Why I dislike the young and the steroids preachers.

[ChestNBack]

I understand safety and the young and steroids that everyone always post when someone under the age of 25 comes in. My issue, someone could be 24 starting their first cycle asking for advice and people will come in screaming the young and steroids. Like magically at 25 everything will be okay. If Ronnie, Flex Wheeler, Shawn Ray, Dorian Yates along with tons of others hadnt started their cycles so young we would never had experienced those physiques. Bodybuilding wouldn't be where it is today. The 90s def saw an increase in the amount of gear used a long way from the golden era which is why the bodies changed. Even in the golden era the guys were young just not taking as much gear but still taking gear and still young. I understand people want to preach safety but what I notice a lot of times is young guys come in here with a questions and no one gives answers except for the young and steroid link. When someone does offer advice to the young people on a cycle they get blasted on.

Once again this sport would not be where its at today if all the greats waited until they were 25 or even 30s as some of you suggest. You never ask guys why they want to risk it. They might want to be the next Mr. O and starting at 30 typically wont get you there. I understand you guys want safety and I know some of these kids come out with crazy proposed cycles. At the end of the day I think suggestions should be made but these kids shouldnt be criticized. How many of the mods in here started under 25? Im sure a few. I just saw one kid get blasted on because he was under 25 but based off his profile picture he looked great and a lot better than some of these guys blasting on him. These guys from the 90s they are all retired now and only time will tell the lasting affects the gear they ran had on them. Some people we can already tell like Flex Wheeler and his issues. But some seem to be doing just fine. Some are dead, but we all make a decision in life and if some of these kids want to start young at least offer advice on how use stuff safely. At the end of the day these kids are going to do it anyway so its better to have a support group for them vs them not wanting to post here at all because people are telling them dont run gear. Arnold is old as hell as he is still ticking and having babies with housekeepers and stuff. He stared young, why cant these guys who are under 25 start young too.

I wanted to run steroids for years but I made the choice to wait without anyone telling me to wait. Point being that was my choice, other peoples choice might be to start young. I feel when people sign up under a certain age they should automatically get a couple warnings in their inbox and maybe a warning in their inbox every so often telling them the dangers on steroid use at an early age and thats it. I see so much negativity in these threads and multiple people posting that same damn link over and over with no help from anyone. Its just ridiculous. If any of you know about Bostin Loyd, his age and all the gear he runs and that his dad backs him up 100 percent because he also used gear when he competed then thats the type of thing we should discourage not only the young but noobs too. But a simple cycle, I just dont get it. Advise once, maybe twice and then call it a day.

Feel free to chime in and give me a certain death.

[king6 II]

No one will give you certain death. Regret is a hell of a thing to live with, especially when there are constant reminders of your actions, such as TRT, gyno, MBP ect. It is true you can run a cycle at a young age with no complications however, I think the tone here is not so much focused on the actual age of the people using, it is the mindset and lack of knowledge. We constantly see posts about youngsters wanting to juice, and their age is the least of their problems. They have poor diet, are too fat and don't train right. They also want to run crazy ass cycles. I understand that there are enhanced risks with cycling at younger ages, but it is the immaturity that I think is the biggest problem amongst them.

[qscgugcsq]

Youll get flamed for it. Me too.

I agree with you, especially when said that they never ask why they want to take steroids .

Most dont need steroids but everyone get blasted they assume its only another douchbag trying to have bigger biceps.

The truth is when people comes here they seek answer and if they are asking question its because they want to do it right.

By bashing on them they just leave, dont listen, and do it anyway.
But they do it without the knowledge that we can give them here...

So thinking that bashing on them will work(it does but rarely) is for their safety, is simply stupid...

[qscgugcsq]

No one will give you certain death. Regret is a hell of a thing to live with, especially when there are constant reminders of your actions, such as TRT, gyno, MBP ect. It is true you can run a cycle at a young age with no complications however, I think the tone here is not so much focused on the actual age of the people using, it is the mindset and lack of knowledge. We constantly see posts about youngsters wanting to juice, and their age is the least of their problems. They have poor diet, are too fat and don't train right. They also want to run crazy ass cycles. I understand that there are enhanced risks with cycling at younger ages, but it is the immaturity that I think is the biggest problem amongst them.

In over a year I havent seen someone not getting bash for his age even if he showed enough knowledge.

[DontTaseMeBro]

A rather bold post. I must say that I agree to a point. If they are determined to use gear, most are going to use it regardless of how much we or anyone else advises against it. Hell, I did.

