State of Denial

**Flagg** · 05-16-2010, 10:29 AM

Looking through a journal this week, it dawned on me that we seem to live in an "age of denial". For example, i'd wager that 90% of people on this forum belong to one or more of the following categories:

Climate Denial - those that believe that global warming either isnt real, isnt caused by humans or doesnt even matter.

Evolution Denial - those that believe that the theory of evolution is an athiest conspiracy theory to undermine religion.

Holocaust Denial - the systematic genocide of European Jews by the Nazi party is a fabrication or at the least, a massive exaggeration.

9/11 Denial - the US government either orchestrated or was complicit in the 9/11 attacks.

Theres many more like people that believe certain vaccines are witheld so that pharmacuetical companies can make more money, a popular one being that we are all being groomed by the nWo and so on.

Are denialists simply underdogs or conspiracy nuts that see themselves as fighting a corrupt elite? Is the World really this grim or are denialists driven by ideology or religious belief, where that belief takes precedence over evidence?

Should we be right to question any of the above, or does it simply slow us down from solving the bigger issues.

What really is the truth?

**Matt** · 05-16-2010, 10:35 AM

Evolution never happened and climate change is not happening, just my view..

**DSM4Life** · 05-16-2010, 10:42 AM

Climate - Is def speed up from us but history shows the earths temp fluctuates all the time.

Evo - I 100% in evolution. I don't believe in fairytale stories sorry.

Holo- I believe it but i guess i can only believe what i read.

9/11 - Only thing the government was guilty of was not taking these terrorist more serious but they sure do now.

Vaccines - Companys are out for one thing, TO MAKE MONEY. They dont care about their people or their patients/customers. They care about the all-mighty-dollar (most of them). We are surrounded with greed which brings me to my point, there is no money in a cure but there are endless dollars in "treatments."

**AlphaGenetics** · 05-16-2010, 10:42 AM

I fall into your ten percent. I believe in aliens also.

**DSM4Life** · 05-16-2010, 10:48 AM

As far as vaccines / health care goes watch this trailer :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlDAUKSh9CQ

Now i don't take what this guys says word for word but instead i listen to the people interviewed. The same people who have worked for health care providers. Half of what someone tells you is true and if thats the case here then their stories would make you sick to your stomach.

**energizer bunny** · 05-16-2010, 11:28 AM

i am definately No1.....climate change is hapening regardlss of what we do,,good or bad!......

**energizer bunny** · 05-16-2010, 11:35 AM

......

**energizer bunny** · 05-16-2010, 11:41 AM

.........

***FireGuy*** · 05-16-2010, 12:27 PM

Since when is an opposing view a state of denial? You have obviously accepted the above as "facts" and so in your mind anyone who has a different opinion is in a "state of denial"? I am not saying I agree or disagree with anything you wrote but it's very presumptious to assume your views are correct and everyone else is in denial.

**thegodfather** · 05-16-2010, 01:00 PM

Originally Posted by FireGuy1

Since when is an opposing view a state of denial? You have obviously accepted the above as "facts" and so in your mind anyone who has a different opinion is in a "state of denial"? I am not saying I agree or disagree with anything you wrote but it's very presumptious to assume your views are correct and everyone else is in denial.

Kind of reminds me Al Gore having to eat shit with "The debate is over!" Any scientist knows that the debate is NEVER over. Even "laws," like those in physics can be undone tomorrow if they discover something that challenges those laws, the work being done at the LHC is a good example. Damn, if the debate was over on everything we would be living in the middle ages, and every time you got sick the doctor would come around for some blood letting, lol.... You are taking things which are theories and turning them into empirical fact.

Global warming- called a theory for a reason...

Evolution- called the "Theory of Evolution"

Holocaust- for all intents and purposes, an empirical historical fact. However, history is from time to time revised if new facts come to light.

9/11 Denial- An alternate "theory" to what happened that day. As previously stated with the Holocaust, if new facts come to light 50 years later (i.e.-something becomes declassified, see "The Pentagon Papers" for example) then we are required to accept the new theory as the predominant fact if there is evidence enough to warrant it.

***FireGuy*** · 05-16-2010, 01:05 PM

^^Very well stated. Plus...to me someone who is "in denial" knows their belief is wrong they just wont admit it. Someone who gets drunk 5 times a week but says they are not an alcoholic is in a state of denial. Millions of Christians are not in a state of denial, doesnt matter if their beliefs are correct or not. "Most" truly believe, so to call them in denial would be incorrect.

