Blackwater?

[breacherup]

I have worked for a couple of different private companies in Iraq and Afghanistan, never for Blackwater but in the same areas on several occasions.Therefore my opinion, while still just an opinion, is NOT based on something my brother, my best friend or my neighbor's cousin told me.
The people from Blackwater that I met and observed were US military veterans with years of experience, not bouncers or psychos and they were not "playing war".
To the best of my knowledge they have never lost a principal(person under their protection) to enemy fire or explosion.
That is a record that neither the U.S.Secret Service or Israeli Shabak/Shin Bet can claim.
It seems that a great many people have opinions on this subject, and I am all for free expression of one's opinions, but if someone without any cycles under their belt recomended a cutting stack would anyone hesitate to point out their lack of first hand knowledge? (and if their reply began with "my brother says" they'd be laughed out of the forum)

[southmadejd]

^^ Agreed bro. I never understood someone believing so heavily in second hand information. The ex bouncers comment was my favorite.

[Panzerfaust]

Clearly you have not taken the time to educate yourself about exactly what Blackwater does/has done because each statement you made 100% inaccurate.

Unchecked? That's funny...maybe you should take the time to read the laws that state PMFs (such as Blackwater) operate by the same ROE as the military and are subject to military tribunals. That is all stated above...

And that they are protecting you each night from having a nuke dropped on your head.

They run security for MUCH more than diplomats and military bases. A simple Google search will prove a foolish statement like that false.

Please take the time to truly educate yourself on said subject before sharing your opinion...

Ok, so some soldiers I know personally sat there and told me all about Blackwater. How one day they had a Blackwater guy with them in a convoy. Some car was following to closely, the Blackwater guy freaks out, gets out and machine guns the goddamn car and laughs and gets back in.

Don't even ****ing try to tell me shit...

[RangersLTW]

I missed alot I see, yet again. Thanks to all the ppl that responded to this thread with good advice. Out of all do respect to the others, if you really do not know the answer, then why do you post. There are alot of soldiers on here that have went to Iraq and worked along side of blackwater, so that is why I posted this thread in here. I am going to school to a paramedic then bridge over to be a nurse. I want to join a Blackwater because they have the Wounded Warrior Project. So that means I can aquire some training, like search and rescue medic and some tactical combat casualty care.

Also, I have already had alot of other training since I got out of the service, so no comments on joining a swat team. I have already played the game of being over trained and under paid. Thanks again to all the reasonable post again. I can get good advice on here, thats why I like this forum, but I would personally perfer not to post on a matter that I do not have any experience in the matter.

[breacherup]

Ok, so some soldiers I know personally sat there and told me all about Blackwater. How one day they had a Blackwater guy with them in a convoy. Some car was following to closely, the Blackwater guy freaks out, gets out and machine guns the goddamn car and laughs and gets back in.

Don't even ****ing try to tell me shit...

These soldiers told you "all about Blackwater", would that be everything they know first hand or every rumor they ever heard?
Ok, so there was one "Blackwater guy" working with a group of US Soldiers in a convoy (not likely) and a car was following too closely (happens all the time) so this guy "freaks out, gets out and machine guns the car and laughs and gets back in".
They stopped the convoy?(a big NO NO) Or did he jump from a moving vehicle to fire on the car? Perhaps he climbed from inside the vehicle to the roof and fired his weapon? Sounds like a Bruce Willis script.

But since some soldiers you personally know told you, I'll have to believe every word of it.

[southmadejd]

Ok, so some soldiers I know personally sat there and told me all about Blackwater. How one day they had a Blackwater guy with them in a convoy. Some car was following to closely, the Blackwater guy freaks out, gets out and machine guns the goddamn car and laughs and gets back in.

Don't even ****ing try to tell me shit...

Blackwater has all of their own transportation so I have no idea why he would be riding with "some soldiers". Just seems unlikely at best.

[B.E.N.]

Ok, so there was one "Blackwater guy" working with a group of US Soldiers in a convoy (not likely) and a car was following too closely (happens all the time) so this guy "freaks out, gets out and machine guns the car and laughs and gets back in".
They stopped the convoy?(a big NO NO)

Exactly! First rule when engaged is always attempt to 'push through'. Leaving the vehicle to counter an assault would be maybe 4th on the list.

Besides if a Blackwater employee was (if?) with a US military convoy that vehicle would likely have 50cal on top. They know better than to mess with those.

But since some soldiers you personally know told you, I'll have to believe every word of it.

x2 LOL! Liberal media has done a good job. Kind of scares me come November election.

