Overtraining Thoughts

**Gaspari1255** · 09-04-2009, 03:10 PM

A thought occured to me today about over-training. If you look at an iron worker, or a mechanic, 90% of them have some gigantic Forearms. It's because they're using them 40 hours a week making a living. Why isn't that over-training? What makes that logical but working biceps more than twice (usually once) is too much? Another example- Look at a person in the concrete/mason business. They spend a lot of time pushing a wheel barrel of concrete and mortar around all day and in return, the majority of them have huge calves. How come these people's muscles continue to grow and blow up when they are clearly indirectly over-training the shit out of them?

**PC650** · 09-04-2009, 03:16 PM

well actually i remembr reading that forearms can take more stress than any other muscle cuz of the functions it is there for. plus if a concrete guy is only working his calves by holding a wheel barrell he is working them indirect really, and plus if he doesnt even go to the gym i dont see overtraing happening too him. same with forearms, IMO!

**Gaspari1255** · 09-04-2009, 03:19 PM

Wheel barrel strength is all in the legs when it comes to pushing it. How come they're not over-training though? They're working the same muscle group over and over, 5 days a week for x amount of years. This almost makes me think that overtaining is myth.

**bushido3374** · 09-04-2009, 03:19 PM

Good question.

**PC650** · 09-04-2009, 03:23 PM

good point man. maybe calves are like forearms. i use wheel barrels alot i mean it is stress on the legs for sure but its the same as walking just with a little more weight. so why dont we over train by walking day to day

**MuscleScience** · 09-04-2009, 04:01 PM

If they develop carpel tunnel syndrome then wouldnt it be???

**fig** · 09-04-2009, 04:03 PM

I've thought the same. Say, for example, the gravity of earth doubled next week. Everyone's legs would adjust. We would all have stronger legs. We'd be working them 7 days/week.

**PC650** · 09-04-2009, 04:04 PM

i have carpel tunnel in my arm but i can still devolop muscle in it. so i dunno

**MuscleScience** · 09-04-2009, 04:10 PM

Over training is very real, its testable and can manifest itself in various ways in people. For some people they simple will not improve in the gym. For others they will get repetitive stress injuries such as carpel tunnel. While some people may not experience any symptoms of it at all.

**stack_it** · 09-04-2009, 04:10 PM

Start doing a full body work out every day and let us know how it works out lol. Very interesting question.

**CHAP** · 09-04-2009, 04:26 PM

Overtraining is for sure real and will cause injury. I have gain alot of muscle over the past 6 mths. 1 of the reasons I have grown so easily this time around is because I take 5-7 days of every 6-10 weeks and let all my muscles heal . I train brutally hard and the break is needed.

Everyones point of over training will be differant though The younger you are the quicker you will recover . And as we get older will will over train much faster with out the needed breaks

**kickinit** · 09-07-2009, 07:25 AM

Originally Posted by MuscleScience

If they develop carpel tunnel syndrome then wouldnt it be???

alot of them do..

**kickinit** · 09-07-2009, 07:28 AM

The thing thats different IS these trades professionals do a very small amount ALL DAY. Us gym guys try to cruch that into 1hr. It's like putting 12lbs of shit in a 1lb bag (12hr day into 1, for those that didn't get it) so we are alot more likely to OVERTRAIN trying to get the same results as those people.

BG · 09-07-2009, 08:16 AM

You have take into account liagaments and tendons. Forearms and calves get used everyday for normal activity to they can take the abuse. But when it comes to shoulders or doing bi's you will be wearing out joints that need their time off. For example, tennis players get tennis elbow, pitchers need Tommy John surgery. Then the biggest reason for time off is recover of your cns (central nervous system), this gets damaged during heavy training and requires time to recover before you can have muscle recovery. Maybe Goose will come and explain, took him a while, but he finally got me to train only 3x ew.At the end of every pm or email he would write "less is more".

**J-Dogg** · 09-07-2009, 08:32 AM

I think over training is a little bit of a myth in the sense that it is taken.

Can you over train? certainly, but I don't think very many people do it. I think it's more or less a problem when people work out like a maniac for 4 weeks,2 times a day, 4 hours a day and expect to be a body builder, get fusterated and quit because they are not seeing intimidate results.

I think more or less, the danger is not in lack of results, but a result in injury from stress to joints, tendons or ligaments. Especially if you are going heavy.

A iron worker, or mechanic is certainly working those forearms all day,but how often are they working them till failure? The muscle is being used, but not to the fatigue that we put on our bodies in the gym.

