Energy Efficiency and Conservation

[needmorestrength]

Whats everyones take on this? Either on a vehicle, house, or business base??

[Kratos]

yeah, you should do it

[N*E*R*D]

Sorry i thought you said conversation, i was gonna say. lol

[wilson9d]

i think it is mostly hype. not that i dont agree with the concept. but all the corps are increasing their margins off the green movment. you and i are paying for it.

[Tock]

The US imports 70% of its oil, and most of that comes from countries that don't like us. Best thing for national security, and the best thing to avoid wars with governments that might want to use the US addiction to oil against us, is to use something else.

OPEC could reduce oil production by a couple million barrells a day, and things would get uncomfortable pretty quick. They could boycott the US, and you sure wouldn't like what came next.

Texas billionaire oilman T. Boone Pickens is putting a lot of his own $$$ on windmill farms for electric generation. The Texas Public Utility Commission authorized $4.93 billion for power distribution lines to transport the electricity. He's also pushing to get the Federal government to spec all of its new heavy trucks to run on natural gas (for lots of good reasons, with which I bore you).

The US buys $700 billion in overpriced oil every year. Unfriendly governments use that money to buy Rolls Royces and mansions for their leaders and advanced weaponry for their military. There's no telling how much goes to support terrorists.

Much better just to keep that cash at home, buying green energy and fuel efficient cars and more insulation for home. Less expensive in the long run, and we won't have to worry about what the bad guys want to do to us . . .

[RuhlFreak55]

The US imports 70% of its oil, and most of that comes from countries that don't like us. Best thing for national security, and the best thing to avoid wars with governments that might want to use the US addiction to oil against us, is to use something else.

OPEC could reduce oil production by a couple million barrells a day, and things would get uncomfortable pretty quick. They could boycott the US, and you sure wouldn't like what came next.

Texas billionaire oilman T. Boone Pickens is putting a lot of his own $$$ on windmill farms for electric generation. The Texas Public Utility Commission authorized $4.93 billion for power distribution lines to transport the electricity. He's also pushing to get the Federal government to spec all of its new heavy trucks to run on natural gas (for lots of good reasons, with which I bore you).

The US buys $700 billion in overpriced oil every year. Unfriendly governments use that money to buy Rolls Royces and mansions for their leaders and advanced weaponry for their military. There's no telling how much goes to support terrorists.

Much better just to keep that cash at home, buying green energy and fuel efficient cars and more insulation for home. Less expensive in the long run, and we won't have to worry about what the bad guys want to do to us . . .

i don't like this blanket statement......and quite frankly it's extremely annoying how many people i come across that have such a "US is the king of the world" view.....we live in a global economy now and to hate other parts of the world for belief systems is absurd. Yes some people in the world dislike Americans......are those people an entire country? **** no.....

[StoneGRMI]

3 years ago I bought a VW Jetta cause I was pissed when gas went over $2.00! Since then I have bought a condo and put in an energy efficient fridge, dishwasher, stove/oven, washer, dryer and furnace. If and when I get out of the condo I'll buy a house then spend money on getting some solar while it's "cheap".

[needmorestrength]

3 years ago I bought a VW Jetta cause I was pissed when gas went over $2.00! Since then I have bought a condo and put in an energy efficient fridge, dishwasher, stove/oven, washer, dryer and furnace. If and when I get out of the condo I'll buy a house then spend money on getting some solar while it's "cheap".

Beauty!!! Dont forget things like toilets, shower heads and aerators!!

[needmorestrength]

The US imports 70% of its oil, and most of that comes from countries that don't like us. Best thing for national security, and the best thing to avoid wars with governments that might want to use the US addiction to oil against us, is to use something else.

OPEC could reduce oil production by a couple million barrells a day, and things would get uncomfortable pretty quick. They could boycott the US, and you sure wouldn't like what came next.

Texas billionaire oilman T. Boone Pickens is putting a lot of his own $$$ on windmill farms for electric generation. The Texas Public Utility Commission authorized $4.93 billion for power distribution lines to transport the electricity. He's also pushing to get the Federal government to spec all of its new heavy trucks to run on natural gas (for lots of good reasons, with which I bore you).

