Lance Armstrong Doping (losing title)

**Wazz** · 10-22-2012, 11:20 AM

So... Crappy news on Lance Armstrong officially losing his title from 1999 to 2005 for the Tour winner.

The news put out that the title will not be passed down because of the top 5 finishers over that 7 year period only 2 (of 35) cannot be "Linked" to Doping. IMO, that's just "linking" & doesn't mean they should rule anyone out. Now there's a "vacant" section & no winner.

Sounds to me like the playing field was pretty equal all the way around the top for years. The Anti Doping Agency is really pushing hard for examples & nothing has been said for the others involved? Why is Lance the only example or are they nailing everyone?

I think his title should have remained. Imagine hitting up past bodybuilders........ This sucks, Lance was a killer athlete doping or not, he wanted it bad & took it! Curious how involved this cover-up is?

**JohnnyVegas** · 10-22-2012, 11:34 AM

I don't know why everyone feels like going after Armstrong is some kind of conspiracy. They are going after the winningest and most popular rider of all time. He is someone they believed to be doping for decades and he is an arrogant ass that has been giving the finger to the testing agencies. This was a war between the people cheating and the people tasked with catching them.

I think the USADA is being heavy handed, but this has been escalating for a long time.

People keep saying there is no evidence and the witnesses that came forward are not to be trusted, but there are a thousand pages of evidence. People that continued to support him have dropped out saying the evidence is overwhelming.

I think this is the edited 202 page version: http://www.scribd.com/doc/109619079/Reasoned-Decision

**Shol'va** · 10-22-2012, 12:01 PM

We don't need no stinking tests to prove Lance cheated. I mean look at his shifty eyes. That says guilty right there. And how he talks and acts is another give away. Yep this dude is guilty as sin and needs to burn. Those tests mean nothing. He can pass all of them but he is still guilty because they said he is. Just as they can come in and take away all his titles and trophys'. They say he is a criminal and that he is. Who is next? Maybe Michael Phelps? Yep he is guilty as well. He even looks sneaky. Time to go after him and take away all those medals. He cheated. And on it goes. Seems we have a new Jello Sheriff in town using a different set of rules. Oh well sucks to be a winning athlete these days. I'm hoping they are wrong, but if they are right, then it's just another big black eye to olympic type sports. IMO

**JohnnyVegas** · 10-22-2012, 12:07 PM

Come on guys...we are on a steroid site and know that beating doping tests is just a fact of sports.

I don't pretend to know everything that goes on in his (or any athlete's) life, but there is a 1000 page document with evidence that is available to read (or at least the 200 page version is) so there is no need to keep saying there is no evidence. We can say the evidence is BS, but we cannot say there is no evidence. We also know a large percentage of Olympic (for example) athletes are using drugs, but I think less than ten were caught and disqualified.

**MR-FQ320** · 10-22-2012, 12:24 PM

Originally Posted by Wazz

So... Crappy news on Lance Armstrong officially losing his title from 1999 to 2005 for the Tour winner.

The news put out that the title will not be passed down because of the top 5 finishers over that 7 year period only 2 (of 35) cannot be "Linked" to Doping. IMO, that's just "linking" & doesn't mean they should rule anyone out. Now there's a "vacant" section & no winner.

Sounds to me like the playing field was pretty equal all the way around the top for years. The Anti Doping Agency is really pushing hard for examples & nothing has been said for the others involved? Why is Lance the only example or are they nailing everyone?

I think his title should have remained. Imagine hitting up past bodybuilders........ This sucks, Lance was a killer athlete doping or not, he wanted it bad & took it! Curious how involved this cover-up is?

In bold type above, if they all played by the same rules, then technically Lance did not cheat, the whole team were at it and they all agree Lance won it all them times.

In my book Lance was the champ, he should keep the titles and lets draw a line under doping, an amnesty if you like.

**Shol'va** · 10-22-2012, 06:07 PM

[QUOTE=JohnnyVegas;6225007]Come on guys...we are on a steroid site and know that beating doping tests is just a fact of sports.

so there is no need to keep saying there is no evidence.

Hey JV my post wasn't meant at a slam on you. Hope you didn't take it like that. You are right about beating the tests and none of us will probably ever know the real truth in all of this mess. If you took my post as a hit on you I'm sorry for that. I was pretty much posting as to the irony of it all how they really seem to be going after Lance big time and how easy it would be for them to do so against anyone they really wanted to go after like Michael Phelps for example. He may very well be guilty of doping, but as long as he passes those tests that the committee makes him take, that should put it to rest for them. But since it hasn't, it seems more like a witch hunt against him. IMO So see there is no evidence..bhahahahaha uhum sorry..