**Bossman** · 05-16-2010, 04:22 PM

Global warming is a crock of shit.....

Back in the 80's the extremists were saying that Michigan would have the climate of Florida by 2000. Im still waiting.

**Flagg** · 05-16-2010, 04:23 PM

Originally Posted by FireGuy1

Since when is an opposing view a state of denial? You have obviously accepted the above as "facts" and so in your mind anyone who has a different opinion is in a "state of denial"? I am not saying I agree or disagree with anything you wrote but it's very presumptious to assume your views are correct and everyone else is in denial.

Is this directed at me? This is what I got from the Journal I told you I said i'd read. Yes I do believe that climate change is occuring, yes I do believe that evolution is correct and yes I do believe that 6 million jews were executed during WW 2 and no I dont believe the US government had anything to do with 911.

Would you have prefered I put up the Moon Landing as an example? I listed those 4 to cover a broad range of examples and partly because they are much in the public eye, 911 and Climate Change sticking out more than most.

Yes once upon a time I did think there was something sinister about 911 but I don't believe that now. If you are offended by what I put then I dont know what to say, I generally wanted to generate discussion about what really is the truth.

I dont know if something in there did offend you, but jeeze I hear people tell me all the time that Climate Change is false, yet it doesnt offend me.

I think im correct that we are living in an Age of Denial. We question so very much in the light of facts presented. Science can easily be debunked because its "theory" and religion can be debunked because of a lack of "empirical data". See what I did? It's easy to cherry pick things.

Prehaps the world is not as clandestine as some of you think it is.

**alexISthrowed** · 05-16-2010, 04:59 PM

I could care less about global warming, evolution, or the holocaust. I really only care about making money and fvcking bitches.

**Vitruvian-Man** · 05-16-2010, 05:12 PM

Global warming: It's called climate-change.

Evolution: yes, it's a 'theory.' but it uses scientific analysis as a basis; whereas, creationism relies on 'the omniscient word of god' (great source right there btw

). Honestly, people who don't believe in this theory are just plain ignorant IMO. Anyone who just claims "it's a theory for a reason" seriously, wtf. Please show me any scientific data that proves creationism to be correct in any such way. (please don't post me links to ridiculous fundamentalist/extremist Christian's.... I'm not interested.)

If ANYONE could prove the theory of evolution wrong they would effectively prove hundreds of thousands of the worlds top scientific minds to be incorrect, and would have to be awarded a nobel prize for there discovery. Let's just open our eyes here people. It doesn't take a rocket-scientist to realize that we evolved from apes.

Holocaust: it occurred. no ifs ands or buts. both my grandparents were forced to live in a concentration camp for 3 years, and my grandmother died; however, my grandfather survived the ordeal to tell his story. If you could here even a minute of the horrors he has told me, you would be balling your eyes out. The Holocaust was the most horrific act of genocide in human history; hands down..

If you want to deny that it happened, then you should get on a ship and cruise over to N. Korea.

9/11 denial: I have no opinion on this. People can believe what they want. It happened, and it was an awful awful experience. That's the bottom line for me.

I'm sure some of these answers will stir the pot, lol.

-VM

**Shinalynn** · 05-16-2010, 05:59 PM

Originally Posted by Flagg

Looking through a journal this week, it dawned on me that we seem to live in an "age of denial". For example, i'd wager that 90% of people on this forum belong to one or more of the following categories:

Climate Denial - those that believe that global warming either isnt real, isnt caused by humans or doesnt even matter.

Evolution Denial - those that believe that the theory of evolution is an athiest conspiracy theory to undermine religion.

Holocaust Denial - the systematic genocide of European Jews by the Nazi party is a fabrication or at the least, a massive exaggeration.

9/11 Denial - the US government either orchestrated or was complicit in the 9/11 attacks.

Theres many more like people that believe certain vaccines are witheld so that pharmacuetical companies can make more money, a popular one being that we are all being groomed by the nWo and so on.

Are denialists simply underdogs or conspiracy nuts that see themselves as fighting a corrupt elite? Is the World really this grim or are denialists driven by ideology or religious belief, where that belief takes precedence over evidence?

Should we be right to question any of the above, or does it simply slow us down from solving the bigger issues.

What really is the truth?

Let’s flip this and say, that the world is going to change no matter what we do to it.
Something caused the "big bang" and it was not humans. Humans did not cause Jupiter to loose a stripe..So yea is there global warming..prolly, it is ALL our fault?? Prolly not.

