To Investigate Video of Soldiers Urinating on Corpses

[cherrydrpepper]

I hate politics

[SlimmerMe]

Once the hunter hunts the deer head is nailed to the wall.

[GirlyGymRat]

war is not pretty. if someone was trying to kill me, not sure what I might do.

[stevey_6t9]

and not a single fuk was given

[JD250]

and not a single fuk was given

I give one.

[Flagg]

The sentiment expressed in this thread, is the reason we're in the places we are at overseas.

Members of the Taliban ARE NOT TERRORISTS!

Jesus christ. The pervasive ignorance that permeates this discussion is disgusting. First off, 'terrorism' is a TACTIC OF WAR. You can no less wage a war on "flanking maneuvers" than you can on 'terrorism.' That aside, what we consider terrorists in the traditional sense, are those extremist groups, who deliberately target innocent civilians in foreign countries, for the purpose of instilling 'terror' and 'fear' into the civilian population.

The Taliban, are a political/military organization that are fighting for the control of the country of Afghanistan. They don't hate Americans because we are "free and prosperous," or any of that other bullshit. They hate us because we invaded their country, because we drop bombs on their homes, and we kill their women and children in the crossfire. We had every right to invade Afghanistan and to topple their regime, as they were giving safe haven to an enemy of the United States of America. However, after we failed to kill/capture Osama Bin Laden, we should have left that country, staying there for TEN YEARS was the mistake.

The people currently shooting at ISAF/Coalition forces are not terrorists, they are ENEMY COMBATANTS. They are not engaging in terrorism, they are using well recognized and documented GUERILLA WARFARE tactics. These tactics are used and employed when a smaller, ill equipped force faces a superior force both in numbers and in technologically advanced weaponry. We know exactly why the AAF (Anti-Afghan Forces) are attacking ISAF/Coalition forces, it is because they do not want a US controlled puppet government running their country, and why should they?

Most of us here in America lack one critical skill, we lack the ability to try and view things from the perspective of our enemies. Then, when someone with enough critical thinking skills to do so does, we call them unpatriotic, tell them to leave the country, etc, and so forth. Ask yourselves what you would do, if a foreign country like Russia or China invaded the US, because the government here was harboring terrorists who committed acts against one of those countries. Now, you may not even agree with your government doing that, but now China or Russia is dropping bombs on your homes, setting up bases in your neighborhoods, or in you counties, and friends, cousins, uncles, aunts, moms, fathers, grandfathers, etc, were getting killed by bombs, bullets, and mortars fired from those bases. It seems to me pretty obvious, that whether or not you had any feelings towards the INITIAL reason that these countries invaded, that you would probably take up arms against the occupying force and fight them, because you want them out of your country, REGARDLESS of their reasons for coming, however justified they might have been.

So please, moving forward, do some research on the conflicts you're going to comment on. The Taliban forces are not terrorists, they're enemy combatants. It may sound like a game of semantics, but definitionally these things are very important, because under the Geneva convention, enemy combatants have rights, and must be treated in a certain way. What you guys ought to be more upset about, are the politicians who sit comfortably in their chairs in Washington, in their vacation homes in the Hamptons, in their stately Annapolis homes, at their thousand dollar a plate fundraiser dinners, in their limosouines, and beat the drum for war, while they send the children of the middle class and lower class's off to die in wars that do not serve the national security interests of the United States. Many of you people blindly support these wars of aggression, where we invade and tell SOVEREIGN nations how to run their affairs. Wars that do nothing to further the national security interests of the United States, but in fact do more to codify and widen the breadth of support for terrorist organizations who want to kill Americans. All anyone has to do is pick up the Constitution, where it clearly outlines the times we are authorized to goto war. Politicians sit up on the hill, and make straw man arguments about invading a dictatorship like Iraq, so that we "fight them over there, so we dont have to fight them over here." They present Americans with LIES and false intelligence, and yet you people blindly support these liars, sending your kids to die in far away lands, while these politicians beat the war drums and send the lower socioeconomic classes off to die so that they can tell other countries and other peoples how to run their lives.

If anyone here is naive enough to think that we invade countries because they are controlled by dictators, or because they treat women horribly, or some other such nonsense, then I have beachfront property to sell you in South Dakota. There are 190 contries in the world today, and roughly 50% are still currently living under some form of a totalitarian dictatorship. Perhaps you guys think we ought to go a few trillion dollars more into debt and 'liberate' those people as well?

