Senate to vote on NATIONAL Right-To-Carry Reciprocity, Call Your Senator!

**thegodfather** · 07-22-2009, 11:30 PM

U.S. Senate To Vote On National Right-To-Carry Reciprocity Amendment Early This Week

(This is not a News article, it is a document written by the NRA to take action)

Contact Your U.S. Senators TODAY And Urge Them To Support Your Right To Self-Defense by voting YES on the Thune-Vitter Amendment!

The U.S. Senate is now considering the National Defense Authorization Act (S. 1390). As a part of the consideration of that legislation, Senators John Thune (R-SD) and David Vitter (R-LA) will offer an amendment this week to provide for interstate recognition of Right-to-Carry permits. There is a very high likelihood of a Senate floor vote on this important and timely pro-gun reform between now and Wednesday.

Now is the time for Congress to recognize that the right to self-defense does not end at state lines. Under the Thune-Vitter amendment, an individual who has met the requirements for a carry permit, or who is otherwise allowed by his home state's state law to carry a firearm, would be authorized to carry a firearm for protection in any other state that issues such permits, subject to the laws of the state in which the firearm is carried.

Contrary to "states' rights" claims from opponents who usually favor sweeping federal gun control, the amendment is a legitimate exercise of Congress's constitutional power to protect the fundamental rights of citizens (including the right to keep and bear arms and the right of personal mobility). States would still have the authority to regulate the time, place and manner in which handguns are carried.

Expanding Right-to-Carry will enhance public safety, and certainly poses no threat to the public. Criminals are deterred from attempting crimes when they know or suspect that their prospective victims are armed. A study for the Department of Justice found that 40 percent of felons had not committed crimes because they feared the prospective victims were armed. The Thune-Vitter amendment recognizes that competent, responsible, law-abiding Americans still deserve our trust and confidence when they cross state lines. Passing interstate Right-to-Carry legislation will help further reduce crime by deterring criminals, and -- most important of all -- will protect the right of honest Americans to protect themselves if deterrence fails.

The Thune-Vitter Amendment represents a giant step forward in the protection of the basic right to self-defense. Its passage will recognize that the rights of law-abiding Right-to-Carry permit holders should be respected, even when they travel outside their home state.

Gun control groups, including New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg's "Mayors Against Illegal Guns" are running ads trying to scare your lawmakers and the American people into opposing this crucial Right-to-Carry reform. It is critical that your U.S. Senators hear from you immediately.

Please be sure to contact both of your U.S. Senators today, and urge them to cosponsor and support the Thune-Vitter interstate right to carry recipocity amendment. E-mail and call them immediately!
To find contact information for your U.S. Senators, please click here, or call (202) 224-3121.

I know we have a lot of gun enthusiasts on here. This is huge in ensuring our Constitutional right is protected! So please if you guys on here who share my respect for the 2nd amendment, e-mail/call your local Senator and urge them to Vote YES for this legislation!

**Hoggage_54** · 07-22-2009, 11:32 PM

**DOM6** · 07-23-2009, 12:27 AM

im never outa state so im good

**cfiler** · 07-23-2009, 12:31 AM

Boy you Americans have politicians who are trying to ban concealed firearms, and create a national healthcare... trying to copy us Canadians I guess?

Seriously though, I'm not American, but I would do anything to help protect your rights.

**cfiler** · 07-23-2009, 12:33 AM

Originally Posted by Hoggage_54

I love chicks who appreciate firearms, and love chicks who drive trucks. (real pick-ups, not suvs or vans)

Nothing hotter than a chick with a 1/2 ton PU with a gun rack.
Yee haw!
MMM... sexy cowgirls...

**paulzane** · 07-23-2009, 01:16 AM

Why are you Yanks obsessed with firearms? Us Brits don't need guns to kill people

**Hunter** · 07-23-2009, 01:20 AM

Originally Posted by paulzane

Why are you Yanks obsessed with firearms? Us Brits don't need guns to kill people

Many people as do I, feel its our right to own and carry firearms. Thats my opinion on it anyways I am sure other americans feel differently about it. I am a lifetime member of the nra same as my father was.