On the other hand, we, as older lifters have some social responsibility. I think it is pretty obvious that the risk to those whose systems are not fully matured are greater than to those of us who are older. Also, they generally do not have the maturity to critically balance the risk and benefit of AAS use. Finally, most lack the financial resources to get all the gear, the food, the ancillaries and the PCT. When it comes down to it, they will probably buy more (and stronger) gear and skimp on ancillaries, especially PCT.

I think of it kind of like this - many people smoke weed. Even more don't smoke, but don't consider it a problem. None of them, though, would hand their 15 year old a joint and a lighter and say "smoke up".

In the end, the information they need in order to use as safely as possible is easily accessible if they just read. If someone with knowledge and experience engages them one-on-one and spoon feeds them information, haven't we essentially condoned that which we know could do them lifelong harm.

[Lunk1]

Risk vs. reward. Show me a kid under 25 with the genetics, size, dedication and knowledge to be the next Mr. O then I would be happy to help him. How many "kids that come here are THAT guy? Next to none. There for the risk far outweighs the reward.

[ChestNBack]

But you never know what someones potential is Lunk. Jordan was told he would never be a pro basketball player. He turned out to be one of the best ever. He didnt let anyone tell him no. You can look at someones stats and say yes those are crappy stats but there are plenty of guys with good stats under 25 who still get no help from the preachers

[Capebuffalo]

I'm 24 been training for a year. I'm 6 ft and 155 lbs. I'm doing a cycle to put on 25 lbs in 2 months for summer. I'm running tren and var. What dose should I use. Please know I'm doing it one way or another so just tell me how to.

Come on. 10 x a day. More now that spring is coming.

Instant gratification. No one wants to put time in.

Great post.

[Capebuffalo]

For God sake man you thought there was a tren category on a blood test.

Underage uneducated. Dangerous and stupid.

[slfmade]

Risk vs. reward. Show me a kid under 25 with the genetics, size, dedication and knowledge to be the next Mr. O then I would be happy to help him. How many "kids that come here are THAT guy? Next to none. There for the risk far outweighs the reward.

The only one I remember is Alex and he was the exception to the rule. Plus he had his dad (who also competed) and a coach to help monitor him. Very few young guys have that dedication, knowledge, and resources. Wonder what ever happened to him?

[qscgugcsq]

Risk vs. reward. Show me a kid under 25 with the genetics, size, dedication and knowledge to be the next Mr. O then I would be happy to help him. How many "kids that come here are THAT guy? Next to none. There for the risk far outweighs the reward.

Thats the issue, to your eyes it do not worth it...

But no one take the effort to ask them why they are willing to risk it...

You have the right(the moral obligation) to inform them of the danger.
But only them can determine if it worth it, not you, not me or anyone else.

[slfmade]

Thats the issue, to your eyes it do not worth it...

But no one take the effort to ask them why they are willing to risk it...

You have the right(the moral obligation) to inform them of the danger.
But only them can determine if it worth it, not you, not me or anyone else.

and that's exactly what we do. Thus....the young and steroids link.

[redz]

I don't really harp on age as much as the I'm 20 years old 6'2 130lbs tell me what to take type posts. There are greater risks and we are doing people a favor telling them. All the beginner cycle information is freely available.

[Capebuffalo]

Values principles integrity. Doing the right thing regardless of what others think. Not facilitating the possible harm of others. This is what is lacking in today's youth.

[dredlifter]

I'd say its much more about maturity then age, and I'm not just talking about maturity of the mind but also of the body. If you are 20 years, been lifting consistently for 3-5 years and built up a strong base, then knock yourself out.

It's just that so often you'll see some 20-year-old just want to jump in without ever having lifted seriously or dieted seriously. You've got to let yourself put on your natural "man weight" before you jump on the juice.

[MuscleInk]

Risk vs. reward. Show me a kid under 25 with the genetics, size, dedication and knowledge to be the next Mr. O then I would be happy to help him. How many "kids that come here are THAT guy? Next to none. There for the risk far outweighs the reward.

^^^This. When I was a kid, I was an NHL superstar.....in my mind. Most kids haven't got the slightest idea what it takes to reach top ranks. They get the idea that steroids will transform them into the next Mr. O. It's great to be competitive and want to compete. Not every kid who aspires to be a pro in the NHL, NFL, NBA.....or whatever sport you chose, will have what it takes to reach the pros. Does it mean they should have a dream? No, but as Lunk correctly points out, you really have to decide if you have the commitment and genetics to reach the too ranks. Lets be realistic....most kids (and pretty much everyone else who comes here) cycles purely for aesthetic reasons. You want to look good. You want to attract the hot chics. The problem is they want to run before they crawl. They don't understand the necessity for nutrition and training BEFORE steroids.

