Anyone ever date....the ALIEN?

[Mike Dura]

Yeah, it's a first for me....dating the illegal alien! It's an entry into another world where your concerns completely shift and you start to focus on that social problem that is illegal immigration or the expoitation of refugees by American employers.

Of course, seeing that my girlfriend is here illegally, I'm sympathetic. If you're living in a place where the government is falling apart and there's little hope to better your cause, you do what you have to do. In the case of life or death, life comes before law. Americans may not like that but I think you have to go beyond nationalities and get into the rhelm of humanity. There you'll find clarity and concern for all peoples....IMO.

[GUnit33]

I could see this thread turning bad fast...hopefully everyone is calm about the subject....

My take on illegal aliens, even if the woman is drop dead gorgeous is that if you're here illegally, go back, and come through legally. Why come her illegally? You've got to be a complete moron not to be able to pass the test you have tot ake to get into the states. This way we don't have all the issues that are always in the media, and in turn possibly less racism towards hispanics and other immigrants.

Here in omaha we have a lot of hispanics and a lot of sudense, and I don't mind it, but it gets a little old when, working in a job that we run ccredit checks, the person gives you an ID that says they are 40 when in fact they are younger than you are. I've told people to leave the store before because I didnt want to call the cops, but that identity theft stuff is ridiculous.

[carter]

Yeah, it's a first for me....dating the illegal alien! It's an entry into another world where your concerns completely shift and you start to focus on that social problem that is illegal immigration or the expoitation of refugees by American employers.

Of course, seeing that my girlfriend is here illegally, I'm sympathetic. If you're living in a place where the government is falling apart and there's little hope to better your cause, you do what you have to do. In the case of life or death, life comes before law. Americans may not like that but I think you have to go beyond nationalities and get into the rhelm of humanity. There you'll find clarity and concern for all peoples....IMO.

i could say something very funny right now but its a bit arrogant and narrow minded .. so i'll hold off... for now

[Carlos_E]

i could say something very funny right now but its a bit arrogant and narrow minded .. so i'll hold off... for now

Great idea.

[Mike Dura]

I don't get defensive about the topic. I think it's a way of learning about other people's values and learning about how informed peoples oppinions are. I'm sure many crude types will chime in....in fact, look at one of the responses below....they are out there! Ignorance abounds no doubt.

But granting such immaturity, at this point in time, I don't feel I've fully researched the problem (have you?) so my oppinion on this is tentative and in want of more info. I only speak out of some of my experiences from what I've seen directly and what hispanic people have told me about their Gringo employers. It bothers me. I sympathize with these people. Yet, I feel I need to hear more about the other half of the story. So it's back to research. But I can say even with more info, I think where you will draw the line will ultimately be a matter of how broad-minded you are. Everyone has their limits.

I could see this thread turning bad fast...hopefully everyone is calm about the subject....

My take on illegal aliens, even if the woman is drop dead gorgeous is that if you're here illegally, go back, and come through legally. Why come her illegally? You've got to be a complete moron not to be able to pass the test you have tot ake to get into the states. This way we don't have all the issues that are always in the media, and in turn possibly less racism towards hispanics and other immigrants.

Here in omaha we have a lot of hispanics and a lot of sudense, and I don't mind it, but it gets a little old when, working in a job that we run ccredit checks, the person gives you an ID that says they are 40 when in fact they are younger than you are. I've told people to leave the store before because I didnt want to call the cops, but that identity theft stuff is ridiculous.

[gixxerboy1]

I don't agree with it. I know the process might be hard to come here legally but its something you should have to do. My gf and here family were able to do it. If there county is so bad that they have to leave nobody says the have to escape to the USA. There are other countries in the world that may be better then their homeland.

[Phreak101]

I don't get defensive about the topic. I think it's a way of learning about other people's values and learning about how informed peoples oppinions are. I'm sure many crude types will chime in....in fact, look at one of the responses below....they are out there! Ignorance abounds no doubt.