**thegodfather** · 07-23-2009, 01:38 AM

Originally Posted by paulzane

Why are you Yanks obsessed with firearms? Us Brits don't need guns to kill people

We're not obsessed with firearms. We are adamant about our god given Constitutionally protected right to defend ourselves. It just so happens that the most widely used and efficient means of self protection is via firearms.

**paulzane** · 07-23-2009, 03:39 AM

Originally Posted by thegodfather

We're not obsessed with firearms. We are adamant about our god given Constitutionally protected right to defend ourselves. It just so happens that the most widely used and efficient means of self protection is via firearms.

Ah yes ..... you are just brainwashed differently to us!

**JiGGaMaN** · 07-23-2009, 04:42 AM

yeah like someones going to break into your house while you are in another state. godamn, as if the country has nothing better to worry about. waste of time.

**vpchill** · 07-23-2009, 07:40 AM

I dont agree with this Bill.. Too many people are not mature enough to handle the responsibility of carrying weapons across state lines.
If we want the Wild west back then be my guest. All each person would be doing is trying to buy more guns than their neighbor. Guns dont kill people, People kill people. Rather than try to arm the entire country and every half bit fool, How about we focus on the illegal gun trade and get those who should not have weapons dealt with and the sellers made to justify their ignorance for selling 45 guns to a college student.

You should have to jump through hoops to own a gun in my opinion. Too many people who have no brain own guns legally and illegally.

**Iron_Pig** · 07-23-2009, 08:49 AM

Originally Posted by vpchill

I dont agree with this Bill.. Too many people are not mature enough to handle the responsibility of carrying weapons across state lines.
If we want the Wild west back then be my guest. All each person would be doing is trying to buy more guns than their neighbor. Guns dont kill people, People kill people. Rather than try to arm the entire country and every half bit fool, How about we focus on the illegal gun trade and get those who should not have weapons dealt with and the sellers made to justify their ignorance for selling 45 guns to a college student.

You should have to jump through hoops to own a gun in my opinion. Too many people who have no brain own guns legally and illegally.

Giddyup cowboy cant wait for the gun fights in the streets

**Matt** · 07-23-2009, 09:07 AM

Where i come from if the box of toys want a read and write we dont need the runs...

For those that dont understand that..

Where i come from if the boys want a fight we dont need guns...

**SMCengineer** · 07-23-2009, 09:09 AM

A few to things to note; the bill was already voted on in the Senate: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFqsV...layer_embedded. It failed by two votes. While I fully agree with the intentions of the bill, I'm not sure I support it. It seems to be contradictory in nature. It strengthens the second amendment while simultaneously weakening the tenth. As much as I despise a politician dictating who can and can't own a firearm, I despise with even more contempt increasing federal control over states. I think this would open the door for increased federal gun control nation wide.

**J-Dogg** · 07-23-2009, 09:24 AM

Perfect, just what we need, everyone having a gun in their pocket.

The constitution was written in the late 1700's. Not many people had 20 shot, semi automatic hand guns then. They might have written it a little different if they could see in the future.

**thegodfather** · 07-23-2009, 09:34 AM

Originally Posted by Blome

A few to things to note; the bill was already voted on in the Senate: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFqsV...layer_embedded. It failed by two votes. While I fully agree with the intentions of the bill, I'm not sure I support it. It seems to be contradictory in nature. It strengthens the second amendment while simultaneously weakening the tenth. As much as I despise a politician dictating who can and can't own a firearm, I despise with even more contempt increasing federal control over states. I think this would open the door for increased federal gun control nation wide.

