Thinking of joining the military! Need advise!

[Voice of Reason]

.

[g0dsend]

Join the Coast Guard, Its supose to be really easy and you dont get deployed overseas. I dont have personal experience but from what I hear you get to patrol the coast and hopefully catch drug smugglers coming into the USA. You can take prob sneak a little share of those drugs for yourself

[kynetguy]

I'll play nice and let you think a little more as to why a current or former servicemember in a combat MOS who has lost good friends, teammates, and mentors may find an avatar of a soldier covered with oil company patches to be in poor taste (especially from someone who hasn't served but is still giving advice about the military).

Ah, we fought for his freedom of speech that allows him to use that avatar. SO be it.

Being a vet of the first Gulf war, I will have to say that teh avatar is not really far from true. This would apply to both the first and second gulf war.

I just think people are far too sensitive these days. The whole political correct movement just PISSES me off. We as a society are becoming weak and sensitive. Everyone has to have a cause to stand for, a disorder that has an acronym so they have an excuse for succking at life, and everyone wants something for nothing. What happened to good old fashion hard work and blaming yourself for sucking at life?

[nhl1]

The day I got kicked out of the marines was the greatest day of my life. But I'm a free spirit, I like adventure and living life, following my own path and being reckless and wild, not taking orders and following rules. Trust me, the "adventure" that the military claims to be, isn't what it claims to be.

And I'm not saying drugs and alcohol are good, especially not drugs (which I know from personal experience) but you don't seem to have any set goal in life yet, have you tried just letting loose a little bit and spend some time just seeing what happens?

Everyone in this world is such a "go, go" attitude, and it doesnt mean that its always right.

But like someone else said, if you do decide to join, for GODs sake go RESERVE!!! You can ALWAYS switch to active anytime that you want, but it is not the other way around.

[thegodfather]

Ah, we fought for his freedom of speech that allows him to use that avatar. SO be it.

Being a vet of the first Gulf war, I will have to say that teh avatar is not really far from true. This would apply to both the first and second gulf war.

I just think people are far too sensitive these days. The whole political correct movement just PISSES me off. We as a society are becoming weak and sensitive. Everyone has to have a cause to stand for, a disorder that has an acronym so they have an excuse for succking at life, and everyone wants something for nothing. What happened to good old fashion hard work and blaming yourself for sucking at life?

Can you explain to me how Saddam Hussein and Iraq was threatening the American way of life in either the Gulf War or OIF? I don't recall Saddam mounting an invasion of the US homeland in order to install a brutal dictatorship in America, stripping us all of our constitutional rights.

I thank everyone for their service. But I think it's also prudent to realise that not every war is 'preserving my rights.' Certainly there have been wars in the past which were essential to preserving the American way of life and the Constitution. However, I think you would be hard pressed to find any conflicts which the US engaged in post WWII where the enemy actually posed any REAL danger to the United States homeland.

So I find it rather cliched for you to say that you fought for my right to have an avatar like that, when in essence you fought for special interest groups and lobby groups like AIPAC, and not for my Constitutional rights. My constitutional rights would have kept existing whether or not the United States intervened in two sovereign nations affairs and kicked Iraq out of Kuwait. I also find it rather ridiculous for you to discredit the work of others for not joining the military.

There also needs to be a distinction made between wars of necessity and serving your country out of necessity. In previous wars where a draft was instituted it was the patriotic thing to do to serve your country (as in World War I and World War II). The pay was menial, and you were in fact fighting for the American way of life. However today, with $20,000 sign on bonuses and excellent benefit packages, as well as the G.I. Bill it's a little bit harder for you to sell me the "serving my country line." The American army today is a paid army, it's a CAREER path. It is not as it used to be, service out of necessity. You get plenty in exchange for your service, paid for by the American tax payers.

[rockinred]

I joined and fought for myself and challenged my own inner being for reasons inside me and not for anything else as far as sadaam or who ever ... doesn't matter what the hell was going on back then... tell me to fight and destroy and I was game...I was too ignorant and full of adventure....boy I learned a lot from my youthful stupidity.. but anyways....

godfather, I think CSAR's main advice for dirtball was to question his thoughts on joining for the fact of paying his car at the risk of losing his life... that is the differentiator from a person that was joining for various reasons without the risk of going and losing their life... so I agree with him... if it is peacetime (or whatever that means), join because you are at a dead end and need a boost or some direction or time... when shit is going on and you join to pay your car then suddenly find yourself getting shot at, then bad choice... and f@#$ the car payment. you have to have your own reasons for being there, whatever they are, and a car payment definately isn't worth it.

