Why is there EVIL?

**Bojangles69** · 11-19-2010, 08:22 PM

Well there seems to be a difference between perceptual evil and innate evil.

Innate evil is when someone points a gun at your face and w/out needing to think your body reacts to that evil in order to preserve itself through something we call "fear".
If you're a gang member, who gets guns pointed at you everday, then that situation will seem less evil.
If you're an avg citizen, it will seem like the most evil thing anyones ever done to you.

Therefore, a large part of what makes evil EVIL, is ignorance.
This plays out on the media by the way certain crimes are portayed depending on the type of neighborhood they happen in.
If a poor black family got raped/murdered/burned alive in some shitty broken down section of newark, the media wouldn't portray it as evil as when
a rich white sheltered family in cheshire conneticut gets raped/murdered/burned alive (like the petit killings).

Evil is mispercieved or exagerated just from happening to people who you can empathize with or who are like you. "Wow they were white... I'm white. The daughter was going to school and plays tennis... I go to school and play tennis... THAT IS SO FVCKN EVIL!!!!"

But if they lived somewhere in south africa, and were uneducated, or just lived in a part of the world we consider "uncivilized" the evil somehow becomes less than when it happens close to home.
Evil really is such an individual term. Not everyone on this planet believes rape is evil, or murder, or selling drugs, or molesting children.
The majority may, but because evil is such a large social construct, the "roots" are always in our own minds.

Evil is just a word humans invented to classify ANYTHING that jeapordizes their own survival. So that implies a certain degree of selfishness
and ignorance like I already said. Evil is not the cow who gets slaughtered to keep our dinner tables brimming with food, evil is when
someone cuts us off on the highway and we almost swerve into uncoming traffic.

But the point is you can talk about evil all day long and at the end of the day you haven't really learned anything groundbreaking.
Why not have a thread about where "good" comes from? We'd be talking about the same subjective forces just in a different way.
The more good there is in our lives, the worse that evil seems, and the more evil there is the better the good seems.

In terms of "innate" evil however although rape and child molestation are bad, I still think murder is the most evil act in the world.
Whether its another human being, a chicken, a dog, murder implies having no respect for life, and I think thats the true evil in this world.
I remember watching "The First 48" a couple nights ago (for anyone who doesn't know the show its a reality series based on murder/crime
scene investigation) and one of the detectives had made a remark like "I see people getting shot, innocent children getting sold into
prostituion, rape, robbery.... but the one thing I still can't understand is the lack of value some of these people have for human life"
and THATS what I think of when I think of evil.

Its NOT just killing someone, its believing on the most fundamental level possible, that you are more important than the man next to you.
And what makes evil so interesting to me, is the fact that 100% of people have it inside themselves right now. Just believing
that humans are more important than an animal like a cow is a belief based on evil. Yet look how many humans eat meat w/out hesitation.
Thats why I accept to an extent, that just by being human, I'm already evil, and already ignorant, so I really need to be careful in how I point my finger
at other "evil" people.

**SomeRandomGuy** · 11-19-2010, 08:48 PM

Well there's good and evil in everyone, it's just how balanced can you make yourself.

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**crazy_rocks** · 11-19-2010, 08:51 PM

evil exists because we have the ability to make choices

**Flagg** · 11-19-2010, 09:07 PM

Evil is a totally subjective term.

I lean towards the belief of Absurdism and Existentionalism, that is, there is NO MEANING to the world beyond what MAN GIVES IT. Life evolves, and it either stagnates, or dies.

What is considered evil by someone, is not evil by someone else. Who is right? Evil, good, right or wrong, are purely subjective terms, expressions brought about by the human brains desperate ability to quantify everything around it.

The lion and the buffalo calf is a perfect example. The act isn't evil, it's nothing. It happened. If the lion didn't eat the calf, the lion might have died of starvation. So then you are faced with, what is more important, the calf or the lion. The answer is neither.

Chaos and order are the only real observable phenomena in the world. Nature will always strive for balance, as organisms try to fill a niche. People completely disrupt nature and the order of things, and because of how we are, we are outside the boundries of nature now. For example, thanks to people, invasive species are rife around the world. Cane toads are a major pest in Australia because they are not indeginous and have no predators or control methods. This doesn't normally occur naturally as pests will have control mechanisms. The point im making though, is it wrong/evil that this happened? It's irresponsible because of people, but the Cane toad is only acting according to its nature, and simply replacing everthing elses importance with it's own. Stability will be returned when either the Cane toad has depleted it's food source and dies, or everything around it evolves at a fast enough rate to compete or predate.

