How to FIX the education and political system?

**Twist** · 06-20-2011, 12:07 PM

Education: We need to run it like a business. Model it after google. Discussions, open thinking, arguments and debates. Just like businesses cash flow should be a huge focus. Profit can be producing intelligent people, but income has to be equal to or greater than expenses. Schools now are run by people who know nothing about how to run a business.

Political System: IMO the single best thing we can do is take all measures to separate all lobbying interests and corporate/small business cash from politicians. That's what needs to happen. Once that happens, the interests of the people will be on the table. There will still be corruption, but much less and it will be illegal and therefore ramifications.

**gixxerboy1** · 06-20-2011, 02:29 PM

the education system needs to be scrapped and started over. Most teachers teach the same way as they did 50 years ago. The curriculum needs to be updated. We have made no advance's in education in years.

For politics i agree campaign finance laws need to be stricter. Lobbying groups eliminated. Why do you think politicians will spend so much of their $ to get elected to a job that does pay as much as they spend. Cause they know the kick backs are worth it.

**Times Roman** · 06-20-2011, 09:36 PM

.... oh Im gunna get me a gun and shoot all the politicians i see......

**LGM** · 06-20-2011, 10:06 PM

1. Eliminate federal funding and nationally mandated test scores. State control only.

2. Eliminate the two party system.

There you go; piece of cake.

**lovbyts** · 06-21-2011, 01:23 AM

Originally Posted by gixxerboy1

the education system needs to be scrapped and started over. Most teachers teach the same way as they did 50 years ago. The curriculum needs to be updated. We have made no advance's in education in years.

For politics i agree campaign finance laws need to be stricter. Lobbying groups eliminated. Why do you think politicians will spend so much of their $ to get elected to a job that does pay as much as they spend. Cause they know the kick backs are worth it.

Actually it's changed a lot if you look at things but it's all for the worse. They got away from the basics. They no longer teach kids how to read, write, math, real science or history. They teach them how to be social, how to put the right things in the right place. No creative thinking. Basically they teach you how to be a good employee just like George Carlyn said.

**Twist** · 06-21-2011, 02:09 AM

HOW TO FIX THE PROBLEM?

We are all well aware of the problems.

**Flagg** · 06-21-2011, 02:02 PM

Twist you sound like a crusader, mate! It's all good though, it's refreshing to see someone who actually cares about what goes on in this world. Too many people are apathetic, and so long as they got access to junk food and even shitter reality TV shows, they couldn't care less what is going on around them.

**Hazard** · 06-21-2011, 03:35 PM

Put a donation cap on the fvcking politicians campaigns! Presidential candidates will be allowed no more than $50 million in donations. Maybe they'll cut out unnecessary spending on slander campaigns and it'll eliminate the big corporations from donating $50 million each..... oh and maybe it'll spark some creative thinking on the candidates part on how to run a successful campaign ithout wasting a billion fvcking dollars......

~Haz~

**Hazard** · 06-21-2011, 03:36 PM

It pisses me off when you hear "candidate xxx spent $225 million on his run for president" - i mean wtf..... and one guy is gunna lose! What a waste.....

~Haz~

**Shol'va** · 06-21-2011, 05:20 PM

Originally Posted by Hazard

It pisses me off when you hear "candidate xxx spent $225 million on his run for president" - i mean wtf..... and one guy is gunna lose! What a waste.....

~Haz~

Not only that but don't you find it just a wee bit suspicious that any politician would spend any money in that amount for a job that only pays 400 grand a year? You know that the system is corrupt. In America it's all about the money. But it's still the best country out there, even with all our faults, IMO.

**Shol'va** · 06-21-2011, 05:37 PM

[QUOTE=gixxerboy1;5674526]the education system needs to be scrapped and started over. Most teachers teach the same way as they did 50 years ago. The curriculum needs to be updated. We have made no advance's in education in years.

I disagree on this point as 50 years ago those teachers had more control in their classrooms and didn't have to worry about little lohnnie bringing in a gun to cap her a$$, and if kids got out of control they were disciplined for it. With a controlled classroom their is much greater potential for learning for all but that has been taken away from the schools. Parents nowadays refuse to have their children disciplined for any reason at schools, and even force the school system to allow the kids total use of cell phones in the classrooms and we are just reaping the rewards of this issue with dumber kids in our society. Todays parents just don't seem to give a crap about their kids, don't want to be bothered or just plain spoil them where they become useless. I say give the educators a chance to teach without all the distractions and we will see smarter children as a result, IMO

**DSM4Life** · 06-21-2011, 05:40 PM

Teachers get paid **** and treated like ****. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out , poor teachers = poor children education which = poor future. At this point i could careless. I am losing all hope in this country.