The US buys $700 billion in overpriced oil every year. Unfriendly governments use that money to buy Rolls Royces and mansions for their leaders and advanced weaponry for their military. There's no telling how much goes to support terrorists.

Much better just to keep that cash at home, buying green energy and fuel efficient cars and more insulation for home. Less expensive in the long run, and we won't have to worry about what the bad guys want to do to us . . .

Whats maddening is that... By 2010 fuel cell cars could very well be in production and on the road, but guess what.. I bet gas companies, and therefore gov'ts would be losing out, and greed comes before everything else these days!!??

[StoneGRMI]

Beauty!!! Dont forget things like toilets, shower heads and aerators!!

My toilets were already efficient but one thing I refuse I change is my shower head because I love my showers. I've been to friends houses where they have the low flow showerhead and I can't do it. I only take 2-3 minute showers but I need that pressure!

[needmorestrength]

My toilets were already efficient but one thing I refuse I change is my shower head because I love my showers. I've been to friends houses where they have the low flow showerhead and I can't do it. I only take 2-3 minute showers but I need that pressure!

You could scrub yourself to get the dirt off ya know ?? LOL

[Kratos]

low flow toilets are no good. I re-did my bathroom myself. A friend was taking out all the toilets in their house and replacing them and the house was only 2 years old. I took one and installed in, they were expensive toilets from a nice house. Worst toilet ever, low flow, manditory courtesy flush.

[StoneGRMI]

You could scrub yourself to get the dirt off ya know ?? LOL

lol I'm never even dirty as I have an office job but I just need that relaxation from the high pressure nozzle massaging my back! I'm quick but I can't take a light shower!

[StoneGRMI]

^^Actually...as cheap as I may sound I've been going to the gym twice a day for cardio and lifting but also showering when I need it on their tab. I'm at an expensive club for 80/month with everything imaginable so I might as well make them pay for my showers/deodorant/laundry!

[needmorestrength]

low flow toilets are no good. I re-did my bathroom myself. A friend was taking out all the toilets in their house and replacing them and the house was only 2 years old. I took one and installed in, they were expensive toilets from a nice house. Worst toilet ever, low flow, manditory courtesy flush.

Sorry bro depends on the type of the toilet, I have spent over 50 million on toilets for my company! Niagra flapperless all the way, look up the cheerio test!!!!

[needmorestrength]

lol I'm never even dirty as I have an office job but I just need that relaxation from the high pressure nozzle massaging my back! I'm quick but I can't take a light shower!

Im the opposite, I like long showers hahah my woman says I take longer then her

[3v1lj03]

3 years ago I bought a VW Jetta cause I was pissed when gas went over $2.00! Since then I have bought a condo and put in an energy efficient fridge, dishwasher, stove/oven, washer, dryer and furnace. If and when I get out of the condo I'll buy a house then spend money on getting some solar while it's "cheap".

Solar is not cheap!

[3v1lj03]

Whats maddening is that... By 2010 fuel cell cars could very well be in production and on the road, but guess what.. I bet gas companies, and therefore gov'ts would be losing out, and greed comes before everything else these days!!??

Where do you think they get the hydrogen for the fuel cell. Most commonly from natural gas.

[FallenWyvern]

I really don't get some of these hybrid cars.

Hasn't there always been a sub compact 4 cylinder car out there that is really small and gets great gas millage anyways?

Sounds like hype to me.

[StoneGRMI]

Solar is not cheap!

Oh I know it's not cheap. But it's going to be getting more and more expensive in the upcoming years therefore I might as well spend the money now.

[StoneGRMI]

I really don't get some of these hybrid cars.

Hasn't there always been a sub compact 4 cylinder car out there that is really small and gets great gas millage anyways?

Sounds like hype to me.

None that get 50 mile/gallon.

[FallenWyvern]

None that get 50 mile/gallon.

Every one that has a hybrid where I live claims that they are getting 30% less mpg than what the sticker says. Must be the air conditioning?

