Getting colder by the minute; I ain't talking about the temp.

[Fluidic Kimbo]

I suggest you are open minded when you get your teeth knocked in also with your enlightening ideas of torturing animals and raping women

You used your imagination in those last two words there.

[lovbyts]

OK WTF happened to my reply? I was the first reply to the OP and now its gone. The main thing I said was the reason for not releasing information to the public was because they already had a suspect and didnt want him to flea.

[XnavyHMCS]

OK WTF happened to my reply? I was the first reply to the OP and now its gone. The main think I said was the reason for not releasing information to the public was because they already had a suspect and didnt want him to flea.

Yeah...??? WTF...???

I remember seeing that comment too...

From what little we know; police had zeroed in on this guy for some amount of time.

[lovbyts]

Yeah...??? WTF...???

I remember seeing that comment too...

From what little we know; police had zeroed in on this guy for some amount of time.

Good, Im glad it wasn't just my imagination. lol Really I appreciate you speaking up.

[wango]

Wonder if this kid had a fascination with Mark Fuhrman & the OJ stabbings, being he’s into forensics so much?

[XnavyHMCS]

Wonder if this kid had a fascination with Mark Fuhrman & the OJ stabbings, being he’s into forensics so much?

I saw retired ex-FBI / forensics investigator on Fox talking about the apprehended suspects criminology studies, and he said that these university courses and the information contained within them, is not enough for him (or the perpetrator) to evade detection by LEO.

We won't have to wait long to find out some of the details in what they have as evidence, what lead to this guy's arrest; his current lawyer has stated publicly that the suspect does not plan to fight extradition, so we should have greater knowledge in the coming days...

If he is the killer, then getting his car under the microscope is going to be a crucial piece of evidence. More than one "specialist" has said that the car, if in fact he did drive it away from the crime scene, is going to a/the nail in his coffin; even Nancy Grace (GOD, I hate just the sight of that bitch and her fucking voice, it just grates on me... She reminds me of at least two of my ex-wives attorneys which I had the displeasure to face-off against in divorce court.) stated that there is no way, short of muretic acid, to thoroughly clean the inside of an automobile of the blood that would be left by his clothes and shoes, the steering wheel, gear shift, etc...

Gonna be interesting.

[wango]

I saw retired ex-FBI / forensics investigator on Fox talking about the apprehended suspects criminology studies, and he said that these university courses and the information contained within them, is not enough for him (or the perpetrator) to evade detection by LEO.

We won't have to wait long to find out some of the details in what they have as evidence, what lead to this guy's arrest; his current lawyer has stated publicly that the suspect does not plan to fight extradition, so we should have greater knowledge in the coming days...

If he is the killer, then getting his car under the microscope is going to be a crucial piece of evidence. More than one "specialist" has said that the car, if in fact he did drive it away from the crime scene, is going to a/the nail in his coffin; even Nancy Grace (GOD, I hate just the sight of that bitch and her fucking voice, it just grates on me... She reminds me of at least two of my ex-wives attorneys which I had the displeasure to face-off against in divorce court.) stated that there is no way, short of muretic acid, to thoroughly clean the inside of an automobile of the blood that would be left by his clothes and shoes, the steering wheel, gear shift, etc...

Gonna be interesting.

Just finishing up Furhman’s OJ book. My goodness did the LAPD f-up that case - it was open & shut and they screwed the pooch, and OJ’s Broncho was one of the big blunders from the start.

As you stated, they had best be meticulous with that car and hopefully are. However, I’m most interested in the stab wounds location & possible order. Still having a hard time figuring out how this guy managed it by himself and so silently.

May the victims Rest In Peace and their family and friends find peace as well one day ( but how can they really?).

2023 starting off in a morose way.

