Looking for examples of what people consider is the upper limit of a natural physic

[mick86]

I think I have a reasonable idea of what can and can't be achieved naturally, and on a daily biases I hear guys claiming to be natural, even when In some cases I know for certain that they are not.

I realise that hard work, good genetics and intelligent practices can take you a long way, but that path eventually ends, and I think it ends much sooner than many claim.

I think that many people have a false sense of what you can achieve naturally proliferated by the constant denial of AAS use by many impressively built men. People think, hey my mate Bob says his natural and he wouldn't lie to me because where best friends. He's been training 4 years and weighs 265 pounds at 5 foot 10 and is below 6% bf so if he can achieve that then anything is possible.

Look at the bodybuilders and pros from before AAS were around, are you going to tell me that training technique, diet and supplement advancements are responsible for every third guy at the gym these days looking better than the best bodybuilders of yesteryear......have a reality check people.

*I would like to invite members to submit images of what they consider to be the upper limit of a natural physic.

Also members may wish to submit an image and ask others opinions on whether the person depicted juices or not.

Looking forward to seeing if this generates much interest as it is of great interest to me.


(some sections of this post copied from a previous post of mine)

[Jfew44]

Vernon Gholston?

[mick86]

Vernon Gholston?

I assume you are joking, because if that guy isn't on the juice then he has muscle implants imo

[40plusnewbie]

I assume you are joking, because if that guy isn't on the juice then he has muscle implants imo

I'd believe he could be natural except for the forearms. That's the biggest streach IMO.

[kaberle_15]

Michael Lockett claims to be natural, I think it's a load of BS but there have to be some truely genetic freaks out there. I used to train with someone who was actually natural and looked like this guy but about 1/2 - 3/4 the size.

[CMPD213]

I have heard rumors i guess you could say about the slave owners breeding african americans to produce a better slave.. But i have noticed that although african americans do seem to get better builds quicker they usually lag when it comes to calves

[mick86]

Michael Lockett claims to be natural, I think it's a load of BS but there have to be some truely genetic freaks out there. I used to train with someone who was actually natural and looked like this guy but about 1/2 - 3/4 the size.

Well he hasn't sold me on that claim, looks like a juicer to me. I can't see hius lower half in that pic, but his bi's are suspiciously large.

[Jfew44]

I assume you are joking, because if that guy isn't on the juice then he has muscle implants imo

Not on the juice. He might be now (HGH), but that pic was taken when he played at Ohio State. He came out of high school benching 225 like 30-some times. Trust me, he spent alot of time on his diet and in the weight room. If he wasn't such a good football player and he juiced, he has the genetics to do anything.

[Almost Jacked 33]

Jeff Willet claims to be all natural and steroid free. What do yall think?

[mick86]

Jeff Willet claims to be all natural and steroid free. What do yall think?

That's a hard one to pick....though imo there is still a good chance that he does juice, I would be almost willing to accept that that could potentially be achieve naturally if genetics, discipline and consistent training ll came together.

[rykketid]

Jeff Willet claims to be all natural and steroid free. What do yall think?

In that case i think he may have found a way to manipulate genetics

[JiGGaMaN]

Problem is theres just some real freaks of nature out there. I know one personally with 19" arms natty...

[michael tyson]

Problem is theres just some real freaks of nature out there. I know one personally with 19" arms natty...

jiggaman, please tell me you are the guy in the picture. thats what i think when i read your posts

:crossfingers:

[JiGGaMaN]

jiggaman, please tell me you are the guy in the picture. thats what i think when i read your posts

:crossfingers:

Thats what i think when i write my posts lol. This is who it actually is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djDBs3yuDhk not far off from what i really look like.

[michael tyson]

holy strechmarks

[michael tyson]

definitely on the sauce

[mick86]

definitely on the sauce

OMG, so many replys in so little time.

Bahaha, saw my Avy and was like wtf, someone is impersonating me, I did not post that.

[SampsonandDelilah]

Is it me or do Mick 86 (OP) and Kchrist have the exact same avi


edit....you copied his avi into your post...disregard!


(was a quick look before I posted...oops)

[JiGGaMaN]

Is it me or do Mick 86 (OP) and Kchrist have the exact same avi


edit....you copied his avi into your post...disregard!


(was a quick look before I posted!)

woah, that just blew my mind.

[RapaciousShark]

And nowwwww your racially insensitive remark of the DAYYYY...

***applause***

God built the genetic roof a little higher for black dudes. I seriously believe this. All the black guys on my high school football team somehow put on more muscle than anyone else, even tho they were doing the same things as us crackaz.

It's lowest for cambodians.....

[MuscleScience]

And nowwwww your racially insensitive remark of the DAYYYY...

***applause***

God built the genetic roof a little higher for black dudes. I seriously believe this. All the black guys on my high school football team somehow put on more muscle than anyone else, even tho they were doing the same things as us crackaz.

It's lowest for cambodians.....

WOW, that is all kinds of wrong.

[JiGGaMaN]

WOW, that is all kinds of wrong.

Not entirely.

[MuscleScience]

Not entirely.

Thats not really what I meant.

Plus I probably understand genetics better than most on here. Believe it or not, when I was doing gene cloning and sequencing as my job I read a lot about genetics.....LOL

I have heard arguments on both sides, If you look even further in the literature you will find lots of papers about how northern europeans have some increased lower back strengths and endurance. Which supposedly accounts for why they tend to win strongman competitions. I think both arguments are pure bull crap, these studies do not deal with or account for all kinds of mitigation factors that can have a cause on the outcome of the study. Also most of the scientist in these studies do not conclude that this race or that race has a advantage or disadvantage in one thing or another. In fact most geneticist do not believe there is a genetic bases for race. Its merely varying degrees of genetic alleles being expressed based on environmental and or selective factors.

