calling military personel

**CSAR** · 05-15-2007, 10:01 PM

Originally Posted by Flack

I knew plenty of SEALS that crossed over to be PJ's (prararescue) because they thought it was more challenging.

I'm not sure about this. While it is possible, it would not be a smart move. To my knowledge, a Navy SEAL HM (corpsman) and a PJ go through the Army's 18 Delta school for combat medicine, which is what Army Special Forces medics also go through.

After graduating from BUD/S and SQT, SEALs must serve a minimum of 6 years. If they decided not to re-enlist at the end of their 6-year stint, the average SEAL is going to be E-5 or greater in rank. If a SEAL then decided to enlist in the Air Force to become a PJ, they'd be able to enter as an E-3 and not at their Naval rank. Why would someone give up two pay grades to do this? If they really wanted to be an HM, they can run a request up their chain of command. The Navy doesn't have to honor their request, but with the need for SEAL HM's, they'd seriously take everything into consideration before making a final decision. The lack of SEAL HM's is the reason why PJ's are often attached to SEAL units. The 18 Delta combat medicine course is one of the most technically difficult courses within the military. I heard that the final test is keeping a gut-shot animal (usually a goat or sheep) alive for 24 hours, but not sure about that.

What I will totally agree with is the treatment the AF affords its personnel. I was always amazed at the facilities available on an AF base compared with those of the Army and Navy. The AF is a model for how military personnel should live.

**JDawg1536** · 05-16-2007, 12:02 AM

Originally Posted by CSAR

I'm not sure about this. While it is possible, it would not be a smart move. To my knowledge, a Navy SEAL HM (corpsman) and a PJ go through the Army's 18 Delta school for combat medicine, which is what Army Special Forces medics also go through.

After graduating from BUD/S and SQT, SEALs must serve a minimum of 6 years. If they decided not to re-enlist at the end of their 6-year stint, the average SEAL is going to be E-5 or greater in rank. If a SEAL then decided to enlist in the Air Force to become a PJ, they'd be able to enter as an E-3 and not at their Naval rank. Why would someone give up two pay grades to do this? If they really wanted to be an HM, they can run a request up their chain of command. The Navy doesn't have to honor their request, but with the need for SEAL HM's, they'd seriously take everything into consideration before making a final decision. The lack of SEAL HM's is the reason why PJ's are often attached to SEAL units. The 18 Delta combat medicine course is one of the most technically difficult courses within the military. I heard that the final test is keeping a gut-shot animal (usually a goat or sheep) alive for 24 hours, but not sure about that.

What I will totally agree with is the treatment the AF affords its personnel. I was always amazed at the facilities available on an AF base compared with those of the Army and Navy. The AF is a model for how military personnel should live.

Im not sure what you mean when you say they would be an E-3. I have heard of people losing rank crossing over, but more often than not they wont. I know a Marine that lost 1 stripe (E-7 to E-6), and another who went from E-4 to E-3, but I know many more that have kept rank. My friend who is CCT told me that right now there are lots of SEALs trying to cross over the AFSOC. Something about a much better chance of getting on good missions or something like that, due to the number of personnel in SEALs compared to PJ and CCT....... Second hand info, so dont quote me.

**JDawg1536** · 05-16-2007, 12:08 AM

Originally Posted by Flack

Thor, everyone always thinks of rangers or seals for the sof community. While they are incredibly demanding jobs and Iam not knocking them at all I would say definitely do you research on every option available. There are alot of options out there and dont listen to too much of what recruiters have to say they get a bonus for putting you in any sof carreer field. Try to talk to people who have been in each field that you are interested in. I myself didnt make it all the way through the AF Combat Control pipeline but I did make it through a year and have a good amount of knowledge about that and Pararescue and TACP which Iam currently in. Pararescue in my opinion is more demanding overall then any other sof job. Do a search about the pipeline and you will find it to be incredibly challenging both in physically and mentally. I knew plenty of SEALS that crossed over to be PJ's (prararescue) because they thought it was more challenging. Obviously everyone has there own opinion of the best of the best so take everything with a grain of salt even my opinion. However I will say this and I dont think anyone can argue with the fact that the AF will give you the best treatment and quality of life without a doubt. Any of the sof choices will open doors for you and will make you a much better person....but imho go AF for a better life and a great job. Plus you get an incredible amount of schools that alot of times you wont get with the seals or rangers. I dont have that grad standards for pj's but i know its very similar to seals with a 6-8mile open water swim 10mile run calistenics etc..after dive school. Just make sure you look into everything very closely. If you would like you can PM or e-mail me if you have any more questions.