A bit like people. However because we apply things like "evil, good, right and wrong", there is nothing controling our species growth. It is completely unacceptable to us for any other animal to eat us, its totally unacceptable for us to die, etcetera. We'll eventually reach a point where we cannot sustain ourselves because we'll have stripped every single resource bare on the planet. Nothing can compete with us evolutionary wise, because we have technology and medicine and the power of invention on our side. So, will we eventually just die out?

It's amazing that we developed philosophies, technology, awareness that there are billions of stars and planets around us, can cook, create art, and know about atoms and have a massive understanding of the natural world around us. But nothing lasts forever, and we're no different. I sometimes wonder if we'd have been better off not becoming so fuly self aware and inventing concepts such as "evil" and "good", because those are flaws in many ways that jeapordises not only our own survival but just about that of everything else around us. We are like a SUPER PEST. Is that wrong or evil. No, it just is.

EDIT: Bojangles, that's pretty good take on the subject. However, you say murder is the most "evil act" in the world. Do you think murder and killing are the same? For instance, a lion kills a antelope for food. Is that murder really? The lion is a carnivore, it's not polyphagus (ability to eat most things) so it has to kill other organisms to survive. If there werent carnivores, herbivores would consume all their food source, and die out themselves. The only difference is, we're a super predator, we have no fear of predation or even disease. Because of that we're in essence, a super pest now. Humans aren't good or evil, we're chaotic, we completely defy nature and as a result, we are stripping the planet bare of all resources because we are not controlled. We are our own worst enemy, and most of us don't even realise it. One thing though, humans seem to delight in "cruelty" more so than animals, which I find a very strange and sadistic side effect of being vastly more intelligent than all other species.

**Flagg** · 11-19-2010, 09:32 PM

Originally Posted by D7M

But some things have remained as universally accepted acts that are morally unacceptable because they are against the common good, right?

Like murder, rape, theft.

I can't think of one example of any society in known history where these have changed.

So then those aren't just "evil" by perception, or evil because of societal norms and mores.

The only thing that seems to change, like peaks and valleys, is a society's views on sexuality.

If two men are beating my parents or sister with clubs, they are each twice my size and will not listen to reason, and will not stop until my family is dead, but I hold a rifle in my hand, is it "evil" if I shoot the two men dead?

If my parents and sister are starving because we live in an impoverished part of the world and because of a corrupt government, it is near impossible to feed my family because of financial hardship, is it "evil" of me to steal a loaf of bread to feed them, lest they starve.

If I have sex with a girl of 16 in one country where that is the age of consent, am I considered a rapist in another country because the age of consent is 18?

Evil and good are just terms we use to try and make ourselves feel better because we're self obsessed, self absorbed and self righteous, but ultimately plagued with guilt.

**SomeRandomGuy** · 11-20-2010, 12:41 AM

You're right about the Existentialism and Absurdism, it sure does ring true, doesn't it?

The reason we adopt the value systems we do is because of Intersubjectivity:

You create your own world, but you also live amongst other worlds...

And we'll copy some Freud:

When the ego is personified, it is like a slave to three harsh masters: the id, the super-ego, and the external world. It has to do its best to suit all three, thus is constantly feeling hemmed by the danger of causing discontent on two other sides. It is said, however, that the ego seems to be more loyal to the id, preferring to gloss over the finer details of reality to minimize conflicts while pretending to have a regard for reality. But the super-ego is constantly watching every one of the ego's moves and punishes it with feelings of guilt, anxiety, and inferiority. To overcome this the ego employs defense mechanisms. The defense mechanisms are not done so directly or consciously. They lessen the tension by covering up our impulses that are threatening.[6]

You said something about guilt

.

**n00bs** · 11-20-2010, 01:35 AM

The lion didn't rape the calf

**Skyler** · 11-20-2010, 01:47 AM

^^^^
can't figure our if that's serious, sarcasm, or a joke

**SomeRandomGuy** · 11-20-2010, 02:38 AM

Originally Posted by n00bs

The lion didn't rape the calf

An allegory to human behavior. But some animals do select unwilling mates for sex. Maybe it isn't rape, but that's just because since they're a lower form of animal, it isn't wrong.