**Wazz** · 10-22-2012, 06:16 PM

Originally Posted by MR-FQ320

In bold type above, if they all played by the same rules, then technically Lance did not cheat, the whole team were at it and they all agree Lance won it all them times.

In my book Lance was the champ, he should keep the titles and lets draw a line under doping, an amnesty if you like.

Makes sence, but examples are examples. I truly hope the ADA doesn't continue what appears to be a witch hunt after witch hunt. I agree that if caught, the game is up. I just worry (like stated above) they will just go to the next fellow. There has to be merit to an agency getting press for big scores & shows they are doing their jobs. However I'd like to know if the other 33 confirmed "linked" cyclests are to be banned from cycling & forfeiting their ranked status?

**PillarofBalance** · 10-22-2012, 06:25 PM

This is B.S. plain and simple.

**JohnnyVegas** · 10-22-2012, 06:56 PM

Originally Posted by Shol'va

Hey JV my post wasn't meant at a slam on you. Hope you didn't take it like that. You are right about beating the tests and none of us will probably ever know the real truth in all of this mess. If you took my post as a hit on you I'm sorry for that. I was pretty much posting as to the irony of it all how they really seem to be going after Lance big time and how easy it would be for them to do so against anyone they really wanted to go after like Michael Phelps for example. He may very well be guilty of doping, but as long as he passes those tests that the committee makes him take, that should put it to rest for them. But since it hasn't, it seems more like a witch hunt against him. IMO So see there is no evidence..bhahahahaha uhum sorry..

Nope, didn't think that AT ALL. I wouldn't take offense at anything you said to me - I think I know you better than that, and even if we did disagree on something I think it would be respectful...amiright?

**kmms** · 10-22-2012, 07:51 PM

when the most dominant athlete gets taken down for doping and they can't give the title to anyone else because they were all doping too....that is nothing but a complete failure on the part of the testing agencies or the rules commissions. everything related to professional cycling is an embarrassment at this point, it's nothing but every single person from riders to rule makers and lab coat wearers trying to pass the buck.

**milky01623** · 10-23-2012, 01:55 AM

Have you guys heard that all the sponsors are demanding prize money etc be returned
Man he's in a rather large pile of pooh!!!!

**Far from massive** · 10-23-2012, 08:10 AM

Total political BS by a totally political BS agency. Clearly everyone was doping back then, the fact that they managed to ?convict? Lance with evidence that would not hold up against a black man accused of raping a white girl in Missippi in the 60s... really is a sad reflection on the US publics inability to rein in rogue agencies with bizarre agendas.

**Far from massive** · 10-23-2012, 08:11 AM

Originally Posted by milky01623

Have you guys heard that all the sponsors are demanding prize money etc be returned
Man he's in a rather large pile of pooh!!!!

I am no lawyer but unless they have contracts with a doping clause they may have trouble with this one.

**Far from massive** · 10-23-2012, 08:12 AM

Originally Posted by kmms

when the most dominant athlete gets taken down for doping and they can't give the title to anyone else because they were all doping too....that is nothing but a complete failure on the part of the testing agencies or the rules commissions. everything related to professional cycling is an embarrassment at this point, it's nothing but every single person from riders to rule makers and lab coat wearers trying to pass the buck.

So true.

**milky01623** · 10-23-2012, 08:32 AM

Originally Posted by Far from massive

I am no lawyer but unless they have contracts with a doping clause they may have trouble with this one.

Yeah I agree it's just what was said on NBC radio over here this morning

**Misery13** · 10-23-2012, 08:49 AM

Originally Posted by MR-FQ320

In bold type above, if they all played by the same rules, then technically Lance did not cheat, the whole team were at it and they all agree Lance won it all them times.

In my book Lance was the champ, he should keep the titles and lets draw a line under doping, an amnesty if you like.

X2 if everyone was "cheating" and lance smoked all of them, than he is the king.

**Misery13** · 10-23-2012, 08:50 AM

Originally Posted by PillarofBalance

This is B.S. plain and simple.

Yes sir it is and it's only going to get worse.

**Misery13** · 10-23-2012, 08:52 AM

Originally Posted by milky01623

Have you guys heard that all the sponsors are demanding prize money etc be returned
Man he's in a rather large pile of pooh!!!!

Are you ****ing serious? Those ****ers knew or at least had an idea.

**jimmyinkedup** · 10-23-2012, 08:55 AM

Apparently now all sponsors are gone. Oakley - his sole remaining sponsor - dropped him.
In the grand scheme of things...cost benefits , to mankind , not a stupid sport (which btw i love cycling) is this ultimately really gonna be worth it ? Is the world now a better place , or will it be a worse one ? I know what I think.

