AR-15 tech question for gun guys

**Nooomoto** · 06-25-2010, 10:51 PM

Ok, so about a year ago I bought an Olympic Arms Ar-15 to screw around with because I didn't want to beat on my Colts which are rather expensive.

I didn't shoot it much, maybe 200 rounds through it. This past couple weeks I was at Fort Bragg and was on the shooting range doing some heavy shooting, and I started having problems.

After every 2-3 rounds the bolt would remain back, and not load the next round. I'd have to hit the bolt catch release to allow it to slide forward and chamber the next round.

My buddy and I figured it was just due to the weapon being new, so we stripped it, oiled the shit out of it and continued. It started doing it every 5-6 rounds. We stripped it again, some oil on the buffer spring figuring that might be the problem. My friend rapid fired about 20 rounds through it, the last two fired with one trigger pull...UH OH.

So then I started shooting it again, after a full magazine, it double loaded two rounds into the chamber. I cleared the jam and started again, it then did the double-fire thing to me. Two rounds with one trigger pull.

We discovered that when cycling the weapon, if you don't fully depress and release the trigger after each round, it will fire two rounds.

This situation can be replicated with a standard military function check on the rifle. I can make the rifle fire two rounds with one trigger pull.

I emailed Oly Arms and didnt get a response. Searching the web I found that there is one guy that handles warranty work and he's a cockface. I figure he just won't reply. My phone calls went unanswered.

At this point I'm thinking to replace the lower receiver parts with a new parts kit from DPMS or something.

Any suggestions?

Thanks.

**o-lineman60** · 06-25-2010, 10:58 PM

What kind of ammo were you firing through it? My familiy and I collect guns and we used to have an old AR model. I have found that the type of ammo you fire with it depends on this shit. Also, there might be some problems with the parts. When you double fire, are you pulling very lightly on the trigger? Post a picture of the open bolt. (pull the pins of it out and let the barrel and gun slide forward.) I will check with my dad cuz he is the real expert when it comes to this and get back to you tomorrow sometime.

**Skyler** · 06-25-2010, 11:03 PM

I don't have any experience on that EXACT weapon, but I have ALOT of time behind an M-16 A2. What you are describing actually happened alot. It was usually the magazine. It sounds stupid, but the way the magazine is held in is pretty basic and not very secure, so if the magazine would shift forward too much, or be going in with pressure in one direction or the other, etc. It would cause the bolt to keep getting caught, double fire, etc. We realized it happened most of the time because of resting the rifle on or against the magazine while in the prone supported position, or using it as a handle/brace in any other firing position.
Dirt and grime only make the problem worse. One day, it was about 50 degrees outside, wet, muddy, etc. We were running from barrier, to car, to building, firing the whole way, covering each other while we moved, etc.
By the end, I was having to drop my magazine, clear the chamber, and reload literally after every other round.

Hope you get it figured out.

**Nooomoto** · 06-25-2010, 11:12 PM

Originally Posted by o-lineman60

What kind of ammo were you firing through it? My familiy and I collect guns and we used to have an old AR model. I have found that the type of ammo you fire with it depends on this shit. Also, there might be some problems with the parts. When you double fire, are you pulling very lightly on the trigger? Post a picture of the open bolt. (pull the pins of it out and let the barrel and gun slide forward.) I will check with my dad cuz he is the real expert when it comes to this and get back to you tomorrow sometime.

I was shooting midgrade ammo, not the cheap steel cased garbage, but not top of the line either. Fiocchi 55gr I believe. The double-fire situation happens when not fully depressing and fully releasing the trigger after each cycle.

I'll try to get a picture, my camera broke on this same trip...so all I've got is my phone cam at the moment and that probably won't help.

I don't have any experience on that EXACT weapon, but I have ALOT of time behind an M-16 A2. What you are describing actually happened alot. It was usually the magazine. It sounds stupid, but the way the magazine is held in is pretty basic and not very secure, so if the magazine would shift forward too much, or be going in with pressure in one direction or the other, etc. It would cause the bolt to keep getting caught, double fire, etc. We realized it happened most of the time because of resting the rifle on or against the magazine while in the prone supported position, or using it as a handle/brace in any other firing position.
Dirt and grime only make the problem worse. One day, it was about 50 degrees outside, wet, muddy, etc. We were running from barrier, to car, to building, firing the whole way, covering each other while we moved, etc.
By the end, I was having to drop my magazine, clear the chamber, and reload literally after every other round.

We thought it might be the magazine, too. We tried 5 different mags and got the same result. Mind you, I can replicate the double-fire situation with the weapon stripped down, or empty while doing a function check. We found that the bolt catch release is a little "loose", the spring doesn't allow it to return fully to its original position. My friend said he could file down where it catches about 2mm and that might fix the issue, but said he didn't want to as we aren't in Afghanistan and can get it fixed properly. I agreed.

This bolt catch issue doesn't really explain the double-firing, though. That sounds more like a sear issue.

**DOM6** · 06-25-2010, 11:18 PM

go on Ar15.com
i posted your situation on there, waiting for people to chime in

is it double feeding itself? or is it chambering a round, then your pulling the CH
ok i see you posted that your catch is lose, maybe the reason why, why did you buy that ar?