True. And speaking of schools, the Air Force is great at helping you earn college credits and work toward a degree. They orient every job in the service to a civilian equivalent and will get you credits for a lot of the training you do. After the pipeline which is like two years, you very well may come out with a CCAF degree (Flack would know better than I). Just food for thought.......

**CSAR** · 05-16-2007, 03:42 AM

Originally Posted by JDawg1536

Im not sure what you mean when you say they would be an E-3. I have heard of people losing rank crossing over, but more often than not they wont. I know a Marine that lost 1 stripe (E-7 to E-6), and another who went from E-4 to E-3, but I know many more that have kept rank.

You're talking about guys who crossed over from the Marines into the Navy. They are both in the ***artment of the Navy. In this situation, they lose one pay grade. You cannot cross over from the ***artment of the Navy into the ***artment of the Air Force or the ***artment of the Army in the same way. Our LPO for BUD/S class 211 was a gunnery sergeant (E-7) in the Marines, but he lost a paygrade and became a boatswains mate first class (BM1, E-6) upon crossing over. Without exception all the guys who were former Army Rangers were E-5s and above in the Army, but when they enlisted in the Navy, they could only enlist as an E-3. The Navy doesn't allow Army or Air Force personnel to cross over. Maybe it changed? I don't know.

With CCTs being mission vital and thus, in high demand, I can understand why they are a necessity. CCT is something the Navy doesn't have and has to rely on the AF to provide. However, let's say a SEAL who's a gunner's mate (GM), decides he'd rather be a medic (HM). At best, he can run a chit up the chain of command. At worst, he just needs to wait until his current enlistment is up and re-enlist with HM "A" School and 18 Delta being guaranteed in his new enlistment contract. Plus, the enlistment bonuses for SEALs would be ridiculous - last I heard they were $50,000 and up. So, why would he enlist in the AF to become a PJ?

When I was at BUD/S, they told us that Hellweek was just a speedbump and that we'd be colder, wetter, and more miserable in the Teams. I didn't think I could get any colder than Hellweek, but sure enough one week later we were freezing our nuts off during hydrographic reconnaisance and although we weren't as sleep ***rived as Hellweek, 3-4 hours of sleep per night for two weeks straight wasn't much fun either. I could understand why some guys might say "**** this" once their enlistment as a SEAL is up. Not any knock against CCTs or PJs, but I'm wondering how their post CCT/PJ school training compares with that of a SEAL Team.

It costs the Navy $250,000 for a single BUD/S graduate. A conservative estimate of the same amount to then put that BUD/S graduate through SQT would be another $250,000. After that, it costs the Navy $1,000,000 per year for each active duty SEAL. I'm sure the Navy would be pretty pissed off with SEALs leaving the service and then enlisting in the Air Force to be a CCT or PJ.

So, I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but rather that to me, it doesn't make a lot of sense.

**Flack** · 05-23-2007, 12:30 AM

It may not make alot of sense however i did meet them.

**max2extreme** · 05-23-2007, 05:40 AM

you look into combat controllers or pj??

**max2extreme** · 05-23-2007, 05:46 AM

Originally Posted by CSAR

What I will totally agree with is the treatment the AF affords its personnel. I was always amazed at the facilities available on an AF base compared with those of the Army and Navy. The AF is a model for how military personnel should live.

It's funny. Im prior AF and totally agree, but you have an AF guy and any other service talking, and the AF guy is getting ragged on for being in the 'chair force'... My comeback was always "hey, you wanna go to the golf course on the AF base and hit some balls?" hehe. then id say "oh, which of the 2 courses on the AF base do you wanna play?" hah.

