Texas carries out its 500th execution since 1982

[Lunk1]

Of course, and that is where I think a lot people make mistakes. So many people like to falsely believe that they are perfect. To determine one's stance on many issues, one should not ask himself/herself "what would I do?" because the reality is he/she is not perfect. There is no question that if I had a child that was killed and/or molested, then I would want the most painful death possible for the criminal. In fact I would be hard-pressed to not take the law into my own hands and kill him/her myself, BUT I am also well aware of my own shortcomings. I can have a bit of a temper sometimes; so although I would love to be perfect, I am not. I have and will continue to do things that I know aren't the most morally good. Also there is no doubt that people are not in a good state of mind when something heinous like that happens to them. One must try to be as objective as possible, but sadly so many people act on impulse and not logic.

That's why juries aren't made up of victims.

[austinite]

What's your stance on this whole thing including the question you just posted? You don't express your opinions (unless it's about smoking ) often; so I am curious to hear your side.

I'm undecided. The truth is, every time I see it on TV, I'm for the death penalty. But then again, what if it was my brother? I probably wouldn't want him to be executed. And really, only for that reason I think I'm leaning more against the death penalty. I'm confident that the man who marches in protest of the death penalty, will not march if his loved one was on death row.

I do however, think child molesters should be executed. Or at least put on an island somewhere.

[basketballfan22]

That's why juries aren't made up of victims.

I was mainly referring to the manner in which people base their opinions and stances on complex matters. Something tells me that if the jury mainly consisted of very vocal supporters of capital punishment, then their judgement call would be different from those who are either against it or at least acknowledge the complex nature of the death penalty.

[Lunk1]

I'm undecided. The truth is, every time I see it on TV, I'm for the death penalty. But then again, what if it was my brother? I probably wouldn't want him to be executed. And really, only for that reason I think I'm leaning more against the death penalty. I'm confident that the man who marches in protest of the death penalty, will not march if his loved one was on death row.

I do however, think child molesters should be executed. Or at least put on an island somewhere.

This is that dilemma we all face A. Deciding between what we think is right for society vs what is right for us as an individual.

[austinite]

This is that dilemma we all face A. Deciding between what we think is right for society vs what is right for us as an individual.

True true.

[Sgt. Hartman]

Seems like a lot of people support the death penalty simply for prison overcrowding and monetary reasons, crazy. Lets not pretend that our prisons are full of murderers because they're not. They're full of inmates on drug charges. I don't remember the statistics but its something like over 50% are on drug charges and less then 10% for murder/manslaughter.

Makes more sense to decriminalize possession of controlled substances than to execute more people if overcrowding is the issue.

But I support the death penalty when implemented properly.

There is a piece of legislation floating around where if two people are witnesses to any murder you commit, you get executed right away. That means that if there are at least two credible eyewitnesses to a murder you committed, you don't wait on Death Row for 15 years, Jack! You go straight to the front of the line! Other states are trying to abolish the death penalty. My state's putting in the express lane. - Ron White

[austinite]

Top 3 inmate population...

United States: 2,019,234 prisoners (0.2% are murderers = 4038 murderers)
China: 1,549,000 prisoners
Russia: 846,967 prisoners

[lovbyts]

I feel if there is absolute proof such as dna evidence, video surveillance or first hand undoubtedly eye whiteness then it should be bo more than 90 days before execution.

Anyone on death row without dna evidence needs re evaluated.

[austinite]

I feel if there is absolute proof such as dna evidence, video surveillance or first hand undoubtedly eye whiteness then it should be bo more than 90 days before execution.

Anyone on death row without dna evidence needs re evaluated.

Soon you will see that video evidence will cease to be a factor.

[RaginCajun]

Top 3 inmate population...

United States: 2,019,234 prisoners (0.2% are murderers = 4038 murderers)
China: 1,549,000 prisoners
Russia: 846,967 prisoners

That is because we (USA) are pvssies now and have a law for everything!

[austinite]

That is because we (USA) are pvssies now and have a law for everything!

They're all in Houston with you, hahahahaha.