**gixxerboy1** · 06-21-2011, 05:40 PM

[QUOTE=Shol'va;5675739]

Originally Posted by gixxerboy1

the education system needs to be scrapped and started over. Most teachers teach the same way as they did 50 years ago. The curriculum needs to be updated. We have made no advance's in education in years.

I disagree on this point as 50 years ago those teachers had more control in their classrooms and didn't have to worry about little lohnnie bringing in a gun to cap her a$$, and if kids got out of control they were disciplined for it. With a controlled classroom their is much greater potential for learning for all but that has been taken away from the schools. Parents nowadays refuse to have their children disciplined for any reason at schools, and even force the school system to allow the kids total use of cell phones in the classrooms and we are just reaping the rewards of this issue with dumber kids in our society. Todays parents just don't seem to give a crap about their kids, don't want to be bothered or just plain spoil them where they become useless. I say give the educators a chance to teach without all the distractions and we will see smarter children as a result, IMO

I agree with you, I mean the same by principles

**Hazard** · 06-21-2011, 06:19 PM

Originally Posted by DSM4Life

Teachers get paid **** and treated like ****. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out , poor teachers = poor children education which = poor future. At this point i could careless. I am losing all hope in this country.

I see your point..... but if teachers are getting paid that bad then why do people keep getting into the field. My best friends GF (now ex) is a 4th grade teacher in NJ. She's paying for a 2 bedroom condo (not renting) on her own now and she's living pretty damned good. She loved her job and didn't complain about money. I do realise this is only one teacher out of many in the country so maybe the teachers in this state aren't compensated THAT poorly.

It would just seem to me that if any job was THAT bad..... there would be a hard time filling positions. Hell.... they needed male nurses so bad that they offered all sorts of benefits for them..... and they came. I'm just so sick of hearing NJ teachers bitch and complain about not being compensated well..... when they're making a full years salary in 9 months. Then they get a part time job over the summer and add to it.....

Life isn't easy on anyone..... hell.... I could go on about how it's bullshit that medicare is cutting back on approving shit. Health insurance is reimbursing less and the hospitals are strong arming device companies to come in at lower bids or they'll be replaced by competition. Thats life.... If you don't like the job then get out.....

~Haz~

**gixxerboy1** · 06-21-2011, 06:57 PM

^^^ agreed and they really only work 9 months out of the year.

My cousin was a teacher and now a guidance counselor in NJ making 120k

**Shol'va** · 06-21-2011, 07:19 PM

Yeah I think that most of the really good teachers either get frustrated by the system or can't make ends meet on their salary and move on to better paying jobs. So their are several causes for the system failure. problem is that we and our country suffer for it. Better educations mean brighter students, better competition with the rest of the world, better ideas, better incomes, society as a whole benefits. It's a win win situation that needs to be overhauled and nourished in America if we are to continue to compete and survive without falling into a third world status which is the way it seems that we are now headed.

**Twist** · 06-21-2011, 09:29 PM

Originally Posted by Hazard

Put a donation cap on the fvcking politicians campaigns! Presidential candidates will be allowed no more than $50 million in donations. Maybe they'll cut out unnecessary spending on slander campaigns and it'll eliminate the big corporations from donating $50 million each..... oh and maybe it'll spark some creative thinking on the candidates part on how to run a successful campaign ithout wasting a billion fvcking dollars......

~Haz~

This was my original thought too Haz. But here's what happens. Someone goes into an important position, let's call that person...Idk... Palin, then they get to make important decisions. Companies lobby for this person in hopes they get elected. Now if we cap the donations, or for some reason the lobbying group doesn't want to be shown as a lobbying group, the corporation has to do something else. Enter person 2, let's call her... Bristol Palin - Palin's daughter. Now Sarah Palin fights for the rights of a corporation and soon after the results of the election, Bristol Palin gets nominated as head of XXXX at the same corporation and she makes tons of money.