[B.E.N.]

Blackwater has all of their own transportation so I have no idea why he would be riding with "some soldiers". Just seems unlikely at best.

Yep...insurgents will attack the Blackwater convoys since they typically don't have 50cals or Apache air support ready to drop some Hellfires on them. They are smart knowing who and what to attack!

[RAF3070]

Some of you seem to be blowing beans up BWs arse, they have been involved in numerous incidents in Iraq, and its well known they can be a bit "trigger happy", http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...100701300.html

The ATF as of last month are investigating whether they side stepped federal laws prohibiting the private purchase of automatic assault rifles, BW have bad press in Iraq and its common knowledge, in fact it beggars belief how they got there contract renewed, considering the Iraq goverment wanted them booted out.

If you dont mind me asking breacherup but what company were you with in-country, if you would rather not say then i respect that.

[brewerpi]

Some of you seem to be blowing beans up BWs arse, they have been involved in numerous incidents in Iraq, and its well known they can be a bit "trigger happy", http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...100701300.html

The ATF as of last month are investigating whether they side stepped federal laws prohibiting the private purchase of automatic assault rifles, BW have bad press in Iraq and its common knowledge, in fact it beggars belief how they got there contract renewed, considering the Iraq goverment wanted them booted out.

If you dont mind me asking breacherup but what company were you with in-country, if you would rather not say then i respect that.

I realize you asked this of breacherup, but I have some experience in this area.
I'll err on the side of caution and not say which companies I have worked for. I will say that I have worked for both American and UK based corporations, a large firm as well as what you might call a "boutique" or small firm. I have also worked in the direct employ of the US Department of Defense.
Make no mistake, I am well aware of incidents where Blackwater or other private contractor employees are accused of using force beyond what was called for. I am also aware of countless incidents accusing US and UK troops of the same thing.
If the State Department's Diplomatic Security Service were 5-10 times it's current size and the US Army and Marine Corps were at their cold war troop levels then perhaps Blackwater,Triple Canopy,Dyn Corp,Chilport,Air Scan,Armor Group, MPRI,IPI,MVM,Pilgrim Elite and Redfour would not exist, but some of them existed pre 9/11 and Iraq and most of them will exist after it's over.
There is nothing new to private contractors on the battlefield-President Lincoln hired the Pinkerton Agency to gather intelligence during the Civil War.

[RAF3070]

I think you may have misunderstood my post, I am not saying these companys shouldn`t exist or am calling them cowboys ( far from it as BW pull most there ppl from NSW and SF), I am just commenting on Blackwaters reputation in Iraq as being a little trigger happy. When ppl mention a PMC company, 9 times out of 10 they will think of BW, as, lets face it, are the most reconised, and dare I say, of having a notorious reputation.

My remarks are to ppl who posted on this thread blowing BWs trumpet, when really they need to look a bit more into how they operate.

[B.E.N.]

My remarks are to ppl who posted on this thread blowing BWs trumpet, when really they need to look a bit more into how they operate.

The 'operate' under the same ROE as our military.

A reputation is not always based on fact or truth. You reference a media outlet and liberal one at that. You can't believe 100% of what you read...

I will give you that is BW reputation but, not that is necessarily true.

[brewerpi]

I think you may have misunderstood my post, I am not saying these companys shouldn`t exist or am calling them cowboys ( far from it as BW pull most there ppl from NSW and SF), I am just commenting on Blackwaters reputation in Iraq as being a little trigger happy. When ppl mention a PMC company, 9 times out of 10 they will think of BW, as, lets face it, are the most reconised, and dare I say, of having a notorious reputation.

My remarks are to ppl who posted on this thread blowing BWs trumpet, when really they need to look a bit more into how they operate.

I understand.
As always the truth is more complicated.Somewhere between trigger-happy cowboys and all American heroes are a bunch of guys doing a hard job and yes they make more than an Army private with three months in the service.

In my experience the people who drop by in the aftermath of a firefight and write a story about who was wrong have never made a life or death decision in their lives. Things happen fast, you have a few seconds to decide if that mercedes rapidly closing on your six is packed with explosives and driven by some dude with visions of Allah and virgins or just some knucklehead who hasn't heard that it's not safe to approach a convoy. If you're wrong either way it's tragic.