Austin, TX has ZERO prisoners. Fact.

[RaginCajun]

They're all in Houston with you, hahahahaha.

Austin, TX has ZERO prisoners. Fact.

Fact!!!!

Y'all just have a few more bums!

[Lunk1]

Hah..those look like traffic citations your moms holding

[austinite]

Fact!!!!

Y'all just have a few more bums!

True. but you're confusing hippies with bums...

[RaginCajun]

True. but you're confusing hippies with bums...

hippies/bums they all beg!

[RaginCajun]

Hah..those look like traffic citations your moms holding

hahahaha!

[CanadianBeefcake]

Here in Canada, the cost of feeding and housing just one life sentence prisoner is over $100k per year. Didn't know bologna is that expensive :-)
I live in Kingston, Ontario which is Canada's prison capital. I live just a kilometer from a maximum security prison (Kingston Pen) that will be closing shortly.

[basketballfan22]

Seems like a lot of people support the death penalty simply for prison overcrowding and monetary reasons, crazy. Lets not pretend that our prisons are full of murderers because they're not. They're full of inmates on drug charges. I don't remember the statistics but its something like over 50% are on drug charges and less then 10% for murder/manslaughter.

Makes more sense to decriminalize possession of controlled substances than to execute more people if overcrowding is the issue.

But I support the death penalty when implemented properly.

There is a piece of legislation floating around where if two people are witnesses to any murder you commit, you get executed right away. That means that if there are at least two credible eyewitnesses to a murder you committed, you don't wait on Death Row for 15 years, Jack! You go straight to the front of the line! Other states are trying to abolish the death penalty. My state's putting in the express lane. - Ron White

Yep, that is one of the points I was trying to make.

[basketballfan22]

Top 3 inmate population...

United States: 2,019,234 prisoners (0.2% are murderers = 4038 murderers)
China: 1,549,000 prisoners
Russia: 846,967 prisoners

Yeah, and what's even worse is when you compare prison populations per capita (List of countries by incarceration rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia). No surprise we are number 1. Look at how far down the list you see Western European countries. Clearly, we are doing something wrong.

[John Cluso]

In order to be put to death I think there must be an "eyewitness" to the crime.
Several folks on death row being released because of DNA showing they are not
guilty of the crime.

[John Cluso]

Yeah, and what's even worse is when you compare prison populations per capita (List of countries by incarceration rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia). No surprise we are number 1. Look at how far down the list you see Western European countries. Clearly, we are doing something wrong.

Yes we are doing something wrong; going to jail for personal drug use, and that's a shame.

[austinite]

In order to be put to death I think there must be an "eyewitness" to the crime.
Several folks on death row being released because of DNA showing they are not
guilty of the crime.

Anyone can walk up and claim to be a witness. Everyone would be executed on the spot.

[crazy mike]

hippies/bums they all beg!

Stop hippies do not beg. I was a hippy I did not beg. Those beggars are in disguise of hippies to give hippies a bad name.
I was a good hippy. Please don't bring hippies into this discussion. ...crazy mike

[austinite]

You tell em' mike!

[thegodfather]

Just WOW, with some of the things being said here....I am unequivocally against the death penalty which amounts to little more then state sanctioned murder and public blood lust. There are a myriad of reasons for this.

1.) WRONGLY CONVICTED, Over 300 people have been exonerated after serving 5,10,20 years in prison for crimes they didn't commit. The ONLY reason those people are free is because of the advent of DNA evidence. The common denominator in 75% of those cases is EYEWITNESS MISIDENTIFICATION. Then followed by Unvalidated/Improperly handled Forensics, False Confessions, Forensic Misconduct, Government misconduct (railroading defendants), & Informants with a vested interest in having someone else convicted in their stead. Invariably this means that innocent people have been, and ARE put to death.