[XnavyHMCS]

In my obviously and extremely unprofessional opinion concerning the "Trial of the Century and a Stars Fall From Grace" (the OJ trial), I will readily agree that the police investigators bungled the chain of evidence, by holding onto OJ's blood sample for the length of time that they did, and perhaps other missteps in the investigation. Their ineptitude in the investigation has most likely created hours of course study material for investigators nationwide. Like a "How NOT to maintain a chain of evidence." lectures, for LEOs / Homicide Investigators.

But aside from their, in what ex-post facto analysis appear to be blatant mistakes; you gotta hand it to the jury in the trial. They delivered a verdict which was comeuppance for the historical injustices meted out to the black community over the years... I don't support that, but that's how I see it. The fucking jury flocked around OJ like was a god damn civil rights worker. This guy, once he made it big, he dumped not only his black wife, but the whole of black society... White friends, white wife, white country club, white neighborhood... Son of a bitch, he even had a white Bronco!!! You see where I'm going with this???

Even the white investigators were in awe of their "star" suspect. Treating him like royalty during his initial interrogation not to mention the white Bronco chase and arrest.

A total miscarriage of justice. What a shame for the victims and their families. And poor fucking Ron Goldman; poor kid was present that night, purely by happenstance.

[wango]

Yup a complete circus.

My feeling from living here is that the white’s out here didn’t mind the innocent verdict as badly because of OJ’s rather unique personality
(He was damn funny in the “Naked Gun” series). That damned Bronco “chase” coverage interfered with the coverage of an amazing NBA game though and that really irked me at the time. Ultimately the verdict saved us a riot that would have made riots after the Rodney King trial look like a party.

In Moscow, IF the authorities are in fact looking for others and are being deliberately misleading to trip up the other possible suspects, or, they must be damn certain of the forensic evidence on this kid, to the point where it’s an open & shut case.

Odd coincidence, Fuhrman retired to Idaho and lives about 100 miles away from Moscow. I think after OJ, he does crime investigation shows or podcasts, I’ll have to check. Damn, he knew his shit with OJ, his research into the stab wounds and possible knife used is amazing.

[XnavyHMCS]

Yup a complete circus.

My feeling from living here is that the white’s out here didn’t mind the innocent verdict as badly because of OJ’s rather unique personality
(He was damn funny in the “Naked Gun” series). That damned Bronco “chase” coverage interfered with the coverage of an amazing NBA game though and that really irked me at the time. Ultimately the verdict saved us a riot that would have made riots after the Rodney King trial look like a party.

In Moscow, IF the authorities are in fact looking for others and are being deliberately misleading to trip up the other possible suspects, or, they must be damn certain of the forensic evidence on this kid, to the point where it’s an open & shut case.

Odd coincidence, Fuhrman retired to Idaho and lives about 100 miles away from Moscow. I think after OJ, he does crime investigation shows or podcasts, I’ll have to check. Damn, he knew his shit with OJ, his research into the stab wounds and possible knife used is amazing.

Pass me the title of his book; I was not aware that he had leapt into the field writing. For himself and his family, I hope he "made his own killing" financially, after the way that the Dream Team drug the guys name through the mud, nearly painting him as some form of the Grand Wizard of LA. In my view, he wasn't any more racist than any of the white officers who were working there at that time.

I agree with you on the Moscow investigation; either LE is sure (But mistakes have been made in the past.) or they are playing a cat and mouse game with any other suspect/s they may be developing leads / focusing on. Sadly, we need to keep from a rush to judgement and remember that in the USA it says "innocent until proven guilty", and not the other way around.

[XnavyHMCS]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/idaho-mur...210404535.html

The above article is not informative by any stretch, but there is a clip of the suspect and his father being stopped by Indiana State police.

If the guy is guilty, he must have been shitting his pants when he was stopped.

[wango]

Pass me the title of his book; I was not aware that he had leapt into the field writing. For himself and his family, I hope he "made his own killing" financially, after the way that the Dream Team drug the guys name through the mud, nearly painting him as some form of the Grand Wizard of LA. In my view, he wasn't any more racist than any of the white officers who were working there at that time.

