Self-employed . . . . Is it worth it?

[Fluidic Kimbo]

About a month ago I attended a funeral of a man in my town who died of a brain hemorrhage in his 50's.

He ran three businesses and employed 30 - 40 staff.

A few people remarked at the funeral that it was the stress of managing three businesses and 35 staff that caused his cardiovascular system to deteriorate to the point of a brain hemorrhage.

Not all people who are self-employed have employees -- I mean you could be a wealthy carpenter making musical harps all by yourself (those bad boys are 3 grand a pop).

I think most people who've gotten rich from their own business though have a few employees. Those employees could be parents depending on you for their livelihood, to clothe and feed their children. I imagine it could weigh on a employer's mind trying to keep a business productive for the sake of their employees' livelihoods.

Of course the up side to running your own business and having employees is that you're loaded -- shit loads of money. (Assuming business is good, of course).

But really is it worth it? Are you better off getting a degree in science or engineering or whatever and then just getting a 9 to 5? Keep the stress levels low and enjoy life til your dead?

To be frank about it all, owning two big houses and four cars and having a 6 or 7 figure bank balance is no use to you if your brain explodes.

[redz]

Working till the day you die is no way to live. I do ok with my job but I need to move into something g much bigger and for myself. Worrying about money will kill you the fastest.

[Fluidic Kimbo]

Working till the day you die is no way to live. I do ok with my job but I need to move into something g much bigger and for myself. Worrying about money will kill you the fastest.

Yeah but doesn't being self-employed and having employees just amplify all those worries, and give you other stuff to ruminate on too?

I mean if you work a 9 to 5, your mind is really just on yourself and your own family. But let's say you employ 8 people who each work 9 to 5, and then electricity prices double so now you have to agonise over firing one of them, but you don't want to coz it's a close-knitt team and they're all good at welding.

Or let's say you have an employee who has 3 kids, and lately he's started coming into work looking like shit and smelling like alcohol. I mean I can't imagine it's nice having to lay these people off when they're already falling apart

And then there's the really awkward situations . . . like one of your employees gets pregnant and goes on maternity leave.

I do think there's a lot to be said for getting a degree in engineering and working a 9 to 5.

[Painjunky]

You can be successfully self employed and not have employees.

[Cylon357]

You can be successfully self employed and not have employees.

You can, but the smart money is on thinking of employees as "asset multipliers". A single person can only do so much work. But, a group of people multiply the work throughput and start to allow for economies of scale. All of a sudden, you have 10x the amount of income with only 7x the amount of expense. That's what I would drive to at least, should I start a business again.

That said, yes, you can in fact make pretty good money as a "solo artist". I did that too as a small business owner.

[< <Samson> >]

Kinda where I’m at rn - do I keep chasing the money & expand? - or, let the $ go & completely change fields - “if” I change fields, the money is gone - but, I’ll have job stability considering I’m looking into the medical field. With no major responsibilities, good benefits & it’s kinda what I have been looking into ever since my whole head shit happened.

But, repossession is taking off - the economy is ready to plummet. With how much funds I have, I can expand into a solid 1/2 dozen employee operation making some serious cash within a year or two. . . The work is harsh af, hours will be all over the place & I will responsible for a ton of shit.


A real fork in the road

[Painjunky]

Your right. It’s a give and take though. With some businesses the stress of managing employees just isn’t worth the extra dough. My workman’s comp for employees is ridiculous. The risk of injury and damage to property high and the employee turnover is high. Add to the fact that good employees are really hard to come by right now , it’s just better to stay owner operator and charge a premium, work my own schedule etc… However like you said , there is a sealing. You can only streamline so much.

[Fluidic Kimbo]

I think I really meant to give this thread the title, "Being an employer . . . Is it worth it?". Really I was giving consideration to the grief, hassle and stress you put up with every day trying to manage a business with employees.

Let's say I had as much money as Jeff Bezos or Bill Gates. I would have so much money that I would be able to create jobs just for the sake of providing people with a livelihood and a nice place to work. I could find two very impoverished towns, one in Kenya, and another in Cambodia. I could say "I'm going to build a big massive factory in both of these towns, and employ 15,000 people in each factory". If I paid US$16,500.00 per year to 30 thousand people, then it would set me back half a million dollars per year. That's pocket change for folks like Zuckerberg and Musk.

I could get the whole operation started by having a load of scrap metal delivered to the Kenyan factory, and get my Kenyan workers there on a production line to melt down the metal, cut it, and weld it into the shape of metal frames. Then I could transport the metal frames from the Kenyan factory to my other factory in Cambodia, and get my Cambodians to melt it down again and make different shape frames out of it. I could keep this operation going for years and years, exchanging scrap metal between Kenya and Cambodia, spending half a million dollars of my own money per year on providing a livelihood and a nice place to work for 30,000 people.