[3v1lj03]

I really don't get some of these hybrid cars.

Hasn't there always been a sub compact 4 cylinder car out there that is really small and gets great gas millage anyways?

Sounds like hype to me.

Honda C** has gotten 50 mpg highway for a while. I know guys that get that all the time. Mercedes turbo diesels have gotten 40 + mpg since the mid 80s as well as VW diesels list goes on Hybrids are not cost effective. IMHO

[needmorestrength]

Oh I know it's not cheap. But it's going to be getting more and more expensive in the upcoming years therefore I might as well spend the money now.

Are you talking about PV or DHW???

[Kratos]

hybrids are stupid, people are paying thousands over sticker right now, 30k for a prius that should be a 15 k car if not for the hybrid drivetrain, to try to eek out a few more mpg. You're gonna have to drive that thing the rest of your life to re-coup the extra 15k in gas. My buddy has one, gets 35mpg combined. I get 31 combined in a saab turbo that looks better imo, performs better, and I paid way less for.

[3v1lj03]

Oh I know it's not cheap. But it's going to be getting more and more expensive in the upcoming years therefore I might as well spend the money now.

I think that it will get cheaper but it will take a break thru I know what you mean though the demand for solar is very high right now and the price has gone up a little. Problem is the photo voltaic cell is very inefficient. Only about 18% of the sunlight actually gets converted to voltage and that means you need allot of cells to make any real power so that is why it is costly the manufacturing process is the same an ic but there is a lot more silicon needed so again more money. I would really like to put photo voltaic on my house but the price sucks. I have passive solar for heat and it is awesome.

[Tock]

Sorry bro depends on the type of the toilet, I have spent over 50 million on toilets for my company! Niagra flapperless all the way, look up the cheerio test!!!!

Ya, definitely. I put a shiny new Toto in my shop, works great. There's a website somewhere that compares toilets; Toto ranked pretty high, was beat only by a powerflush commode.

[Tock]

I really don't get some of these hybrid cars.

Hasn't there always been a sub compact 4 cylinder car out there that is really small and gets great gas millage anyways?

Sounds like hype to me.

I bought a shiny new Geo Metro back in 1995, it had a 3 cylinder engine, 998 cc's. It would average 56 miles per gallon on a long road trip. Around town with the AC running, I'd get an honest 36. Acceleration wasn't much, maybe 0 to 60 in a few days.
Eventually traded it in on a truck (needed for my business)

No idea what the 4 cylinder versions got . . .

[Strategus]

Two years ago, I purchased a used hybrid for less than 15K.

At first the car payments s*cked, but now with $4 gas, it's worth it! Buying a hybrid is a long-term commitment. I was iffy about it at first, but I had a strong feeling that gas prices would rise overall, despite a dip in '04 right after I bought the car.

Now, I'm really happy that I bought the used hybrid when I did.

In a way, it's kinda like lifting...and even more like commiting enough to a BB lifestyle to do gear. It's a commitment of years to a certain way of doing things.

I sure am glad that I didn't delay my decision on the hybrid until now -- it's too hard now to find a car that gets good mileage.

Ahh...Geo Metros! In a way, they're funny like Yugos or Trabis (anyone know what that is (-; wink wink) but they are very efficient on gas!

Mom drove a Geo Metro in the early 1990s LOL after using a red Schwinn for much of her life. Mom was like the total antithesis of the SUV driver...

Whether it's a Geo Metro or a hybrid car...it CAN be driven so that you can pull 45 mpg or better during the summer. Pretend thay you're an old lady out for a Sunday drive. Or, drive as if you're riding a bike. Cruise down hills, even little ones. I drive normally up the hills and the like, but let 'er cruise on flats or down hills. Result? I pull over 50 mpg in summer and around 45-47 mpg in the winter.

Water and the shower? That's one area I DON'T conserve. Greasy hair and sweat? Needs to go! Fortunately, I live in the Southeast and we have well water. I wish the shower head were one of those prosh high-pressure thingies....in fact, I have one on hand - just need to install it!