[kynetguy]

Can you explain to me how Saddam Hussein and Iraq was threatening the American way of life in either the Gulf War or OIF? I don't recall Saddam mounting an invasion of the US homeland in order to install a brutal dictatorship in America, stripping us all of our constitutional rights.

I thank everyone for their service. But I think it's also prudent to realise that not every war is 'preserving my rights.' Certainly there have been wars in the past which were essential to preserving the American way of life and the Constitution. However, I think you would be hard pressed to find any conflicts which the US engaged in post WWII where the enemy actually posed any REAL danger to the United States homeland.

So I find it rather cliched for you to say that you fought for my right to have an avatar like that, when in essence you fought for special interest groups and lobby groups like AIPAC, and not for my Constitutional rights. My constitutional rights would have kept existing whether or not the United States intervened in two sovereign nations affairs and kicked Iraq out of Kuwait. I also find it rather ridiculous for you to discredit the work of others for not joining the military.

There also needs to be a distinction made between wars of necessity and serving your country out of necessity. In previous wars where a draft was instituted it was the patriotic thing to do to serve your country (as in World War I and World War II). The pay was menial, and you were in fact fighting for the American way of life. However today, with $20,000 sign on bonuses and excellent benefit packages, as well as the G.I. Bill it's a little bit harder for you to sell me the "serving my country line." The American army today is a paid army, it's a CAREER path. It is not as it used to be, service out of necessity. You get plenty in exchange for your service, paid for by the American tax payers.

Listen you left wing piece of liberal shit, step off your high and mighty soap box and read my post again. I think you will retract the shit that is dripping off your uneducated non-comprehending tongue. If you can comprehend AT ALL, you will see that I said your avatar WAS NOT FAR FROM TRUE, thus agreeing with your avatar. The difference is I keep my mouth shut. I don't spit in the face of men and women willing to die for me. Although, I do feel I have more of a right than you do. Why? Because I did my 8 years and 3 tours starting in 91.

Don't expect to go to bed at night safe and sound under a blanket of freedom, yet criticize the manner in which it is provided through the blood sweat and tears of servicemen and families who suffer loss across the country unless you are willing to step up and do your part. All wars are not fought specifically FOR YOUR freedoms. Lots of battles and missions are carried out to help maintain peace around the world and to protect basic human rights everywhere. These people we protect are called ALLIES.

Have you ever considered the basic effects of an uprising in the middle east? OBVIOUSLY not. Do you NOT have an idea how barbaric and inhumane and insensitive that certain terroist cells are? Do you not know that they do not care about you, your family or your way of life? These peace keeping missions DO protect your freedoms, you are just not, never have been nor ever will be, entitled to the Top Secret information that supports this.

OHHHH WAIT, you you not even recall those SAME terrorist cells hijacking planes and crashing them into a couple small buildings up in NYC? I think we had a couple people die, maybe I am wrong. I am sure you will correct me with your bullshit. I bet their surviving families think that those terrorist had an effect on THEIR way of life.

But see, that didn't happen in your back yard, that was a house down the street. You didn't feel any direct pain and suffering. You still got to go to bed safe because public service people and soldiers came to the call of duty to make sure your ungrateful ass could sleep without fear of a 767 landing on your roof. They answered the call of the nation so you could still use your little avatar to rub in the faces of past and present service men and their families.

Let me tell you something, they are tired of being there too. They know that at this point in the game there isn't much left to gain. You can only help someone who wants to be helped. But no matter how opposed you are to the mission they are assigned, it does not give you the right to spit in their face and make jokes about why they are there.

Just because a person is in the military does not mean we agree to every mission and cause we are assigned. We take an oath of service and swear before God to uphold the constitution and follow the orders of the President of the United States. There is not a clause that say "only if you agree with the mission" that allows us to step back and not go. How many people there and who have DIED would you care to guess WANTED to be there? A small percentage I am most certain.