But granting such immaturity, at this point in time, I don't feel I've fully researched the problem (have you?) so my oppinion on this is tentative and in want of more info. I only speak out of some of my experiences from what I've seen directly and what hispanic people have told me about their Gringo employers. It bothers me. I sympathize with these people. Yet, I feel I need to hear more about the other half of the story. So it's back to research. But I can say even with more info, I think where you will draw the line will ultimately be a matter of how broad-minded you are. Everyone has their limits.

The other side of the story is these people are here ILEGALLY and choose to come here, knowing the risks and stories of working in this country.

I don't sympathize for coal mine workers when they get black lung, and I won't sympathize for illegal aliens who feel exploited by American bosses. It's a CHOICE. Supply and demand. There are plenty of Mexicans in supply, if you're not a citizen of this country, you are not entitled to minuimum wage. Deal with it. If you want minimum wage, benefits, and rights, do it the LEGAL way.

Besides, you oughta look up how hard it is for an American to work in Mexico...

HOWEVER, good luck with the girl Mike. I encourage you, if it goes long term, to look into VISA or work permits for her.

[Mike Dura]

You really have to use your imagination. Imagine yourself desperate and your situation in your homeland is dire. You hear that if you go to america, you'll have a chance at a life. What do you do? Answer: You do what you have to do. These people are doing what they think they have to do....to live.

I don't agree with it. I know the process might be hard to come here legally but its something you should have to do. My gf and here family were able to do it. If there county is so bad that they have to leave nobody says the have to escape to the USA. There are other countries in the world that may be better then their homeland.

[Phreak101]

You really have to use your imagination. Imagine yourself desperate and your situation in your homeland is dire. You hear that if you go to america, you'll have a chance at a life. What do you do? Answer: You do what you have to do. These people are doing what they think they have to do....to live.

A lot of these people are stealing identities and destroying border towns with corruption and crime. Yes humanity and life are big decisions, but a growing majority of these people are trying to establish lives here at the expense of American citizens.

I respect the right to live and breathe, but I do not respect the right to live at the expense of someone else's livelyhood.

[gixxerboy1]

You really have to use your imagination. Imagine yourself desperate and your situation in your homeland is dire. You hear that if you go to america, you'll have a chance at a life. What do you do? Answer: You do what you have to do. These people are doing what they think they have to do....to live.

I not saying if i was in the same situation i wouldn't do what i have to do. But i don't agree with it. My girl grew up in communist Poland. rust me i heard a lot of bad stories. But Her family could have left for a western European country too beside the USA if they were just trying to escape the hardships.

[biglouie250]

if you can perform a task that helps our economy(basically hold a job), learn to speak english, obey the laws of the land and pay your taxes i see no problem with immigration. my dad is an immigrant(citizen now tho).

we cant just take in other countries garbage tho. i dont want my tax dollars to go to unemployed immigrants that came here to exploit rather then help the USA.

[notorious_mem]

Why come her illegally? You've got to be a complete moron not to be able to pass the test you have tot ake to get into the states. by g unit
that test is actually a biaatch my american history class took that test without any preperation to it.nobody passed with a c or better.

[gixxerboy1]

Why come her illegally? You've got to be a complete moron not to be able to pass the test you have tot ake to get into the states. by g unit
that test is actually a biaatch my american history class took that test without any preperation to it.nobody passed with a c or better.

That's the test to become a citizen. Witch yes the test is easy and bs. Getting a green card is the first step to come into the country legally. Witch is much harder.

[notorious_mem]

That's the test to become a citizen. Witch yes the test is easy and bs. Getting a green card is the first step to come into the country legally. Witch is much harder.

whatever test i took sucked big a$$.made me feel a little dumber.

[gixxerboy1]

whatever test i took sucked big a$$.made me feel a little dumber.