As a physician, I will continue to advise young men under the age of 25 to train hard and perfect their nutrition before I will endorse steroid use . You are free to disagree with that belief. I personally don't give two sh1ts if you disagree. Advise the young how you see fit - but keep your a$$ right here to fix the problems you contributed to by offering advice to young kids.

This topic rears its ugly head about once a month. Opinions will often be divided.

[songdog]

There have been a few guys under age here that posted pics and were in wat I would say.They put in a lot of time in the gym.They had good size.The only one I can think of off hand was the kid from Texas.And as for Arnold he spent a lot of money at a Endo.Beacuse he couldn't get Maria PG.So things aint as easy as you think.We think of safty 1st.Beacuse most of these kids want instant results.They don't want too put in the time.Most of the guys who posted pics didn't have a frame worth talking about.So in the end if you put in your time and had the size and wanted help and had a pic too back it up.We helped you out after we made sure you knew the risks.

[kelkel]

^^^This. When I was a kid, I was an NHL superstar.....in my mind. Most kids haven't got the slightest idea what it takes to reach top ranks. They get the idea that steroids will transform them into the next Mr. O. It's great to be competitive and want to compete. Not every kid who aspires to be a pro in the NHL, NFL, NBA.....or whatever sport you chose, will have what it takes to reach the pros. Does it mean they should have a dream? No, but as Lunk correctly points out, you really have to decide if you have the commitment and genetics to reach the too ranks. Lets be realistic....most kids (and pretty much everyone else who comes here) cycles purely for aesthetic reasons. You want to look good. You want to attract the hot chics. The problem is they want to run before they crawl. They don't understand the necessity for nutrition and training BEFORE steroids.

As a physician, I will continue to advise young men under the age of 25 to train hard and perfect their nutrition before I will endorse steroid use . You are free to disagree with that belief. I personally don't give two sh1ts if you disagree. Advise the young how you see fit - but keep your a$$ right here to fix the problems you contributed to by offering advice to young kids.

This topic rears its ugly head about once a month. Opinions will often be divided.

Agree with MI. And as those that have been here long enough know, most young guys that post those threads are in reality, years away from having a physique even close to ready to do steroids. Especially with the amounts many seem to want to start out at. Thank you bro-science.

[Oki-Des]

We dont ask young people why they want to risk it, because many of us have already been young and stupid and know that many young people do not have the mental capacity to make good decisions. This is a fact. This is why you cant drive until you are 16 and cant drink until you are 21, and normally cant get prescribed trt until you are in your 30's; unless you have screwed yourself up already or have something wrong with you.
Before you are 25 you have testosterone blasting through your system and if you eat and work for it, you can reach your goals, get a great base to build on later with steroids . Of course you dont have to wait. But I beleive this shows a level of immaturity and lack of dedication with the "I want it now" mentality that proves you will never get where you want to be anyways. Of course you dont have to listen to anyone on here and you might be the next super body builder. No one has to listen to anything they read on here. But, you should at least appreciate that someone is looking out and offering sound advice, regardless of whether anyone listens or not.

[Lunk1]

Texas Giant. The kid was like 19 and a genetic freak with the obvious dedication, maturity and knowledge. More than willing to help that guy.

[John Andrew]

Agree with MI. And as those that have been here long enough know, most young guys that post those threads are in reality, years away from having a physique even close to ready to do steroids. Especially with the amounts many seem to want to start out at. Thank you bro-science.

I agree 100% with Kelkel 90 % of the kids who want to cycle will not even be training in 12 months time. I have watched them come and go for 34 years. There are only two I know over that time who started with the potential and are still going strong and looking great! I have had pimply faced kids ask me how i could be so strong before I ever used, I told them hard work, I still tell them , work for 10 years and if you are good enough go for it.


Good luck all.

John

[Euroholic]

I like to think that Mental fortitude>over age everytime. If people are ready for the mental sides and commitment then age plays no factor. That being said more than likely it takes being older to be ready.

[RangerDanger830]

Well here is the way I see it. Just because someone decides that the high of meth is worth the ill side effects does not mean I am going to contribute to it. I will tell them to stop doing meth and if they listen fine, at least I tried with a clear conscience. No, steroids are not as bad as meth milligram for milligram, but done incorrectly they can come very close and I will not be a part of that. It is their decision to go through with it but it is also my decision to tell them I do not agree with it and move on with myself.

[austinite]

Wrong section.

You'll understand when you grow up, Kiddo.

[altered genetics]

I intend on cycling way before I'm 25. And that's my mind set, no ones changing it.

[Krb367]

I think it has to do primarily with the maturity level of being under 25.

I don't know about ya'll, but I remember when I was 21, I thought I was invincible and you couldn't tell me nothing. And I'm sure if steroids came into my radar, I wouldn't have thought once about potential hazards. ill be 28 this May, and I constantly wonder if its worth the risk to put on a few lbs of muscle

[slfmade]

I intend on cycling way before I'm 25. And that's my mind set, no ones changing it.