We have to fix this by completely separating corporate interests from public interests. There is no other way around it. As long as corporate money is in politicians pockets, we are screwed. If I took office and Chevron wanted to pay me 3million to do something that wasn't against MY morals, I'll take it. People are stupid so who cares if we screw them over? They won't notice anyway.

Anyone who knows teachers personally knows they get paid well for what they have to do. The whole education system is in shambles. Tear it down, start all over. Run each classroom like google or apple or even top hedge funds. Open communication. If a classmate isn't discussing topics they should look like the odd person out, not the other way around. There should be no back row, desks should be in a circle. Cash flow and results should dominate the school. Not test taking results, but creativity, out of the box thinking, and high test scores on critical thinking questions. Math is important and English should be spoken correctly at every level.

If I got the chance to do what I want with just one school, just one, I can guarantee that I could change the system. I'm not a crusader lol. I'm just very interested in everything and I am waiting patiently for my chance to do something remarkable. Unfortunately, that chance may never come.

Originally Posted by Hazard

It pisses me off when you hear "candidate xxx spent $225 million on his run for president" - i mean wtf..... and one guy is gunna lose! What a waste.....

~Haz~

BINGO. They announce this on the radio and on tv constantly and nobody but me seems to scratch their head like, "What the ****? That doesn't make sense." Here spend 400k to land a bank teller job where you will make 30k per year. Good deal? Doesn't add up and wtf is wrong with people.

But i still wanna hear how other people would fix things.

**Times Roman** · 06-22-2011, 02:54 AM

I'll take a stab at fixing the political mess -

cut politician's salaries substantially (don't want them quitting their day jobs) and term limit INDIVIDUALS, not positions, to two terms once they get to a certain level. No career politicians.

**Twist** · 06-23-2011, 12:46 AM

Originally Posted by Times Roman

I'll take a stab at fixing the political mess -

cut politician's salaries substantially (don't want them quitting their day jobs) and term limit INDIVIDUALS, not positions, to two terms once they get to a certain level. No career politicians.

But the corporations will support politicians and in turn give them jobs once they finish their two terms.

**Times Roman** · 06-23-2011, 04:32 AM

Originally Posted by Twist

But the corporations will support politicians and in turn give them jobs once they finish their two terms.

there are ways around this. Since we are playing god here making all the rules, then I'm saying they are only p/t politicians and still hold their day jobs. Therefore, they have jobs waiting after their two terms.

The next step is to institute an ethics review panel similar to what CPA's have to go through. One of the rules for public accountants and public accounting firms, since they used to have this problem as well (leaving public accounting and then going to work for a client firm), is to institute a cooling off period. I would suggest that for as long as a politician served, say 4 years in this case, then the cooling off period would be 4 years. During this time, he is barred from going to work for any company/individual that is associated in any way with his political career. Instead, the politician should go back to work at his old day job.

So, the list of barred potential employers after leaving office would be as follows:

Anyone or any firm/company that has previously made political contributions (money) in any form
Anyone or any firm/company that is within the political scope or jurisdiction of the politician's realm of authority. for example, If i were a state senator, and had been a huge critic of anti gun laws, it would therefore be inappropriate to take a position with the NRA after leaving office.

yes, this is a very restrictive criterion. But it would also prevent sweetheart deals in return for prior political decisions. There should be no Quid Pro Quo.

Look at former president clinton. how many pardons did he give out on his last day in office? and what do you suppose the correlation between that list of pardoned individuals and political favors/cash he received is? Pretty high I would imagine. Why? Because he waited till the 11th hour of the last day to do his dirty deeds.

We need to change the mind set of our politicians from entitlement and privelege, to one of service and sacrifice.

**Times Roman** · 06-23-2011, 04:37 AM

one last thought on the ramblings above.

regarding the politicians day job. It cannot be associated with the office the candidate is running for, unless he quits his day job. Reason here, is that unless we institute this rule, then corporations will put thier cronies in office to do their bidding.

This is a very complex issue, and there will always be obvious flaws with any of these armchair solutions.

**Times Roman** · 06-23-2011, 05:50 AM

Originally Posted by Hazard

I see your point..... but if teachers are getting paid that bad then why do people keep getting into the field. My best friends GF (now ex) is a 4th grade teacher in NJ. She's paying for a 2 bedroom condo (not renting) on her own now and she's living pretty damned good. She loved her job and didn't complain about money. I do realise this is only one teacher out of many in the country so maybe the teachers in this state aren't compensated THAT poorly.