Evolution. .AKA Survival of the fittest, weak traits die out. Do you really have to be an atheist to see that?

Holocaust- We basically did the same thing to Japs at the start of WWII...

9/11 should have never happened. Some people base their opions of Americans from what they see on TV, and movies. Lets face it there are ALOT of rude Americans, and they travel. I cant tell you how many times I have seen an American go to a place, say Germany, and expect them to speak English..THEN get mad when the Germans didn’t understand. There is ALOT that our government is liable for.. We have no one to blame but our selves.

These people that are in "denial" are really people that don’t care to be educated in the matter and don’t care to listen to people that have been educated in the matter. The world IS this grim. The truth?? It is what ever you want it to be. This is my truth, and this is how I see things.

***FireGuy*** · 05-16-2010, 06:03 PM

Originally Posted by Flagg

Is this directed at me? This is what I got from the Journal I told you I said i'd read. Yes I do believe that climate change is occuring, yes I do believe that evolution is correct and yes I do believe that 6 million jews were executed during WW 2 and no I dont believe the US government had anything to do with 911.

Would you have prefered I put up the Moon Landing as an example? I listed those 4 to cover a broad range of examples and partly because they are much in the public eye, 911 and Climate Change sticking out more than most.

Yes once upon a time I did think there was something sinister about 911 but I don't believe that now. If you are offended by what I put then I dont know what to say, I generally wanted to generate discussion about what really is the truth.

I dont know if something in there did offend you, but jeeze I hear people tell me all the time that Climate Change is false, yet it doesnt offend me.

I think im correct that we are living in an Age of Denial. We question so very much in the light of facts presented. Science can easily be debunked because its "theory" and religion can be debunked because of a lack of "empirical data". See what I did? It's easy to cherry pick things.

Prehaps the world is not as clandestine as some of you think it is.

You didnt offend me at all, if it came across that way then I apologize. I just found some basic fallacies in the principle of your argument is all and did my best to articulate them in my two posts.

**LatissimusaurousRex** · 05-16-2010, 06:08 PM

Homosexual Denial

**TinyTexan** · 05-16-2010, 06:31 PM

Originally Posted by FireGuy1

Since when is an opposing view a state of denial? You have obviously accepted the above as "facts" and so in your mind anyone who has a different opinion is in a "state of denial"? I am not saying I agree or disagree with anything you wrote but it's very presumptious to assume your views are correct and everyone else is in denial.

x2 well said

**AlphaGenetics** · 05-16-2010, 07:53 PM

I think the four topics you put up for discussion are facts since the validity of said issues are proven by scientific research. Now the big bang theory, for us to understand whats really going on out there is like ants trying to understand why dsm likes to frollip thru the tullips with his pink panties on.

**Hoggage_54** · 05-16-2010, 09:10 PM

I'm in denial that this thread was even made

**AlphaGenetics** · 05-16-2010, 09:24 PM

Originally Posted by Hoggage_54

I'm in denial that this thread was even made

Stay thirsty friend.

**Shinalynn** · 05-16-2010, 11:42 PM

Originally Posted by alphagenetics

i think the four topics you put up for discussion are facts since the validity of said issues are proven by scientific research. Now the big bang theory, for us to understand whats really going on out there is like ants trying to understand why dsm likes to frollip thru the tullips with his pink panties on.

roflmao!!!

**lovbyts** · 05-17-2010, 01:38 AM

Originally Posted by Vitruvian-Man

Global warming: It's called climate-change.

Evolution: yes, it's a 'theory.' but it uses scientific analysis as a basis; whereas, creationism relies on 'the omniscient word of god' (great source right there btw

). Honestly, people who don't believe in this theory are just plain ignorant IMO. Anyone who just claims "it's a theory for a reason" seriously, wtf. Please show me any scientific data that proves creationism to be correct in any such way. (please don't post me links to ridiculous fundamentalist/extremist Christian's.... I'm not interested.)

If ANYONE could prove the theory of evolution wrong they would effectively prove hundreds of thousands of the worlds top scientific minds to be incorrect, and would have to be awarded a nobel prize for there discovery. Let's just open our eyes here people. It doesn't take a rocket-scientist to realize that we evolved from apes.

Holocaust: it occurred. no ifs ands or buts. both my grandparents were forced to live in a concentration camp for 3 years, and my grandmother died; however, my grandfather survived the ordeal to tell his story. If you could here even a minute of the horrors he has told me, you would be balling your eyes out. The Holocaust was the most horrific act of genocide in human history; hands down..