I agree with you on the Moscow investigation; either LE is sure (But mistakes have been made in the past.) or they are playing a cat and mouse game with any other suspect/s they may be developing leads / focusing on. Sadly, we need to keep from a rush to judgement and remember that in the USA it says "innocent until proven guilty", and not the other way around.

That dream team of lawyers did one heck of a job for OJ. Think about it we wouldn’t have the Kardashians now if it weren’t for that trial.

By Fuhrman’s account the LAPD did a crappy job. He wasn’t in charge and didn’t make the decisions, nor did he agree with many. And OJ did agree to an initial interrogation without his lawyers (and Fuhrman has the transcripts) and the 2 detectives were star-struck and gave OJ pertinent information that he then used to build his defense from. All while giving the detectives absolutely nothing.

Agreed, innocent till proven guilty. The continued facts are going to be intriguing.

[wango]

Entirely possible . . .

[XnavyHMCS]

https://www.foxnews.com/us/idaho-mur...o-images-hands

Here is the full length interaction, from the traffic stop by Indiana State police.

Apparently, the FBI has now released that they were physically tracking he and his father during their cross country trek back home to Pennsylvania, and the Feds requested the stop so that they could casually examine the suspects hands for lacerations suffered during the stabbings, it would appear. Interesting...

[Cuz]

https://www.foxnews.com/us/idaho-mur...o-images-hands

Here is the full length interaction, from the traffic stop by Indiana State police.

Apparently, the FBI has now released that they were physically tracking he and his father during their cross country trek back home to Pennsylvania, and the Feds requested the stop so that they could casually examine the suspects hands for lacerations suffered during the stabbings, it would appear. Interesting...

Yeah I watched that yesterday had his so called “father” in the car need to charge him as an accomplice as well.

Bring back the firing squads and hangings dear government…well they cant even decide who is gonna be house speaker for fucks sake.

[Cuz]

Entirely possible . . .

I can tell you for sure, just this guys image is gonna get him beat to death in prison .. a very frail cold blooded killer much like dahmer. He wont last long

[wango]

Bring back the firing squads and hangings dear government….

Gary pushed for his own execution by firing squad. Why watch yourself rot slowly in a cell & have to endure the mundane life in prison for what will seem like eternity. I personally don’t see capital punishment as a deterrent as much as I see it being cost effective to the taxpayers (and have absolutely no problem with it).

[Cuz]

Gary pushed for his own execution by firing squad. Why watch yourself rot slowly in a cell & have to endure the mundane life in prison for what will seem like eternity. I personally don’t see capital punishment as a deterrent as much as I see it being cost effective to the taxpayers (and have absolutely no problem with it).

Plenty of reason but the corrupt government would just steal the tax money somewhere else

Also, prisons now are much different than the older times. Many have alot of amenities and are very comfortable some even have basketball courts so idk man pretty sure I could argue instant death would be a deterrent

[wango]

Plenty of reason but the corrupt government would just steal the tax money somewhere else

Also, prisons now are much different than the older times. Many have alot of amenities and are very comfortable some even have basketball courts so idk man pretty sure I could argue instant death would be a deterrent

No doubt about corruption in government and wasteful spending.

My preference is “hard time” in prison, fitting for the crime. However, I think history will show that absolutely nothing is a deterrent to crime, not even the most horrific & painful torture that can be thought of (and people have been more than creative).

I was just reading about a Mexican jail that is practically run by the inmates; at least we don’t have that degree of corruption. That said, our Angeles region facilities are always under investigation for abuse against prisoners.

[wango]

Interesting. . . So a roommate was awakened and as I thought I heard before, there was a dog in the house (not the best guard dog unfortunately).

