Anyone know of this steroid bust?

[< <Samson> >]

Here's a good recent bust for you. 23yr old gets 3yr prison sentence for steroid charges...court chooses to make an example of him. The law's already bad enough but talk about a petty bust with a huge downfall:
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/artic...8_ULNSbg248509

Oh wow, how horrid is that.

[Lunk1]

Biggest mistake you can ever make is trusting the court or jury to do the right thing.
The Supreme Court says you should never talk to a police officer without an attorney.
The only questions you need to answer is your name, address, date of birth, sometimes your social security number but NOTHING else! Instead of telling the police officer who you are, give him your drivers license or your I.D. card
After they have read you your rights you must speak up and say to the police officer "I'm going to remain silent" and then keep your mouth shut! How can you be falsely accused and charged with a crime, if you don't say anything? Never talk to a police officer, anything you say or do can and will be used against you at any time by the police.

"John Isaac Hudelson had pleaded guilty June 1 to two charges contained in an April 2 indictment issued by a federal grand jury in Tulsa."

Hate to split hairs but under Miranda the Supreme court says only that you have the RIGHT ot remain silent and that you have the RIGHT to an attrny. It does NOT tell you that you should never talk to LE....

[Lunk1]

Here's a good recent bust for you. 23yr old gets 3yr prison sentence for steroid charges...court chooses to make an example of him. The law's already bad enough but talk about a petty bust with a huge downfall:
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/artic...8_ULNSbg248509

Petty bust? Dude shipped in well over a K of raw and I am sure there was more historicly sinve he had over 800Ml of liquid. This wasn't simple possession, this was manufacture so 3 years is nothing considering he will likely serve 30-50%.

[thegodfather]

Godfather, if I ever get arrested for juice, can I hire you to defend me?

Lol sure, I suppose, although ideological arguments dont work in courts of law, criminal courts decide matters of fact, whilst appellate courts decide matters of law. The other link with the guy importing raws and having 100's of mL's of solvents, etc, is exactly as Lunk said, manufacturing a drug. If you were to get caught manufacturing any other drug like methamphetamine, you would be extremely LUCKY to get 3 years in prison, like extraordinarily lucky.

Lunk, alcohol is legal, yet not everyone is an alcoholic. Nicotine is legal, and is presumed to be one of the most addictive substances known to man, and its long term effects are far far more deleterious than MOST scheduled substances. The short and long term effects of alcoholism are extremely detrimental to society. The real point is that you will NEVER eliminate demand, and when there is demand someone will always step in to be a supplier. The problem with prohibition&crime really is the fact that in the black market there is no legitimate authority to enforce contracts. Hence, criminal organizations must enforce contracts themselves, provide their own security, and they deal with threats to their income not in the courts, but in the streets. The clearest example is the 1930's, when crimes like daylight shootings were a daily occurence in the United States, and after prohibition ended, so did the violence, because the extraordinary profit motive was removed. Removing the black market from the scheduled substances is only half of the puzzle however. The other half is that descheduling the prohibited substances makes them much CHEAPER, and those who are addicted to those substances do not have to commit crimes in order to afford their habits. In countries like Holland for instance, they view heroin addicts as pittyful, and provide it to them in government clinics. The deleterious side effects to society are FAR reduced. Crimes motivated by drug addiction go down, the amount of corrections officers and police officers needed goes down, or at the least police are able to concentrate on true crimes of Malum In Se. I disagree that there would not be a huge tax savings, but lets say that there wasn't, and that there was no net gain or loss, but things stayed the same. I would be quite happy with that, because incarceration gives no chance at rehabilitation for drug addicts, whilst actual rehabilitation creates the opportunity for at least x% to recover. We would not incarcerate cancer patients, would we?

Anyway, it's estimated that roughly 48-50% of prisoners in county,state,&Federal prisons are non-violent drug offenders. The estimated cost to house 1 prisoner for 1 year is $35,000/per year. That is a huge savings, because rehab is far cheaper. Some people actually have the audacity to argue that if we decriminalize, then some police and corrections officers, and other ancillary jobs associated with those systems will be eliminated. Well holy shit, if the difference is billions upon billions of dollars spent to cause a net neutral change in the amount, quantity, and purity of drugs coming into the country, as well as the incarceration and ruining of lives of people with an illness, making it impossible for them to get student loans or meaningful employment to support themselves, results in the loss of a few jobs in the CJ system, well then boo-fu*king-hoo...