2.) BIBLE, for those of you pointing to the bible, it is ONLY FOR GOD to decide if someone is to die for their sin. IMPERFECT MEN do not have that moral authority. We are imperfect, we get it wrong, and since no one here on Earth has a direct line to God, we cannot know whether God would chose to end that persons life for what they have done. Did Jesus kill murderers during his time on Earth? I find it hilarious of the dichotomy that exists in Texas, chomping at the bit to execute as many convicts as possible, while going into legislative panic to help save the lives of unborn fetuses.

3.) RACE, while I believe race is a socially constructed fallacy, it is none the less real to most people, and because of this, minorities are disproportionately sentenced to death. Whatever the causation behind this, most likely a diaspora of factors such as socioeconomic status, prejudices, etc, it is unacceptable that ones skin tone can determine whether they are sentenced to death or not. We are all supposed to be equal under the law, but where the death penalty is concerned, justice is NOT blind. A 2003 study from the ACLU states this:

Race and the Death Penalty | American Civil Liberties Union

The color of a defendant and victim's skin plays a crucial and unacceptable role in deciding who receives the death penalty in America. People of color have accounted for a disproportionate 43 % of total executions since 1976 and 55 % of those currently awaiting execution. A moratorium of the death penalty is necessary to address the blatant prejudice in our application of the death penalty.

The jurisdictions with the highest percentages of minorities on its death row:

U.S. Military (86%)
Colorado (80%)
U.S. Government (77%)
Louisiana (72%)
Pennsylvania (70%)

While white victims account for approximately one-half of all murder victims, 80% of all Capital cases involve white victims. Furthermore, as of October 2002, 12 people have been executed where the defendant was white and the murder victim black, compared with 178 black defendants executed for murders with white victims.

4.) MONEY/COST, the average execution of a prisoner costs the taxpayers about $10,000,000 MILLON DOLLARS! It's a proven FACT, that executing prisoners costs 10X as much as imprisoning them for their natural life. This would not be so unpalatable if we didn't imprison roughly 800,000 non-violent drug offenders each year, by ending our wasteful drug war, which causes immense pain to innocent people caught up in the crossfire(SWAT teams raiding the wrong houses with no-knock warrants), punishes non-violent drug offenders ruining their lives, and costs us billions of dollars whilst the DEA admits that since the drug war began, there are MORE drugs on the street, they are CHEAPER, and more POTENT, it seems to be going well right?

5.) PREVENTION, most statistics show that the death penalty is very seldom a deterrent to those who commit murder, as compared to natural life sentences. Many times, those who commit murder, do not care about the consequences(i.e.- sociopaths), commit it in the heat of passion, or believe they will not get caught.

6.) DEATH PENALTY FOR NON-MURDER CRIMES, some states were considering instituting the death penalty for crimes like child molestation. What these states realized though, when looking at the research, is that the death penalty for that crime would likely disincentivize the perpetrator to allow the child to live, as they would already be facing the death penalty for their offense, so killing the child at that point became a better option as it would decrease the odds of them getting caught. So the idea that we would institute the death penalty for anything other than murder is ridiculous, and in my mind can only be uttered by people who truly lack the ability to think critically about the unintended consequences of such a thing.

I will leave for profit prisons alone for the most part. The problem I see with private prisons is the VESTED INTEREST they have in keeping more draconian sentences on the book, and to imprison people as long as possible. I would think that they would be in favor of eliminating the death penalty, as you're killing streams of income for them. I think its inexcusable that the private prison companies and the Corrections Unions actually spend money lobbying legislators to keep draconian sentencing on the books. We should be striving to have less people in prison, to look towards a rehabilitation model rather than punishment. However, we don't, less than 1% of prisons in the country focus on rehabilitation, with the rest solely focused on punitive measures. It's ineffective and our recidivism rate is incredibly high. We in the United States, the land of the 'free,' imprison more people then all other industrialized nations combined, that is inexcusable as well, as is due to our drug war, and our draconian sentencing guidelines. Additionally, branding people with what amounts to the 'Mark of the Beast," once they get a criminal conviction, and are unable to obtain meaningful gainful employment, thus making crime their only alternative.


