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02-14-2008, 08:55 AM #41
i have never been there but i can imagine it is diverse, but not like America, America is the dream country to go to for poor immigrants, we probably have a citizen from every country in the world living here
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02-14-2008, 09:23 AM #42
You may want to be a little more travelled before making such statements... the US is no different from most other CIVILIZED countries in welcoming immigrants from all over the world.
Honestly if you took a walk in Paris, London, Toronto or New-York other than the different architecture (and obviously the language), you would not know the difference. It's the same people from all over the planet.
Red
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02-14-2008, 10:15 AM #43
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02-14-2008, 10:28 AM #44
You aren't getting the point. England speaks English because it was once a nation of pure race as well. It doesn't matter if it has other types of people in it because it is still ENGLAND. If I go to another nation I will speak their language or make my best attempt at learning their culture, rather then forcing mine down their throats in their own nation.
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02-14-2008, 12:52 PM #45
i grew up a white guy in a small town in canada, where literally everyone was white and spoke english. i considered it a privilege to move to a larger city with many languages, cultures, and especially foods. i speak 3 languages (english, french, danish) fluently and one language half-ass (german). maybe i'm not typical for canada (or north america) but i don't see the issue in a culturally diverse country. i have never once been denied service in english or felt bad for asking in english. damn, i couldn't live without the odd meal at an indian, thai, or japanese place (and i get to order at all of them in english)
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02-14-2008, 01:18 PM #46
I see many people taking this the wrong way!
This is not about race, damn people would you stop going with the flow with that BS methodology.
A nations identity and soverignty are based on Currency and Language, those wishing to live in another nation must accept the fact that they are required to assimilate into that nations culture. Not the other way around.
America has it ass backwards, illegals and immigrants come here and they do not assimilate (Latin & Asians are the worst). Instead they want America to cater to them and change for them, but of course all the while receiving benifits as an American.
Some of the most adaptable immigrants have been Europeans, they assimilate and accept and love our country. Others want the benefits of an American but have no more loyalty to our country than I have to the dump I just dropped in the head.***No source checks!!!***
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02-14-2008, 02:24 PM #47
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02-14-2008, 03:01 PM #48
Yes, I was more or less speaking in generality and you are not wrong and I agree.
I guess I should say that in the past, Europeans assimilated much easier and accepted the American way of life and language. I think America's blatant catering to foreignors has caused most immigrants to not even try to assimilate, they expect America to cater to them (and it does).***No source checks!!!***
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02-14-2008, 06:41 PM #49
No, you arent geting the point!
England was never a country of "pure race" as you like to call it.
The only "pure race" that was a part of England were a group of settlers know known as Cornish.
These were a part of the Cetic race and like the other 3 Celtic varient races they had their own language.
When the romans invaded England the language was watered down and now what is considered to be English is what you and i are speaking.
If you travel far north to the Scotish outer Hebridies, you will hear Scotish still spoken. Cornish is still spoken between some 3000-3500 people in the south west point of England (Cornwall).
If you travel to Mid and North Wales you will hear Welsh spoken very widely. If you travel to the West coast of Ireland you will hear Gaelic being spoken more than you will on the East coast, all of these areas are large and remote and by no means vastly builtup.
My point being that once you introduce a new language to a country it has a chance of taking over.
English people are complaing of migrants speaking their native tongue and wanting "equal rights" (signage, menu's, instructions, foods etc).
Anyone complaing of the same thing in the USA has no argument as you all seem to have forgotten your own cultures and values af far as speaking your native language is concered.Last edited by Odpierdol_sie!; 02-14-2008 at 06:45 PM.
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02-14-2008, 07:15 PM #50
Russian is not a European language. I would assume your confusion arises from language spoken by a constituent of a country that has recently been accepted as an EU state.