**n00bs** · 11-20-2010, 02:51 AM

Yes it's evil because we consciously know better..

Evil is just a word to describe something..

**Bojangles69** · 11-20-2010, 03:04 AM

Originally Posted by Flagg

EDIT: Bojangles, that's pretty good take on the subject. However, you say murder is the most "evil act" in the world. Do you think murder and killing are the same? For instance, a lion kills a antelope for food. Is that murder really? The lion is a carnivore, it's not polyphagus (ability to eat most things) so it has to kill other organisms to survive. If there werent carnivores, herbivores would consume all their food source, and die out themselves. The only difference is, we're a super predator, we have no fear of predation or even disease. Because of that we're in essence, a super pest now. Humans aren't good or evil, we're chaotic, we completely defy nature and as a result, we are stripping the planet bare of all resources because we are not controlled. We are our own worst enemy, and most of us don't even realise it. One thing though, humans seem to delight in "cruelty" more so than animals, which I find a very strange and sadistic side effect of being vastly more intelligent than all other species.

I have no idea why I wrote it like that tbh it sounds rather extreme/stupid lol.
I think what I mean though is murder to another human being, lions killing lions is just killing. Its not malice aforementioned or w/e the legal term is for murder.
And with humans killing animals I mean a percentage evil, but that theres still always this innate evil in everything. Even a puppy. Because it will grow up and eat
its young and its own shit because it doesn't give a puppy fvck.

I made my point terribly really I should just stick to dating/relationships for now on haha.

**calgarian** · 11-22-2010, 10:23 AM

Evil exsists because all of u meat heads are on test. And steroids make u evil....damn u guys are slow....

**Bio-boosted** · 11-25-2010, 06:31 AM

There is evil because people want more than they have, want something for free or for simply for the sake of wanting notoriety.

**Times Roman** · 11-25-2010, 09:16 AM

Evil is just what breaks up the good

***D7M*** · 11-25-2010, 09:42 AM

Originally Posted by Flagg

If two men are beating my parents or sister with clubs, they are each twice my size and will not listen to reason, and will not stop until my family is dead, but I hold a rifle in my hand, is it "evil" if I shoot the two men dead?

If my parents and sister are starving because we live in an impoverished part of the world and because of a corrupt government, it is near impossible to feed my family because of financial hardship, is it "evil" of me to steal a loaf of bread to feed them, lest they starve.

If I have sex with a girl of 16 in one country where that is the age of consent, am I considered a rapist in another country because the age of consent is 18?

Evil and good are just terms we use to try and make ourselves feel better because we're self obsessed, self absorbed and self righteous, but ultimately plagued with guilt.

I wouldn't consider any of your examples "evil".

Those are just examples of differences in sociological norms and mores.

But what about killing an innocent baby just for kicks (not sacrifice, not vengeance). Absolutely no motive, than just to kill.

I don't think there's any society where's that acceptable.

Point is, there are plenty of examples of things that are evil in se, and not just differences in how society perceives them.

**Skyler** · 11-25-2010, 10:15 AM

Originally Posted by D7M

I wouldn't consider any of your examples "evil".

Those are just examples of differences in sociological norms and mores.

But what about killing an innocent baby just for kicks (not sacrifice, not vengeance). Absolutely no motive, than just to kill.

I don't think there's any society where's that acceptable.

Point is, there are plenty of examples of things that are evil in se, and not just differences in how society perceives them.

You would only perceive that as evil because you didn't understand it. If you found out that the person who killed the baby had a severe mental disorder alond with strong emotional problems, who didn't really understand the severity of what he was doing (he knew he was killing for "fun", but due to his mental state, didn't understand the severity of the act the way you or I do), then it would still be horrible, awful, tragic, wrong, etc. but the description of "evil" would fall right back to individual perception.

**Skyler** · 11-25-2010, 10:16 AM

Oh and Happy Thanksgiving.

***D7M*** · 11-25-2010, 10:19 AM

Originally Posted by Skyler

You would only perceive that as evil because you didn't understand it. If you found out that the person who killed the baby had a severe mental disorder alond with strong emotional problems, who didn't really understand the severity of what he was doing (he knew he was killing for "fun", but due to his mental state, didn't understand the severity of the act the way you or I do), then it would still be horrible, awful, tragic, wrong, etc. but the description of "evil" would fall right back to individual perception.

hahah...you can't do that!