**Nooomoto** · 06-25-2010, 11:26 PM

No I haven't swapped any parts between the rifles. It does the double feeding on it's own. You can also hear a lighter hammer strike when the 2nd round is fired during the double-fire situation.

**DOM6** · 06-25-2010, 11:32 PM

well if you hold the trigger, pull the bcg back to the catch, keep holding the trigger, release bolt then let go of trigger "It should Click" then pull trigger again " it should click/fire again" see if it does this?
MAKE SURE ITS EMPTY 1ST

**DOM6** · 06-25-2010, 11:34 PM

so far there saying bad mag

**Nooomoto** · 06-25-2010, 11:36 PM

Originally Posted by DOM6

well if you hold the trigger, pull the bcg back to the catch, keep holding the trigger, release bolt then let go of trigger "It should Click" then pull trigger again " it should click/fire again" see if it does this?
MAKE SURE ITS EMPTY 1ST

1. Pull and do not release trigger
2. Pull back charging handle while holding trigger
3. Release charging handle, then release trigger
Click
4. Pull and do not release trigger
Fire
5. While holding trigger down, pull back charging handle again
6. Release charging handle, release trigger
Fire

This is the situation in which I can fire 2 rounds with one trigger pull. It fires the 2nd round upon RELEASE of the trigger.

**DOM6** · 06-25-2010, 11:38 PM

any mods on this gun? free float? or just stock out the box

**Nooomoto** · 06-25-2010, 11:39 PM

Originally Posted by DOM6

any mods on this gun? free float? or just stock out the box

Bone stock.

**DOM6** · 06-25-2010, 11:41 PM

Originally Posted by Nooomoto

1. Pull and do not release trigger
2. Pull back charging handle while holding trigger
3. Release charging handle, then release trigger
Click
4. Pull and do not release trigger
Fire
5. While holding trigger down, pull back charging handle again
6. Release charging handle, release trigger
Fire

This is the situation in which I can fire 2 rounds with one trigger pull. It fires the 2nd round upon RELEASE of the trigger.

This is called a ALL SYSTEMS CHECK this means the gun is working properly
This is the same thing i just told you to do.
Why were you doing this with ammo in there?

**Nooomoto** · 06-25-2010, 11:44 PM

Originally Posted by DOM6

This is called a ALL SYSTEMS CHECK this means the gun is working properly
This is the same thing i just told you to do.
Why were you doing this with ammo in there?

LMAO...no dude. I wasn't doing it with ammo in there. I was at the range on Fort Bragg and there were plenty of Army guys around. They were trying to figure out why it would shoot 2 rounds with one trigger pull, and it did what I described. They said if this happened to them the weapon would fail the test and they'd have to turn it in for a new one.

What I'm trying to understand is why this happens while under normal operation of shooting the weapon. I'm assuming it has something to do with having to release the bolt again after every round, every other round, etc.

Imagine you're shooting and you pull the trigger to fire a round, then you release the trigger and it fires another round. Get what I'm saying?

**DOM6** · 06-25-2010, 11:52 PM

Originally Posted by Nooomoto

LMAO...no dude. I wasn't doing it with ammo in there. I was at the range on Fort Bragg and there were plenty of Army guys around. They were trying to figure out why it would shoot 2 rounds with one trigger pull, and it did what I described. They said if this happened to them the weapon would fail the test and they'd have to turn it in for a new one.

What I'm trying to understand is why this happens while under normal operation of shooting the weapon. I'm assuming it has something to do with having to release the bolt again after every round, every other round, etc.

Army guys do this to make sure it works, "Trust me i know" 2 clicks measn its working correctly, pull your lower off, hold trigger n press hammer down as the same way the bolt would n let go of trigger n pull, youll get 2 clicks, for the fail to fire its a bottom of the barrel ar, id rather go out with a $129 russian nuget,
go on ar15 and get on the equipment exchange, ive built 8 ars from other peoples used parts or check out "stag"

**Nooomoto** · 06-25-2010, 11:56 PM

Originally Posted by DOM6

Army guys do this to make sure it works, "Trust me i know" 2 clicks measn its working correctly, pull your lower off, hold trigger n press hammer down as the same way the bolt would n let go of trigger n pull, youll get to clicks, for the fail to fire its a bottom of the barrel ar, id rather go out with a $129 russian nuget,
go on ar15 and get on the equipment exchange, ive built 8 ars from other peoples used parts or check out "stag"

Yeah I figured I'd be replacing the lower internals. Thanks for the help.

**DOM6** · 06-25-2010, 11:57 PM

My babys

**Nooomoto** · 06-26-2010, 12:44 AM

Very nice...!

**Nooomoto** · 06-27-2010, 11:36 PM

Just to update, took it to the gun shop where I purchased the rifle. They stripped it down and found that the bolt catch release spring was MISSING. Mind you, this rifle has only been field stripped since it left the factory, so I can only assume they just neglected to install it!!!

Bought a DPMS lower parts kit and installed it. Haven't been to the range yet but the function test doesn't yield the weapon firing upon release of the trigger...so hopefully that took care of it.

I'm still going to hound Oly Arms as if I hadn't purchased the DPMS kit and want warranty repair. Monday morning I'm going to call and threaten to inform ATF of them selling me a weapon capable of firing more than one round per trigger pull if my warranty needs aren't met.