the Daily Mind Fuk.....

[Times Roman]

We live in the middle of two universes....

1) The universe of the very very small, and
2) The universe of the very very large

...and both are almost empty. An electron flying around it's nucleus does so at thousands, if not millions of electron diameters away. And practically all of outer space is a void.

So how is it, if both these universes are basically empty (99.99999999% empty), how is it that between them, is us, in a world that is so cluttered with "stuff" everywhere. Our universe is very solid, and every where we look, we see matter.

So how do you explain that the universe is empty and full at the same time?

[bdos]

Its like eating a cheat meal your belly is full but also empty because theres no nutritional value to it.

[bdos]

Im very proud of that idea dont shoot me down too hard TR lol

[Times Roman]

Its like eating a cheat meal your belly is full but also empty because theres no nutritional value to it.

that's your comparative analogy?

oh boy!

[Metalject]

This reminds me of the argument of nothingness. The argument is there is no such thing as nothing because even nothing is something. If you say "there is nothing there" you have described something, therefore again nothing is something. If that's true then you could perhaps say there is no empty in the universe because even in the void the void is what's filling it and that's something, not nothing.

[bdos]

that's your comparative analogy?

oh boy!

Im a simple australian leave me alone lol

[zeedubz]

Try attempting to understand, higher dimensions.
search: "imagining the tenth dimension" ( sorry I cant post URLS yet)

[Times Roman]

a void is the absence of matter/energy

[Times Roman]

This reminds me of the argument of nothingness. The argument is there is no such thing as nothing because even nothing is something. If you say "there is nothing there" you have described something, therefore again nothing is something. If that's true then you could perhaps say there is no empty in the universe because even in the void the void is what's filling it and that's something, not nothing.

that's similar to the argument about a number labeled zero. Zero is a fairly advanced concept.

But I think the argument for a "void" being something doesn't work.

It may work at the quantum level, hence the term "vacuum energy".

[zeedubz]

But on a side note: We can all deny injecting testosterone , because were injecting basically nothing ! cheers.

[Times Roman]

Try attempting to understand, higher dimensions.
search: "imagining the tenth dimension" ( sorry I cant post URLS yet)

Oh, I have. String theory suggests many dimensions beyond the standard three.

But the problem is that it is such an abstract concept, and I have nothing in my experiential background that would allow me to connect the dots.

[zeedubz]

Abstract it is. But I think I can safely say that it is almost impossible to believe out dimension is the end. Specially those who have a mathematical background. (Linear algebra specifically) Dealing with vectors in infinite spaces.. What are these vectors , and what do they look like . We will never know.

[bdos]

Bazinga?

[Times Roman]

There is no real justification for additional dimensions.

We suspect there may be, and it helps solve problems relating to the unification issue. But that doesn't mean it's necessarily true

[bdos]

Im out! This is hurting my simple brain.

[Times Roman]

Im out! This is hurting my simple brain.

Would it be better if we spoke in Aussie?

ay mate?

[bdos]

Would it be better if we spoke in Aussie?

ay mate?

Throw another shrimp on the barbie she'll be right mate

[basketballfan22]

Well technically there is (likely) dark energy throughout the Universe and dark matter accounts for about a quarter of the Universe's matter and energy; so although there appears to be nothing throughout the Universe, there is still "stuff" there. This brings up the unification problem you already alluded to. We have two great theories that explain the small and large almost perfectly, quantum mechanics and general relativity respectively; yet they aren't compatible with one another.

[crazy mike]

that's similar to the argument about a number labeled zero. Zero is a fairly advanced concept.

But I think the argument for a "void" being something doesn't work.

It may work at the quantum level, hence the term "vacuum energy".

Zero must be a void of anything. You don't have anything until you have some decimal no mater how small and far away. 0 is nothing and .0000000000000...etc and so on....01 is the something. It can be something even before we can measure that something, beyond our defining. ...crazy mike

[basketballfan22]

As far as the dimension aspect, it reminds me of the novella Flatland: A Romance of Many Dimensions. I think it is extremely likely that we live in more than four dimensions, but it is almost impossible to think about. This is enough for many to reject the possibility. It is similar to the concept of infinity, which is pretty ****ing crazy. As a mathematician, I still am amazed about infinity.