[JiGGaMaN]

WOW, that is all kinds of wrong.

You can start here http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...4ad7acb7b39238

theres plenty more out there.

[RapaciousShark]

You can start here http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...4ad7acb7b39238

theres plenty more out there.

I want to be black

[SampsonandDelilah]

You can start here http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...4ad7acb7b39238

theres plenty more out there.

You know I've read some studies along the same lines...it's feels taboo to talk about it, because no one wants to sound racist...but bottom line, there are studies out there to draw those conclusions.

drawing on taboo...I would like to clarify that I am not racist...just commenting to a point that was brought up in the forum.

There is also literature out there to suggest that some of the natural size accomplishments of some african american men and woman can be dated back to selective slave breeding (this sounds awful as Im typing it). But the facts are that there were slave farms in the 1800's that would bring in the biggest, fastest and strongest of slaves and in turn breed them for selectivity, that drawn with the science may answer some of the questions of some of the reasons why we see many african americans that are genetically superior (aside from the hard work, dedication and time spent training) not to say that there aren't plenty of caucasian freaks of nature out there as well (take a stroll through central Iowa or Nebraska). But wanted to throw that in there since it was being discussed

[RapaciousShark]

You know I've read some studies along the same lines...it's feels taboo to talk about it, because no one wants to sound racist...but bottom line, there are studies out there to draw those conclusions.

drawing on taboo...I would like to clarify that I am not racist...just commenting to a point that was brought up in the forum.

There is also literature out there to suggest that some of the natural size accomplishments of some african american men and woman can be dated back to selective slave breeding (this sounds awful as Im typing it). But the facts are that there were slave farms in the 1800's that would bring in the biggest, fastest and strongest of slaves and in turn breed them for selectivity, that drawn with the science may answer some of the questions of some of the reasons why we see many african americans that are genetically superior (aside from the hard work, dedication and time spent training) not to say that there aren't plenty of caucasian freaks of nature out there as well (take a stroll through central Iowa or Nebraska). But wanted to throw that in there since it was being discussed

That is just plain possible. In the Antebellum period of American histrory the slave population of the southern states was three times that of whites, and you better believe they practiced eugenics, just like man has been doing with canines for the past few thousand years. I mean, look at the variation and selectivity achieved in dog breeds as a direct result of selective breeding. I'm not racist either, but I know blacks were treated just like dogs and so i wonder. My point is, micro*********ary forces are at work in us just like other animals, or else there wouldn't be race differences to begin with.

There are only two problems with the theory tho:

1) There were only a couple centuries worth of time to crank out a bigger, stronger breed of human, and

2) I doubt slave masters had as much control over the mating choices of their slaves.

I'd be interested in seeing a scientific comparison of the body mass and endocrinological differences between blacks of american heritage and those from, say, Ghana or Togo (somewhere on the west coast where the slave trade was focused).

[RapaciousShark]

....

[SampsonandDelilah]

DUDE....that lady is scary!! Natty my arse!!

[vishus]

DUDE....that lady is scary!! Natty my arse!!

what picture are you looking at? that girl is H-O-T bro!! haha just kiddin, i wonder how old she is? ide definitely be wearin the skirt if i was with her haha

[RapaciousShark]

DUDE....that lady is scary!! Natty my arse!!

This is my point with that pic. There's no way to accurately judge these days because even the "legit" pro athletes of football, baseball, etc. are on juice and getting away with it. That's not to say Gholston's not natural.

I think what you have to do is look at pro bodybuilders before steroids were so accessible. Once you see that, imagine it 10% bigger for modern day supps, and I think you have the right picture...

[SampsonandDelilah]

I cant quit looking at that chick!! She's mesmerizing...look at the elbows on her.

Scared, but fascinated!
She gives a whole new meaning to the term "ground and pound"

[mick86]

....

For her sake I hope that is photo shopped

[mick86]

As for all of the talk of black guys having better genetics, I have seen evidence of that amongst my friends too. Whether or not they are natural is a separate issue, but either way they do seem get better results than us white guys.

[Bjohnson]

It only takes a few generations to breed a totally different type of dog. The Germans created a bunch on new breeds a couple centuries back(doberman, weimeriener, etc)

Not saying its the only or main reason but to say it isn't a factor would be silly. Ive met a lot of Africa Africans and seen many on tv. Not many of these dudes are big, in fact, most are slim if anything. Don't really seem to made out of the same stuff as the ones in the new world.(thats metaphorical) Its unfortunate we are all a little freaked to discuss it, none of us had anything to do with it. It is what it is at this point.
And aren't we a little overdue for some old white dude to try to explain something like this during halftime to a horrified audience and destroy his career?

[RapaciousShark]

well, we hijacked micks thread with this afrononsense. Let's see some suspected naturals like in post 15....

[RapaciousShark]

http://www.sandowmuseum.com/

[SampsonandDelilah]

Sorry for the !

Was not suprised to see the topic moved!

Back to the OP


Rob Hope...natty

[Chode Logan]

I havn't read the sciene article yet, I'll get on that. I thought it was common knowledge that black guys have more testosterone and can produce muscle better than white folk? Generally speaking of course, not everyone. I think I was taught that in high school.

[novastepp]