Doctor Offering Gender Changing Hormone Treatment To Children

[NATE0406]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,356592,00.html

this shit is sick imo..

[spywizard]

Wait a minute.. aren't we suppose to support everyone's personal choice??

I mean this is just another step down the same path.

discuss..

[Amorphic]

the success rate for sex changes in youth is very low. psychologically the brain is born in its gender, no amount of hormones can change this basic functioning.

suicide rates, depression and the like are extremely common in these situations

[Tock]

Opinions vary on this sort of thing.

Few people understand why a person would want to change their gender, just like few people understand why a person would want to add 100 or 200 lbs of muscle to their body.

We all need other folks to cut us some slack from time to time. How about cutting some for transgender people?

[NATE0406]

i understand if you are an adult and want this type of treatment but how does a small child really know??

[Lemonada8]

Wait a minute.. aren't we suppose to support everyone's personal choice??

I mean this is just another step down the same path.

discuss..

yeah so the people who are avocating for other people to be tolerant of them are hypocrites because they arent tolerating the people who dont tolerate them...

i understand if you are an adult and want this type of treatment but how does a small child really know??

and personaly when does one know when they know what they want? 18? 21? 8? 13? its different in every culture... hell 100 years ago a 15 y/o mom wasnt uncommon, and now its a 'horrible' thing.... *not avocating 15 y/o moms just making a point*
IMHO if you truely want a sex change, get one just dont start complaining and blaming other people for your life's misfortunes... its your life, do what you please as long as you dont infringe on other peoples rights...

[NATE0406]

yeah so the people who are avocating for other people to be tolerant of them are hypocrites because they arent tolerating the people who dont tolerate them...





and personaly when does one know when they know what they want? 18? 21? 8? 13? its different in every culture... hell 100 years ago a 15 y/o mom wasnt uncommon, and now its a 'horrible' thing.... *not avocating 15 y/o moms just making a point*
IMHO if you truely want a sex change, get one just dont start complaining and blaming other people for your life's misfortunes... its your life, do what you please as long as you dont infringe on other peoples rights...

yes but a 7 year old doesnt know what the hell they want. you cant leave it up to a small child to make decisions like this. if it is something that they truly want then it should be somthing that the child decide when they have a proper understanding of what they are doing. by you rasional we mite as well allow kids to drink and smoke as well. its there life rite?? no they dont have the knowlege to make a well informed decision.

[Lemonada8]

true... but smoking and drinking are minorities to a sex change... a sex change is a life decision... but i cant say any more cause well i am not informed enough about the topic, and havent gone through it, nor do i have anybody i know go through that so i cant be for or against it...

[DSM4Life]

yes but a 7 year old doesnt know what the hell they want. you cant leave it up to a small child to make decisions like this. if it is something that they truly want then it should be somthing that the child decide when they have a proper understanding of what they are doing. by you rasional we mite as well allow kids to drink and smoke as well. its there life rite?? no they dont have the knowlege to make a well informed decision.

I understand where you are coming from but who decides when the child is ready ?

[NATE0406]

I understand where you are coming from but who decides when the child is ready ?

very true thats why it is something that i think shouldnt be decided untill the child is capable of making that decision.

[DSM4Life]

very true thats why it is something that i think shouldnt be decided untill the child is capable of making that decision.

But who decides/approves when the child is finally capable of making this kind of decision ?

[spywizard]

I would assume you have not used ***** (hard drug) so you don't have an opinion on that either?? not picking on you, just keeping the conversation going..

true... but smoking and drinking are minorities to a sex change... a sex change is a life decision... but i cant say any more cause well i am not informed enough about the topic, and havent gone through it, nor do i have anybody i know go through that so i cant be for or against it...

[Tock]

i understand if you are an adult and want this type of treatment but how does a small child really know??

Gender identity is one of those things that if you really really really know that you're other than what your sex organs say you are, well, then you're pretty much ready for an operation.

