaped it, which led to disbanding the Airborne Regiment

As for focusing resources and manpower on "the country" responsible, there in lies the problem. There were a group of people(al Qaeda) given sanctuary in a country who were responsible for the attacks on 9/11. The country is of course Afghanistan, and historically it has been a graveyard for large armies that attempted to occupy it.(Alexander, Britain, Soviet Union)
So, I'd say one mistake the U.S.President did not make was putting too many people in Afghanistan and giving them a big slow moving army and lot's of supply lines and bases to attack.
Of course if you don't think enough troops are being sent to fight the Taliban you can always volunteer yourself...

Dude, you are by far one of the smartest Englishmen I have ever seen. I'd be proud to have you call me a yank.

[NightTrain]

Of course if you don't think enough troops are being sent to fight the Taliban you can always volunteer yourself...

amen brother

[RA]

so bush invading iraq is not what what iraq tried to do to kuwait?

I dont remember the U.N. passing any resolutions telling kuwait to do anything.

[collar]

lmao

[slob]

keep in mind, the only info we have of him is what is GIVEN TO US by the media.

[RA]

keep in mind, the only info we have of him is what is GIVEN TO US by the media.

So in reality hes a real nice guy huh?

[gixxerboy1]

So in reality hes a real nice guy huh?

I wouldn't say that. But the media sensationalizes everything. The media job is to get ratings. Its not to report facts anymore.

[RA]

I wouldn't say that. But the media sensationalizes everything. The media job is to get ratings. Its not to report facts anymore.

I would leave it to anyone on the board to tell me where they made something up about him. NBC, CBS, ABC...all liberal organizations who only demonize republicans. Not someone like him.

[Polska]

Of course if you don't think enough troops are being sent to fight the Taliban you can always volunteer yourself...

I was under the impression that if you enlist you have no say in where you are going to be stationed. I would not want to be in Iraq supporting a war I don't think should exist in the first place.

[biglouie250]

I would leave it to anyone on the board to tell me where they made something up about him. NBC, CBS, ABC...all liberal organizations who only demonize republicans. Not someone like him.

liberals dont demonize republicans, republicans are the ones that call liberals godless and amoral. i used to be a republican until the lot of republicans strayed away from their core principles. Like keeping the govt out of your lives and cutting govt spending. this past administration has had a very liberal policy in both of these areas.

[Psychotron]

No way in hell would we be better off with Gore. If he would be anything like Clinton this country would be sunk. Yeah, everybody liked us..we got hit..did nothing..over and over and over again. 93 wtc, the cole, our embassys, etc DID NOTHING.

Bush is kicking terrorist ass and taking names. I couldnt give a shit less what the rest of the world thinks.

Im not a democrat but Clinton did a pretty damn good job as president...

[RA]

liberals dont demonize republicans, republicans are the ones that call liberals godless and amoral. i used to be a republican until the lot of republicans strayed away from their core principles. Like keeping the govt out of your lives and cutting govt spending. this past administration has had a very liberal policy in both of these areas.

Funniest thing Ive heard all day. Then what have they done to George Bush? Newt Gingrich? Dick Chaney? I could keep going but you get my point.

[RA]

Im not a democrat but Clinton did a pretty damn good job as president...

He is the cause of 9/11 IMO. He was asleep at the wheel. No way did he do a "good job"

[RA]

liberals dont demonize republicans, republicans are the ones that call liberals godless and amoral. i used to be a republican until the lot of republicans strayed away from their core principles. Like keeping the govt out of your lives and cutting govt spending. this past administration has had a very liberal policy in both of these areas.

and if your sticking up for low govt spending your defending the wrong crowd. Thats never going to happen with libs.

[gixxerboy1]

liberals dont demonize republicans, republicans are the ones that call liberals godless and amoral. i used to be a republican until the lot of republicans strayed away from their core principles. Like keeping the govt out of your lives and cutting govt spending. this past administration has had a very liberal policy in both of these areas.

Republicans do more name calling then liberals. I don't agree with either part doing it. And the republicans leading through fear is just wrong. Do you really think Democrat President would do nothing if we were attacked again?

[biglouie250]

Funniest thing Ive heard all day. Then what have they done to George Bush? Newt Gingrich? Dick Chaney? I could keep going but you get my point.

lol!!!! cmon!!! these guys had no hand in their demize??? GWB is the definition of open mouth insert foot. Newt sunk himself with his BS "contract for america". For god sakes Dick Cheney shot someone in the face!!!!!!!

and if your sticking up for low govt spending your defending the wrong crowd. Thats never going to happen with libs.

im not defending the dems, as i am not one. im just saying that the current administration cant say that dems overspend given what they have done. I vote for who i believe will do the best job according to my beliefs, whether they are dem or repub is irrelevant. i have voted for both parties in the past.

[gixxerboy1]

I vote for who i believe will do the best job according to my beliefs, whether they are dem or repub is irrelevant. i have voted for both parties in the past.

I'm the same way. I think our present situation is pretty bad politician wise. I really think we need to make some changes on how things are done.

[Ufa]

He should still be in power.

The US had no right to invade and overthrow him.

BILLIONS of dollars spent on this ****ing war with so many SOLDIERS killled... for NOTHING.

The 9/11 site is still untouched. Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. Saddam has nothing to do with al queida.

Yet your lovely president wants to invade iraq FIRST right after 9/11. It is only after his counselors and advisors told him "maybe uhh we should go for afgahnistan first.." did he comply.

Has Bin Laden been caught? **** no. because it's never a priority in the first place.

It's Bin Laden who should be behind bars. Saddam Hussein is an evil man. but there are people out there far worse than him.

Your president and your government is a joke.

This guy has a good point. Iraq made Sadam. One hundred civilians die
every day in Iraq. When Sadam was in power he made things work.
When he gased the Kurds the US was behind him.