If only there were more people like you. The Western Media tells us that the people that live in the countries we go to war, are little more than uncivilised savages with AK 47's. We are encouraged to hate them, not look at things from their point of view.

I would like to ask the people in this thread, why can we condemn the enemy for "barbaric acts" yet we do something barbaric, it's okay because they are barbaric, so eye for an eye, etc. The hypocrisy with that way of thinking astounds me.

Afghanistan has the second worst economy in the world. What the fvck, do people still think they are capable of legit hurting a Western nation, even in the financial bind everyone is in, do they genuinely believe that from a cave, they can rain down armageddon on us?

It's okay everyone, you'll be told to hate the Chinese in 20 years time so just enjoy your diet of News propaganda, X Factor and ignore the very real problems at hand.

[JD250]

What I find insulting about these sorts of posts is that you assume that everyone else are idiots and don't know any better as if you are the only person who understands the truth and gravity of the situation. I don't think anyone here wants to be at war, but we are anyways. Maybe as an enlightened infidel you should head on over and give them a hug and let them know how understanding of their plight you are, yes?

[Flagg]

Because most people are fvcking idiots that don't know any better.

[awms]

What I find insulting about these sorts of posts is that you assume that everyone else are idiots and don't know any better as if you are the only person who understands the truth and gravity of the situation. I don't think anyone here wants to be at war, but we are anyways. Maybe as an enlightened infidel you should head on over and give them a hug and let them know how understanding of their plight you are, yes?

Dude I think you are taking what he said way out of context! theres a difference between pissing on the dead body of a man who you just killed and "giving them a hug". We get up in arms when they hang our soldiers bodies in the street or burn the bodies of western soldiers yet we tolerate it from our soldiers because of what? why because of 911???? As much as a dont agree with what the taliban stands for they have lost 100 times the people we have lost! how do you think they feel? Most of these people dont have t.v and are not educated so all they know is that some white western country is bombing their city and killing their family members....so they join the taliban who is telling them "america is evil look what they are doing to our country and your family" many of the taliban members are just like you and I...they think we are the evil ones because they dont know any better.

[awms]

My grandpa fought in the war and told me during the war he hated the Germans! he was told they were all bad and was brain washed to think this way...After the war he stayed back for a year to transport German soldiers from other countries back to Germany to be in concentration camps. He said he was expecting savage evil people but what he found was they were young men just like he was, they were scared and brain washed by their leader just like was, and he actually felt bad for them...told me he made friends with alot of them and had in depth conversations with them and they were alot like us! most of them wanted the same things for their family.

[thegodfather]

What I find insulting about these sorts of posts is that you assume that everyone else are idiots and don't know any better as if you are the only person who understands the truth and gravity of the situation. I don't think anyone here wants to be at war, but we are anyways. Maybe as an enlightened infidel you should head on over and give them a hug and let them know how understanding of their plight you are, yes?

JD250, really Flagg's point was that we should be understanding of "their plight." The point is, we need to view our actions through more than one lense. One movie I absolutely recommend that you see is "Letters From Iowa Jima." It's a movie from the perspective of the Japanese soldiers who served, fought, and died on Iowa Jima. It showed how they viewed their last stand on the island as delaying the slaughter that would come to their wives and children. Think about it, they were told such awful things about what Americans would do to do them that thousands of civilians leapt to their deaths on Okinawa. One of the most powerful scenes in the movie is when a soldier steps out of the cave to see the US Naval armada about to pound the island, it imparts the overwhelming force they were facing, it makes you feel a moment of compassion for these soldiers, many of them conscripts.

So imagine if you will. You live in Afghanistan, you have never been outside of your province, and the only text you have ever read in your life is the Quran. Maybe you are old enough to vaguely remember the Russian invasion and occupation of your country, maybe not. Regardless, chances are you have a 50/50 chance that you've ever heard of Al-Qaeda, since at the peak there were only some 5,000 Al-Qaeda fighters in a country of millions, a country severely disjointed and where you may have never met the people who live three hills away from you. Suddenly, in 2001, people you know begin to die, foreigners appear in your country, mysterious planes appear overhead round the clock, these planes drop bombs from the sky that cause the most devastating destruction you have ever seen. Death and destruction seem to touch every part of your life no matter how hard you try to avoid it. Your uncle has been in an argument with his neighbor for five or so years about a piece of land, and your neighbor in order to get back at your uncle, decides to tell coalition forces your uncle is part of the Taliban or Al-Qaeda. In the middle of the night Coalition/ISAF forces come and take your uncle away, and put him in prison at Bagram airbase, you do not hear from your uncle again for the next 10 years, but you know he's done nothing wrong.