**Misery13** · 10-23-2012, 09:20 AM

Originally Posted by jimmyinkedup

Apparently now all sponsors are gone. Oakley - his sole remaining sponsor - dropped him.
In the grand scheme of things...cost benefits , to mankind , not a stupid sport (which btw i love cycling) is this ultimately really gonna be worth it ? Is the world now a better place , or will it be a worse one ? I know what I think.

Great point sir.

**Shol'va** · 10-23-2012, 09:23 AM

Originally Posted by JohnnyVegas

Nope, didn't think that AT ALL. I wouldn't take offense at anything you said to me - I think I know you better than that, and even if we did disagree on something I think it would be respectful...amiright?

Yeppir most definitely, well I'm sure it would, well maybe it would, but then. Well now that you mention it...lol

**Shol'va** · 10-23-2012, 09:32 AM

I saw on the news where they aren't giving those titles to anyone else as they all are doping according to the team leading the charge to take back all titles and trophies. So if this is the case how on earth are they going to be able to go ahead with any future races since EVERYONE is doping? I guess this means an end to these races, all olympics and any and all future contest involving the human body. Lets see how far they really want to push all of this now that they have it wide open. All those billions in sponsor money going down the drain. Money talks and we will see how loudly and how fast all this is covered and hushed up! On with the races doping and all. I suspect Lance will be the fall guy as they sweep the mess under the rug and go on with the races and look the other way to the doping, and let all those billions in sponsor money come rolling back in.

**baseline_9** · 10-23-2012, 09:46 AM

They are opening a can on worms here....

The anti dopping agencies need to up there game..... If u call sum1 a cheat, back it up with failed tests... This is such a shambles it's unreal... What a bloody mess up...

Drugs will always be withing high level sports.... The sponsors 'want' it... Of corse they won't admit that... As long as his tests were clean they didn't care if he was doppin or not....

When lance was winning the Tour de France do u think they were the least bit concerned with what he was taking...

**Shol'va** · 10-23-2012, 09:52 AM

Originally Posted by baseline_9

They are opening a can on worms here....

The anti dopping agencies need to up there game..... If u call sum1 a cheat, back it up with failed tests... This is such a shambles it's unreal... What a bloody mess up...

Drugs will always be withing high level sports.... The sponsors 'want' it... Of corse they won't admit that... As long as his tests were clean they didn't care if he was doppin or not....

When lance was winning the Tour de France do u think they were the least bit concerned with what he was taking...

The same goes with the Baseball games. when they are on a winning streak no one cares if the pitcher is doping. America wants and loves a winner...Period But there always has to be a loser pointing fingers when they lose, that stirs the pot. and the witch hunts begin..

**cherrydrpepper** · 10-23-2012, 11:12 AM

This whole thing is so ****ing dirty. If you catch the guy with hard evidence, I understand theres a duty to nail him to the wall. To go back years and strip him of his wins he worked his ass off for (worked his ass off being an understatement..) based on heresay thats just sour grapes. Its a bunch of vaginas getting together and hating on someone for accomplishing something in his life when they go home to a fat wife a mediocre life and drive to work in a ****ing kia.

**Wazz** · 10-23-2012, 12:12 PM

This thread has gotten interesting. I never really thought about how far they went back to nail Lance to the wall... This almost seems like a vendetta. It makes me wonder whos next (still). Guess they'll start investigating Body-Builders (Only Mr. Olympias though), Michael Phelps, & anyone else that wins until they can find a "connection" (Link) Somewhere in their past to "doping" then rip thier lives apart!

& to the comment above.... NO the world is NOT a better place because of this, Its just destroyed the sport of cycling & I have no doubt any future winner will somehow still be connected to doping. Everyone who is in that top eshelon has been cycling (usually) decades & has "been there, done that".. Link them & destroy them... BS> So yeah, I agree. Crappola all the way around

**JohnnyVegas** · 10-23-2012, 12:43 PM

Originally Posted by Wazz

& to the comment above.... NO the world is NOT a better place because of this, Its just destroyed the sport of cycling & I have no doubt any future winner will somehow still be connected to doping. Everyone who is in that top eshelon has been cycling (usually) decades & has "been there, done that".. Link them & destroy them... BS> So yeah, I agree. Crappola all the way around

I think cycling is taking this opportunity to clean up the sport. If the doping agencies cannot keep up with the athlete's doping, they can at least say, "we will keep coming up with new testing criteria and if your old samples come back positive we will strip your wins." Per your example above, if the athletes fear that they could be found guilty and destroyed at a later date, then doping might not be worth the risk.

**Shol'va** · 10-23-2012, 04:06 PM

Damned dopers anyhow. This needs to be nipped in da bud. By the way anyone know where I can get me some tren ?

**Hoggage_54** · 10-23-2012, 04:57 PM

If the guy didn't intimated and ruin peoples lives and run a charity with 75% administration costs, I would say go Lance. He made a fortune based on lies. Karma caught up with him.