I do think though, that over training is hardly an issue for 95% of the people that train. Over training is not a problem because the body can't keep up, it's because setting a work out regimen too intense, is hard to follow, goals have to be achievable. With proper nutrition, supplements and age group, it's not the problem with your body, it's keeping up mentally and sticking with it.

***El Diablo*** · 09-07-2009, 08:43 AM

Originally Posted by BG

You have take into account liagaments and tendons. Forearms and calves get used everyday for normal activity to they can take the abuse. But when it comes to shoulders or doing bi's you will be wearing out joints that need their time off. For example, tennis players get tennis elbow, pitchers need Tommy John surgery. Then the biggest reason for time off is recover of your cns (central nervous system), this gets damaged during heavy training and requires time to recover before you can have muscle recovery. Maybe Goose will come and explain, took him a while, but he finally got me to train only 3x ew.At the end of every pm or email he would write "less is more".

I would love to train 3 x a week, and i know ill grow more, but its the guilty feeling that gets me down, the fact that i know i havent trained 5 x days a week. I cant stand losing a day.. i havent missed a day in 4 years.

**lovbyts** · 09-07-2009, 09:48 AM

Originally Posted by stack_it

Start doing a full body work out every day and let us know how it works out lol. Very interesting question.

Im sure we all see the guys that do exactly that, maybe not EVERY day but a few times a week and I have never seen one who is big or even in shape yet.

It all depends on what you are trying to do. If you want size dont work the same muscle ever day. If you want LEAN they fine.

**Epic1** · 09-07-2009, 10:01 AM

how many concrete workers do you see still doing concrete work at the age of 50 without some major surgery. I have always been in the construction trades as well as my father. My dad is only 53 and cant even walk hardly. And his back is so messed up he cant lift anything anymore.

His neck is so messed up he cant even look up anymore.

There is a reason we need rest. If you are working 6 days a week using the same muscles something has to give. Weather its muscle or tendons or joints ...you are only going to hurt yourself. Dont justify hitting the gym everyday because you see a dude with big forearms.

Why would anyone want to do that to themselves on purpose. Patience is key to body building. Along with all the other things involved.

**lovbyts** · 09-07-2009, 10:30 AM

Agreed, I did drywall for 3 years to long when I was in my 20s

I'm no in my 40s, Ive had back surgery 2x and now they want to fuse my lower 2 discs. Some days I cant hardly get up out of bed or???? It just hurts to do everything.
IF I could do it all over again that is one of the main things I would change, NEVER work drywall and save my back or at least dont try so damn hard to impress my boss showing how hard of a worker I was.

DAMN fool kid...

OMG I can only dream of what it would be like to NOT be in pain 24/7 or to get out of bed without having to roll over first and not just sit up.

OK back OT overtraining.

Rest and get big (time off) train ever day and break down.

**J-Dogg** · 09-07-2009, 11:29 AM

Originally Posted by lovbyts

Agreed, I did drywall for 3 years to long when I was in my 20s

I'm no in my 40s, Ive had back surgery 2x and now they want to fuse my lower 2 discs. Some days I cant hardly get up out of bed or???? It just hurts to do everything.
IF I could do it all over again that is one of the main things I would change, NEVER work drywall and save my back or at least dont try so damn hard to impress my boss showing how hard of a worker I was.

DAMN fool kid...

OMG I can only dream of what it would be like to NOT be in pain 24/7 or to get out of bed without having to roll over first and not just sit up.

OK back OT overtraining.

Rest and get big (time off) train ever day and break down.

I own a roofing company and worked in the field for 5 years, that's ruff on the body!

I busted my hump to build the company, but I have no problems with my body from it. Back is solid still, shoulders, everything works fine.

Granted i'm not 40 yet, 29. But I think some people are just more prone to injuries. I've tweeked my right shoulder a little once, took 2 weeks off and was fine. I've never had any injury problems at all while most of my friends who lift, have all had multiple.

I don't seem to grow as fast as some of them, but I'm content not having injuries. I never train to be 300lbs, and have always watched my form as I've always lifted for a physic not for strength or power.

I'm still happy with my stats though, 6', 210lbs when I'm sub 10% and have never been over 225 when bulking.

BG · 09-07-2009, 12:21 PM

Originally Posted by *El Diablo*

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I would love to train 3 x a week, and i know ill grow more, but its the guilty feeling that gets me down, the fact that i know i havent trained 5 x days a week. I cant stand losing a day.. i havent missed a day in 4 years.