Imagine yourself waking up this morning with a body of a woman. After you've had your fun, then what do you do? You know deep down inside that you are really a male, and that something bizarre happened to you, and you'll most likely want your male body back. Transgender people feel the same thing. Every morning when they wake up, they wonder WTF they're doing with a body of the wrong sex. They go on like this for years and years, often they endure this gnawing feeling all their life. But, thanks to modern surgery and drugs, sex change operations can releive them of this constant problem, and give them the body they have honestly and strongly thought rightly belonged to them.


Before a doctor will do a sex change operation on a patient, the patient has to go through a lot of psychological counseling and evaluation, and then the shrink has to give the ok. It's not like surgeons do this sort of thing willy-nilly on anyone who knocks on their door, like a dentist filling a cavity.

It's not like people are having their sex changed against their will, and nobody is saying that you have to have one, so what's the problem?

[DSM4Life]

Gender identity is one of those things that if you really really really know that you're other than what your sex organs say you are, well, then you're pretty much ready for an operation.

Imagine yourself waking up this morning with a body of a woman. After you've had your fun, then what do you do? You know deep down inside that you are really a male, and that something bizarre happened to you, and you'll most likely want your male body back. Transgender people feel the same thing. Every morning when they wake up, they wonder WTF they're doing with a body of the wrong sex. They go on like this for years and years, often they endure this gnawing feeling all their life. But, thanks to modern surgery and drugs, sex change operations can releive them of this constant problem, and give them the body they have honestly and strongly thought rightly belonged to them.


Before a doctor will do a sex change operation on a patient, the patient has to go through a lot of psychological counseling and evaluation, and then the shrink has to give the ok. It's not like surgeons do this sort of thing willy-nilly on anyone who knocks on their door, like a dentist filling a cavity.

It's not like people are having their sex changed against their will, and nobody is saying that you have to have one, so what's the problem?

I read somewhere that some of these programs require the patient to live as the opposite sex for 10 months (dress/act) before they are even eligible for the operation.

[Tock]

I read somewhere that some of these programs require the patient to live as the opposite sex for 10 months (dress/act) before they are even eligible for the operation.

Ya . . . I've known a couple of transgenders . . . it's a long process before they start cutting on ya . . .

[xlxBigSexyxlx]

Do what they will

Just don't bother me, and Im fine

[Tock]

the success rate for sex changes in youth is very low.

Where did you find this bit of information? Got a source?

suicide rates, depression and the like are extremely common in these situations

Most people have the attitude towards sex-changes that the original poster has. Suicide and depression of candidates for sex change are fostered by a public that is both ignorant and hostile to their situation.

I say, cut 'em some slack.

[Amorphic]

Where did you find this bit of information? Got a source?








Most people have the attitude towards sex-changes that the original poster has. Suicide and depression of candidates for sex change are fostered by a public that is both ignorant and hostile to their situation.

I say, cut 'em some slack.

we learned about it in developmental psychology last semester. the instance where a boy had a botched circumsision and the parents decided to change his gender to female from birth.

he was a girl in everyone elses eyes but his entire life he knew something was wrong. eventually his parents told him the truth and he changed back to a man. he married and adopted children but later committed suicide.

[Dizz28]

I think "kids as young as 7" is too young, although I don't have any idea what age might be considered appropriate. As I understand, one of the major requirements for an operation is a thurough psychiatric eval to see if there are any other underlying mental illnesses causing this want to change identities. Adolescents are difficult, if not impossible, to get a correct diagnosis.They haven't mentally or emotionally matured enough.

[Tock]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amorphic
the success rate for sex changes in youth is very low.

[Tock wrote:] Where did you find this bit of information? Got a source?

we learned about it in developmental psychology last semester. the instance where a boy had a botched circumsision and the parents decided to change his gender to female from birth.

he was a girl in everyone elses eyes but his entire life he knew something was wrong. eventually his parents told him the truth and he changed back to a man. he married and adopted children but later committed suicide.

Well, that's not really a transsexual who wanted to make the change; it's just something done to him in infancy. I don't think that really counts in statistics concerning transsexuals volunteering for the operation . . .