That is only one side of the coin. On the other hand, you can view it as a civil liberties issue. The 2nd amendment can be incorporated onto the states via the 14th Amendment. The Bill of Rights supercedes all State laws, because once you cross state lines you do not lose your right to Freedom of Speech(1st Amendment), your right to the writ of Habeas Corpus(Article I), or your right against Unlawful Search&Seisure(4th Amendment). There is a standard, via the Bill of Rights, which every citizen of the United States is entitled to, regardless of State lines. They are in essence rights which no State can violate. Because the 2nd Amendment is in the same document as these other rights, it makes no sense then, that the 2nd Amendment should not be protected from the States like the rest of the amendments. The 14th amendment would allow the 2nd Amendment to be fully incorporated onto the states.

**thegodfather** · 07-23-2009, 09:45 AM

Originally Posted by vpchill

I dont agree with this Bill.. Too many people are not mature enough to handle the responsibility of carrying weapons across state lines.
If we want the Wild west back then be my guest. All each person would be doing is trying to buy more guns than their neighbor. Guns dont kill people, People kill people. Rather than try to arm the entire country and every half bit fool, How about we focus on the illegal gun trade and get those who should not have weapons dealt with and the sellers made to justify their ignorance for selling 45 guns to a college student.

You should have to jump through hoops to own a gun in my opinion. Too many people who have no brain own guns legally and illegally.

Well that is certainly a biased, uneducated, and un researched opinion that you hold. That has continuously been an argument from the left against pro gun bills. However, the numbers do not agree with you, at all. 20 years ago only around 10 states issued conceal&carry permits, today 40 states issue them to their citizens. In every state, only around 1% of the population make the choice to obtain a conceal&carry permit, dispelling the unsubstantiated myth that "everyone will be carrying a gun."

In addition, statistically, conceal&carry permit holders are 3x less likely to commit a violent crime, than a person who does not possess a conceal&carry permit. Florida has issued the most CCW permits than any other state in the country, 1.5 million of its citizens choose to CCW, and in the time they have issued these permits, only 169 people have committed a gun crime who possess a CCW. That is less than 1%, a statistical non-point.

This bill does not give gun owners any "extra" rights. It simply would allow their Constitutionally protected right of self defense to apply in every state. Just as your 1st amendment rights to freedom of speech apply wherever you are in the country, and cannot be infringed by State laws. Just as your right against unlawful search&seizure through the 4th amendment apply wherever you are in the country.

Additionally, States which have instituted Shall Issue CCW permits, have seen violent crime rates which were ABOVE the national average fall below the national average. 99% of gun crimes are not committed by people who lawfully obtained their weapons, statistically CCW holders are among the most law abiding, most responsible citizens. While gun deaths account for a few thousand deaths per year in this country, the FBI has estimated that guns save between 1.5 - 2 million lives per year, and often without a shot having been fired.

You did hit on a key point at the end of your post, we do need to enforce the laws we already have on the books to stop guns from being owned by criminals. We do not need new laws to further regulate guns, because we don't currently enforce the ones we have now.

The argument that the Constitution was written in the 1700's is a red herring. The Constitution is a timeless document, with principles that still apply today, it is every bit as relevant today as it was then. The founders understood the need for an armed populace, a disarmed populace has no final recourse against an oppressive government. The 2nd Amendment was never instituted for "sportsmen and hunters" as President Obama seems to think. It first and foremost was the populations last resort against tyranny, and as a means of self defense. When seconds count, the police are only minutes away.

**vpchill** · 07-23-2009, 09:58 AM

Originally Posted by thegodfather

Well that is certainly a biased, uneducated, and un researched opinion that you hold. That has continuously been an argument from the left against pro gun bills. However, the numbers do not agree with you, at all. 20 years ago only around 10 states issued conceal&carry permits, today 40 states issue them to their citizens. In every state, only around 1% of the population make the choice to obtain a conceal&carry permit, dispelling the unsubstantiated myth that "everyone will be carrying a gun."

In addition, statistically, conceal&carry permit holders are 3x less likely to commit a violent crime, than a person who does not possess a conceal&carry permit. Florida has issued the most CCW permits than any other state in the country, 1.5 million of its citizens choose to CCW, and in the time they have issued these permits, only 169 people have committed a gun crime who possess a CCW. That is less than 1%, a statistical non-point.