If there is the possibility that we execute even one innocent person, that alone is enough for me to advocate all death row inmates have their sentences commuted to natural life. It is LESS expensive, and it is the morally right thing to do, you cannot EXONERATE A DEAD PERSON! Just imagine the consequences for those people where DNA evidence was not a part of their case, and they may have been convicted and sentenced to death based on the testimony of one or two witnesses. This is a topic that took me a very very long time to arrive at a conclusion I felt comfortable with, and I depart from my conservative Republican brethren on this particular topic, but our decisions should be based on fact and reasoned thought, not on antiquated religious beliefs or popular opinion.

[crazy mike]

You tell em' mike!

Thought You would get something there, ha! !!! ....cm

[crazy mike]

Yes we are doing something wrong; going to jail for personal drug use, and that's a shame.

Agree on that note . ....crazy mike

[austinite]

$10,000,000 MILLON DOLLARS!

Outstanding post. Curious where you get this figure, off memory, I think the average cost is double what it would cost to house an inmate for life. Something like 750k vs 1.5 million for a death penalty case. Still validates your point, but 10 million, never heard of that.

[Lunk1]

Godfather, yes nearly 300 prisoners sentenced to death row have been exonerated BUT, how many prisoners who have been sentenced to death in the past decade are included in that 300. As I said earlier. The addition of DNA to the criminal system has changed the risk no doubt.

The death penalty was re-enacted in 76 and DNA usage in the justice system didn't start until nearly a decade later. How many of the 300 exonerated were saved by the implementation of DNA evidence procedures? Is the problem the fact that is cost $10M or is the problem we let it cost $10M

[thegodfather]

Marvin Anderson
The Innocence Project - Know the Cases: Browse Profiles:Marvin Anderson
Incident Date: 7/17/82

Jurisdiction: VA

Charge: Rape, Abduction, Sodomy, Robbery

Conviction: Rape (2 cts.), Forcible Sodomy, Abduction, Robbery

Sentence: 210 Years

Year of Conviction: 1982

Exoneration Date: 8/21/02

Sentence Served: 15 Years

Real perpetrator found? Yes

Contributing Causes: Eyewitness Misidentification, Government Misconduct, Bad Lawyering


Compensation? Yes

In December 2001, Marvin Lamont Anderson became the ninety-ninth person in the United States to be exonerated due to postconviction DNA testing. On December 14, 1982, then eighteen years old, he was convicted by a jury of robbery, forcible sodomy, abduction, and two counts of rape. The court sentenced Anderson to a total of two hundred and ten years imprisonment in the Virginia State Penitentiary. Anderson went to prison in 1983 and was released after fifteen years, facing lifetime parole. After being paroled, Anderson continued his efforts to clear his name.

The victim in this case, a young white woman, was brutally raped on July 17, 1982, by a black man who was a total stranger. He approached her on a bicycle. The assailant beat her repeatedly, threatened her with a gun, raped her, and sodomized her. After she reported the crime, a police officer singled out Marvin Anderson as a suspect because the perpetrator had told the victim that he "had a white girl," and Marvin Anderson was the only black man the officer knew who lived with a white woman. Because Anderson had no criminal record, the officer went to Anderson's employer and obtained a color employment photo identification card. The victim was shown the color identification card and a half dozen black-and-white mug shots and then asked to pick the perpetrator. The victim identified Anderson as her assailant. Within an hour of the photo spread, she was asked to identify her assailant from a lineup. Marvin Anderson was the only person in the lineup whose picture was in the original photo array shown to the victim. She identified him in the lineup as well.

At trial, the victim testified in detail regarding the assault. In addition to the rape, she testified that her assailant pried her mouth open and inserted his penis and that he forced her to consume fecal matter and urinated on her. She again identified Anderson as her assailant. The serology work completed by the Virginia Bureau of Forensic Science was uninformative.

Anderson's trial counsel offered an alibi defense which included Anderson's white girlfriend. From the very beginning of the case, people in the community became aware that the most likely suspect was another black man named John Otis Lincoln. The bicycle that had been identified as being used by the assailant was identified by the owner, who said that Lincoln had stolen it from him approximately one half hour before the rape. Although Anderson requested that his attorney call both the owner of the bicycle and Lincoln as witnesses, his counsel declined. An all white jury convicted Anderson on all counts. Although it was his first conflict with the law, he received consecutive sentences totaling two hundred and ten years.