[RuhlFreak55]

Honda C** has gotten 50 mpg highway for a while. I know guys that get that all the time. Mercedes turbo diesels have gotten 40 + mpg since the mid 80s as well as VW diesels list goes on Hybrids are not cost effective. IMHO

EXACTLY what i was goin for......good gas mileage ain't anything new

[needmorestrength]

I think that it will get cheaper but it will take a break thru I know what you mean though the demand for solar is very high right now and the price has gone up a little. Problem is the photo voltaic cell is very inefficient. Only about 18% of the sunlight actually gets converted to voltage and that means you need allot of cells to make any real power so that is why it is costly the manufacturing process is the same an ic but there is a lot more silicon needed so again more money. I would really like to put photo voltaic on my house but the price sucks. I have passive solar for heat and it is awesome.

Ya exactly, actually depending on the panel, the cell and the silicon (depending on if its natural or synthetic) solar panals are typically 20-35% efficient! There are things coming though, hold of for a few years and it will be worth it!!! And good call on the passive heating....Wait till cooling is available

[DNoMac]

Helium-3
Researchers and space enthusiasts see helium 3 as the perfect fuel source: extremely potent, nonpolluting, withvirtually no radioactive by-product. Proponents claim its the fuel of the 21st century. The trouble is, hardly any of it is found on Earth.But there is plenty of it on the moon.

Scientists estimate there are about1 million tons of helium 3 on the moon, enough to power the world for thousandsof years. The equivalent of a single space shuttle load or roughly 25 tonscould supply the entire United States' energy needs for a year, accordingto Apollo17 astronaut and FTI researcher Harrison Schmitt.

In terms of it's energy equivalence to oil, it would be worth $4 billion a ton.

[RuhlFreak55]

Helium-3
Researchers and space enthusiasts see helium 3 as the perfect fuel source: extremely potent, nonpolluting, withvirtually no radioactive by-product. Proponents claim its the fuel of the 21st century. The trouble is, hardly any of it is found on Earth.But there is plenty of it on the moon.

Scientists estimate there are about1 million tons of helium 3 on the moon, enough to power the world for thousandsof years. The equivalent of a single space shuttle load or roughly 25 tonscould supply the entire United States' energy needs for a year, accordingto Apollo17 astronaut and FTI researcher Harrison Schmitt.

In terms of it's energy equivalence to oil, it would be worth $4 billion a ton.

i'm buying land on the moon RIGHT now

[RuhlFreak55]

cool you can actually do it ima buy like 1000 acres

[Kärnfysikern]

Efficiency might be good for your wallet, but in the bigger picture it does absolutely nothing to save energy. This has been known since the 19th century
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jevons_paradox
But the greens have forgotten about it and assholes like Armorly Lovins and other "energy guru's" are preaching like it will make a damn difference.

Efficiency is great for saving money, but it will do hardly nothing for the environment or the coming energy crisis.

[bigt10]

The US imports 70% of its oil, and most of that comes from countries that don't like us. Best thing for national security, and the best thing to avoid wars with governments that might want to use the US addiction to oil against us, is to use something else.

OPEC could reduce oil production by a couple million barrells a day, and things would get uncomfortable pretty quick. They could boycott the US, and you sure wouldn't like what came next.

Texas billionaire oilman T. Boone Pickens is putting a lot of his own $$$ on windmill farms for electric generation. The Texas Public Utility Commission authorized $4.93 billion for power distribution lines to transport the electricity. He's also pushing to get the Federal government to spec all of its new heavy trucks to run on natural gas (for lots of good reasons, with which I bore you).

The US buys $700 billion in overpriced oil every year. Unfriendly governments use that money to buy Rolls Royces and mansions for their leaders and advanced weaponry for their military. There's no telling how much goes to support terrorists.

Much better just to keep that cash at home, buying green energy and fuel efficient cars and more insulation for home. Less expensive in the long run, and we won't have to worry about what the bad guys want to do to us . . .

They have already boycotted the US.

Iran wants to sell Oil in euros, just as iraq did and were going after iran now.

inflation is 20 % in some of htose countries.

they are starting to wake up.

alot of things are going to get more expensive and we cant afford them.