That wasn't my example!

My example assumes that the agent is in full emotional and mental control.

**Knockout_Power** · 11-25-2010, 10:31 AM

Again, "Evil" is just preception... why are cigarettes legal, why is alcohol legal, why is fast food legal... these can all come down to choices like most other things.

**Skyler** · 11-25-2010, 10:33 AM

I have never heard of any completely sane, healthy, logical person doing something even close to that bad. If we are going to use examples to strategically set up the perfect scenario for how evil could exist, than it's no different than using theories to set up an example of how life on other planets "could" exist (I do believe in exta terrestrial life, though). It comes down to being no more than a theory based on a hypothetical "perfect storm" of activities. Though, the fact that there could ever be anyone in the world, in any type of mental state, that could ever kill a baby for fun, proves that there are even more people through the world that must exist that could somehow view it as "not evil". So it goes right back to individual perception.

**Knockout_Power** · 11-25-2010, 10:34 AM

And why is this legal? Makes me want to do very bad things...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVvcYsn5POg

**Knockout_Power** · 11-25-2010, 10:36 AM

and then again, who is defining this "Evil"... I think some religions do not condone masterbation... hell, I sinned twice in the shower this morning

**Skyler** · 11-25-2010, 10:42 AM

Originally Posted by Knockout_Power

and then again, who is defining this "Evil"... I think some religions do not condone masterbation... hell, I sinned twice in the shower this morning

This is exactly why I say that evil is in perception

**DSM4Life** · 11-25-2010, 10:44 AM

True peace inhabits in one place only...

**Knockout_Power** · 11-25-2010, 10:47 AM

edited

**DSM4Life** · 11-25-2010, 10:49 AM

**Knockout_Power** · 11-25-2010, 10:53 AM

edited

**Knockout_Power** · 11-25-2010, 10:53 AM

edited

**Standby** · 11-25-2010, 10:58 AM

Originally Posted by Knockout_Power

Evil just comes down to choices and thats it...

puss

**DSM4Life** · 11-25-2010, 11:41 AM

**Knockout_Power** · 11-25-2010, 01:01 PM

edited

***D7M*** · 11-25-2010, 05:13 PM

Plenty of threads to whore pics in guys,

we had a good discussion going.

God, this lounge just went down hill in the last few years

**sdmlsu1** · 11-26-2010, 03:02 AM

Originally Posted by D7M

Plenty of threads to whore pics in guys,

we had a good discussion going.

God, this lounge just went down hill in the last few years

The MIA Theologian...

**Times Roman** · 11-27-2010, 12:00 PM

Evil is a verb, not a noun

**Flagg** · 11-27-2010, 12:49 PM

Originally Posted by D7M

I wouldn't consider any of your examples "evil".

Those are just examples of differences in sociological norms and mores.

But what about killing an innocent baby just for kicks (not sacrifice, not vengeance). Absolutely no motive, than just to kill.

I don't think there's any society where's that acceptable.

Point is, there are plenty of examples of things that are evil in se, and not just differences in how society perceives them.

Before I answer, I wish anyone starting a new thread had some sort of power because stuff like those pics are a bit annoying in the content of this thread. Nice one DSM...

As for infant killing. Organisms are normally defined as being "r selected" or "k selected" species. R selected species are things like fish or insects. They have absolutely thousands of offspring, but then move on and leave them to fend for themselves. Many will die, but the few that survive will go on to become adults and repeat the cycle. K selected organisms are things like elephants or humans. These species will only have a small amount of offspring but the parents will devote a ton of time and energy to rearing them.

I know my answer seems somewhat clinical, but because we are K selected creatures, protecting our young is as much a "natural thing" as it is something imgrained into society, so seeing child murder as abhorent to us is quite a natural reaction. Are fish and insects evil for neglecting their young? The answer is of course no, because to look after thousands of eggs is not feasible or possible.

Why do people kill for kicks? Well, I mentioned before, one thing that sets us apart from the vast majority of other animals is the propensity for cruelty. Cruelty and torture is very much a part of what we are. I can only think of cats (even big cats like lions) and chimpanzees that exhibit similar behaviour.