In 1988, John Otis Lincoln came forward and admitted his involvement in the crime in an effort to clear Anderson. At a state habeas hearing in August 1988, Lincoln confessed and offered details of the crime under oath, in open court. Nevertheless, the same judge that presided over the original trial declared Lincoln a liar and refused to vacate the conviction. A coalition of civil rights groups, church leaders, and members of the state legislature petitioned then governor Wilder for clemency in 1993, which was denied.

In the years after his conviction, after DNA testing became widely available, Anderson sought to prove his innocence of the crime. He insisted that the spermatozoa and semen samples be subjected to DNA analysis. His lawyers were told by the police, prosecutor, and court that the rape kit and its contents had been destroyed. Anderson then contacted the Innocence Project and his case was accepted in 1994.

In 2001, Dr. Paul Ferrara, Director of the Virginia Division of Forensic Science, advised the Innocence Project that certain physical evidence from the case - including sperm and semen samples recovered from the victim's body - had been located in the laboratory notebook of the criminalist who performed conventional serology in 1982. Had that criminalist followed policy and returned the partially used swabs to the rape kit, all evidence in this case would have been forever lost.

The Innocence Project contacted the Commonwealth Attorney for Hanover County, who agreed that the Division of Forensic Science should conduct DNA tests on the evidence. In April 2001, however, the Director of the Virginia Department of Criminal Justice Services denied the request for testing, stating that because of "the current number of cases pending in the Division and the potential for establishing an unwelcome precedent," and that Department would permit post-conviction scientific testing "only upon a defendant's attorney showing ample cause for the court or the Governor's Office to order such testing."

In May 2001, Virginia adopted a new statute, VA Code Sec. 19.2-327.1, that permits individuals convicted of a felony to move the Circuit Court that entered the original conviction to order new scientific analysis of previously untested scientific evidence. The Innocence Project, in conjunction with the Innocence Project of the National Capital Region at American University, filed under this new statute and won in the fall of 2001, initiating the process of getting the evidence in Anderson's case tested.

Results on December 6, 2001, excluded Anderson as the perpetrator. Because the evidence was heavily degraded, the profile obtained was limited to four STR markers. When the profile was run against Virginia's convicted offender DNA database, it matched two inmates. Although the identity of these two men has not been officially revealed, it appears that one of the inmates is John Otis Lincoln.

On August 21, 2002, Virginia Gov. Mark Warner granted Anderson a full pardon. He had spent fifteen years in prison and four years on parole fighting to prove his innocence.

[thegodfather]

Outstanding post. Curious where you get this figure, off memory, I think the average cost is double what it would cost to house an inmate for life. Something like 750k vs 1.5 million for a death penalty case. Still validates your point, but 10 million, never heard of that.

Costs of the Death Penalty | Death Penalty Information Center

Financial Facts About the Death Penalty

California

Assessment of Costs by Judge Arthur Alarcon and Prof. Paula Mitchell (2011, updated 2012)

The authors concluded that the cost of the death penalty in California has totaled over $4 billion since 1978:

$1.94 billion--Pre-Trial and Trial Costs
$925 million--Automatic Appeals and State Habeas Corpus Petitions
$775 million--Federal Habeas Corpus Appeals
$1 billion--Costs of Incarceration
The authors calculated that, if the Governor commuted the sentences of those remaining on death row to life without parole, it would result in an immediate savings of $170 million per year, with a savings of $5 billion over the next 20 years.

See DPIC's Summary of 2011 California Cost Study

Report of the California Commission on the Fair Administration of Justice (2008):

“The additional cost of confining an inmate to death row, as compared to the maximum security prisons where those sentenced to life without possibility of parole ordinarily serve their sentences, is $90,000 per year per inmate. With California’s current death row population of 670, that accounts for $63.3 million annually.”