It wouldn't surprise me if there were a handful of employers in the world who have an operation such as this going on somewhere -- a project that employs people to work but incurs a loss rather than a profit -- with the intention being just to create jobs.

But 99.999% of employers don't have that kind of money. Running a business is about turning over a profit while remaining within your moral boundaries -- although for some people it's just about making a profit. I think 99% of employers take on a new employee so that they can increase the level of work that gets done, and in turn increase the overall profit of the business. I'm sure employers do take pride in employing a dozen people, providing them with a nice place to work and a decent wage to live on, but really the employer took on those employees to build up his business -- i.e. to increase his $$$ per month.

Ten years ago I took up a new job just after I finished school (we call it 'college' or 'uni' in Europe). I took up work in a new IT firm, and I worked for a very exploitative employer. This employer was able to get all the other employees to work unpaid overtime whenever he wanted them to. I remember the first day I met my co-worker named Michael, he was in an electronics lab down on the ground floor, and it was in the month of July, the sun was shining outside and I was wearing shorts to try cope with the Summer heat. I walked into the lab at about noon, and all of the blinds were shut. Michael was sitting at a desk over an electronic circuit, wearing a hoody with his hood up. I said to him:

Em.... the sun's shining outside and you have the blinds closed all the way

His reponse was:

Sometimes I'm in here til after midnight so I don't like to know what time it is

As I said, my employer's efforts to exploit my colleagues were successful. These guys were actually working for below minimum wage, as they were only getting paid for 40 hours per week but really they were working 50 - 100 % more hours than that. I'm pretty sure if you do the maths on that, it brings their hourly pay below the minimum. But anyway my employer's attempts to manipulate and exploit me didn't work out well. I remember one day in particular he had prepared a speech for me. He came in to the office and asked if he could speak to me in the next room. Then he began speaking:

Thomas, I was living in the South of France, and my children were learning French. The economy back home in Ireland was on its knees. I wanted to be a patriot, I wanted to create jobs, so I left France and took my family back to Ireland.

This guy really wanted me to believe that he had employed 4 people for the sake of employing 4 people (i.e. just to provide a livelihood to 4 people). Not any mention of how he would get rich off the electronic product we were developing. No word of profiteering and capitalism. No word of the massive investment he'd gotten from rich guys who wanted to quadruple their money.

I've never been an employer so I can't say for sure what it would be like, or how I'd treat my employees. If I was to start out as a sole trader and then develop a very lucrative business to the point of needing help with the work, I'd have to think long and hard about becoming an employer. I'm used to doing volunteer work in homeless hostels and psychiatric units, where I see the person in front of me as someone whom I'm willing to use my own time and money to help, and so then if I were to become an employer then I'd need a shift in mindset where I see the person as basically a tool. A money-making tool.

Over the past 10 years or so I've spent a fair bit of time around temples and meditation centres, where people work together just out of kindness and good will, to be part of something that's making a positive change in the world, to be around nice people. In particular I've been to meditation centres where the head honcho isn't allowed to accept any gifts.

If I were to ever become an employer I'd need to have a big change in mindset, and I'd have to be careful not to run away with a lust for riches, because exploitative employers are human sewerage.

[Cylon357]

I think I really meant to give this thread the title, "Being an employer . . . Is it worth it?". Really I was giving consideration to the grief, hassle and stress you put up with every day trying to manage a business with employees.

Let's say I had as much money as Jeff Bezos or Bill Gates. I would have so much money that I would be able to create jobs just for the sake of providing people with a livelihood and a nice place to work. I could find two very impoverished towns, one in Kenya, and another in Cambodia. I could say "I'm going to build a big massive factory in both of these towns, and employ 15,000 people in each factory". If I paid US$16,500.00 per year to 30 thousand people, then it would set me back half a million dollars per year. That's pocket change for folks like Zuckerberg and Musk.

You need to review your basic math.... That would be about half a BILLION dollars, not pocket change to anyone.

[Fluidic Kimbo]

You need to review your basic math.... That would be about half a BILLION dollars, not pocket change to anyone.

I don't know how I make such bad blunders like this. Just earlier today in my day job I was using trigonometry to calculate the deflection angle of a laser manipulated by mechanical galvoes, and then an hour later I can't multiply two numbers.

Musk could probably write off half a B a year. He probably even calls it a B.

[Fluidic Kimbo]

Being your own boss - what can be better?

Knowing you finish work at 4 on Friday and don't have to think again until 9 on Monday

[Obs]

About a month ago I attended a funeral of a man in my town who died of a brain hemorrhage in his 50's.