To understand why we helped in the first Gulf war of 91, you must go back to 80-88 when iran and iraq were at war, I am not teaching you things that happened before you were born. The first Gulf war was a United Nations action to help Kuwait, our ally, who was actually in the wrong, not a US action. The US just had the most firepower and presence.
There was some oil motive there, but actually at the time, we were getting more oil from Iraq than kuwait, yet we were fighting for Kuwait.


And lastly, the biggest threat to the American way of life? LIBERALS. Liberals who let illegals stay, liberals who take God out of the very nation founded on judo christian beliefs, liberals who slowly take away freedoms from the american people. . . .God, I could go on and on.

[thegodfather]

Listen you left wing piece of liberal shit, step off your high and mighty soap box and read my post again. I think you will retract the shit that is dripping off your uneducated non-comprehending tongue. If you can comprehend AT ALL, you will see that I said your avatar WAS NOT FAR FROM TRUE, thus agreeing with your avatar. The difference is I keep my mouth shut. I don't spit in the face of men and women willing to die for me. Although, I do feel I have more of a right than you do. Why? Because I did my 8 years and 3 tours starting in 91.

Don't expect to go to bed at night safe and sound under a blanket of freedom, yet criticize the manner in which it is provided through the blood sweat and tears of servicemen and families who suffer loss across the country unless you are willing to step up and do your part. All wars are not fought specifically FOR YOUR freedoms. Lots of battles and missions are carried out to help maintain peace around the world and to protect basic human rights everywhere. These people we protect are called ALLIES.

Have you ever considered the basic effects of an uprising in the middle east? OBVIOUSLY not. Do you NOT have an idea how barbaric and inhumane and insensitive that certain terroist cells are? Do you not know that they do not care about you, your family or your way of life? These peace keeping missions DO protect your freedoms, you are just not, never have been nor ever will be, entitled to the Top Secret information that supports this.

OHHHH WAIT, you you not even recall those SAME terrorist cells hijacking planes and crashing them into a couple small buildings up in NYC? I think we had a couple people die, maybe I am wrong. I am sure you will correct me with your bullshit. I bet their surviving families think that those terrorist had an effect on THEIR way of life.

But see, that didn't happen in your back yard, that was a house down the street. You didn't feel any direct pain and suffering. You still got to go to bed safe because public service people and soldiers came to the call of duty to make sure your ungrateful ass could sleep without fear of a 767 landing on your roof. They answered the call of the nation so you could still use your little avatar to rub in the faces of past and present service men and their families.

Let me tell you something, they are tired of being there too. They know that at this point in the game there isn't much left to gain. You can only help someone who wants to be helped. But no matter how opposed you are to the mission they are assigned, it does not give you the right to spit in their face and make jokes about why they are there.

Just because a person is in the military does not mean we agree to every mission and cause we are assigned. We take an oath of service and swear before God to uphold the constitution and follow the orders of the President of the United States. There is not a clause that say "only if you agree with the mission" that allows us to step back and not go. How many people there and who have DIED would you care to guess WANTED to be there? A small percentage I am most certain.

To understand why we helped in the first Gulf war of 91, you must go back to 80-88 when iran and iraq were at war, I am not teaching you things that happened before you were born. The first Gulf war was a United Nations action to help Kuwait, our ally, who was actually in the wrong, not a US action. The US just had the most firepower and presence.
There was some oil motive there, but actually at the time, we were getting more oil from Iraq than kuwait, yet we were fighting for Kuwait.


And lastly, the biggest threat to the American way of life? LIBERALS. Liberals who let illegals stay, liberals who take God out of the very nation founded on judo christian beliefs, liberals who slowly take away freedoms from the american people. . . .God, I could go on and on.

Your assumptions are predicated on a massive propaganda campaign AGAINST the American public. I think trying to refute such claims is most likely futile as our opinions differ so much it would be pointless. But let us consider that the middle east is our enemy because we made them our enemy. Our continued presence and interference in their lives and affairs. From building bases on their holy land, to massive monetary and military support of Israel, one of the biggest human rights violators in the world.