My girl told me they questions they asked her. It was pretty basic and was only a hand full of questions. It was a pass/fail. They didn't actually a grade.

[taiboxa]

i never dated an alien but i have dated the predator

[notorious_mem]

i never dated an alien but i have dated the predator

i laughed till i pee peed

[Doc.Sust]

:_a**uct:
aliens???

[Doc.Sust]

i tried to post the smiley face gettng a**ucted by an alien tractor beam,but it didnt works, oh well it was dumb anyway.

as far as dating an illegal ailien, more power to you! best of luck!

[J.S.N.]

this is actually a really good idea you get sick of her call INS and you never have to talk to her again.

[Ocean Beach]

Mike you are from Long Island correct? Im originally from there but now live in Phoenix.

Over the summer I had a girlfriend who lives in Nogales, an inland border city. It was a fascinating experience staying in Mexico (weekends).

Of course the difference in standard of living is shocking. No hot water and a concrete-floored house of several hundred square feet. Mode of transportation was walking.

All this within view of the land of opportunity. (We would sometimes watch the TV channel that showed the lineup of cars approaching the international border)

Definite cultural differences. Latinas are more traditional and yes more passionate.

Good luck bro.

[CSAR]

Mike, in all seriousness, I wish you nothing but the best with your woman and I hope it all works out. I worked lots of summers with illegals in SoCal and they were really wonderful people. They often shared their lunch, talked about life in Mexico, and even had me over for dinner a few times. Think about the jobs that most Americans don't want to do - you'll probably find an illegal doing them. Anyhow, before I get too comfortable on the soapbox, I highly advise you to start researching how to change her status from illegal to legal. Look at the US immigration homepage and if you have to, call an immigration office from a public payphone (like in a mall) and describe the situation to them without getting specific. They could be pricks or they could be helpful - just a suggestion.

[paulzane]

Looking at the standard of English on this site ..... I am afraid that MOST (not all) of you would probably fail a standard English test anyway!!

[Snrf]

I outstayed my US visa once, and it was amazing the difference in attitude towards me compared to say a mexican who had done it. We even got pulled by cops and they asked us for ID, saw my visa was outta date and said it was cool, "You're not really an immigrant" I wanted to say "Why, cuz im white and british?" but I wasn't in a position to be a smartass...I just drove across to canada in my boys trunk.

[Mizfit]

theres a system in place for a reason. It might not always work but it's the only system that exists.

There may be tons of illegals who are really in the Us or wherever to get a better life, but the flip side of the coin is - poverty often causes an increase in crime - alot of these illegals still live in poverty due to not being able to legally work - therefore the risk is high for those who are legal.

[Mike Dura]

Sure a system is in place for a reason. That's obvious. But you have to go beyond the obvious and think more fundamentally. You can start with the question, what's the point of the system? The point of the system is that a system is designed to serve man (this is in stark contrast to those who slavishly behave as if man is to serve the system). When the system is failing to serve man, then it's time to change the system.

The fundamental task of an education is that it should teach you to be critical of systems or rules so that we are not slaves to rules or rulers. That's what a democracy is all about. The point of being critical is that once an inadequate system or rule is identified as such (through having a critical attitude and questioning authority), one can strive to improve the system or the rule.

To properly assess a system, however, one must first suspend judgement and gather enough information. It's probably better to hold one's tongue until that research is done. After all, what good is an uninformed oppinion?

For me, I'm in the stage of gathering research so I can have an informed oppinion on the topic. But I'm grateful that at least I'm aware that I'm outside of the topic and I need further research. That's why a gave that qualifier that I'm going to speak out of the limited perspective I have and acknowledge that more info is needed - that I give, at best, a tentative oppinion - the jury is still out.