If you want to deny that it happened, then you should get on a ship and cruise over to N. Korea.

9/11 denial: I have no opinion on this. People can believe what they want. It happened, and it was an awful awful experience. That's the bottom line for me.

I'm sure some of these answers will stir the pot, lol.

-VM

I think it's well put but I would go as far as to say Evolution is more adaptation.

As for everything else I agree and unlike many others I am always open to new information and willing to change my views or opinions. I am not one who convinced I am 100% correct all the time or unwilling to listen to logic.

Global warming since it's first hype I viewed it the same as the Ozone layer hole. LOL Even as a kid (7 or 8) I remember thinking what a crock of sh*t. When was the last time you heard anything about the ozone. hehehe They where WRONG

If we did not have global warming we would have global cooling.

**stevey_6t9** · 05-17-2010, 01:45 AM

**Flagg** · 05-17-2010, 08:44 AM

Originally Posted by FireGuy1

You didnt offend me at all, if it came across that way then I apologize. I just found some basic fallacies in the principle of your argument is all and did my best to articulate them in my two posts.

Its all cool mate. Prehaps labelling people that dont agree with certain things as "denialists" is quite strong, especially when scientific theory and religious belief come at logger heads. I do sometimes wonder though if conspiracy for other subjects such as 911, the Moon Landings are just that, crazy conspiracy. There comes a time when people have to realise that the ruling Governments of the world simply are not suppressing that much truth and information from us.

By the way if that is you in your avy you looked ripped to shreds!

**Flagg** · 05-17-2010, 08:53 AM

Originally Posted by Shinalynn

Let’s flip this and say, that the world is going to change no matter what we do to it.
Something caused the "big bang" and it was not humans. Humans did not cause Jupiter to loose a stripe..So yea is there global warming..prolly, it is ALL our fault?? Prolly not.

Evolution. .AKA Survival of the fittest, weak traits die out. Do you really have to be an atheist to see that?

Holocaust- We basically did the same thing to Japs at the start of WWII...

9/11 should have never happened. Some people base their opions of Americans from what they see on TV, and movies. Lets face it there are ALOT of rude Americans, and they travel. I cant tell you how many times I have seen an American go to a place, say Germany, and expect them to speak English..THEN get mad when the Germans didn’t understand. There is ALOT that our government is liable for.. We have no one to blame but our selves.

These people that are in "denial" are really people that don’t care to be educated in the matter and don’t care to listen to people that have been educated in the matter. The world IS this grim. The truth?? It is what ever you want it to be. This is my truth, and this is how I see things.

I agree with a lot of this, except the part about Japanese but i'll get to that in a second. I think our climate is changing, is it due to humans? Once upon a time I believed this, now im not so sure...the bottom line is the planets climate was always going to start warming up around this time. There have been ten ice ages in the last 1 million years, and they usually go like this: 80 - 90, 000 years of ice, followed by 10-20,000 years of rapid warmth, followed by more ice. The last ice age finished 15,000 years ago so it's pretty obvious what is going to happen next.

I do believe that 6 million EU jews were persecuted and obliterated during WW II, though I have to wonder where you get the idea that the Japanese were horrendously abused as well by Allied forces and at those sort of levels. I've heard some pretty horrible stories of what used to go on in a Japanese POW camp.

Of course I believe in Evolution. Im doing a degree on Environmental Science, so subjects like climate change, cycles, evolution is all covered, so im a little bit informed.

**green22** · 05-17-2010, 01:03 PM

put me in the 10%. I believe everything.

**Shinalynn** · 05-17-2010, 06:42 PM

Flagg, what I meant when I said that about the Japs, is we did it to them, and there were thousands not millions. Alot of people have no idea it happened. Millions of Jews were put thru worse, so when you said "the systematic genocide of European Jews by the Nazi party is a fabrication or at the least, a massive exaggeration." My point was if anything it is an understatement.

What I said about people not being infromed I was responding to this statement.
"Are denialists simply underdogs or conspiracy nuts that see themselves as fighting a corrupt elite? Is the World really this grim or are denialists driven by ideology or religious belief, where that belief takes precedence over evidence?"

I am with you on all of it. I get it, and I'm not going for a degree in Environmental Science.

**Flagg** · 05-17-2010, 07:15 PM

Originally Posted by Shinalynn

Flagg, what I meant when I said that about the Japs, is we did it to them, and there were thousands not millions. Alot of people have no idea it happened. Millions of Jews were put thru worse, so when you said "the systematic genocide of European Jews by the Nazi party is a fabrication or at the least, a massive exaggeration." My point was if anything it is an understatement.