Your analysis of my political orientation could not be FURTHER from the truth. I am a registered Republican, and I consider myself to be a CONSERVATIVE LIBERTARIAN. That means that I believe in following the Constitution to the exact letter of the law the way it was written. I do not believe in undeclared wars or meddling in the affairs of SOVEREIGN nations. I believe in non-interventionism, the same principle that the FOUNDERS of this country believed in.

The views that you are espousing are that of Neo-Conservatives. You may claim I'm part of the blame America first crowd, but I'll claim that your part of the blame America NEVER crowd.

[kynetguy]

I am going to sleep on it, I will get back to you when I can conjure an intelligent thought. I don't TOTALLY disagree with you. But I do not totally agree with you either.

I would actually like to know what parts you think are propaganda compaign items.

There you hit on something that is wrong. . . MEDIA and misinformation. OK, I am seriously going to bed now. The media would most certainly keep me up all night in a fit of Tren assisted rage.

[kynetguy]

That was a pretty good reply though, considering how POed I was and slandered (technically libel) you straight out the gate. Wow. . .I need to back off the tren .

[warchild]

[warchild]

great debate though fellas.

[RangersLTW]

Nice, I remembered this for my fellow soliders and those who want to be

I used to be an Airborne man,
They dropped me from a plane in Vietnam.
Lock and load your M16,
Grab your gear and follow me!

Take the safety off your gun,
Lets go have some combat fun.
Find some enemies, roamin'' around,
Take your aim and mow 'em down.

Find some N.V.A.. and capture them all,
Line them up against the wall.
Cock your Colt and line up a shot,
Squeeze the trigger and kill the lot.

[thegodfather]

That was a pretty good reply though, considering how POed I was and slandered (technically libel) you straight out the gate. Wow. . .I need to back off the tren.

While I recognize that my personal politics may not be popular, it is never my intention to insult anyone on a personal level, but merely to counter their opinions on various policies and philosophies. I believe we can have differing opinions while still maintaining respect for one another.

[RangersLTW]

Somewhere there's a woman
She's crying for her man
He's an airborne ranger
He does the best he can
Refrainon't cry for me
I don't need your sympathy
'Cause I'm an airborne ranger
And that's all I want to be
Somewhere there's a mother
She's praying for her son
He's an airborne ranger
And his work is never done
Somewhere there's a father
His head is bowed in grief
His son was an airborne ranger
And he died for his beliefs
Somewhere there's a mother
Flag folded in her hands
Her son was an airborne ranger
And he died for his land

Do you still want to live the life of a solider?

[CSAR]

While I recognize that my personal politics may not be popular, it is never my intention to insult anyone on a personal level, but merely to counter their opinions on various policies and philosophies. I believe we can have differing opinions while still maintaining respect for one another.

Do you really? Because I find your avatar to be disrespectful, especially to those serving and those who have served. Whether or not our service guaranteed your right to free speech, to fill up your POV (that's car), or for a host of other reasons is up for debate. But I've lost good friends who didn't re-up for their 2nd and 3rd tours to provide you with jack shit. They went back because they felt a responsibility to the young men under their command and to help bring them back to their families and a way of life that people take for granted. Military service is like childbirth - you can read about it, you can talk to people about it, and you can contemplate it all you want, but until you actually experience it you will never truly understand it.

Also, I sincerely hope you don't drive a car or use other transportation requiring petroleum products, because if you do, then you're a hypocrite of the highest magnitude. If you truly believe what your avatar espouses, then the blood of young men and women is ensuring your right to fill 'er up at your service station of choice. Happy driving!!

I'm done with this thread. My $638 deposit from Exxon for my service-connected disability is coming soon and I need to make a list of all the porn videos and beef jerky I'm going to buy this month.

[dirtball_619]

Damn i stirred some sh!t up! lol well heres the update. Went down to see an Army recruiter in the mall, knowing hes probably gonna be as slimy as a car salesman if not worse.

The guy seemed sorta slow for being in the army 18 years, couldnt give me constant eye contact like id expect from a soldier either. so i took everything he said with a grain of salt and am currently forming my own conclusion at the moment. We confirmed my car would be all taken car of and went over the numbers etc. etc.

I took the test they had on the computer at the recruiting station, they said the practice test i took was harder than the Actual official test. Also, people almost always score 10 points higher on the real test too and i scored a 67 out of 99 when 30 is passing. WOOT!