This bill does not give gun owners any "extra" rights. It simply would allow their Constitutionally protected right of self defense to apply in every state. Just as your 1st amendment rights to freedom of speech apply wherever you are in the country, and cannot be infringed by State laws. Just as your right against unlawful search&seizure through the 4th amendment apply wherever you are in the country.

Additionally, States which have instituted Shall Issue CCW permits, have seen violent crime rates which were ABOVE the national average fall below the national average. 99% of gun crimes are not committed by people who lawfully obtained their weapons, statistically CCW holders are among the most law abiding, most responsible citizens. While gun deaths account for a few thousand deaths per year in this country, the FBI has estimated that guns save between 1.5 - 2 million lives per year, and often without a shot having been fired.

You did hit on a key point at the end of your post, we do need to enforce the laws we already have on the books to stop guns from being owned by criminals. We do not need new laws to further regulate guns, because we don't currently enforce the ones we have now.

The argument that the Constitution was written in the 1700's is a red herring. The Constitution is a timeless document, with principles that still apply today, it is every bit as relevant today as it was then. The founders understood the need for an armed populace, a disarmed populace has no final recourse against an oppressive government. The 2nd Amendment was never instituted for "sportsmen and hunters" as President Obama seems to think. It first and foremost was the populations last resort against tyranny, and as a means of self defense. When seconds count, the police are only minutes away.

Here you go again insulting my intelligence and throwing your numbers from Books around. I speak from actual Knowledge. In The State of Georgia alone, where I have lived for a few years, They allow people to carry. If you have no record and are over 21 you can apply and most times approved. Get outside and put the book down. You cant learn about life from other peoples quotes. Quote me somthing from you not what you have read.
Your so smart, yet so uninformed. I have seen people carrying thier weapons legally and these are people I wouldnt trust with a butter knife let alone a gun with bullets.
Come hang with me for a day and Ill show you educated.
People like you really piss me off, You talk from books and google searches and know nothing about actual life. I can survive in any element you can, yet im 1000% sure you cannot survive in mine.
Speak from experience or dont speak at all.

**vpchill** · 07-23-2009, 10:02 AM

FYI, the same people who are running to have everyone carrying guns across state lines will be the same ones on TV crying when someone who this Bill helped get a legal gun ends up killing a loved one.

You should have to meet a certain criteria to own a gun, as well as pass certain training. Thats jmo

**J-Dogg** · 07-23-2009, 10:13 AM

Originally Posted by vpchill

FYI, the same people who are running to have everyone carrying guns across state lines will be the same ones on TV crying when someone who this Bill helped get a legal gun ends up killing a loved one.

You should have to meet a certain criteria to own a gun, as well as pass certain training. Thats jmo

I concur my friend.

You have to take drivers training to drive a car for Christs sake.

And honestly, I see no reason why anyone other than an officer should own a hand gun.

Destroy them all, only cop issued weapons.

If you want to hunt, use a rifle, or a bow. I'm a real man, I hunt with my bare hands and teeth.

And if you are such a passionate libertarian, and there is an uprising against the government, make some vodka bombs like they do in every other country.

**vpchill** · 07-23-2009, 10:18 AM

Originally Posted by J-Dogg

I concur my friend.

You have to take drivers training to drive a car for Christs sake.

And honestly, I see no reason why anyone other than an officer should own a hand gun.

Destroy them all, only cop issued weapons.

If you want to hunt, use a rifle, or a bow. I'm a real man, I hunt with my bare hands and teeth.

And if you are such a passionate libertarian, and there is an uprising against the government, make some vodka bombs like they do in every other country.

Exactly, Im not sure why people are in such a rush to see chaos in the streets. I know people who keep their record clean just to apply to carry then do all types of crap. Color doesnt matter because I have a few white friends in Detroit who do all types of schemes legally with guns.. Most people will be cowering in their bedrooms. Most will only shoot out of fear, Not cause they are badass. Bunch of pvssies if you ask me. Learn to fight and protect your family.
Im venting now.. sorry. I hate cowards!!