We have 2.1 million prisoners in the United States, we incarcerate more people then the next 3 industrialized nations combined. We incarcerate more people than China who have 1 billion people, we are a country of 370 million. The drug war is meaningless not only for fiscal reasons, but also for moral and principle reasons, it is hard to imagine the founders envisioned a country where the government was involved in telling you what you could or could not put into your body, whether or not you could build a shed on your own property, and the littany of government intrusion into the lives of private citizens. We pass so many laws in Congress each year, the DOJ cannot actually tell us how many laws exist, but roughly 10,000 new pieces of legislation which criminalize one activity or another are passed EACH YEAR. Those numbers are staggering, these are things that need to be changed in our government. What a conflict of interest there is, for publicly traded companies involved in the incarceration of citizens, to also lobby in Washington DC spending millions of dollars to have votes in their interest. It's my hope that members of the steroid community abandon the idea of elevating "their" drug to a higher status, whilst denouncing people who use those 'other' drugs. So, in your overall point Lunk, I completely agree with what you were saying.

[lovbyts]

Hate to split hairs but under Miranda the Supreme court says only that you have the RIGHT ot remain silent and that you have the RIGHT to an attrny. It does NOT tell you that you should never talk to LE....

Yes you are correct, it was more making it clear this way I think. lol
Keep up the splitting hair. I need someone to keep me in line.

[lovbyts]

Petty bust? Dude shipped in well over a K of raw and I am sure there was more historically since he had over 800Ml of liquid. This wasn't simple possession, this was manufacture so 3 years is nothing considering he will likely serve 30-50%.

What liquid? BA, BB, Oils? Think about it that way it all adds up quick especially if you buy it in bulk to save money. Really it could have easily been for personal use for someone who is thinking long term and not just a couple of cycles. Makes sense to get enough at one time to last 3 or 4 years and you buy enough BA, BB and Oil to not only make the exact amount but have extra for any screw ups.

I'm sure it's just typical news where they make it sound like a lot more than it really is.

[Lunk1]

What liquid? BA, BB, Oils? Think about it that way it all adds up quick especially if you buy it in bulk to save money. Really it could have easily been for personal use for someone who is thinking long term and not just a couple of cycles. Makes sense to get enough at one time to last 3 or 4 years and you buy enough BA, BB and Oil to not only make the exact amount but have extra for any screw ups.

I'm sure it's just typical news where they make it sound like a lot more than it really is.

It said he had nearly 900ML of liquid including test... I am sure this was all finished product waiting for delivery

[lovbyts]

It said he had nearly 900ML of liquid including test... I am sure this was all finished product waiting for delivery

Why are you SURE? You know how the media is. They make things 100% worse than they are. The saying is true, believe nothing you hear and only 50% of what you see. They always spin it.

900Ml of liquid INCLUDING test could be 1, 10ml vial of test and 890ml of BA, BB, oil to cut it. lol Never really know. Dont be quick to assume.

[Lunk1]

Why are you SURE? You know how the media is. They make things 100% worse than they are. The saying is true, believe nothing you hear and only 50% of what you see. They always spin it.

900Ml of liquid INCLUDING test could be 1, 10ml vial of test and 890ml of BA, BB, oil to cut it. lol Never really know. Dont be quick to assume.

They would not charge based on vials of BA or BB. This press release is obviously written directly form the affidavit filed by LE. You can see it in the wording.

[lovbyts]

They would not charge based on vials of BA or BB. This press release is obviously written directly form the affidavit filed by LE. You can see it in the wording.

Yes they would, it's part of the process for making it so it's at that point considered illegal substance. You have to think like they do. They want to bring him/them up on as many and as big of a charge as possible knowing it will be knocked down a bit later to make it look all the worse to the jury or prosecutor. I will bet they will even count empty vials because it was intended for use.

Clariton is not illegal but when they find it at a meth lab they add it to the illegal substance list with everything else. It's just how they do things be it right or wrong.

[Lunk1]

Yes they would, it's part of the process for making it so it's at that point considered illegal substance. You have to think like they do. They want to bring him/them up on as many and as big of a charge as possible knowing it will be knocked down a bit later to make it look all the worse to the jury or prosecutor. I will bet they will even count empty vials because it was intended for use.

Clariton is not illegal but when they find it at a meth lab they add it to the illegal substance list with everything else. It's just how they do things be it right or wrong.

This is simply WRONG Byts! They dont charge ppl for possession of legal substances. At best they would sieze as evidence but they cannot and will not charge someone for having vials of grapeseed oil anymore than they would charge you for having potting soil during a marijuana grow bust. At best depending on each states law they may consider some of those items "paraphernalia" but even that is a misdemeanor at best and here anyhow only applies to something use to inject or injest drugs into the body.

As far as Clariton during a meth lab...if the plls contain phsudoephedrine then they would be considered precursors and thereby illegal if possesed with the intent to manufacture the drug.

[lovbyts]

Hhhh OK I may be wrong, you may know better than me. HOPEFULLY I will never have to find out one way or the other for sure. It's just how I understood it works and it may be different from state to state or how it is interpreted. It may also just be an old wives tale or myth and I have heard wrong.