The UK is the worst performing country in the EU for Diversity when it comes to languages. All other countries in the Old Europe have a very high capibility when it comes to Speaking other Languages. All the old countries have a high fluency of English but in Austria and Poland you will go further if you can speak German, in Switzerland you will be ok with French but must have a high speaking capability as there are some 25+ dialects of French spoken there. Any of the others you are ok with English
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02-14-2008, 07:38 PM #51
I said and other European languages. Not just Russian. Have you ever been to New York City or Brooklyn? Try going to an Hassidic Jewish neighborhood and asking someone a question. Or an Italian neighborhood. There are people who move to those neighborhoods and never learn English. They work, live, eat, shop and never leave so they don't have to learn English. Do I have a problem with it? No, not really. I just avoid going to places where I can't communicate with people.
Muscle Asylum Project Athlete
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02-14-2008, 07:53 PM #52
I know you did, It was the way you suggested that made me assume you were implying Russian is an European language.
Funny enough you ask, i was going to say that when i was 17 i was on a school trip to NYC. With the first impression, I was very over come by how Hispanic it felt.
I can agree with your tendacy to avoid such areas, it happens here with the Asian comunities (indian, pakistan etc). Problem is when those communities spread, the people act like they dont need to fit in and speak English to get by. Its not their fault as much as it is yours. Its the whole package of how the general community has allowed it to go unnoticed for so long. Burying your head in the sand and forgetting about it is not answer to what appears to be an ever increasing problem.
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02-14-2008, 08:10 PM #53
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02-14-2008, 08:24 PM #54
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02-14-2008, 08:31 PM #55
I do believe it is a problem, we have to try to avoid the "ghettoizing" of certain areas of major metropolitans. Right now there are no laws obliging new immigrants to not got to major metropolitans but there are incentives for immigrants going to traditional French cities. These ghettos have no incentive to integrate general society when they can form their own mini-community within the general community. Who can blame them, they have the green light basically. Perhaps it is time to start using laws
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02-14-2008, 08:54 PM #56
Perhaps, the biggest thing in the USA's favour is the sheer size of the land.
I dont want to harp on about the UK all the time but its a classic example, and i see it set to blow sooner than the US.
Use Northern Ireland for an example.
If Northern Ireland is anything to go by there will be blood on the Streets at some point in the future regardless who is in power. Be it down to the radical racist views of BNP or the overly accepting attitude of Labour.
Northern Ireland was religion based dispute, the same as the majority of this will be. In Northern Ireland everybody involved in the conflict was the same skin colour (white) the difference being in this instant is what the other religion in the UK are disinguishable by.
You can say it has nothing to do with religion or skin colour but at the end of the day a confilct needs a catalys. With this kind of dispute will only require a small ammount of radicals to take it out on an innocent group just because of the colour of their skin then the whole of that community is put in to the same group as the other religon ending in black v white.
Even more so these days as there are a very high ammount of Eastern Europeans in the UK, some of whomb have racist views and are white catholics (whos side are these going to be on?).
If the UK was a huge nation then i would say it is not a problem, but it not, its tiny and the precentages of race dictate what happens.
Nothern Ireland, in conflict 34% catholic, 31% Protestant, 36% Neutral.
UK 5% Muslim, 69% Christian, 26% Other/no religion
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02-15-2008, 12:03 AM #57Senior Member
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02-15-2008, 12:37 AM #58Member
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See I think what people are doing is taking this the wrong way. You would still get service everywhere u go in english, but at certain places you may also get another language there option there. Like at the bank machine or an automated answering service.
But say u did venture into one of these neighbourhoods or u had to every now and then and say you were looking for a gas station or something else, healthfood store, gym (something with a keyword) and some dude directed u with broken english, and it took u a min. to understand. That he was sayin 2 blocks down and make a left. Would that piss u off? Or would you be like cool i found what i needed?
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02-15-2008, 05:47 AM #59
It does not bother me when people speak broken English. I'll give you of an example of what bothers me. I speak Spanish, but not perfectly. I have gone into a store and spoke to the staff in Spanish and made a mistake. Then had the staff stand there, laugh, and make fun of me. I asked the guy in Spanish do you speak English? He said no. I said how long have you lived here? He said 5 years. Now THAT annoys me. Don't make fun of me because I made a mistake in a language that is not native here when you've been here 5 years and haven't attempted to learn the local language. Do I think they should learn the local language? Yes, they should. They're limiting themselves to a 10-20 block radius by not doing so.