**vpchill** · 07-23-2009, 10:28 AM

Allow me to clarify now that my rant is over, I do believe in everyones right to bare arms. Yet I feel before we allow people to carry nationally we should create better laws and provisions in each state as far as what is required to own and carry a gun.

If anyone recalls the student gun running issues of a few years ago where students in GA were buying guns and the same guns were being sold in other states?? Two of my good friends were involved in that. How does a gun store owner allow a 21yr old college student to purchase 45 guns.. 21 at one time? Its just foolish and irresponsible.
I just feel more should be done locally before we start allowing people to carry from state to state.

**J-Dogg** · 07-23-2009, 10:32 AM

If I really wanted a gun, I'd buy a welder and some pipe and make one myself.

**spywizard** · 07-23-2009, 10:37 AM

Originally Posted by vpchill

I dont agree with this Bill.. Too many people are not mature enough to handle the responsibility of carrying weapons across state lines.
If we want the Wild west back then be my guest. All each person would be doing is trying to buy more guns than their neighbor. Guns dont kill people, People kill people. Rather than try to arm the entire country and every half bit fool, How about we focus on the illegal gun trade and get those who should not have weapons dealt with and the sellers made to justify their ignorance for selling 45 guns to a college student.

You should have to jump through hoops to own a gun in my opinion. Too many people who have no brain own guns legally and illegally.

really??/ more people should not be allowed to reproduce, and good God we need to stop these incompetent killers that drive cars..

criminals don't get licensed to carry a firearm, they simply put it in their pockets and rape your wife while you are tied up.. or kill you outright..

but hey, we all have different experiences.. there can be no wolves if there are no sheep..

**Matt** · 07-23-2009, 10:39 AM

Gets pop corn and sits back...

**vpchill** · 07-23-2009, 10:40 AM

Originally Posted by J-Dogg

If I really wanted a gun, I'd buy a welder and some pipe and make one myself.

I am a 3 time felon. Ive owned 2 Houses full of Guns. Ive done many things (Its called LIFE experience for those who dont know).

I currently Own NO guns. I live in a not so bad, but not so great Area. Have my window open with my 60inch flatscreen in plane view.
Im a MAN 1st. To know a real man is to know you dont attempt to take his stuff. I dont need a gun unless I feel a war is about to break out. Im older and wiser. I can protect my family with my mind and my body. Some folks should learn to be Men then learn to shoot guns.

JMO

**spywizard** · 07-23-2009, 10:40 AM

Originally Posted by vpchill

Allow me to clarify now that my rant is over, I do believe in everyones right to bare arms. Yet I feel before we allow people to carry nationally we should create better laws and provisions in each state as far as what is required to own and carry a gun.

If anyone recalls the student gun running issues of a few years ago where students in GA were buying guns and the same guns were being sold in other states?? Two of my good friends were involved in that. How does a gun store owner allow a 21yr old college student to purchase 45 guns.. 21 at one time? Its just foolish and irresponsible.
I just feel more should be done locally before we start allowing people to carry from state to state.

ahhh.. this legislation was driven, or started for truck drivers that move from state to state.. we as a people are very mobile.. I can conceal carry in 27 states.. what's the issue??

as for the wild west.. in the last 9 yrs here in Minnesota where a "right to self protect" type law has been on the books.... we have had 0 incidents where a licensed citizen has used a firearm in self defense..

#'s out today, violent crime and deaths are at a 25 yr low..

interesting, even with economy so bad..

**vpchill** · 07-23-2009, 10:43 AM

Originally Posted by spywizard

really??/ more people should not be allowed to reproduce, and good God we need to stop these incompetent killers that drive cars..

criminals don't get licensed to carry a firearm, they simply put it in their pockets and rape your wife while you are tied up.. or kill you outright..

but hey, we all have different experiences.. there can be no wolves if there are no sheep..

Bump to Post #22.. Im not in total disagreement.