Inflation is our biggest export and that is time to stop.

Anyways when your dollar goes please dont come to canada.

Thank GOD the ECB and the bank of canada dont want to go along with the Fed anymore.

When other countries stop "pegging" their currency to the US dollar things will get alot better,

Energy conservation?

I look at it from a free market perspective, the government cant force it. IF it saves people money they will do it.

I am not an Oil bug but there isw a reason oil has been choosen for years for automobiles ans gasoline. If someone else comes along better than people will switch to it and so far either alternatives are not good enough and to expensive therefore the free market chooses to not use them

For the last ****ing time, oil is not gotten that more expensive. The fed has just debased the dollar more by printing so much of it so it takes more dollars to by the same amount of oil while at the same time your salary has not increased.

Oil companies dont make crazy profit. From what i beleive out of gasoline 9-11 % is profit. After the gov steals all their money from tax n them and gas etc the actual profit range for gasoline is about 9-11 %.

Infact i hope we have a big recession to fix things and restore our dollar before the rest of the world abandons it.

I am scared cause they will avoid the recession and print off more money and the next big government fiasco will be alternative energy and then that bubble will collapse to. It is a high chance the government will get into that and like all government programs will fail.

People need to w3ake up, people treat the dollar like it is gold. Other countries particualary asian ones in which we give our counterfitted dollars to for their goods, are going to stop investing their dollars here when they realize we cant pay it back or if we do we will print off more money to pay them back (fannie man and freddie mac nationalization)

One day they will realize the us dollar keeps losing its value, and they will choose to not use them.

When that day comes we cant export inflation anymore.

Anyways i hope we have a big recession so housing prices can get back to what they should have been, which also was a problem the government created by making housing to accessible to many buyers who would have been renters bought homes driving up the price (thanks to those 2 % interest rates) this kind of interest rate also distorts the market.

Anyways i am extatic, nor once in my life time would i beleive we have a true chance at sound money and a gold backed dollar (thanks www.mises.org)

Maybee i wont lose my savings, and we wont have such a huge government because no government can be as big as ours through tax, only through the credit expansion of a central bank.

You all laugh but once things blow up and people realize the immorality and dangers of fractional reserve banking things will change.

This is also why banks are clsoing now, they only have to have 10 % of cash on hand, they can loan out the other 90 %. That is immoral, wrong, and should be recognized as fraud.

Back to the topic and about Oil etc, i would worry about 8 $ gasoline at the rate the gov keps creating new money.

Secodnly other countries resorted to price controls on oil, food, and energy etc which is not helping.

[tiger909]

just need to clear some of this nonsense up.....

first helium-3 is ridiculously preliminary in research, no one is hiding anything. and even on the moon (which has no atmoshere, so solid H3 must be harvested) it only exists in
.01 ppm. pretty much only stars have H3 in large quantities.

second- america is not dependant on the middle east for oil, yet. our obsession with the region is more security based (moderator for China/Russia). In fact asides from country itself, the two largest sources of oil for american use are by far Mexico and Canada.

[Kärnfysikern]

just need to clear some of this nonsense up.....

first helium-3 is ridiculously preliminary in research, no one is hiding anything. and even on the moon (which has no atmoshere, so solid H3 must be harvested) it only exists in
.01 ppm. pretty much only stars have H3 in large quantities.

second- america is not dependant on the middle east for oil, yet. our obsession with the region is more security based (moderator for China/Russia). In fact asides from country itself, the two largest sources of oil for american use are by far Mexico and Canada.

More importantly helium 3 would never be needed even if we could manage to get a fusion reactor that can run on it

With the thorium and uranium we got on earth we got plenty of energy for more or less a unlimited time. One ton of uranium or thorium used in a closed fuel cycle has the same energy content as 300 000 tons of oil.

If we get into a energy crisis its not because there isnt enough energy to tap, its because stupidity stands in the way of real solutions.

[Bojangles69]

We actually discussed this in another recent thread, just shit in the shower.