On my in between days I do calves, abs,fore arms and some cardio.

**lovbyts** · 09-07-2009, 04:47 PM

Originally Posted by J-Dogg

I own a roofing company and worked in the field for 5 years, that's ruff on the body!

I busted my hump to build the company, but I have no problems with my body from it. Back is solid still, shoulders, everything works fine.

Granted i'm not 40 yet, 29. But I think some people are just more prone to injuries. I've tweeked my right shoulder a little once, took 2 weeks off and was fine. I've never had any injury problems at all while most of my friends who lift, have all had multiple.

I don't seem to grow as fast as some of them, but I'm content not having injuries. I never train to be 300lbs, and have always watched my form as I've always lifted for a physic not for strength or power.

I'm still happy with my stats though, 6', 210lbs when I'm sub 10% and have never been over 225 when bulking.

Just remember, it only takes that ONE time to screw you up for life. I worked over 2 years without a problem lifting and carrying more than I should. I was 22 and indestructible.

One time (I had done it many times) I was carrying 2 4x12 5/8 drywall from my truck to a house through a muddy unfinished driveway and it was a little windy. Wind caught it, twisted and my back when POP. Game over even though I worked another 2 weeks without missing a day even though I would collapse 3x a day due to my back pinching and legs folding. When my boss saw me fall he made me take time off. I healed 80% in the next 2 weeks??? OK it didnt hurt as much but??? From there on out over 20 years it was down hill until I could not walk or stand for more than 5 min at a time.

Protect your back at all cost. We didnt wear lifting belts back then either

Just because it has NOT happened doesn not mean it cant or wont so start being even more careful now and dont lift that by yourself.....

BG · 09-07-2009, 05:51 PM

Originally Posted by lovbyts

Just remember, it only takes that ONE time to screw you up for life. I worked over 2 years without a problem lifting and carrying more than I should. I was 22 and indestructible.

One time (I had done it many times) I was carrying 2 4x12 5/8 drywall from my truck to a house through a muddy unfinished driveway and it was a little windy. Wind caught it, twisted and my back when POP. Game over even though I worked another 2 weeks without missing a day even though I would collapse 3x a day due to my back pinching and legs folding. When my boss saw me fall he made me take time off. I healed 80% in the next 2 weeks??? OK it didnt hurt as much but??? From there on out over 20 years it was down hill until I could not walk or stand for more than 5 min at a time.

Protect your back at all cost. We didnt wear lifting belts back then either

Just because it has NOT happened doesn not mean it cant or wont so start being even more careful now and dont lift that by yourself.....

I agree 100%, I was jack hammering frost on the side of a deep hole, it broke off and the 110lb jack hammer dropped . With all my might i held on and pulled it back up....man my backs been fuc'd up since that day. Woke this morning stiff as shit....and it happened 15 years ago.

**goose** · 09-07-2009, 08:11 PM

Now this is the most extreme case for me,I train biceps for only 10 minutes a week. You read that right. One 10-minute workout, done with sufficient intensity, is all the stimulation my biceps needs to recuperate and grow. The workout comprises three basic movements--concentration curls, straight-bar curls and cambered-bar curls--which are preceded by stretching and then a light warm-up set of alternate dumbbell curls In fact, to my way of thinking, hitting biceps two times per week constitutes overtraining. If you truly fatigue a muscle during your workout, then it should require about a week to recuperate adequately before training it again. Still, I see so many guys training their biceps several times a week, with the same kind of work they put into their chest training, then they wonder why they're constantly stuck at a plateau.Not many people train with intensity,the whole journey to my gym,im just thinking about the weight I must lift,if you dont have this heart,stick with 4 hour girly volume shit

**lovbyts** · 09-07-2009, 08:16 PM

Originally Posted by goose

Now this is the most extreme case for me,I train biceps for only 10 minutes a week. You read that right. One 10-minute workout, done with sufficient intensity, is all the stimulation my biceps needs to recuperate and grow. The workout comprises three basic movements--concentration curls, straight-bar curls and cambered-bar curls--which are preceded by stretching and then a light warm-up set of alternate dumbbell curls In fact, to my way of thinking, hitting biceps two times per week constitutes overtraining. If you truly fatigue a muscle during your workout, then it should require about a week to recuperate adequately before training it again. Still, I see so many guys training their biceps several times a week, with the same kind of work they put into their chest training, then they wonder why they're constantly stuck at a plateau.Not many people train with intensity,the whole journey to my gym,im just thinking about the weight I must lift,if you dont have this heart,stick with 4 hour girly volume shit

Any pics?