**vpchill** · 07-23-2009, 10:46 AM

Originally Posted by spywizard

ahhh.. this legislation was driven, or started for truck drivers that move from state to state.. we as a people are very mobile.. I can conceal carry in 27 states.. what's the issue??

as for the wild west.. in the last 9 yrs here in Minnesota where a "right to self protect" type law has been on the books.... we have had 0 incidents where a licensed citizen has used a firearm in self defense..

#'s out today, violent crime and deaths are at a 25 yr low..

interesting, even with economy so bad..

Ok spy so I would say you are a responsible party. What about others who are not so responsible?

**vpchill** · 07-23-2009, 10:49 AM

I guess Im a wolf so I wouldnt know what thats like. As stated everyones experiences are different. I just feel more should be done locally and about illegal guns before we allow people to travel with weapons.

Its My opinion.

**spywizard** · 07-23-2009, 10:55 AM

Originally Posted by vpchill

I guess Im a wolf so I wouldnt know what thats like. As stated everyones experiences are different. I just feel more should be done locally and about illegal guns before we allow people to travel with weapons.

Its My opinion.

and i would agree with you..

one of the primary restrictions is now allowing carry into federal building, or bars, or where liquor is sold/consumed..

we can see the need for that, no need to have a drunk with a gun..

also, a armed citizen is not the police, if a person is being attacked (unless they are being killed obviously) don't be a hero, call to the attacker, make them stop, if they come at you with a knife or club or whatever to attack you, that's different..

**j4ever41** · 07-23-2009, 10:59 AM

i always laugh when i see legislation like this because if someone wants to carry a weapon across state lines they are not going to care if its legal or not and that goes for the everyday square to the criminal.

**vpchill** · 07-23-2009, 11:06 AM

Originally Posted by spywizard

and i would agree with you..

one of the primary restrictions is now allowing carry into federal building, or bars, or where liquor is sold/consumed..

we can see the need for that, no need to have a drunk with a gun..

also, a armed citizen is not the police, if a person is being attacked (unless they are being killed obviously) don't be a hero, call to the attacker, make them stop, if they come at you with a knife or club or whatever to attack you, that's different..

Once again, Id Agree with this. I want more qualifications to carry locally, then we discuss nationally. As stated by Jdogg, You must take a road test and written test to drive. More should be asked to carry a gun.

**SMCengineer** · 07-23-2009, 11:22 AM

Originally Posted by thegodfather

That is only one side of the coin. On the other hand, you can view it as a civil liberties issue. The 2nd amendment can be incorporated onto the states via the 14th Amendment. The Bill of Rights supercedes all State laws, because once you cross state lines you do not lose your right to Freedom of Speech(1st Amendment), your right to the writ of Habeas Corpus(Article I), or your right against Unlawful Search&Seisure(4th Amendment). There is a standard, via the Bill of Rights, which every citizen of the United States is entitled to, regardless of State lines. They are in essence rights which no State can violate. Because the 2nd Amendment is in the same document as these other rights, it makes no sense then, that the 2nd Amendment should not be protected from the States like the rest of the amendments. The 14th amendment would allow the 2nd Amendment to be fully incorporated onto the states.

My own biases against the 14th amendment notwithstanding, I don't believe the Second amendment has been incorporated against every state. I also believe incorporation of the second amendment would be a double edged sword because it would vastly expand federal powers over gun control and supercede state rights.

**Mooseman33** · 07-23-2009, 11:56 AM

Originally Posted by vpchill

Once again, Id Agree with this. I want more qualifications to carry locally, then we discuss nationally. As stated by Jdogg, You must take a road test and written test to drive. More should be asked to carry a gun.

the problem with having more training or having more qualifications to carry are that they will all be state run/teach state lesson. anything the state touches as far as training or requirements are jokes. i have my license in florida and always carry 2 pieces, the class i had to take to apply was a joke, it was full of rebounds...at the end all u had to do was fire one round, what a joke...
but the thing is, there is nothing more they can do...they cover a background check, more training is not the answer, cause the state emposed lesson will be a joke......

side note, the $117 it cost for my 7 year license was the best money i ever spent.....