[Zodiac82]

Zero must be a void of anything. You don't have anything until you have some decimal no mater how small and far away. 0 is nothing and .0000000000000...etc and so on....01 is the something. It can be something even before we can measure that something, beyond our defining. ...crazy mike

so 0 degrees Fahrenheit is no degrees? well that certainly feels like somethin....and if 0 is nothing then how/why do we go beyond 0 in negatives....I mean how can we go past nothin????

-Release the Kracken!!!-

[crazy mike]

so 0 degrees Fahrenheit is no degrees? well that certainly feels like somethin....and if 0 is nothing then how/why do we go beyond 0 in negatives....I mean how can we go past nothin????

-Release the Kracken!!!-

Well, hmmm, well I'm thinking in Fahrenheit, but... Now I will have to say I am challenged by your statements. hmmmm I'll get back to you on this.... ...cm

[Zodiac82]

Well, hmmm, well I'm thinking in Fahrenheit, but... Now I will have to say I am challenged by your statements. hmmmm I'll get back to you on this.... ...cm

-Release the Kracken!!!-

[basketballfan22]

so 0 degrees Fahrenheit is no degrees? well that certainly feels like somethin....and if 0 is nothing then how/why do we go beyond 0 in negatives....I mean how can we go past nothin????

-Release the Kracken!!!-

I think 0 is often misused. For example, 0 Kelvin makes sense. Also mathematically 0 can be defined as the empty set or the additive identity with respect to addition in group theory; while the negatives can be defined as the additive inverses of the natural numbers in group theory.

[Java Man]

We live in the middle of two universes....

1) The universe of the very very small, and
2) The universe of the very very large

...and both are almost empty. An electron flying around it's nucleus does so at thousands, if not millions of electron diameters away. And practically all of outer space is a void.

So how is it, if both these universes are basically empty (99.99999999% empty), how is it that between them, is us, in a world that is so cluttered with "stuff" everywhere. Our universe is very solid, and every where we look, we see matter.

So how do you explain that the universe is empty and full at the same time?

Perspective. If I imagine our solar system is an atom, the sun the nucleus, the earth an electron, then inner and outer space still look the same from my perspective as if I'm standing on a planet revolving around a star. Big and small are relative to the observer. We don't know how small particles get nor how large the universe truly is. Its all based on the limits of 'known'. Which is constantly being expanded in both directions as humans learn more about this strange existence. Your OP is something that has fascinated me as long as I can remember. Maybe it is truly infinite in both directions.

[Java Man]

As far as the dimension aspect, it reminds me of the novella Flatland: A Romance of Many Dimensions. I think it is extremely likely that we live in more than four dimensions, but it is almost impossible to think about. This is enough for many to reject the possibility. It is similar to the concept of infinity, which is pretty ****ing crazy. As a mathematician, I still am amazed about infinity.

Same here. Infinity is mindblowing. No beginning, no end. Everything and nothing. The mind wants a point of reference with which to grasp the perspective but there is none with infinity.

[crazy mike]

TR where are you, you started this F***in thread and I gotta say this is the mind Fuk of the day. hahahahahaaaaa. …crazy mike
“Craziest Old School Juicer”

[Java Man]

so 0 degrees Fahrenheit is no degrees? well that certainly feels like somethin....and if 0 is nothing then how/why do we go beyond 0 in negatives....I mean how can we go past nothin????

-Release the Kracken!!!-

Temperature is a measure of energy, how fast the particles in a chunk of matter are vibrating or moving. Theoretically, absolute zero would stop all motion, even at the quantum level. Zero energy. We have gotten to within less than 1 kelvin of absolute zero now (not positive on that) but have not reached it.

Fahrenheit is a scale within a scale. 0°F is not even close to absolute zero. Particles are still quite energetic there, so on the fahrenheit scale we can go below the zero mark. The absolute energy scale is Kelvin.