There's definately much that needs to be taken into account with this hot topic but unfortunately, those who take such strong stances on it often are under informed. It's not unlike how steroids are treated in the media. What comes across is how underinformed most the journalists are on the topic. In part, that's because time is money and it's better to pop out a sensationalized, story than it is to truly inform the audience who take little time to delve into and give good consideration of the information anyway. Information is much like fast food: If it tastes good going down the hatch and it's cheap and easily prepared, the masses buy it. It's that lack of sincerity and integrity that cheapens the news these days. Good oppinions don't come so cheap and easy and good information is not about entertainment and gloss.

theres a system in place for a reason. It might not always work but it's the only system that exists.

There may be tons of illegals who are really in the Us or wherever to get a better life, but the flip side of the coin is - poverty often causes an increase in crime - alot of these illegals still live in poverty due to not being able to legally work - therefore the risk is high for those who are legal.

[Mike Dura]

That cops ignorance served you well that day!

I outstayed my US visa once, and it was amazing the difference in attitude towards me compared to say a mexican who had done it. We even got pulled by cops and they asked us for ID, saw my visa was outta date and said it was cool, "You're not really an immigrant" I wanted to say "Why, cuz im white and british?" but I wasn't in a position to be a smartass...I just drove across to canada in my boys trunk.

[Mike Dura]

I appreciate your response. I've grown fond of the Latin community and I've had nothing but positive experiences with the people I've met. I'm in the process of researching the issue and I'm highly sympathetic to any vulnerable person who face disadvantage, oppression, or injustice in any form. That's a good lead - I'm going to check out that immigration homepage. Thanks.

Mike, in all seriousness, I wish you nothing but the best with your woman and I hope it all works out. I worked lots of summers with illegals in SoCal and they were really wonderful people. They often shared their lunch, talked about life in Mexico, and even had me over for dinner a few times. Think about the jobs that most Americans don't want to do - you'll probably find an illegal doing them. Anyhow, before I get too comfortable on the soapbox, I highly advise you to start researching how to change her status from illegal to legal. Look at the US immigration homepage and if you have to, call an immigration office from a public payphone (like in a mall) and describe the situation to them without getting specific. They could be pricks or they could be helpful - just a suggestion.

[Mike Dura]

That sounds good but can you back up what your saying? Provide some statistics and sources and only then can we assess the veracity of that oppinion. If you're source is the "700 club" or the Christian monitor, (not that it is), I'd say, look for another source.

A lot of these people are stealing identities and destroying border towns with corruption and crime. Yes humanity and life are big decisions, but a growing majority of these people are trying to establish lives here at the expense of American citizens.

I respect the right to live and breathe, but I do not respect the right to live at the expense of someone else's livelyhood.

[Mike Dura]

There are things I do everyday that I don't agree with but I do them because I have to. If you have to move, you move and it's not a matter of the agreeability of your actions in the eyes of others, it's about doing what you have to do.

I not saying if i was in the same situation i wouldn't do what i have to do. But i don't agree with it. My girl grew up in communist Poland. rust me i heard a lot of bad stories. But Her family could have left for a western European country too beside the USA if they were just trying to escape the hardships.

[thegodfather]

That sounds good but can you back up what your saying? Provide some statistics and sources and only then can we assess the veracity of that oppinion. If you're source is the "700 club" or the Christian monitor, (not that it is), I'd say, look for another source.

That statistics proving that illegal aliens take out more than they put in have been posted over and over........and over again... Yes humanity is important, but so is the humanity of the people living in the country that these illegal aliens propose to freeload off of. What is even more apprehensible is the fact that SOME (i wont use blanket statements) of these people who come here illegally do not even attempt to assimilate into our society and want to keep their own language&traditions rather than become part of the American society.

Also, if i hear the MYTH that Americans do not want the jobs that these people perform I think Im going to have a ****ing aneurism. If you think about this situation with any degree of rationality and logic you will understand that Americans do not want these jobs AT THAT PAY RATE. And, since we're thinking rationally and logically here, one would understand that had these illegal aliens not been here to offer their labor MUCH cheaper than what an American person can survive off of, then employers would pay more for the American worker to once again find such jobs desirable.