**Iron_Pig** · 07-23-2009, 12:41 PM

Originally Posted by MAD MATT

Where i come from if the box of toys want a read and write we dont need the runs...

For those that dont understand that..

Where i come from if the boys want a fight we dont need guns...

This why I love the Brits, Man to Man and when its over buy you a pint mate. I learned to fight In an English pub.

**thegodfather** · 07-23-2009, 06:00 PM

Originally Posted by vpchill

Here you go again insulting my intelligence and throwing your numbers from Books around. I speak from actual Knowledge. In The State of Georgia alone, where I have lived for a few years, They allow people to carry. If you have no record and are over 21 you can apply and most times approved. Get outside and put the book down. You cant learn about life from other peoples quotes. Quote me somthing from you not what you have read.
Your so smart, yet so uninformed. I have seen people carrying thier weapons legally and these are people I wouldnt trust with a butter knife let alone a gun with bullets.
Come hang with me for a day and Ill show you educated.
People like you really piss me off, You talk from books and google searches and know nothing about actual life. I can survive in any element you can, yet im 1000% sure you cannot survive in mine.
Speak from experience or dont speak at all.

I certainly was not trying to insult your intelligence. However, you made several claims which are unsubstantiated by the available data. So, I would appreciate it if you didn't make assumptions as to my own personal experiences, I have been involved with and seen things I would not like any other person to see. However, when arguing a point, I prefer to use facts and statistics which are more or less irrefutable, than to use straw man arguments which have no quantifiable way of being measured.

When you speak from personal experience, we call these things anecdotes. They are more or less useless for the sake of argument, because there is no way to eliminate the many confounding variables which could be effecting your opinion. Statistics are more relevant when discussing national problems, because they account for regional differences.

You want an original statement from me? I concealed&carried on a daily basis when I was in college. Having that tool at my disposable should something threaten my life made me feel much safer. In fact, I almost had to draw my weapon on a person who I thought was going to attempt to rob me. So I am quite apprehensive when bleeding heart liberals want to make ME less safe, or make my FAMILY less safe, and limit MY right to defend myself and my family because their misguided opinions and fear mongering scare people into thinking an INANIMATE OBJECT like a gun is responsible for all the evil in the world.

What do these laws do? They DO NOT stop criminals from carrying guns across state lines concealed on their persons, that is why they are by definition a CRIMINAL. ALL that legislation does is prevent LAW ABIDING CITIZENS from being able to protect themselves from the criminals who break the laws. It penalizes the good guys, and rewards the bad guys. Concluding that we need more gun control is so illogical that it boggles my mind how anyone can hold this belief. Especially when the NUMBERS, which you seem unconcerned with, indicate DRASTIC decreases in violent crime in states that have instituted CONCEAL AND CARRY.

**mho** · 07-23-2009, 07:19 PM

Originally Posted by J-Dogg

I concur my friend.

You have to take drivers training to drive a car for Christs sake.

And honestly, I see no reason why anyone other than an officer should own a hand gun.

Destroy them all, only cop issued weapons.

If you want to hunt, use a rifle, or a bow. I'm a real man, I hunt with my bare hands and teeth.

And if you are such a passionate libertarian, and there is an uprising against the government, make some vodka bombs like they do in every other country.

Sounds like you've been reading from the Adolf Hitler playbook.

**mho** · 07-23-2009, 07:38 PM

Originally Posted by vpchill

Ok spy so I would say you are a responsible party. What about others who are not so responsible?

This is an invalid argument bro. You can't punish an entire group of law-abiding people for the actions of criminals.

**TITANIUM** · 07-23-2009, 08:05 PM

All he is trying to say, is reciprocity will make it safer for the law abiding sector.It will also make it easier for law enforcement to deal with not knowing the laws of other states.OK, here is a example, your drivers license is good in all U.S. states.That is reciprocity in itself.