Not to be a snob or offend anyone but it just sorta seemed like they would let anyone in the army just from watching the other recruiters in there and how they presented themselves.

Next teusday is the asfab and that test that determines what MOS i qualify for so wish me luck bros!

BTW- id like to thank Everyone that posted there advice in my thread its really helped me look at both sides. final decision will be by friday.

[dirtball_619]

Also, I re-read my first post and it really does look like im just doing it to pay for my car when thats not the case.

It is a HUGE plus about the car, but ive been searching for ways to better myself as well with little improvement for the last year or so, but still alot better than what i was at a couple years ago.

Id just like to improve my discipline, drive to complete things, cognative ability, decision making and become better at maintaining a consistent lifestyle (Lifting, eating, sleeping,working). Basically become able to hold down an efficient routine.

I was always the rich kid who had everything given to him until 15 when some VERY unfortunate things Happened in my family and had everything stripped from me. (Moved to AZ, mom got cancer a month later, dad layed off, hospital bills) Then i got into the wrong crowd who did drugs because i didnt know how to cope with such a dramatic change. quite that and got rid of all my drug buddies. This left me with very few acquintences, and 2 part time jobs so i could pay for i car i bought to fill the gap of not having friends so id be happy (didnt work,no money to do anything). I think the army would force some coping skills in adapting to changing conditions of living which is what i never developed and really need to.

So its all up in the air right now although i am pretty excited to start a new chapter in life.

Sorry for the long read and again, thanks for all the advice and opinions!

HOOAH!

[nhl1]

Hey dirtball, just to let you know, those recruiters ARE just trying to sell you in. They don't care about you, they have quotas to make, and they will do anything that they can to get you to sign those documents.

I just saw an article the other day (cant find the link) about a recruiter who threatened an enlistee who was ready to pull out at the last moment and the recruiter said, "you cant, if you do this, you will be dishonorably discharged, and thats going to be on your permanent record, and you're life will be ruined!" This was all a complete fabrication and the recruiter did get some kind of reprimand, though I dont remember what exactly.

Military life isnt for everyone! It most definitely was not for me. I was wide eyed and bored after high school and was looking for adventure. Military life is following rules, regulations, procedure, and taking orders. I was so glad to have gotten out. I then went on to start my own business and became very successful. Now, I also got taken down by the IRS and FBI years later, but thats a different story. lol

Dont buy into that bs of the recruiter saying if you sign for this many years and active duty you will come out of boot camp as an e-2 or e-3. Your drill instructors will laugh at you when you get to boot camp and they tell you that.

Sign up for delayed enlistment, go reserve, and go to the weekend of bootcamp training, dont just go in blindly man it could end up being something that you really regret.

[dirtball_619]

well nhl1 you have a point. ive been running with no rules pretty much all my life but when i had weight training in highschool we had an ex drill seargent for our coach. I never felt so angry towards someone like i did with him for the first month.

After a little time went by and he worked us harder and harder i realized he was helping me alot! If it wasnt for him i probably would have never developed my love for the gym. This leads me to believe id do fairly well and excel when someones screaming in my face to do the pushups, clean my quarters, clean my shoes etc... all stuff id say "eh, ill do it tomorrow" to currently.

You do have a point though so im gathering as much info as i can from peeps who have been there and done that, not the ones who are trying to recruit me for quota or rank.

you also got me thinkin and its only 2 years of my life ya know. ill be 21 and still have so many options even if i did a 4 year enlistment.

[rockinred]

dirtball, don't judge the military by a recruiter for sure... and that goes for any branch. there are good and bad... a lot of NCO's (non-commissioned officers) that don't do to well in units get in to recruiting.. it is a cake job and a break from reg unit. anyhow, good luck on your choice and think about all the reasons.

[CSAR]

OK. I lied. I had to come back to publicly thank thegodfather for changing his avatar and to apologize for my part in this thread hijacking. Sorry. Back on point.

Dirtball, we had a pretty good thread going a year ago giving some information for people who were considering the military. I'll paste the link to that thread at the end of this post.