[Times Roman]

Well technically there is (likely) dark energy throughout the Universe and dark matter accounts for about a quarter of the Universe's matter and energy; so although there appears to be nothing throughout the Universe, there is still "stuff" there. This brings up the unification problem you already alluded to. We have two great theories that explain the small and large almost perfectly, quantum mechanics and general relativity respectively; yet they aren't compatible with one another.

I'm still not comfortable with dark matter/energy, since all it is based on is a plug number that is used to make sense of all the gravity we can measure, and an apparent lack of matter to support all this gravity. We've never been able to measure/observe dark matter/energy. Instead of a plug number called dark matter/energy, this "too much gravity" or "not enough matter" could simply be a flaw in our understanding of how gravity operates at very large distances.

As far as the dimension aspect, it reminds me of the novella Flatland: A Romance of Many Dimensions. I think it is extremely likely that we live in more than four dimensions, but it is almost impossible to think about. This is enough for many to reject the possibility. It is similar to the concept of infinity, which is pretty ****ing crazy. As a mathematician, I still am amazed about infinity.

In my mind, there is more than a remote chance that our universe is finite. I suspect that the concept of "infinity" is simply that, a concept, and does not correlate to anything in the physical universe.

TR where are you, you started this F***in thread and I gotta say this is the mind Fuk of the day. hahahahahaaaaa. …crazy mike
“Craziest Old School Juicer”

well, I was BBQ'ing my turkey, and having dinner with my family. My woman already thinks I spend way too much time in here!

Temperature is a measure of energy, how fast the particles in a chunk of matter are vibrating or moving. Theoretically, absolute zero would stop all motion, even at the quantum level. Zero energy. We have gotten to within less than 1 kelvin of absolute zero now (not positive on that) but have not reached it.

Fahrenheit is a scale within a scale. 0°F is not even close to absolute zero. Particles are still quite energetic there, so on the fahrenheit scale we can go below the zero mark. The absolute energy scale is Kelvin.

Many years ago, a group of scientists did something amazing. They took a million volts of electricity and ran it through a super cooler at almost absolute zero. A very small gap in the circuitry was opened and an arc of electricity would jump from one electrode to the other. But as absolute zero was closely approached, something funny happened to the arc. The electrons slowed down, and actually formed a droplet, and for the first time, electricity became viscous. That drop contained over a million volts!

[Java Man]

Nuts. I was watching a documentary about experiments with lasers through a gas or plasma, not sure which, chilled to near.absolute zero. The light beam slowed down so much as it crossed the medium that you could literally watch it move forward in real time. That viscous energy thing you mentioned in action. I hadn't heard that story about the million volts. I'm going to look that up. Sounds really cool.

[Java Man]

BTW, in case anyone is interested and didn't already know, absolute zero is somewhere around -460°f. The background radiation permeating the void in the known universe is only a few ° above that.

[basketballfan22]

I believe dark energy probably exists, but I understand your hesitation to believe such a thing before any experimental evidence. Most things in physics are merely hypothesized to account for any inconsistencies; and years later they tend to be discovered, e.g. solar eclipse's verifying general relativity, Higgs boson (not the God particle), gravitational constant, etc.

As far as infinity as a concept is concerned, that is true; but all numbers are merely concepts. What is the number 2 after all? There are many applications of infinity (or the infinitesimal) such as calculus, the energy required to reach the aforementioned absolute zero, or the energy required to accelerate a particle with non-zero mass to the speed of light. While there are a finite number of particles in the Universe or perhaps even the size of the Universe is finite, I don't believe that equates to the nonexistence of infinity. I believe when intuition fails to understand a concept, most people refuse to accept it as true. Perhaps I have been working with very abstract mathematics for too long, but I am pretty comfortable when my intuition doesn't necessarily agree with something.

[basketballfan22]

My above post sounds kind of condescending, but that was not my intention Times. I enjoy these discussions, and you clearly know your shit.

[krugerr]

BTW, in case anyone is interested and didn't already know, absolute zero is somewhere around -460°f. The background radiation permeating the void in the known universe is only a few ° above that.