[Tock]

I think "kids as young as 7" is too young, although I don't have any idea what age might be considered appropriate.

I'm inclined to agree . . . but only because I don't really know much about these things, in which case I defer to "the experts" who take things on a case-by-case basis.

[kfrost06]

Gender identity is one of those things that if you really really really know that you're other than what your sex organs say you are, well, then you're pretty much ready for an operation.

Imagine yourself waking up this morning with a body of a woman. After you've had your fun, then what do you do? You know deep down inside that you are really a male, and that something bizarre happened to you, and you'll most likely want your male body back. Transgender people feel the same thing. Every morning when they wake up, they wonder WTF they're doing with a body of the wrong sex. They go on like this for years and years, often they endure this gnawing feeling all their life. But, thanks to modern surgery and drugs, sex change operations can releive them of this constant problem, and give them the body they have honestly and strongly thought rightly belonged to them.


Before a doctor will do a sex change operation on a patient, the patient has to go through a lot of psychological counseling and evaluation, and then the shrink has to give the ok. It's not like surgeons do this sort of thing willy-nilly on anyone who knocks on their door, like a dentist filling a cavity.

It's not like people are having their sex changed against their will, and nobody is saying that you have to have one, so what's the problem?

So let me get this right, if your under 18 and really really really want a tattoo, your too young, if you want to drink, vote, drive, sign a contract, buy cigarettes, drop out of school, join the army, etc etc etc too young but if you want an abortion or a sex change thats o.k.???

Tock your views are too far out there but evidently there are a lot of politicians and activist judges ready to cater to your every need.

[DSM4Life]

Oh look, Kfrost again going after tock

You remind me of logan.

[Tock]

So let me get this right, if your under 18 and really really really want a tattoo, your too young, if you want to drink, vote, drive, sign a contract, buy cigarettes, drop out of school, join the army, etc etc etc too young but if you want an abortion or a sex change thats o.k.???

Tock your views are too far out there but evidently there are a lot of politicians and activist judges ready to cater to your every need.

A sex change is something you do after consultation with several doctors over a considerable length of time. None of the other things you mentioned do not involve medical advice, examination, or treatment. That's the difference.

[kfrost06]

oh he likes it

[kfrost06]

A sex change is something you do after consultation with several doctors over a considerable length of time. None of the other things you mentioned do not involve medical advice, examination, or treatment. That's the difference.

the issue is still the same, can a kid make a mature life changing desicion?

[kfrost06]

Oh look, Kfrost again going after tock

You remind me of logan.

it's actually been awhile since Tock and I had an exchange, Carlos has been taking all my time lately. Either way it's fun and Tock likes it.

[DSM4Life]

it's actually been awhile since Tock and I had an exchange, Carlos has been taking all my time lately. Either way it's fun and Tock likes it.

At least you balance it out among members

[Tock]

the issue is still the same, can a kid make a mature life changing desicion?

If the kid voices distress, and if medical experts recommend a sex change, and if the parents approve, then sure, why not?

I wouldn't leave the choice to just the kid alone, though. I hope that makes you happy . . .

[Tock]

oh he likes it

Kfrost and I like to play together . . .

[spywizard]

A sex change is something you do after consultation with several doctors over a considerable length of time. None of the other things you mentioned do not involve medical advice, examination, or treatment. That's the difference.

I suppose medical insurance programs should cover this as well. Or should the parents be forced to pay for it and if they don't it is child neglect??

just thinking out loud..

[qualityclrk1]

envision your daughter coming up to you tomorow and saying she wants to change into a boy....she says she thinks shes a boy anyway, so lets give her a penis......

wtf guys.....7 years old kids still want to be a dinosaur and argue about if they're the cop or robber......