**goodcents** · 05-23-2007, 09:08 AM

Originally Posted by CSAR

I'm not sure about this. While it is possible, it would not be a smart move. To my knowledge, a Navy SEAL HM (corpsman) and a PJ go through the Army's 18 Delta school for combat medicine, which is what Army Special Forces medics also go through.

After graduating from BUD/S and SQT, SEALs must serve a minimum of 6 years. If they decided not to re-enlist at the end of their 6-year stint, the average SEAL is going to be E-5 or greater in rank. If a SEAL then decided to enlist in the Air Force to become a PJ, they'd be able to enter as an E-3 and not at their Naval rank. Why would someone give up two pay grades to do this? If they really wanted to be an HM, they can run a request up their chain of command. The Navy doesn't have to honor their request, but with the need for SEAL HM's, they'd seriously take everything into consideration before making a final decision. The lack of SEAL HM's is the reason why PJ's are often attached to SEAL units. The 18 Delta combat medicine course is one of the most technically difficult courses within the military. I heard that the final test is keeping a gut-shot animal (usually a goat or sheep) alive for 24 hours, but not sure about that.What I will totally agree with is the treatment the AF affords its personnel. I was always amazed at the facilities available on an AF base compared with those of the Army and Navy. The AF is a model for how military personnel should live.

I can chime in here, my cousin is an army medic in (north or south?) carolina and he said they blow a goats leg off and then you treat it. I barely believed him but a lady at my store just got done with her service as a medic and she varified it too

He has been to korea (dmz) and just got back from iraq. Ps he has 4 little kids and I think it's fuked up why he stays in when he keeps talking about being a medic on the outside

My cousin is a serganent and trains other medics, that's about all I know except at family reunions and 3rd party

No disrespect to anyone that has served but I think my cousin needs to get his ass out and raise his kids before some piece of shlt shoots him in some bigger piece of shlt desert

**goodcents** · 05-23-2007, 09:15 AM

I know my cousin gets xyz amount more each month if he does xyz jumps? We were close as kids but now he lives in carolina, doesn't believe in tv's and I hear he's starting to do weird shlt so who knows?

**DNoMac** · 05-23-2007, 11:51 AM

Go AF and try out for TACP, CCT, or pararescue. Do your enlistment, get out and find a job with a civilian contractor such as Blackwater making at least 3x your active duty salary without the bureacratic bullshit of the military. It's a shame the military is so underpaid compared to their civilian counterparts. When I was serving overseas, the HUMVEE mechanics were making 6 figures easily. My brother told me the civilians who worked on predators in Iraq were also making well over 6 figures. He gets out in a few months and has already began applying for civilian contractor positions.

Just a thought. By the time you finish your enlistment, we'll probably be out of Iraq. Who knows though, maybe we'll be in Iran!

**Superhuman** · 05-23-2007, 02:53 PM

I'm going Air Force Combat Controller and so far it seems like the best decision I will have made in my life so far

**CSAR** · 05-23-2007, 11:02 PM

Originally Posted by Superhuman

I'm going Air Force Combat Controller and so far it seems like the best decision I will have made in my life so far

Dude, you're looking pretty swole! I guess when you get attached to a SEAL platoon, they won't need an anchor for the RHIB.

Good luck to you 'bro!!

Originally Posted by max2extreme

It's funny. Im prior AF and totally agree, but you have an AF guy and any other service talking, and the AF guy is getting ragged on for being in the 'chair force'... My comeback was always "hey, you wanna go to the golf course on the AF base and hit some balls?" hehe. then id say "oh, which of the 2 courses on the AF base do you wanna play?" hah.

Yep, I've seen that happen many times. AF bases are sweet and the women are sooooo much hotter than the other services. Navy women are not nice; neither in looks nor temperment. Speaking of interservice rivalry - we had a running joke that went "Navy says 'Hoo-Yah', Army says 'Hoo-ah', Marines say 'Hoo-Rah', and Air Force says "Who-What?"