Mike, Im sure you're girlfriend is a very nice lady, and on a person to person level I would not have a problem with her. However, the entire situation with illegal aliens as a whole is just absolutely astounding to me, and im astonished that the American government sits by, bends over, and takes it up the ass while thousands break into our country each day to suck up our financial resources.

[Mike Dura]

If that information is so available, it shouldn't be a problem to provide the support to back up your oppinions! You definately have strong oppinions and that's easy and common. It's not as easy and it's less common to develop an oppinion out of facts (and sources from which those facts came from so the validity of those facts can be assessed). One thing we do have in common, it seems, we both need more information and either you will go out and get that information or you'll just rant. As for me, I'm going to research it and as I learn more, I'll be sure to post.

That statistics proving that illegal aliens take out more than they put in have been posted over and over........and over again... Yes humanity is important, but so is the humanity of the people living in the country that these illegal aliens propose to freeload off of. What is even more apprehensible is the fact that SOME (i wont use blanket statements) of these people who come here illegally do not even attempt to assimilate into our society and want to keep their own language&traditions rather than become part of the American society.

Also, if i hear the MYTH that Americans do not want the jobs that these people perform I think Im going to have a ****ing aneurism. If you think about this situation with any degree of rationality and logic you will understand that Americans do not want these jobs AT THAT PAY RATE. And, since we're thinking rationally and logically here, one would understand that had these illegal aliens not been here to offer their labor MUCH cheaper than what an American person can survive off of, then employers would pay more for the American worker to once again find such jobs desirable.

Mike, Im sure you're girlfriend is a very nice lady, and on a person to person level I would not have a problem with her. However, the entire situation with illegal aliens as a whole is just absolutely astounding to me, and im astonished that the American government sits by, bends over, and takes it up the ass while thousands break into our country each day to suck up our financial resources.

[Phreak101]

That statistics proving that illegal aliens take out more than they put in have been posted over and over........and over again... Yes humanity is important, but so is the humanity of the people living in the country that these illegal aliens propose to freeload off of. What is even more apprehensible is the fact that SOME (i wont use blanket statements) of these people who come here illegally do not even attempt to assimilate into our society and want to keep their own language&traditions rather than become part of the American society.

Also, if i hear the MYTH that Americans do not want the jobs that these people perform I think Im going to have a ****ing aneurism. If you think about this situation with any degree of rationality and logic you will understand that Americans do not want these jobs AT THAT PAY RATE. And, since we're thinking rationally and logically here, one would understand that had these illegal aliens not been here to offer their labor MUCH cheaper than what an American person can survive off of, then employers would pay more for the American worker to once again find such jobs desirable.

Mike, Im sure you're girlfriend is a very nice lady, and on a person to person level I would not have a problem with her. However, the entire situation with illegal aliens as a whole is just absolutely astounding to me, and im astonished that the American government sits by, bends over, and takes it up the ass while thousands break into our country each day to suck up our financial resources.

Well said to a degree, but the problem lies deeper than that. Illegals ARE taxed on the pay wages, but the taxes are FEDERAL. Meanwhile, it is the STATES that are required to pay benefits for these people.

So basically Uncle Sam doesn't give a flying **** about illegals because they make $$ off them just like any American worker. Meanwhile states like Texas, New Mexico, California, even Illinois are getting raped financially by these people looking for health care, schooling, etc. So, in essence, Mexicans DO have a right to be a little PO'd because they ARE paying taxes, but they are not educated enough in the American system to realize that their tax dollars are not supporting the very benefits they are demanding.

The victims here are both the illegals and the citizens of the states supporting them. Regardless, it needs to be addressed.

Mike, if you want proof, visit a town in deep Southern Cali or Texas, you'll see al the proof you need about the destruction being caused.

