Am i racist or is it something else??

**Matt** · 04-17-2009, 11:18 AM

I love to watch these documentries on tv that follow the US and UK armed forces into Iraq and Afganistan. Ive always had this interest, maybe its because ive spent a number of years in the forces.

Anyway i watched one the other day that showed how some insurgents in Iraq fight back. I say insurgents but i believe alot of these people are just like you and me, fighting because they dont want their country occupied by a foreign force..

In this documentry there were four scense that stick in my mind and my feelings when watching them are very different.

Scene one is where an American soldier is tood on gaurd at the rear of an apc (armoured personnel carrier) and is shot by an Iraqi sniper.
Scene two was where an American apc was blown to bits by a large road side bomb.
Both these scenes fill me with anger and rage and im horrified when i watch them, even though im not American, never been there and have know real ties there....

Scene three is of an Iraqi who has an rpg on his shoulder, he runs out into the middle of the road looks back to make sure the camera is still on him but before he has chance to take aim 4 or 5 tracer rounds hit him in the head killing him.
Scene four showers a group of Iraqi's being gunned down by an American helicopter...
This time i feel great when watching these last two scenes, even though i dont know them and who knows if their fighting a good cause, i dont care.

Am i alone or does anyone else feel like this when watching these types of things??

Or am i just racist and didnt know it??

**southmadejd** · 04-17-2009, 11:32 AM

Bro, I would not consider you a racist, but I also served in the Marine Corps and served two tours in Iraq so maybe I am not the best one to respond to this. But I feel the same way you do when you watch those specials, any time I see coalition forces kicking ass I get a sense of pride and any time I see a sniper taking one of us out, I get enraged and pissed off.

But one of your earlier statements is true for the most part, the people we are fighting are just like you and me. And it is hard for me to say that because I lost some close friends over there but I am sure that if it were under different circumstances and we all were hanging out in a bar, we would probably get along just great. War is a truly bizarre thing.

**MuscleScience** · 04-17-2009, 11:34 AM

This should be a fun thread to read.

***D7M*** · 04-17-2009, 11:42 AM

Originally Posted by MuscleScience

This should be a fun thread to read.

ditto.

Where's Buffedguy?

**Matt** · 04-17-2009, 11:43 AM

Originally Posted by MuscleScience

This should be a fun thread to read.

I had a feeling you might say that lol, i know your not keen on these threads...

**Flagg** · 04-17-2009, 11:50 AM

Originally Posted by MAD MATT

I love to watch these documentries on tv that follow the US and UK armed forces into Iraq and Afganistan. Ive always had this interest, maybe its because ive spent a number of years in the forces.

Anyway i watched one the other day that showed how some insurgents in Iraq fight back. I say insurgents but i believe alot of these people are just like you and me, fighting because they dont want their country occupied by a foreign force..

In this documentry there were four scense that stick in my mind and my feelings when watching them are very different.

Scene one is where an American soldier is tood on gaurd at the rear of an apc (armoured personnel carrier) and is shot by an Iraqi sniper.
Scene two was where an American apc was blown to bits by a large road side bomb.
Both these scenes fill me with anger and rage and im horrified when i watch them, even though im not American, never been there and have know real ties there....

Scene three is of an Iraqi who has an rpg on his shoulder, he runs out into the middle of the road looks back to make sure the camera is still on him but before he has chance to take aim 4 or 5 tracer rounds hit him in the head killing him.
Scene four showers a group of Iraqi's being gunned down by an American helicopter...
This time i feel great when watching these last two scenes, even though i dont know them and who knows if their fighting a good cause, i dont care.

Am i alone or does anyone else feel like this when watching these types of things??

Or am i just racist and didnt know it??

Well, were the four Iraqis insurgents or innocent civilians? And if you're feeling rage it's because you are seeing American soldiers being shot and killed. American and British can be considered the same seeing as they often work together.

If anything, if you are angry at Iraqi snipers shooting American soldiers, don't be mad at the Iraqi sniper..be angry at the politician that sent that soldier there in the first place.