I know from my own time in Iraq and Afghanistan that the young soldiers and marines assume that everyone working in theater who doesn't wear a uniform must be Blackwater or CIA. They also assume that you're making one thousand a day and eat fresh sushi flown in by private jet every night and that there is a secret brothel full of 21 year old double jointed, hard bodies set up to service the contractors and high ranking officers.
While I never quite made a thousand a day I was well compensated, but I know for certain that the pension and lifetime health care that I earned from my army career will cost the American taxpayer a lot more than what I was paid as a contractor.

[RangersLTW]

Now this is more like it. Some really good info her ppl. Thanks, keep it going. BW does has some dirt under the rug though, I think, did they or did they not rap a female paramedic or was it one got rapped that went over there by someone else?

[RAF3070]

A reputation is not always based on fact or truth. You reference a media outlet and liberal one at that. You can't believe 100% of what you read...

I will give you that is BW reputation but, not that is necessarily true.

No my reference isnt the media, far from it, believe me, its from ppl who are now working there as PMCs, and are as mad as hell the way BW act the way they do, tarnishing the other companys out there.

My link from the Washington Post was posted as one of the worst and latest instances of BWs escapades, this one should have seen them booted out.

B.E.N., I think you should look up a bit more about BWs involvment in Iraq, theres plenty about them on the internet, and dont say all of its BS....

[B.E.N.]

B.E.N., I think you should look up a bit more about BWs involvment in Iraq, theres plenty about them on the internet, and dont say all of its BS....

I have done plenty of reading and talking to people on the ground. Like I said before, my child's GodF is a Spec. Agent on the ground in Iraq. I talk to him almost daily through email or phone.

You just can't make a generalazition like all BW is crap. Just as with any organization there is always someone that is not squared away. For the most part BW employees are professionals that have there shit squared.

I had many a talk to my friend about working for BW. His reasoning is that if you work with BW you are on contract and basically a 1099 employee. You purchase your own Health care.

So I've done plenty to qualify my opinion as informed.

[RAF3070]

Ok, let me get something straight, never have I said BW are crap, as i said in a previous post, they draw lots of guys from NSW and SF, and them guys dont come any better, yes them guys ARE professionals, but do they carry that to BW? BW have a notorious reputation and attitude, I never said they were crap, as far as I understand they have never lost a client under their protection (but dont quote me on that), if your talking crap then i spose that has to go to Hart, but then again, dont quote me on that either.

Some of the ppl I served with are currently working PSD in Iraq and have done for the last 4 to 5 years for a British company, I am well aware of the contract work being done in Iraq.

Also were did you source that BW operate under the same ROE as the US Army, as far as I know BW have there own ROE, or as set by the State Department.

[B.E.N.]

Ok, let me get something straight, never have I said BW are crap, as i said in a previous post, they draw lots of guys from NSW and SF, and them guys dont come any better, yes them guys ARE professionals, but do they carry that to BW? BW have a notorious reputation and attitude, I never said they were crap, as far as I understand they have never lost a client under their protection (but dont quote me on that), if your talking crap then i spose that has to go to Hart, but then again, dont quote me on that either.

Some of the ppl I served with are currently working PSD in Iraq and have done for the last 4 to 5 years for a British company, I am well aware of the contract work being done in Iraq.

Also were did you source that BW operate under the same ROE as the US Army, as far as I know BW have there own ROE, or as set by the State Department.

Understood.

I will have to do more digging to point you directly to the website I read about BW's ROE. I believe it was a summation of the Bill that was passed in Congress and had some info from the DofJ as well.

Speaking with DofD employees as well.

Here is one media article (http://i.abcnews.com/Politics/story?id=3623111&page=1)citing "...rules of engagement that the military set up for private security contractors.", "... rules similar to those that apply to U.S. troops."

From speaking with this DofD employee it seems that the ROE have become very strict since BW hit the news. He basically has 4 steps/criteria before he can fire a live round.

I can't fault a PMF employee, DofD employee, or military personnel for being a little light on the trigger. When insurgents are out to do nothing but kill you from the 1st shot and your ROE consist of 1st firing flash-bangs, I'd be a bit nervous too.

[brewerpi]

Blackwater announced today that it is shifting focus away from security work.

[charliemurphy229]

this blackwater sounds very interesting. any where to find credible information about them.

[brewerpi]

this blackwater sounds very interesting. any where to find credible information about them.

"credible" is in the eye of the beholder, google Blackwater, Erik Prince and Cofer Black for a start. The company's web site is blackwaterusa.com
There is an interview with the founder of Blackwater, Erik Prince done by Charlie Rose on youtube.