Having to press 1 for English or 2 for Spanish doesn't bother me. Since there are less Spanish speakers the call volume is usually lower and you get an operator faster. So if I'm in a hurry, I press 2. The operator answers in Spanish, I respond in English.Muscle Asylum Project Athlete
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02-15-2008, 06:21 AM #60
Nothing wrong with trying to speak. It annoys me too.
If you have been in a country long enough to have learned to speak in broken (whatever) then you have had more than enough time to try and learn some of the language. Some people are sheer ignorant and will do the littlest possible. The ones at falut are the people who allow it to go on, afterall why learn a language if you dont need to?
In any country where the first language is not English you would have to learn the local tongue or atleast be proficient enough to ask for what you need to survive.
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02-15-2008, 08:31 AM #61
ok, I kept holding back on this thread... but i can't anymore. so to those who think it is only fair that one language when going to atm or whatever on the phone... I live in a part that was taken over and sold to the U.S. but was originally part of Mexico. Many settlements that originally were not English speaking or anything like that all over my state... going with the same spin the original post was reffering to and in fairness to a lot of those people, why is it required for them to learn and speak a different language through oppression? They can say the exact same thing the orginal poster does not like...although I never heard anything like that beings said... just food for thought.
Actually I only speak english... who knows how many generations we have been in this area for, but spanish or any other language..big deal. go on to the next prompt on the phone and be glad that you are living in a diverse country, that to an extent, embraces changes and allows you to be who you are. As far as paying taxes and all that... whoever is dodging that is a bunch of bull. or patriotism displayed in america for another country gets me going... but a phone prompt or stuff like that, a good thing imo.
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02-15-2008, 09:22 AM #62
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02-15-2008, 11:01 AM #63
Again Carlos it us that have made the social environment so accommodating that one doesn't have to learn the local language. Why should they. Thats what I mean by ghettoizing. If Im a, for example, 38 year old Italian why would I bother to learn English. Id just move into little Italy in NY and do everything there. Make them live in .....Albany, NY and he will have no choice to integrate general society .
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02-15-2008, 02:38 PM #64
Too right. Its human nature to do the least possible. If people allow you to why not just go along with it.
I know i would, i dont balme those people at all.
From another perspective (me on teh outside looking in), what happens when its gets to a point where it is beyond of an acceptable level.
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02-15-2008, 02:49 PM #65
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02-15-2008, 03:03 PM #66
Where did the Polish come from? lol
It is a question of tolerence really, but its also a rhetorical question.
I see the tolerence level in the Uk really being pushed, but that is just down to the size of our Nation. In american i can see where it will end up... people are alrady talking about it (as we are) so its obviously in issue already. You guys will take alot longer to get to the stage we are at now. Here I can see it kicking off big time over the next 10-15. You guys, who knows?... you would be better a judge than I.
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02-15-2008, 04:38 PM #67
For me it becomes too much when one creed is going above and beyond of what should be expected. When you get a group of people in a room and bring up this subject and they are not affraid of getting in trouble from voicing their opinions, that is when it has gone too far.
In my line of work you can get fired for voicing opinions... a number of years ago nobody had any problem, yes you had opinions but they are always there. Nowadays i see people grown very bitter and twisted, many to the point of being racist.
I has gone too far as this is a situation i see more and more regular. It was not that long ago where English people had problems with the Irish and Welsh, very seldom you will hear an English person running either down now. But many are sat on the fence as they, like i have lots of friends from different backgrounds creeds and religions.
But then again im not English so why let it bother me...
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02-15-2008, 06:04 PM #68Associate Member
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If you go back to the prevouis post they mentioned it was a "business choice" to add alternative languages as options for some automated systems or atms or whatever it maybe. SAME exact concept is implied when you stated the above. The speak and learn english for " business choices" not cus they love the language... they love the money... they learn it for business.. as should everyone else if you want to EXPAND your business in other countrys.