He ran three businesses and employed 30 - 40 staff.

A few people remarked at the funeral that it was the stress of managing three businesses and 35 staff that caused his cardiovascular system to deteriorate to the point of a brain hemorrhage.

Not all people who are self-employed have employees -- I mean you could be a wealthy carpenter making musical harps all by yourself (those bad boys are 3 grand a pop).

I think most people who've gotten rich from their own business though have a few employees. Those employees could be parents depending on you for their livelihood, to clothe and feed their children. I imagine it could weigh on a employer's mind trying to keep a business productive for the sake of their employees' livelihoods.

Of course the up side to running your own business and having employees is that you're loaded -- shit loads of money. (Assuming business is good, of course).

But really is it worth it? Are you better off getting a degree in science or engineering or whatever and then just getting a 9 to 5? Keep the stress levels low and enjoy life til your dead?

To be frank about it all, owning two big houses and four cars and having a 6 or 7 figure bank balance is no use to you if your brain explodes.

It's just like anything in life you have to have balance.
If you don't like working at least a little bit 7 days a week and being extremely organized and in a routine with everything then it's pretty easy to drive yourself nuts owning your own business.
I wish I had gone into the trades as a machinist as a welder or something like that as an employee that traveled.

It's too late now my entire life is tied into what I do and most days I can't stand it sometimes I have a good day though. I'm too damn stubborn to go to work for someone else.

I have a certain amount of freedom because I write the contracts and I choose the ones that I want and the ones that I don't. I choose when to go to work and I choose when to quit.

If you're in a topsy-turvy relationship and you try to start a business you will fall on your face.

If you give your business everything you have your entire personal life will fall apart and if you give your personal life too much your business will fall apart.

The incentive for small business ownership has declined greatly. It's a lot more paperwork and a lot more headache. I used to love going and doing bids on contracts I got a thrill out of it. Now most of the time somebody calls me for a bid and I say to myself "FUUUUUCK".

A TYPE B PERSONALITY HAS NO BUSINESS OWNING A BUSINESS.

In today's market unless you have something nobody's heard of the competition is fierce and you have to be very cunning smart and hard-working to compete or Excel.

It can be done.
If it's done improperly you can bet your butt it will take years off your life.

I am a business owner I am not a successful business owner.
The past three or four years have been so damn hard on my body it's indescribable.

I was disorganized and poor relationships coupled with burnout and recreational substances trying to numb the pain really didn't do me any favors.

there's always tomorrow though and I intend on coming back stronger than ever. If I don't then I guess I'll die trying and doing my damnedest.

[Obs]

Knowing you finish work at 4 on Friday and don't have to think again until 9 on Monday

My guys have always bitched when they had to work a 10-hour day. I would work a 10-hour day with them working harder than they did times two. Then I would go home and maintenance things and run bids for new contracts.
Way too many 16 to 20 hour days.

Another big problem of mine was I had too big of a damn heart and paid my guys way too much just to be pissed on with laziness.

[Obs]

I really like a lot of your posts on here kimbo.
You're pretty damn smart and you got an out of the box way of thinking.

[Fluidic Kimbo]

I really like a lot of your posts on here kimbo.
You're pretty damn smart and you got an out of the box way of thinking.

Just trying to distract myself from the inevitabilities of the human condition. Not sure whether I mean to say 'distract from' or 'accept' in that last sentence. They're probably similar concepts if you turn them inside out.

I think one of the best ways to come back stronger than ever is yoga -- but I'm not talking about a 40-minute class at your local community centre (although that isn't a bad place to start). I'm talking about flying to the north of Thailand to do a 7-day yoga retreat with a couple in their 80's who've been teaching for the past 30 years. I'm considering doing that this Winter. But for now, I'm acting in a play this month, and next month I have my first bout in boxing so I've upped my runs from 3.5 miles to 7 miles. Aiming for 28 miles per week.

[Obs]

Just trying to distract myself from the inevitabilities of the human condition. Not sure whether I mean to say 'distract from' or 'accept' in that last sentence. They're probably similar concepts if you turn them inside out.

I think one of the best ways to come back stronger than ever is yoga -- but I'm not talking about a 40-minute class at your local community centre (although that isn't a bad place to start). I'm talking about flying to the north of Thailand to do a 7-day yoga retreat with a couple in their 80's who've been teaching for the past 30 years. I'm considering doing that this Winter. But for now, I'm acting in a play this month, and next month I have my first bout in boxing so I've upped my runs from 3.5 miles to 7 miles. Aiming for 28 miles per week.

Good luck in your bout.
I'm beat up enough from work if I got in a ring my ass would be knocked out in the corner before the starting bell.