What I said about people not being infromed I was responding to this statement.
"Are denialists simply underdogs or conspiracy nuts that see themselves as fighting a corrupt elite? Is the World really this grim or are denialists driven by ideology or religious belief, where that belief takes precedence over evidence?"

I am with you on all of it. I get it, and I'm not going for a degree in Environmental Science.

Cool, as long as you saw that I was simply explaining what each "denier" was and not stating those explanations as hard fact. I absolutely believe that 6 million Jews were killed but it is amazing that some people do not believe this. But you are right, there were other horrors of WW II that unfortunately were eclipsed by the goings on in Auschwitz and Dachau. I didnt mean to try and piss on what you was saying, but I know what you meant that sometimes the smaller picture is ignored.

Im glad you are with me on most of it, I not trying to rabble rouse and I thought this would make for an interesting topic. For every person that does believe in Evolution, you'll equally find someone who additionally believes that the Moon Landings were faked or that the Government was responsible for the JFK assassination or 911.

**Superhero d-bolman** · 05-17-2010, 11:15 PM

Originally Posted by Shinalynn

Let’s flip this and say, that the world is going to change no matter what we do to it.
Something caused the "big bang" and it was not humans. Humans did not cause Jupiter to loose a stripe..So yea is there global warming..prolly, it is ALL our fault?? Prolly not.

Evolution. .AKA Survival of the fittest, weak traits die out. Do you really have to be an atheist to see that?

Holocaust- We basically did the same thing to Japs at the start of WWII...

9/11 should have never happened. Some people base their opions of Americans from what they see on TV, and movies. Lets face it there are ALOT of rude Americans, and they travel. I cant tell you how many times I have seen an American go to a place, say Germany, and expect them to speak English..THEN get mad when the Germans didn’t understand. There is ALOT that our government is liable for.. We have no one to blame but our selves.

These people that are in "denial" are really people that don’t care to be educated in the matter and don’t care to listen to people that have been educated in the matter. The world IS this grim. The truth?? It is what ever you want it to be. This is my truth, and this is how I see things.

uhhh? first of all the quality in which we treated the japanese and the quality that the germans treated the jews was much different. For one important difference we didn't purposely starve the japanese to death like the germans did, stick them in gas chambers etc.

**Shinalynn** · 05-18-2010, 06:24 AM

Originally Posted by Superhero d-bolman

uhhh? first of all the quality in which we treated the japanese and the quality that the germans treated the jews was much different. For one important difference we didn't purposely starve the japanese to death like the germans did, stick them in gas chambers etc.

UGG did you read what I posted after that? Here let me spell it all out for you. Americans put the Japs in concentration camps and treated them horrible. This only happened to a few Japs and alot of people have NO idea it ever happened. This happened in our own country. So the stories and history that is passed down about the Holocaust is more like an understatement instead of massive exaggeration. We have no idea how bad it was bc there are lots of Jews that never lived to tell.

**Shinalynn** · 05-18-2010, 06:29 AM

Originally Posted by Flagg

Cool, as long as you saw that I was simply explaining what each "denier" was and not stating those explanations as hard fact. I absolutely believe that 6 million Jews were killed but it is amazing that some people do not believe this. But you are right, there were other horrors of WW II that unfortunately were eclipsed by the goings on in Auschwitz and Dachau. I didnt mean to try and piss on what you was saying, but I know what you meant that sometimes the smaller picture is ignored.

Im glad you are with me on most of it, I not trying to rabble rouse and I thought this would make for an interesting topic. For every person that does believe in Evolution, you'll equally find someone who additionally believes that the Moon Landings were faked or that the Government was responsible for the JFK assassination or 911.

**Hazard** · 05-18-2010, 08:50 AM

Originally Posted by AlphaGenetics

I think the four topics you put up for discussion are facts since the validity of said issues are proven by scientific research. Now the big bang theory, for us to understand whats really going on out there is like ants trying to understand why dsm likes to frollip thru the tullips with his pink panties on.

1st of all..... nobody will ever understand DSM's motivation for doing that..... except possibly for Hoggage.....

secondly...... To understand the big bang..... one has to believe that something can be made from nothing. From what we currently understand..... it seems as if there was nothing but pure energy out there - obviously energy isn't visible. This energy was moving around and started grouping together. It started heating up..... and eventually exploded. This explosion was so hot..... it formed molecules of hydrogen and carbon...... durring the intense heat in the moments after the bang..... other molecules were formed - creating new elements. This is one of the big bang beliefs.