Using conservative rough projections, the Commission estimates the annual costs of the present (death penalty) system to be $137 million per year.
The cost of the present system with reforms recommended by the Commission to ensure a fair process would be $232.7 million per year.
The cost of a system in which the number of death-eligible crimes was significantly narrowed would be $130 million per year.
The cost of a system which imposes a maximum penalty of lifetime incarceration instead of the death penalty would be $11.5 million per year.
(Commission on the Fair Administration of Justice, June 30, 2008).

See more California information below.

Maryland

Study Reveals Costs in Maryland: $186 Million for Five Executions

A study released by the Urban Institute on March 6, 2008 forecast that the lifetime cost to taxpayers for the capitally-prosecuted cases in Maryland since 1978 will be $186 million. That translates to $37.2 million for each of the state’s five executions since the state reenacted the death penalty. The study estimates that the average cost to Maryland taxpayers for reaching a single death sentence is $3 million - $1.9 million more than the cost of a non-death penalty case. (This includes investigation, trial, appeals, and incarceration costs.) The study examined 162 capital cases that were prosecuted between 1978 and 1999 and found that those cases will cost $186 million more than what those cases would have cost had the death penalty not existed as a punishment. At every phase of a case, according to the study, capital murder cases cost more than non-capital murder cases.

Of the 162 capital cases, there were 106 cases in which a death sentence was sought but not handed down in Maryland. Those cases cost the state an additional $71 million compared to the cost non-death penalty cases. Those costs were incurred simply to seek the death penalty where the ultimate outcome was a life or long-term prison sentence.

(J. McMenamin, “Death penalty costs Md. more than life term,” Baltimore Sun, March 6, 2008). Read the entire study here.

[bringndaheat]

Ths is bullshiat!! Hell yes child molesters should be killed.. Kill those freaks on the spot! Do you really think those children will ever be the same?! NO!! For those who can't handle 86ing murderers and child molesters step aside and let those who wear big boy pants take care of business. Example Jerry Sandusky.., done like dinner. Waste of space! I understand the process I've been to many many trails and these people should not be on ths earth. For those who have ths blazee attitude go to a trail and see how it kills a family. It has a cascading effect. So yes whack these freaks. The ones we don't kill make a combat unit wth thm. They should be on the front line... The first in harms way.

-Heat

[human project]

Do you guys think Rapists or Child molesters should be executed?

Rapists and child molesters yes murders or any other reason no....

[human project]

Seems like a lot of people support the death penalty simply for prison overcrowding and monetary reasons, crazy. Lets not pretend that our prisons are full of murderers because they're not. They're full of inmates on drug charges. I don't remember the statistics but its something like over 50% are on drug charges and less then 10% for murder/manslaughter.

Makes more sense to decriminalize possession of controlled substances than to execute more people if overcrowding is the issue.

But I support the death penalty when implemented properly.

There is a piece of legislation floating around where if two people are witnesses to any murder you commit, you get executed right away. That means that if there are at least two credible eyewitnesses to a murder you committed, you don't wait on Death Row for 15 years, Jack! You go straight to the front of the line! Other states are trying to abolish the death penalty. My state's putting in the express lane. - Ron White

I wonder if there's any studies that show that prison has rehabilitated anyone....

[Lunk1]

Rapists and child molesters yes murders or any other reason no....

So if someone raped or molested your child then they should be executed but if hey MURDER your child they should be allowed to live. That makes perfect sense

[austinite]

I wonder if there's any studies that show that prison has rehabilitated anyone....

Over 40% of ex-cons return to prison.

[Lunk1]

Over 40% of ex-cons return to prison.

Does that mean 60% are considered rehabilitated? If that's the case it would indicate incarceration works.

[austinite]

Does that mean 60% are considered rehabilitated? If that's the case it would indicate incarceration works.

No way. Plenty leave sobered up from that cell. Rehab is a failure.

[bringndaheat]

^^^^yep

[Lunk1]

No way. Plenty leave sobered up from that cell. Rehab is a failure.

It's a dilemma no matter how you slice it. If incarcerating them doesn't work then what is the answer?