ISAF/Coalition forces routinely patrol your village, and pressure you for information, and tell you that they're going to do to you what they did to your uncle. Then when ISAF/Coalition forces leave, Taliban members come through your village, and threaten to chop your head off if you talk to ISAF/Coalition forces, you are conflicted and don't know what to do, you're a simple farmer and sheep herder. Then one day, Taliban forces get in a firefight nearby your village with ISAF forces, you're out in the field tending your crops, and Taliban forces run near your house, ISAF forces fire a Hellfire missle, and they take out some Taliban fighters, but unfortunately they were near your house, and that same missle killed your mother, and two of your sisters. Now, you, someone who was rather indifferent to the conflict, want revenge, you want these people who have taken your uncle for years for no reason, and who have just killed your mother and two sisters as "collateral damage" to pay, and most of all you want them OUT OF YOUR COUNTRY. You don't care why they came to your country, you probably dont know a god damn thing about what happened on 9/11 in America, and you may not even know who Al-Qaeda is.

I'm sorry for the long drawn out narrative here. But this was necessary in order to get you to see things through a DIFFERENT LENSE other then the traditional one most of you are used to seeing the world through. The point of everything written above? The point of it is that the people who are fighting us, and trying to kill us, might not have any real idea of why they are doing so. To us, its so complicated, and the people we're fighting are dangerous terrorists who need to be neutralized, and we need to 'fight them over there, before we're fighting them over here.' Yet my point is, that the large majority of those people currently fighting us in Afghanistan probably could not point out America on a map, probably dont know what America has done to the Muslim world other then what they are told via word of mouth from outisders, and really only know that we are occupying their country, and we are killing members of their families and friends as collateral damage to the 'war on terror.'

It's so important for us to see things from the view point of our enemy in order to understand them, and some would argue to defeat them. The aforementioned is somewhat of what the principle of "hearts and minds" was based on.

[lovbyts]

Thegodfather,
Those are all good points and makes perfect sense and would work in a prefect world but unfortunately if we sat back and did nothing but had understanding we would be in more harms way than we are.

There are also the troops who have grown up reaping terror on their own people, killing masses, men, women, children. raping women and children, killing women because they are not virgins even if raped, killing women who are working to support their families because their husbands have been murdered etc.

I don't condone what the soldiers did. I can understand being caught up in the moment and making a wrong decision. They need punished but not to the extent that will probably happen. We also need to stop letting this sort of thing become a political issue or a position of controversy. Ill bet we dont see or hear about 90% of what they do to our troops. No this still does not make it right and our troops need special training to teach them not to do these things and especially DONT take pictures....

Part of understanding our enemy is some are not like us, some believe their way is the only way, there is no room for diversity or other beliefs, religions or races.

[JD250]

LOL....This is my point exactly.....you feel the need to explain this stuff so everyone can see it through a different lense......WE ALREADY DO....LOL ....that's what I find insulting......you guys think you're the only ones with the mental capacity to think critically or view objectively, I get it, I do, but reality is not as warm and fuzzy as objective thoughts....is it. I'm a realist, the reality is that we are at war, we train men to be killers and everyone is ok with it until we see how ugly war is and some of that ugliness gets on us and we get all uncomfortable and want to blame someone.....

I know they are people and it's no fault of theirs that they are in this situation, it's not our soldiers fault either and in reality there is no middle ground, if you're not for us then you're against us, I will always side with the American soldier whether or not the world views it as right or wrong.....if you follow your own logic through to the end you too will come to the same conclusion.

I don't like war, I especially don't like the fvckers that start war and keep it dragging on for political and financial reasons for years on end......but I can't stop them all I can do is support the young men and women that are called to fight for our country.........you can dissect it any way you like but in the end they are as innocent as the poor Afghans that you speak of. As far as the war being fought somewhere else and them not being able to find america......are you serious? Of course they won't send 200,000 taliban over here with AKs but they damn sure know where we are and how to attack us, they teach it to school children, it's in textbooks and the Koran.......nobody is totally innocent in this deal.