2. Theres a difference between illegals and immigrants.. so please reference them correctly... For every that says are amercians families "migrated" here so are there for of immigrant descent. Illegals or Illegal immigrants are just that.. Just thought i'd say that since some mentioned it.
3. America has 2 Parts North and South so when you say where Americans are you reffering to north or south. As i can simply say if i was from Brazil, i can say I am american as well since i live in south america. Its just wierd since we call ourselves American yet there is two parts... This is another topic.
4. I agree with everyone paying taxes and keeping the money here so our TRILLION dollar debt can go down (like thats going to happen) but wait where does america borrow there money? Oh FORIEGNERS thats right... maybe thats why the speak ENGLISH so than can make more money off us..
just as a side note if your so pissed cus we have so many languages and businesses are catering to them.. than do something about instead of complaining on a steroid board...sorry guys i had a shitty Vday.
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02-16-2008, 03:35 PM #69
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02-16-2008, 03:51 PM #70
Polish? It was quite an intuitive guess.....I guess. lol
In terms of tolerance do you think it is immigrants in general that have "changed" or perhaps that the number of immigrants has risen such that the issues, that were always there to begin with, have just become explicitly obvious?
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02-16-2008, 07:21 PM #71
lol Nah im not Polish, but I know a little. Tried to learn a bit a while back... still remember the odd word lol :P
Yeah i think its the fact that once you increase the ratio of people you upset the balance everyone else (locals) are use to.
No matter where you want to live in the world it will be a change to what you are use to, if you dont want to fit in then you will make changes to the place you now live. if enough people are doing the same then its gonna change things to the point its pissing off the locals.
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02-18-2008, 01:35 AM #72Junior Member
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02-18-2008, 07:28 AM #73
?? why officer? I have done no wrong here.j/k...
I have no problem telling anyone where I live, but I do want to know why first?
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02-18-2008, 09:05 AM #74Junior Member
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02-18-2008, 09:49 AM #75
Danger,
I am not much of a history buff but pretty much the whole Southwest had settlements that went back several hundred years... native americans and spanish settlements..
1846 Mexican-American War begins.
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02-19-2008, 12:02 PM #76Junior Member
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Oh alright. I thought you meant like...taken over in the past few years.
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02-19-2008, 12:18 PM #77The answer to your every question
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A bigot is a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted
to his or her own opinions and prejudices, especially
one exhibiting intolerance, and animosity toward those of differing beliefs.
If you get scammed by an UGL listed on this board or by another member here, it's all part of the game and learning experience for you,
we do not approve nor support any sources that may be listed on this site.
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Don't Let the Police kick your ass
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02-19-2008, 12:20 PM #78The answer to your every question
Rules
A bigot is a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted
to his or her own opinions and prejudices, especially
one exhibiting intolerance, and animosity toward those of differing beliefs.
If you get scammed by an UGL listed on this board or by another member here, it's all part of the game and learning experience for you,
we do not approve nor support any sources that may be listed on this site.
I will not do source checks for you, the peer review from other members should be enough to help you make a decision on your quest. Buyer beware.
Don't Let the Police kick your ass
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02-19-2008, 12:23 PM #79
by the way, i am French Canadian / native American decent..
and i was raised in the south..
I preferred to be called "Masta"
see how ridiculous this can become.
If the gov wanted the illegals out, they would make entering the country a felony, then all other laws would be enforced, and they would be sent home..
easy solution..The answer to your every question
Rules
A bigot is a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted
to his or her own opinions and prejudices, especially
one exhibiting intolerance, and animosity toward those of differing beliefs.
If you get scammed by an UGL listed on this board or by another member here, it's all part of the game and learning experience for you,
we do not approve nor support any sources that may be listed on this site.
I will not do source checks for you, the peer review from other members should be enough to help you make a decision on your quest. Buyer beware.
Don't Let the Police kick your ass
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02-19-2008, 12:29 PM #80
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