It would just seem to me that if any job was THAT bad..... there would be a hard time filling positions. Hell.... they needed male nurses so bad that they offered all sorts of benefits for them..... and they came. I'm just so sick of hearing NJ teachers bitch and complain about not being compensated well..... when they're making a full years salary in 9 months. Then they get a part time job over the summer and add to it.....

Life isn't easy on anyone..... hell.... I could go on about how it's bullshit that medicare is cutting back on approving shit. Health insurance is reimbursing less and the hospitals are strong arming device companies to come in at lower bids or they'll be replaced by competition. Thats life.... If you don't like the job then get out.....

~Haz~

Teachers in California (10% of the USA population) get paid very well, AND they have an extremely strong union.

**Twist** · 06-24-2011, 01:02 AM

Originally Posted by Times Roman

there are ways around this. Since we are playing god here making all the rules, then I'm saying they are only p/t politicians and still hold their day jobs. Therefore, they have jobs waiting after their two terms.

The next step is to institute an ethics review panel similar to what CPA's have to go through. One of the rules for public accountants and public accounting firms, since they used to have this problem as well (leaving public accounting and then going to work for a client firm), is to institute a cooling off period. I would suggest that for as long as a politician served, say 4 years in this case, then the cooling off period would be 4 years. During this time, he is barred from going to work for any company/individual that is associated in any way with his political career. Instead, the politician should go back to work at his old day job.

So, the list of barred potential employers after leaving office would be as follows:

Anyone or any firm/company that has previously made political contributions (money) in any form
Anyone or any firm/company that is within the political scope or jurisdiction of the politician's realm of authority. for example, If i were a state senator, and had been a huge critic of anti gun laws, it would therefore be inappropriate to take a position with the NRA after leaving office.

yes, this is a very restrictive criterion. But it would also prevent sweetheart deals in return for prior political decisions. There should be no Quid Pro Quo.

Look at former president clinton. how many pardons did he give out on his last day in office? and what do you suppose the correlation between that list of pardoned individuals and political favors/cash he received is? Pretty high I would imagine. Why? Because he waited till the 11th hour of the last day to do his dirty deeds.

We need to change the mind set of our politicians from entitlement and privelege, to one of service and sacrifice.

Originally Posted by Times Roman

one last thought on the ramblings above.

regarding the politicians day job. It cannot be associated with the office the candidate is running for, unless he quits his day job. Reason here, is that unless we institute this rule, then corporations will put thier cronies in office to do their bidding.

This is a very complex issue, and there will always be obvious flaws with any of these armchair solutions.

I like these ideas. Makes me think. I don't agree with the career politician banning though. I don't see a reason for that. I think it would be less complicated if we just paid politicians well and completely separated corporate donations from politicians all together. It should be treated as insider trading is (it still happens but you can get caught and put in jail).

Politicians are not concerned with the people at all anymore. That's what needs to change. What if we instituted bonus' based on something like standard of living increases and stuff like that? Much like managers get stock options and it is in their best interest to keep the stock price up long term. What do you think about some motivation techniques to get our interests back in line with theirs?

**Times Roman** · 06-24-2011, 01:53 AM

Originally Posted by Twist

I like these ideas. Makes me think. I don't agree with the career politician banning though. I don't see a reason for that. I think it would be less complicated if we just paid politicians well and completely separated corporate donations from politicians all together. It should be treated as insider trading is (it still happens but you can get caught and put in jail).

Politicians are not concerned with the people at all anymore. That's what needs to change. What if we instituted bonus' based on something like standard of living increases and stuff like that? Much like managers get stock options and it is in their best interest to keep the stock price up long term. What do you think about some motivation techniques to get our interests back in line with theirs?

Crusaiders that want to come in and make changes can do so in one or two terms. Especially when it is a level playing field,and no one has any more tenure than they do. Only when You allow politicians to get too comfortable with thier careers, do they start focusing more on getting reelected than the people they are supposed to be looking out for. A significant portion of a politicians energy is spent on getting reelected, and it usually begins right after they get elected. Remove this problem, and let them focus on doing what they came to do... fix the system.

There is a phrase amongst politicians. It is called political suicide, and it refers to an issue too hot to handle without getting burned (not getting reelected). If a politician is NOT thinking about getting reelected all the time, then they would be better equipped to tackle some of these tough issues, like fixing social security, or the national deficit, or illegal immigration.