Anyways.....I think we have a lot in common......I just take it full circle and land on the reality that I would kill everyone of those poor afghan bastards if they were shooting at me and I would piss on them too, I just wouldn't record it.

That being said.....I would gladly bring home all our troops and send the afghans a Christmas card every year and wish them well......that would be great, but I'm a realist and I don't expect that to happen.

[jimmyinkedup]

Because most people are fvcking idiots that don't know any better.

I know this - arrogant elitists that make statements erily and ironically similar to the one you just made here are the people in Washington that have us in a war the majority of our country doesnt support and have made choices and decisions that have virtually destroyed our economy. In my experience people that say things like that are inevitabley responsible for fvcking more things up in this world than fixing them- of course their arrogance would never allow then to see or admit that.
Hmmmmmmmmm..........

[Flagg]

I know this - arrogant elitists that make statements erily and ironically similar to the one you just made here are the people in Washington that have us in a war the majority of our country doesnt support and have made choices and decisions that have virtually destroyed our economy. In my experience people that say things like that are inevitabley responsible for fvcking more things up in this world than fixing them- of course their arrogance would never allow then to see or admit that.
Hmmmmmmmmm..........

But it works both ways.

You say to the average Westerner "Muslim", and their mind flashes to a suicide bomber. You say to the average Middle Eastern citizen "Westerner" and their mind flashes to "invader". And it boils down to the people in Washington, the people at 10 Downing Street, the Heads of State of Muslim nations, and the media, telling everyone this.

Look at North Korea to see brain washing taken to absolutely scary proportions.

Perhaps most people don't want us to be at war, but politicians and the media do a good job of telling us that the muslim bogeyman will get us otherwise.

Until we stop believing that every muslim is a terrorist and they stop believing that every Westerner just want to invade everywhere and take that countries resources, this sort of thing will keep happening.

This isn't news worthy, but it's exactly the kind of thing the morons lap up when they read/watch the news.

[Sc0rch]

It's so easy to pick out the Paulbots.

"Everything is the fault of the US. If we just leave everyone alone and mind our own business all the hate and violence will magically disappear and we'll live happily ever after."

Just like most libertarian pacifists, they live in a fairytale and need psychiatric help.

[gixxerboy1]

It's so easy to pick out the Paulbots.

"Everything is the fault of the US. If we just leave everyone alone and mind our own business all the hate and violence will magically disappear and we'll live happily ever after."

Just like most libertarian pacifists, they live in a fairytale and need psychiatric help.

cause what we have been doing is working so well

[thegodfather]

It's so easy to pick out the Paulbots.

"Everything is the fault of the US. If we just leave everyone alone and mind our own business all the hate and violence will magically disappear and we'll live happily ever after."

Just like most libertarian pacifists, they live in a fairytale and need psychiatric help.

Is that 'Paulbot' remark supposed to be some witty reference to the people who support a partiular candidate for President? If so, fail. Those of us who are REAL Conservatives in the Republican party do not think EVERYTHING is the fault of the United States, nor do any of us support isolationism (i.e.- North Korea), but rather a non-interventionist foreign policy, the same foreign policy positions that got George Bush elected in 2000. Your interpretation of our stance on foreign policy is quite obviously misunderstood, while you feel that we believe EVERYTHING is the fault of the United States, its more and more clear to us that you and the rest of the Neo-cons believe that NOTHING is the fault of the United States. In truth, here on the TRUE Conservative side, we just happen to know, accept, and most importantly ADMIT that yes, the United States does in fact make mistakes from time to time. Our version of foreign policy just seeks to correct the blunders and quagmires that took place while your guys were at the wheel. I suppose arguing about it in either the affirmative or negative is really pointless though, since we're BROKE and cant afford to fight another war if we wanted to, that is of course unless you dont mind borrowing on the future of your great great grandchildren to the Chinese.

[echozulu]

So What ? Who Cares? Jus' showin' the rest of the ragheads that this is your future if you choose to **** with the Marines (NOT Soldiers).

We Do NOT want a kinder, gentler, more PC War Machine. I wouldn't have a problem with the Leathernecks slathering hadji in pig-shit. Our guys

killed 'em, Sucks to be the pissed-on Taliban. zulu, after BTDT