And then, ask yourself why the sniper is shooting at soldiers. Let's just say China or Russia started bombing England flat, and then after that decided to occupy England and NO ONE did anything to stop this. How would you feel? How would you feel if you knew a plane had destroyed your home, your family...would you not want retribution? And that China and Russia were telling the world "Oh we're only doing this because we believed England MIGHT have wanted to nuke us".

This is all about putting yourself in other peoples shoes. And the whole thing in Iraq and Afghanastan is truly a shitty thing.

EDIT: Just one final point. I think you can only be angry at Iraqis retaliating if you think the US and the UK being in Iraq is a good thing. Because if you dont think its a good thing, well then I dont think anyone has the right to be angry at retaliation.

**MuscleScience** · 04-17-2009, 12:01 PM

Originally Posted by MAD MATT

I had a feeling you might say that lol, i know your not keen on these threads...

Im all for intelligent debate, racism is just sticky thing to talk about.

**Matt** · 04-17-2009, 12:02 PM

Originally Posted by Flagg

Well, were the four Iraqis insurgents or innocent civilians? And if you're feeling rage it's because you are seeing American soldiers being shot and killed. American and British can be considered the same seeing as they often work together.

If anything, if you are angry at Iraqi snipers shooting American soldiers, don't be mad at the Iraqi sniper..be angry at the politician that sent that soldier there in the first place.

And then, ask yourself why the sniper is shooting at soldiers. Let's just say China or Russia started bombing England flat, and then after that decided to occupy England and NO ONE did anything to stop this. How would you feel? How would you feel if you knew a plane had destroyed your home, your family...would you not want retribution? And that China and Russia were telling the world "Oh we're only doing this because we believed England MIGHT have wanted to nuke us".

This is all about putting yourself in other peoples shoes. And the whole thing in Iraq and Afghanastan is truly a shitty thing.

EDIT: Just one final point. I think you can only be angry at Iraqis retaliating if you think the US and the UK being in Iraq is a good thing. Because if you dont think its a good thing, well then I dont think anyone has the right to be angry at retaliation.

This is the problem i have lol, i dont believe we should have gone to Iraq, and yes i understand that some of these people maybe good people just fighting like i would if someone came into my country. But this doesnt change the way i feel, this in turn makes me question whether or not im a racist. However if i see a black american or Brit being killed then i have the same anger.
Is it possible to be racist towards certain countries??

**Matt** · 04-17-2009, 12:04 PM

Originally Posted by MuscleScience

Im all for intelligent debate, racism is just sticky thing to talk about.

Trust me this is like super intelligent for me.

Btw, although i didnt agree with us going into Iraq, i do agree with us being in Afganistan...

**Flagg** · 04-17-2009, 12:13 PM

Originally Posted by MAD MATT

This is the problem i have lol, i dont believe we should have gone to Iraq, and yes i understand that some of these people maybe good people just fighting like i would if someone came into my country. But this doesnt change the way i feel, this in turn makes me question whether or not im a racist. However if i see a black american or Brit being killed then i have the same anger.
Is it possible to be racist towards certain countries??

I'd put that down to the media and the government indocritinating us that Muslims are evil and are a threat to democracy.

**CptAmericaX** · 04-17-2009, 12:17 PM

Just because I was wrong

**MASTER** · 04-17-2009, 12:22 PM

Not racist, you will always want your own to be safe or win, whatever the scenario. I agree we shouldn't be in Iraq though, all these people getting killed for trying to protect their sovereignty/land/lives. If England got invaded (especially if it was for no reason as in the case of Iraq), you can bet your house that we'd be taking as many of the invaders down as possible. It kind of reminds me of that eye to eye poem by a palestinian girl "im terrorized in my own land, and im the terrorist?"

**Andro9** · 04-17-2009, 12:23 PM

Originally Posted by CptAmericaX

Fuk them ragheads

hahaha. i knew someone was going to say that. anyway, i'm not one to believe in religion or god or whatever and it pisses me off to see these muslims give there life to take ours thinking they will be rewarded for it in the afterlife. does anyone else have a problem with this? because it bugs the shit out of me. makes me want to go over there and rip some throats out.

**scerpico22** · 04-17-2009, 12:36 PM

well i also believe we have no business in Iraq, noow that I have said that...