−273.15 °C (−459.67 °F) - I knew it was around -270*C, I did have to look it up though! Been a while since I completed my Physics A-Level!

Temperature is a measure of energy, how fast the particles in a chunk of matter are vibrating or moving. Theoretically, absolute zero would stop all motion, even at the quantum level. Zero energy. We have gotten to within less than 1 kelvin of absolute zero now (not positive on that) but have not reached it.

Fahrenheit is a scale within a scale. 0°F is not even close to absolute zero. Particles are still quite energetic there, so on the fahrenheit scale we can go below the zero mark. The absolute energy scale is Kelvin.

The problem with absolute zero, as you correctly stated, is that it is a completely void of all energy state, making it impossible to measure, in order to measure the value, you need an energy reading, if you get a reading, then you're not at 0* Kelvin.

Since we're on mind fvcks... I always liked the Schrodingers Cat idea. Quantum states... the joy!

[krugerr]

I'm still not comfortable with dark matter/energy, since all it is based on is a plug number that is used to make sense of all the gravity we can measure, and an apparent lack of matter to support all this gravity. We've never been able to measure/observe dark matter/energy. Instead of a plug number called dark matter/energy, this "too much gravity" or "not enough matter" could simply be a flaw in our understanding of how gravity operates at very large distances.

At my last understanding of this topic, I think it was generally excepted that at very large distances, Gravity actually became repulsive, rather than attractive, which is how the universe stays balanced, assuming it is not infinite.
If the universe is infinite, then there is no center, and every planet therefore has an infinite number of planets at every possible angle from itself, and is held in equilibrium by the combined gravity of these. Whether the Universe is expanding or not is a different matter, we do know that galaxies are moving away from us due the the phase shift of there light. (Think doppler effect).

[Times Roman]

Here's something that's been stuck in my craw for awhile now. There are some in the fringes of science that seem to have found some clues that C has been slightly slowing down over time.

It they are right, then this could blow huge holes in the "Bangers" theories of our origins, which is why the huge reluctance in the mainstream community.

I've been reading so much shit for so long, that after awhile, I sometimes forget where I've read what...

[Times Roman]

here's the next mind job for the day...

Today's mind job - 6/13/2013

[JohnGalt]

Here's something that's been stuck in my craw for awhile now. There are some in the fringes of science that seem to have found some clues that C has been slightly slowing down over time.

It they are right, then this could blow huge holes in the "Bangers" theories of our origins, which is why the huge reluctance in the mainstream community.

I've been reading so much shit for so long, that after awhile, I sometimes forget where I've read what...

What I have had "stuck in my craw" for many years now is that I think C has some fundamental problems. We know that gravity stretches and warps spacetime to the point that we know that time is a man made concept. There is no consistent "time" in the universe (or possibly multiverse) because what we measure as time (I'll use the unit of one second) is different based on where you measure it in relation of objects of mass or gravity.

How can there be a finite set speed limit of anything especially C when C is a measure of time (distance over time).

I have this theory even though I personally cannot fathom the math that in the space between objects in the universe where the mass is very small relative to what's near us. Say between the milkyway and a galaxy near the edge of our site, spacetime get's warped with the lack of mass over that great distance until C is actually a slight different number it may actually be a big player in the red-shifting we see. Imagine that object is NOT moving away from us but the light to reach us covers the same distance to today that it did a thousand years ago however due to the warped time between us the light take longer leading to what we see as red-shift.

[basketballfan22]

−273.15 °C (−459.67 °F) - I knew it was around -270*C, I did have to look it up though! Been a while since I completed my Physics A-Level!



The problem with absolute zero, as you correctly stated, is that it is a completely void of all energy state, making it impossible to measure, in order to measure the value, you need an energy reading, if you get a reading, then you're not at 0* Kelvin.

Since we're on mind fvcks... I always liked the Schrodingers Cat idea. Quantum states... the joy!

Quantum superposition is insane, lol.

[basketballfan22]

Krugerr, your profile states you are a university student. May I ask what you are majoring in and what are your career plans?