Most of the others require a beliefe in other universes existing and a big bang happening when 2 universes collide.....

~Haz~

**AlphaGenetics** · 05-18-2010, 10:01 AM

Originally Posted by Hazard

1st of all..... nobody will ever understand DSM's motivation for doing that..... except possibly for Hoggage.....

secondly...... To understand the big bang..... one has to believe that something can be made from nothing. From what we currently understand..... it seems as if there was nothing but pure energy out there - obviously energy isn't visible. This energy was moving around and started grouping together. It started heating up..... and eventually exploded. This explosion was so hot..... it formed molecules of hydrogen and carbon...... durring the intense heat in the moments after the bang..... other molecules were formed - creating new elements. This is one of the big bang beliefs.

Most of the others require a beliefe in other universes existing and a big bang happening when 2 universes collide.....

~Haz~

Good theory.
I think scientists are starting to understand a small amount of "what" is out there such as dark matter and the bending of space and time, and we will understand more as we evolve, but we will never understand "Why"

**thegodfather** · 05-18-2010, 10:15 AM

Flagg..... yes, we can prove mutability of the species, but we can not currently prove that species evolve into entirely different species. Hence where the expression "the missing link" comes from.

**Flagg** · 05-18-2010, 11:59 AM

It depends on what you define as "evolving into entirely different species" because speciation is exactly that.

A species can be defined as a group of similar organisms that can interbreed to produce fertile offspring. Speciation is the process by which new species evolve from a single ancestral species. This can occur due to geographical isolation or habitat fragmentation. A small population could become isolated from the main group, and the small population can only share genes with each other. Over time they will evolve independency to the point that if they came back into contact with the original group, they could not interbreed. You can see examples of this with marine fish becoming freshwater fishe over time.

The missing link is simply missing information. Phylogentic trees have pretty much established that homo sapiens, chimpanzees, gorillas and orangutans had a common ancestor. Phylogenetic trees can only be compiled through a combination of DNA and fossil records, DNA has established how genetically similiar we are to other apes, its just lack of fossils currently that is depriving the puzzel of the final piece.

**Shinalynn** · 05-18-2010, 07:02 PM

Has anyone seen Steven Hawkings new series thingy on Discovery? It comes on Sunday nights here. The show addresses most of the issues with the Big Bang Theory, as well as evolution. Its pretty awesome.

**AlphaGenetics** · 05-18-2010, 08:57 PM

Originally Posted by Shinalynn

Has anyone seen Steven Hawkings new series thingy on Discovery? It comes on Sunday nights here. The show addresses most of the issues with the Big Bang Theory, as well as evolution. Its pretty awesome.

Ive seen it advertised but havent watched it yet. Im interested in what he has to say now that he finally admitted that "information is not lost" lol

**warchild** · 05-18-2010, 09:02 PM

Originally Posted by Vitruvian-Man

Global warming: It's called climate-change.

Evolution: yes, it's a 'theory.' but it uses scientific analysis as a basis; whereas, creationism relies on 'the omniscient word of god' (great source right there btw

). Honestly, people who don't believe in this theory are just plain ignorant IMO. Anyone who just claims "it's a theory for a reason" seriously, wtf. Please show me any scientific data that proves creationism to be correct in any such way. (please don't post me links to ridiculous fundamentalist/extremist Christian's.... I'm not interested.)

If ANYONE could prove the theory of evolution wrong they would effectively prove hundreds of thousands of the worlds top scientific minds to be incorrect, and would have to be awarded a nobel prize for there discovery. Let's just open our eyes here people. It doesn't take a rocket-scientist to realize that we evolved from apes.

Holocaust: it occurred. no ifs ands or buts. both my grandparents were forced to live in a concentration camp for 3 years, and my grandmother died; however, my grandfather survived the ordeal to tell his story. If you could here even a minute of the horrors he has told me, you would be balling your eyes out. The Holocaust was the most horrific act of genocide in human history; hands down..

If you want to deny that it happened, then you should get on a ship and cruise over to N. Korea.

9/11 denial: I have no opinion on this. People can believe what they want. It happened, and it was an awful awful experience. That's the bottom line for me.

I'm sure some of these answers will stir the pot, lol.

-VM

look into unit 731 and tell me what you think is worse...