I completely understand what you are saying MATT...I feel the same way. And IMO, MASTER is on the right track. Regardless of the reason right or wrong of us being there, I know im cheering for the guys that are out there and hope for their well being and safety. So...if one of them gets killed by an Iraqi then i am pist and I want one of us to take 10 of them out...

its almost as if its a competitive feeling...we are there to win...win what is the DIRTY, DIRTY question. but we are there to win non-the-less. and yes the media plays up this hype as us vs. them attitude so it turns into, if one of ours dies, we are mad...one of theirs dies...score one for the good side.

not sure if all this made sense...

oh yea and Matt, what the hell are you doing posting something serious???? LOL

**Nooomoto** · 04-17-2009, 12:41 PM

Originally Posted by CptAmericaX

Fuk them ragheads

Exactly. They don't contribute a thing to the modern world. They murder people, women, children, girls under Sharia law, they try to infiltrate western societies and bring that BS in, and get pissy when the laws of these societies say otherwise.

They don't wanna get shot? Don't pick up a gun and don't plant an IED. Don't wanna get run over? Get the fk out of the way of the hum-vees barreling down the street. Don't want to get interrogated? Quit hanging out with HVTs.

Fact is most of those people getting chopped down by 5.56 and vulcan cannons aren't even Iraqis. A good number of them are just there to start trouble, well they found it. Am I going to cry because some hadj on the other side of the world got his shit pushed in? Nope. Neither should you.

**CptAmericaX** · 04-17-2009, 12:42 PM

Just because I was wrong, not sure why I posted this one probaly just the anger

**Andro9** · 04-17-2009, 12:45 PM

Originally Posted by CptAmericaX

I enjoy both theaters I get a chance to kill another man, you think gear is a rush wait until you take anothers life

i think you have problems brother hahaha

**CptAmericaX** · 04-17-2009, 12:47 PM

Just because I was wrong

**scerpico22** · 04-17-2009, 12:57 PM

Originally Posted by CptAmericaX

its human nature to kill

kill other human beings? ummmmm, i think not! Kill an animal to survive sure...but what you are insinuating is down right stupid!

**CptAmericaX** · 04-17-2009, 01:01 PM

Just because I was wrong

**scerpico22** · 04-17-2009, 01:03 PM

Originally Posted by CptAmericaX

ehhh are u kidding me, humans have been killing humans for 1000's of years over territory

no shit Sherlock, but that does NOT be any means make it human nature.

**CptAmericaX** · 04-17-2009, 01:04 PM

Just because I was wrong

**CptAmericaX** · 04-17-2009, 01:06 PM

"It is scientifically incorrect to say that we have inherited a tendency to make war from our animal ancestors … that war or any other violent behaviour is genetically programmed into our human nature … [and] that humans have a 'violent brain'."

well acording to that guy your right maybe im just one of the lucky ones

**scerpico22** · 04-17-2009, 01:06 PM

Originally Posted by CptAmericaX

calm down Im sorry violence upsets you so much so people enjoy it, Im not talking about tortue or murder for that matter, but war is a beautiful and ugly thing all in the same, such a beautiful art

you sir and well i take the sir back because you are wet behind the ears 22 year old...are a fvcktard...

have a nice day now and go play tie the tubes with the wifey

**Nooomoto** · 04-17-2009, 01:08 PM

In the context of war, killing isn't a big deal. It's more business than anything else.

**CptAmericaX** · 04-17-2009, 01:08 PM

Originally Posted by scerpico22

you sir and well i take the sir back because you are wet behind the ears 22 year old...are a fvcktard...

have a nice day now and go play tie the tubes with the wifey

What ever helps you sleep at night champ, I will play tie the tubes with my wifey when I get home fighting for your freedom sleep well my friend

**CptAmericaX** · 04-17-2009, 01:09 PM

Originally Posted by Nooomoto

In the context of war, killing isn't a big deal. It's more business than anything else.

as they said in man on fire

I am a professional

Or in "Taken"
Im sorry Its just buisness

**Matt** · 04-17-2009, 01:10 PM

Originally Posted by scerpico22

well i also believe we have no business in Iraq, noow that I have said that...