After reading your recent posts, I'd like to offer the following advice specific to you:
1. Before you sign anything at MEPS, make sure that everything your recruiter told you about your car loan/payments (and anything else) is on the final contract. If it isn't, then don't sign and don't let them try to talk you into signing if you're not certain. One of my classmates in HM (corpsman) school didn't get his child support payments written into his contract after his recruiter told him it would all be taken care of and went over the details. (He got his senator involved and it got real nasty. Because he had been in the service less than 90 days, they terminated his enlistment. However, he still didn't get the child support payments or any other financial help, so he was back to where he started.) Bottom line: If information specific to your enlistment is not written into the contract, then it's not going to happen.
2. Ask to see their answers to your questions backed up in writing. It pisses them off, but they'll have to provide proof. If they can't or give you an alternate excuse, then most likely something's not kosher.
3. After your ASVAB, the recruiter should go through the MOS's that you qualify for. He'll try to steer you to the ones that need personnel. Think about what you're interested in and what you want to do after you get out. Any connection you can make between the two is a big plus. Don't let them choose for you.
4. If you're not happy with your recruiter, go to another recruiting office and talk to a different recruiter. Be up front about it.

Anyhow, good luck on your ASVAB! Here's the link to the other thread. Read it before you head off to MEPS.

For those considering the military...

[CSAR]

Also, here's something that I'd like to share with everyone, especially to those currently serving and those who have served:

It is the soldier, not the reporter,
who has given us Freedom of Press.

It is the soldier, not the poet,
who has given us Freedom of Speech.

It is the soldier, not the campus organizer,
who has given us the Freedom to Demonstrate.

It is the soldier, who salutes the flag,
who serves beneath the flag, and whose coffin is draped by the flag,
that allows the protester to burn the flag.

[kynetguy]

OK. I lied. I had to come back to publicly thank thegodfather for changing his avatar and to apologize for my part in this thread hijacking. Sorry. Back on point.

Dirtball, we had a pretty good thread going a year ago giving some information for people who were considering the military. I'll paste the link to that thread at the end of this post.

After reading your recent posts, I'd like to offer the following advice specific to you:
1. Before you sign anything at MEPS, make sure that everything your recruiter told you about your car loan/payments (and anything else) is on the final contract. If it isn't, then don't sign and don't let them try to talk you into signing if you're not certain. One of my classmates in HM (corpsman) school didn't get his child support payments written into his contract after his recruiter told him it would all be taken care of and went over the details. (He got his senator involved and it got real nasty. Because he had been in the service less than 90 days, they terminated his enlistment. However, he still didn't get the child support payments or any other financial help, so he was back to where he started.) Bottom line: If information specific to your enlistment is not written into the contract, then it's not going to happen.
2. Ask to see their answers to your questions backed up in writing. It pisses them off, but they'll have to provide proof. If they can't or give you an alternate excuse, then most likely something's not kosher.
3. After your ASVAB, the recruiter should go through the MOS's that you qualify for. He'll try to steer you to the ones that need personnel. Think about what you're interested in and what you want to do after you get out. Any connection you can make between the two is a big plus. Don't let them choose for you.
4. If you're not happy with your recruiter, go to another recruiting office and talk to a different recruiter. Be up front about it.

Anyhow, good luck on your ASVAB! Here's the link to the other thread. Read it before you head off to MEPS.

For those considering the military...

Me too. I swore off this tread.

First, yes, thanks for changing the avatar.

1) MEPS: DEFINATELY DO NOT SIGN ANYTHING AT MEPS UNTIL YOU KNOW THE PROMISES ARE ON THE CONTRACT. Until you sign the contract, you are free to walk out. They will try to pressure and guilt you otherwise. But don't fall for it. Make sure you have enough money for a ride home if you walk. Otherwise you will have to listen to the recruiter the whole way should you find that your promises are not being met.

2-4 GREAT Advice.

Remember, you are there volluntarily. You owe them nothing for their efforts, that is what they get paid to do. Make YOUR OWN CHOICES and get it in WRITING. If it is NOT in writing, it does not exist.

[thegodfather]

OK. I lied. I had to come back to publicly thank thegodfather for changing his avatar and to apologize for my part in this thread hijacking. Sorry. Back on point.


For those considering the military...

No problem...Sorry for the hijack dirtball......now lets all gather round the campfire and sing koom-bay-ya..