[Mike Dura]

About employees being payed less by American employers, whose fault is that? Not the imigrant. That's an illegal practice done by the Americanos. And local government hear in Suffolk county is passing legislation that fines employees who hire illegals. But I question that strategy. On the one hand it protects the imigrant from explotation, on the other hand, how do they work? Maybe the latter is the point. If it is, maybe imigrants will not try to come here because we took away opportunity. I guess all of this begs the question in want of more information. That's why I'm big on doing the research.

That statistics proving that illegal aliens take out more than they put in have been posted over and over........and over again... Yes humanity is important, but so is the humanity of the people living in the country that these illegal aliens propose to freeload off of. What is even more apprehensible is the fact that SOME (i wont use blanket statements) of these people who come here illegally do not even attempt to assimilate into our society and want to keep their own language&traditions rather than become part of the American society.

Also, if i hear the MYTH that Americans do not want the jobs that these people perform I think Im going to have a ****ing aneurism. If you think about this situation with any degree of rationality and logic you will understand that Americans do not want these jobs AT THAT PAY RATE. And, since we're thinking rationally and logically here, one would understand that had these illegal aliens not been here to offer their labor MUCH cheaper than what an American person can survive off of, then employers would pay more for the American worker to once again find such jobs desirable.

Mike, Im sure you're girlfriend is a very nice lady, and on a person to person level I would not have a problem with her. However, the entire situation with illegal aliens as a whole is just absolutely astounding to me, and im astonished that the American government sits by, bends over, and takes it up the ass while thousands break into our country each day to suck up our financial resources.

[Phreak101]

About employees being payed less by American employers, whose fault is that? Not the imigrant. That's an illegal practice done by the Americanos. And local government hear in Suffolk county is passing legislation that fines employees who hire illegals. But I question that strategy. On the one hand it protects the imigrant from explotation, on the other hand, how do they work? Maybe the latter is the point. If it is, maybe imigrants will not try to come here because we took away opportunity. I guess all of this begs the question in want of more information. That's why I'm big on doing the research.

All that needs to be done is allow work visas for the STATES these people are in. If you are an alien and you have a California work permit, you could go back and forth only to Cali and work. You should, of course, be TAXED on that permit, and the tax dollars will go to the STATE. That way, the state can provide benefits to these people, have the benefits be backed by the tax dollars, and everyone is happy.

Having statewide work permits would also prevent the problem of these people jumping state to state, why would they want to leave the state they are in if they are legally there and paying taxes to support the infrastructure of that state? To me that's win/win for everyone.

[Mike Dura]

I've heard this argument before and it makes sense. It's an interesting problem and although I can't be completely detached (mi amore is an illegal), I have a curiosity to learn more about this topic for practical reasons and just out of curiosity. But as far as your last statement about the destruction it's causing - in what way? The burden on the states or crime? I'd love to see a source on that because many organizations that provide this information have agendas and this topic is highly politicized.

Well said to a degree, but the problem lies deeper than that. Illegals ARE taxed on the pay wages, but the taxes are FEDERAL. Meanwhile, it is the STATES that are required to pay benefits for these people.

So basically Uncle Sam doesn't give a flying **** about illegals because they make $$ off them just like any American worker. Meanwhile states like Texas, New Mexico, California, even Illinois are getting raped financially by these people looking for health care, schooling, etc. So, in essence, Mexicans DO have a right to be a little PO'd because they ARE paying taxes, but they are not educated enough in the American system to realize that their tax dollars are not supporting the very benefits they are demanding.

The victims here are both the illegals and the citizens of the states supporting them. Regardless, it needs to be addressed.

Mike, if you want proof, visit a town in deep Southern Cali or Texas, you'll see al the proof you need about the destruction being caused.

[Mike Dura]

You sound pretty informed on this topic. Why are you interested in this? Do you have any recommendations on researching it? I have some ideas but any feedback is appreciated.