I completely understand what you are saying MATT...I feel the same way. And IMO, MASTER is on the right track. Regardless of the reason right or wrong of us being there, I know im cheering for the guys that are out there and hope for their well being and safety. So...if one of them gets killed by an Iraqi then i am pist and I want one of us to take 10 of them out...

its almost as if its a competitive feeling...we are there to win...win what is the DIRTY, DIRTY question. but we are there to win non-the-less. and yes the media plays up this hype as us vs. them attitude so it turns into, if one of ours dies, we are mad...one of theirs dies...score one for the good side.

not sure if all this made sense...

oh yea and Matt, what the hell are you doing posting something serious???? LOL

I think you and Master are right bro, i dont know how you guy's feel about Afganistan but im almost certain we should be there....

Hahaha, its the most serious ive been in years lol, i had to sit down and rest my head after i wrote it..
I think its the longest post ive ever written aswell...

**scerpico22** · 04-17-2009, 01:11 PM

Originally Posted by Nooomoto

In the context of war, killing isn't a big deal. It's more business than anything else.

agreed...killing is part of war, i was pointing out that killing is not of human nature

**scerpico22** · 04-17-2009, 01:13 PM

Originally Posted by CptAmericaX

as they said in man on fire

I am a professional

Or in "Taken"
Im sorry Its just buisness

ummm yeah I get the whole war and killing thing there pal...but for you to suggest that killing is of human nature because humans have killed each other for 1000's of years...

get the head checked son...you need it

**CptAmericaX** · 04-17-2009, 01:14 PM

Originally Posted by scerpico22

agreed...killing is part of war, i was pointing out that killing is not of human nature

hence my post admitting you were right? so calm down take a chill pill and enjoy the show

**CptAmericaX** · 04-17-2009, 01:16 PM

Yah let me go cry PTSD like so many others, yes before I get a bunch of whiney people who have friends with it I know there are some seriouse cases I do infact have friends who are F*ed from this same very war i fight in. But alot of people are just weak minded *****s and need to go cry on a shrinks shoulder for a week and they will be fine

**Matt** · 04-17-2009, 01:21 PM

Originally Posted by CptAmericaX

as they said in man on fire

I am a professional

Or in "Taken"
Im sorry Its just buisness

To a degree i understand where your coming from. I was very young when i joined the army and i joined as an infantry soldier, i had no trade. Being an infantry soldier you have two main tasks, to walk and kill and to be honest i wanted to kill....

However ive grown up alittle since then and when i look back i think " what a prick i was". I think its an age thing and i believe in years to come you will understand that...
A friend of mine once said that if they made it law that you had to be over the age of 40 before you could join the armed forces, there would be no armies........

**CptAmericaX** · 04-17-2009, 01:24 PM

Matt you might wanna rest your head for a second that 2 was a pretty deep post and is very true, hmm imagine that, what am I young army and infantry explains alot doesnt it

**BgMc31** · 04-17-2009, 01:39 PM

Anybody who brags about killing another person probably haven't done so. My father was a sniper in Vietnam (LRRP attached to 82nd airborne), was the battalion commander of the 1st Armored Division for the 1st Persian Gulf War, plus a veteran of many skirmishes around the world, my father-in-law was a Marine in Vietnam, I good friend of mine is a Spec Ops soldier currently serving his 3rd tour in Afganistan and has served 3 tours in Iran, not to mention some of the thugs who've worked for less than desirable people who take care of people, none of whom brag about killing others. That's just what they do and they get paid for it. It's part of the job.

It reminds of me of these fake ass gangster rappers who claim to be drug dealers and killers and it turns out that they are rapping about someone else's life. Pathetic!!

Anyone, back to the original question. You aren't racist brotha. Racism implies that you feel superior to the opposing force, group, etc. From what I've read from your original posts, it doesn't seem that you feel that you are superior, you are just going for 'your side'. Nothing wrong with that.

Now some of the other comments from the wannabe toughguys, those could be construed as racists.