**goose** · 09-07-2009, 08:20 PM

Originally Posted by lovbyts

Any pics?

I have been a bad boy in the past here,DEA may want me.I guess I could crop a picture but I cant be fuced

I got nothing to prove.

**Bojangles69** · 09-07-2009, 08:22 PM

Its genetics. And they still ARE overtraining.

Just imagine how much bigger they would be if they weren't overtraining? I know guys who have been landscaping for 15 years and are the skinniest, muscleless bastards I know. Their genetics don't allow them to recover fast enough OR their diets suck so badly they simply can't put on mass.

Then I've seen other guys who do grow. Their genetics are better, and maybe they eat better, but the point is if they trained PROPERLY their forearms would be bigger then my cock.. which is quite big one might say.

**lovbyts** · 09-07-2009, 08:38 PM

Originally Posted by goose

I have been a bad boy in the past here,DEA may want me.I guess I could crop a picture but I cant be fuced

I got nothing to prove.

Actually I would like you to prove your statement of only 10 minutes once a week. Honestly it sound like BS to put it simple. 10 minutes is WAY under doing it depending on your goals. I would like to see what if any size you have.

My profile pics are up. I have only been training a little over a year. I only do biceps once a week but 30-45 minutes.

***El Diablo*** · 09-08-2009, 01:05 AM

Originally Posted by lovbyts

Actually I would like you to prove your statement of only 10 minutes once a week. Honestly it sound like BS to put it simple. 10 minutes is WAY under doing it depending on your goals. I would like to see what if any size you have.

My profile pics are up. I have only been training a little over a year. I only do biceps once a week but 30-45 minutes.

Not everyone's body responds the same, my arms are the biggest issue currenlty, and i have tried various different routine's to make them grow, and i have to work them out atleast Monday and Thursday to make them grow, where my training partner trains them once a week, and he has 20" + arms.

BG · 09-08-2009, 08:44 PM

Originally Posted by lovbyts

Actually I would like you to prove your statement of only 10 minutes once a week. Honestly it sound like BS to put it simple. 10 minutes is WAY under doing it depending on your goals. I would like to see what if any size you have.

My profile pics are up. I have only been training a little over a year. I only do biceps once a week but 30-45 minutes.

You are barking up the wrong tree. Goose's knowledge is second to none and muscle developement is something I one day dream of having. He has gotten me to where I am today !!!!

**xlxBigSexyxlx** · 09-08-2009, 08:57 PM

Originally Posted by BG

You are barking up the wrong tree. Goose's knowledge is second to none and muscle developement is something I one day dream of having. He has gotten me to where I am today !!!!

Ya know, I would like to pick yours and some others minds apart as far as training goes, and maybe some other stuff. Send some PMs out, and collect and organize my data. Kinda like interviewing you veteran mofos lol

Maybe if I feel like it anytime soon.

***D7M*** · 09-08-2009, 08:58 PM

Goose is a beast.

If he trains bi's for 10min/week, it's working for him!

**MuscleScience** · 09-08-2009, 09:05 PM

Originally Posted by D7M

Goose is a beast.

If he trains bi's for 10min/week, it's working for him!

I would say thats probably as much as I train bi's too. The flexors of the forearm are not a huge group of muscles. They can be isolated pretty well and simple do not need the same amount volume that a muscle group like the extensors of the femur at the hips and knees need to fully stimulate all muscle fibers.

**BgMc31** · 09-08-2009, 09:44 PM

Originally Posted by lovbyts

Actually I would like you to prove your statement of only 10 minutes once a week. Honestly it sound like BS to put it simple. 10 minutes is WAY under doing it depending on your goals. I would like to see what if any size you have.

My profile pics are up. I have only been training a little over a year. I only do biceps once a week but 30-45 minutes.

Most strength athletes (powerlifters/strongmen/oly lifters) don't train biceps directly. And if we do its very little for prehab and ligament strength and most of us have tremendous bicep development.

Since you're not that big, maybe your 30-45minutes is overtraining. OVERTRAINING IS VERY REAL and I think the majority of people do it and that is why most don't progressive as effectively as they would like. The bb'er mags have a lot to do with this as well as many try to duplicate the routines of the pros without knowing what the pros recovery programs are like.