Case in point.

[AD]

I think it has to do primarily with the maturity level of being under 25.

I don't know about ya'll, but I remember when I was 21, I thought I was invincible and you couldn't tell me nothing. And I'm sure if steroids came into my radar, I wouldn't have thought once about potential hazards. ill be 28 this May, and I constantly wonder if its worth the risk to put on a few lbs of muscle

strongly agree

[Shol'va]

Risk vs. reward. Show me a kid under 25 with the genetics, size, dedication and knowledge to be the next Mr. O then I would be happy to help him. How many "kids that come here are THAT guy? Next to none. There for the risk far outweighs the reward.

Well there's the zyeees guy he was under 25 more like about 19 when he started. So there! No wait he's dead now victim of a blown heart valve...nevermind.. Seriously though to the OP, the ones anymore who usually get blasted as you say are those that come here telling us they are 19 or so and that everything they have done and still do is spot on. Then when asked to explain in detail a little bit and we find his idea of a solid diet is eating 3 big macs a day and so on. But if a guy comes here with a true dedicated system that makes sense then most will caution him but there will be a few who will go ahead and give him a cycle advice if he really wants it. IMO I mean if one is gonna do it regardless it would be unsafe for any of us to not at least remind him of the possible things that could go wrong but then go ahead and help him with a cycle. Because if we don't give him what he wants and give him honest safer advice then he will go elsewhere and who knows what jack ball may tell him getting him hurt or worse. So things around here aren't as hostile as they used to be when younger ones showed up asking for cycle advice. A few years back yeah you would have been ripped for being too young asking for cycle advice but not so much anymore so stick around and ask your questions and someone here will tell you what you need to know I'm sure. But there are limits to truly how young some of us will give advice for. So if you are 15 or 16 or so and coming on here wanting a cycle tailored to your 130 pound frame, you aren't gonna get cycle help from anyone here I'm sure. but we will be willing to help you get your diet and exercise set up for what you are wanting to accomplish with your body.

[Honkey_Kong]

Well there's the zyeees guy he was under 25 more like about 19 when he started. So there! No wait he's dead now victim of a blown heart valve...nevermind.. Seriously though to the OP, the ones anymore who usually get blasted as you say are those that come here telling us they are 19 or so and that everything they have done and still do is spot on. Then when asked to explain in detail a little bit and we find his idea of a solid diet is eating 3 big macs a day and so on. But if a guy comes here with a true dedicated system that makes sense then most will caution him but there will be a few who will go ahead and give him a cycle advice if he really wants it. IMO I mean if one is gonna do it regardless it would be unsafe for any of us to not at least remind him of the possible things that could go wrong but then go ahead and help him with a cycle. Because if we don't give him what he wants and give him honest safer advice then he will go elsewhere and who knows what jack ball may tell him getting him hurt or worse. So things around here aren't as hostile as they used to be when younger ones showed up asking for cycle advice. A few years back yeah you would have been ripped for being too young asking for cycle advice but not so much anymore so stick around and ask your questions and someone here will tell you what you need to know I'm sure. But there are limits to truly how young some of us will give advice for. So if you are 15 or 16 or so and coming on here wanting a cycle tailored to your 130 pound frame, you aren't gonna get cycle help from anyone here I'm sure. but we will be willing to help you get your diet and exercise set up for what you are wanting to accomplish with your body.

I don't even see the point in advising a kid whose diet is spot on and he's got the genetics and training in there to be a top notch athlete in how to do a cycle. There is already plenty of advice out there on how to construct a good cycle including the ancillaries and PCT in the thousands of threads people start on here already. If the guy was that bent on doing it, he could take the time to look up some of those threads. There is really no point in compromising our point that guys still developing shouldn't be running steroids .

[Cuz]

Everyone knows the risks involved if they have researched any. The choice is yours. More than likely there will be consequences.

[Gaspari1255]

Vishus is another one that comes to mind. He's probably 24-25 now. He posted pictures up when he was 21, and was bigger and leaner than 99% of the people on this forum

[Oki-Des]

No one cares if someone under 25 does steroids . But it is simply bad advice to give. Please dont mistake advice as anything other than it is. I also would not suggest you go to a bar, get drunk, and drive home. But hey, you might be able to get away with it. You might not. But telling you it is a bad idea is just advice. Take it or leave it, but dont get mad if it doesnt fit how you want it to. Many older people on here, like myself, did steroids before they were 25. Like many others, for me too, it was a mistake.

[Cody95]

[austinite]

what a load of crap for a thread.