All that needs to be done is allow work visas for the STATES these people are in. If you are an alien and you have a California work permit, you could go back and forth only to Cali and work. You should, of course, be TAXED on that permit, and the tax dollars will go to the STATE. That way, the state can provide benefits to these people, have the benefits be backed by the tax dollars, and everyone is happy.

Having statewide work permits would also prevent the problem of these people jumping state to state, why would they want to leave the state they are in if they are legally there and paying taxes to support the infrastructure of that state? To me that's win/win for everyone.

[Phreak101]

You sound pretty informed on this topic. Why are you interested in this? Do you have any recommendations on researching it? I have some ideas but any feedback is appreciated.

I'm a big supporter of free market economics but I'm also a big supporter of immigration control (mainly due to terrorist possibilities). I realized that beliefs against immigration directly contradticted my economic beliefs, so I started researching the positives of Mexican influence on American economy. Suffice to say there aren't really a lot, however, that is due to American policy. We need to reform immigration, as it is not fair to the American public to have these people swarm into our country and exploit it, however, there are plenty of opportunities for businesses and the government if we can figure out a way to allow these people to work legally and still support the benefits they desire through taxation.

IMO, Mexico and Mexicans are going about this in the VERY wrong way. They are not entitiled to anything, and to rebel AGAINST assimilation is just wrong. There is nothing wrng with being proud of your heritage, but I don't need a bunch of Mexicans waving Mexican flags in my town (Aurora, IL has roughly 400,000 Mexican people in it, it is next to my town) telling me how much I need them here. You wanna impress me? Learn English and do it legally. There are plenty of other immigrants dying to come here but they have an ocean stopping them, not a fence. I got a taxi ride from a Polish engineer the other day. A good friend of mine is also a dentist from jordan, but he busses tables here because he needs to get re-liscensed. THESE are the types of immigrants we need, Mexicans really have no legs to stand on when it comes to "contributions". Then again, bus my tables, mow my lawns, collect your check, pay your taxes, and STFU, and you're cool in my eyes.

Mike, if you'd like to do some research on the topic on both sides, check out the Minuteman Project and the ACLU's website regarding immigration (it may still be there). Both sides have their opinions, and somewhere in the middle you can find fact.

Good luck.

[Mike Dura]

Thanks. I'm genuinely interested in the topic but I've got much research to do. That's a good lead though. Thanks.

I'm a big supporter of free market economics but I'm also a big supporter of immigration control (mainly due to terrorist possibilities). I realized that beliefs against immigration directly contradticted my economic beliefs, so I started researching the positives of Mexican influence on American economy. Suffice to say there aren't really a lot, however, that is due to American policy. We need to reform immigration, as it is not fair to the American public to have these people swarm into our country and exploit it, however, there are plenty of opportunities for businesses and the government if we can figure out a way to allow these people to work legally and still support the benefits they desire through taxation.

IMO, Mexico and Mexicans are going about this in the VERY wrong way. They are not entitiled to anything, and to rebel AGAINST assimilation is just wrong. There is nothing wrng with being proud of your heritage, but I don't need a bunch of Mexicans waving Mexican flags in my town (Aurora, IL has roughly 400,000 Mexican people in it, it is next to my town) telling me how much I need them here. You wanna impress me? Learn English and do it legally. There are plenty of other immigrants dying to come here but they have an ocean stopping them, not a fence. I got a taxi ride from a Polish engineer the other day. A good friend of mine is also a dentist from jordan, but he busses tables here because he needs to get re-liscensed. THESE are the types of immigrants we need, Mexicans really have no legs to stand on when it comes to "contributions". Then again, bus my tables, mow my lawns, collect your check, pay your taxes, and STFU, and you're cool in my eyes.

Mike, if you'd like to do some research on the topic on both sides, check out the Minuteman Project and the ACLU's website regarding immigration (it may still be there). Both sides have their opinions, and somewhere in the middle you can find fact.

Good luck.

[paulzane]

And we haven't even started on the UK yet ...... now that is where they have problems!