[Lemonada8]

I would assume you have not used ***** (hard drug) so you don't have an opinion on that either?? not picking on you, just keeping the conversation going..

i have not used that but i have had friends who have used it, and i have known what they were going through, therefore i can have a opinion on that also...

i have had experience with people and drugs,

i have had experience on teenage pregnancys (the how do you know your old enough statement earlier)

i havent had any experience with anybody going through a sex change operation.... i just dont know any, nore does anybody i know does either... so have 0 contact with that sort of problem... and ihavent educated myself on the situation by researching it on the interent and books and talking about it with other people... so i cannot be a part of that decision, and since i'm sorta of a optimistic-taoist person, if you really need it go with it if you really need it...

[kfrost06]

Kfrost and I like to play together . . .

yes we do :


COUGH COUGH


I mean yes but like this

[Lemonada8]

A sex change is something you do after consultation with several doctors over a considerable length of time. None of the other things you mentioned do not involve medical advice, examination, or treatment. That's the difference.

true, but for a concept to try before a sex change to see if they really need it, is psycho therapy? where tehy have to go to a therapist and such, to work on their mind, and if they can be happy in their own body?

go sigmund and freud on them!!!

[Johnny_Rotten]

Hmmm.

Very complex debate here, there are a few questions i would like to ask you who endorse (or seem to) this.

What would you do if you're 6 or 7 year old son insisted he wanted to be a girl, he was born a gal etc. Then he gets the operation & later when he matures, say at age 18 he becomes really depressed because he was just a child & didn't really understand what was happening etc?

When i was younger i used to think Transgender was wrong, as i've grown older i've realized that i really don't know what the f#ck to think, so i really try avoid the subject as there are valid arguments to both sides.

However in my opinion there needs to be an age set when this operation can take place & we need to stick to it.

Kids want to do alot of things (& yes i know changing gender is different to not knowing if they want the new superman or batman figurine,) however at the end of the day they're still children & it's up to us as adults, etc to govern them UNTIL they reach an age (where we deem it) appropriate to be able to make decisions like the aforementioned one.

This is just my opinion.

What do some of you other guys think?

[NATE0406]

Hmmm.

Very complex debate here, there are a few questions i would like to ask you who endorse (or seem to) this.

What would you do if you're 6 or 7 year old son insisted he wanted to be a girl, he was born a gal etc. Then he gets the operation & later when he matures, say at age 18 he becomes really depressed because he was just a child & didn't really understand what was happening etc?

When i was younger i used to think Transgender was wrong, as i've grown older i've realized that i really don't know what the f#ck to think, so i really try avoid the subject as there are valid arguments to both sides.

However in my opinion there needs to be an age set when this operation can take place & we need to stick to it.

Kids want to do alot of things (& yes i know changing gender is different to not knowing if they want the new superman or batman figurine,) however at the end of the day they're still children & it's up to us as adults, etc to govern them UNTIL they reach an age (where we deem it) appropriate to be able to make decisions like the aforementioned one.

This is just my opinion.

What do some of you other guys think?

spot on..imo

[FallenWyvern]

I don't care about this if it doesn't affect me. To each their own.

Who pays for this? If out of the parents pocket, I would say go for it. If it is insurance, then I really do care. Insurance costs affect me. I would hate to think my insurance premiums would be higher because of this.

[Tock]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tock
Kfrost and I like to play together . . .

yes we do :

COUGH COUGH

I mean yes but like this

Yes, we love to hammer each other . . .

[Tock]

What would you do if you're 6 or 7 year old son insisted he wanted to be a girl, he was born a gal etc. Then he gets the operation & later when he matures, say at age 18 he becomes really depressed because he was just a child & didn't really understand what was happening etc?

I don't know the specifics of the process, but I would expect that psychological counseling would identify people who were not ready for sex-change surgery. Among other requirements, they're required to live as the opposite gender for an entire year or longer. Could a pre-adolescent improperly trick a counselor into thinking that he was ready for surgery? I doubt it.

However in my opinion there needs to be an age set when this operation can take place & we need to stick to it.

I'd prefer to keep politicians out of the specifics of medical issues, and give medical experts freedom to diagnose and treat troubled people in need of sex-change therapy.
Should the AMA and the APA set reasonable standards and procedures? Sure, why not?