**quarry206** · 04-17-2009, 01:42 PM

Originally Posted by scerpico22

agreed...killing is part of war, i was pointing out that killing is not of human nature

not to start a debate on this.. but i think killing and voilience is human nature. i mean why else do you think we like the hardest hitters in sports, when we are angry we fight. and when all else fails and anger takes over we kill in moments of passion..

killing is a natural thing. but we as human do not kill a fellow man to raise us above the animals we may or may not have come from... humans don't mind killing. but we don't like killing something that is common to us. thats why for 99% of america killing a dog seems so evil, because we all picture a pet dog.

If i said a homeless man died nobody would really care on here, yet if i said my mom died people would care. because we aren't homeless so we have no connection to them, but we all have mothers so we fear the pain...most all killing in war is done from a distance and also to a person not looking like them. where there is no connection to that person, can't even talk to them nor do western people understand their live style. so we have no connect really as humans to them, so seeing it we think less of then seeing somebody that looks like us die..

voilience is a part of every human, its just we surpress it to be better as a group. that is why PTSD in non-combat MOS's is so high because this war has put non combat arms soilders in combat and has made people not trained to kill have to use their basic sense of survival and kill another person that they were never trained to do then come back from it to live normal..

**MASTER** · 04-17-2009, 01:44 PM

Originally Posted by MAD MATT

To a degree i understand where your coming from. I was very young when i joined the army and i joined as an infantry soldier, i had no trade. Being an infantry soldier you have two main tasks, to walk and kill and to be honest i wanted to kill....

However ive grown up alittle since then and when i look back i think " what a prick i was". I think its an age thing and i believe in years to come you will understand that...
A friend of mine once said that if they made it law that you had to be over the age of 40 before you could join the armed forces, there would be no armies........

Most definately - and if people joining the army genuinely wanted peace then they wouldn't join in the first place. The classic quote comes to mind = fighting for peace is like fvcking for virginity.

**CptAmericaX** · 04-17-2009, 01:51 PM

Originally Posted by BgMc31

Anybody who brags about killing another person probably haven't done so. My father was a sniper in Vietnam (LRRP attached to 82nd airborne), was the battalion commander of the 1st Armored Division for the 1st Persian Gulf War, plus a veteran of many skirmishes around the world, my father-in-law was a Marine in Vietnam, I good friend of mine is a Spec Ops soldier currently serving his 3rd tour in Afganistan and has served 3 tours in Iran, not to mention some of the thugs who've worked for less than desirable people who take care of people, none of whom brag about killing others. That's just what they do and they get paid for it. It's part of the job.

It reminds of me of these fake ass gangster rappers who claim to be drug dealers and killers and it turns out that they are rapping about someone else's life. Pathetic!!

Anyone, back to the original question. You aren't racist brotha. Racism implies that you feel superior to the opposing force, group, etc. From what I've read from your original posts, it doesn't seem that you feel that you are superior, you are just going for 'your side'. Nothing wrong with that.

Now some of the other comments from the wannabe toughguys, those could be construed as racists.

whos bragging? I didnt say if I had even shot my weapon or not did I, and if you think people in the infantry dont brag among eachother about kills you have obviously never served, or maybe you have and sat behind a desk Im just putting it out there. People who are in war type situations usualy dont talk to people who can not relate to them about it because its something they would never understand

**BgMc31** · 04-17-2009, 02:03 PM

Originally Posted by CptAmericaX

I enjoy both theaters I get a chance to kill another man, you think gear is a rush wait until you take anothers life

Originally Posted by CptAmericaX

whos bragging? I didnt say if I had even shot my weapon or not did I, and if you think people in the infantry dont brag among eachother about kills you have obviously never served, or maybe you have and sat behind a desk Im just putting it out there. People who are in war type situations usualy dont talk to people who can not relate to them about it because its something they would never understand

That's not bragging? And you aren't talking to people who have served (for the most part). I do understand that military people talk about their activities amongst each other, but obviously you aren't among your fellow soldiers or Marines here.

**tyward** · 04-17-2009, 02:07 PM

Very interesting thread. I agree on going in to Afganistan, but I don't agree on staying. It's too morally problematic occupying a culture so different than our own, I doubt that we could ever determine what a win would look like. And Iraq has never been about my freedom and never will be. My problem is even deeper. If I read/see/hear about a person being injured or killed I feel bad, but if I read/see/hear about an animal injured or killed I completely lose it... Talk about moral relativism.