And previously, it sounded to me that they all were killed in their beds, which seemed odd to me. In this article it seems that wasn’t the case.


https://www.yahoo.com/news/roommate-...170503558.html

[Cuz]

Interesting. . . So a roommate was awakened and as I thought I heard before, there was a dog in the house (not the best guard dog unfortunately).

And previously, it sounded to me that they all were killed in their beds, which seemed odd to me. In this article it seems that wasn’t the case.


https://www.yahoo.com/news/roommate-...170503558.html

Yep, a witness came forth they are calling “DM” for unknown reasons saying that voices were heard and a male voice saying “i am here to help you”

Evil is among us

[wango]

Yep, a witness came forth they are calling “DM” for unknown reasons saying that voices were heard and a male voice saying “i am here to help you”

Evil is among us

Well for me personally, these new facts do clarify a lot of questions I initially had; making it sound far more feasible that he acted alone. As these articles continue to elaborate more & more, it appears that the article calling him a moron regarding his covering up his crime is sounding spot on.

Continued sympathy for family & friends of the deceased.

[XnavyHMCS]

Interesting. . . So a roommate was awakened and as I thought I heard before, there was a dog in the house (not the best guard dog unfortunately).

And previously, it sounded to me that they all were killed in their beds, which seemed odd to me. In this article it seems that wasn’t the case.


https://www.yahoo.com/news/roommate-...170503558.html

Yeah...

Roommate hears a crying girlfriend and see's a masked stranger dressed in black, who walks past her at 4am...

And here, when I lived with roommates I thought leaving a sink full of dirty dishes constituted a bad roommate. WTF

[wango]

Yeah...

Roommate hears a crying girlfriend and see's a masked stranger dressed in black, who walks past her at 4am...

And here, when I lived with roommates I thought leaving a sink full of dirty dishes constituted a bad roommate. WTF

100 percent agreed. What if they still had a chance for survival if the roommate called 911 and EMTs came out?

[XnavyHMCS]

100 percent agreed. What if they still had a chance for survival if the roommate called 911 and EMTs came out?

Typical "I don't want to get involved" mentality on display here.

Also, we must remember that this was a university residence, party house, so strangers leaving a housemates room at 4am, albeit not wearing a mask, would not, in and of itself, constitute a reason to be alarmed and check on your friends. But in conjunction with hearing a struggle and crying... This borders on the unconscionable.

Have to see what else will be revealed when LE presents their affidavit for his arrest.

Apparently the dumbass left the sheath (always attach that fucker to your belt) behind in the room with one of the victims.

[wango]

Typical "I don't want to get involved" mentality on display here.

Also, we must remember that this was a university residence, party house, so strangers leaving a housemates room at 4am, albeit not wearing a mask, would not, in and of itself, constitute a reason to be alarmed and check on your friends. But in conjunction with hearing a struggle and crying... This borders on the unconscionable.

Have to see what else will be revealed when LE presents their affidavit for his arrest.

Apparently the dumbass left the sheath (always attach that fucker to your belt) behind in the room with one of the victims.

Most excellent points all around Xnavy!

This kid sounds more & more like a buffoon, but believe it or not, OJ was sloppier.

[XnavyHMCS]

Yeah; fucking OJ "Don't squeeze the Juice" Simpson... Living proof of just what fame, fortune and celebrity status can buy; you can get away with murder. I loved it when the dumbass jury read the verdict; Kardashian was incredulous, and fucking OJ couldn't believe it himself.

Get the butter and the jelly out, because if what the police are coming out with as evidence is true; this guy is toast.

Fucking Tool... He appears to have slept through some of his classes at university.

[XnavyHMCS]

I agree with both Wango and Cuz on their posts concerning the death penalty. Although I believe that it has been proven that capital punishment is not and has never been a deterrent to crime, murder in this case, it saves the tax payers money and fulfills the role of vengeance.

Gary Gilmore... Firing Squad, that's how I would want to go. The shocking aspect on lethal injection is that the prison system had been purchasing their drugs from European suppliers (You mean we don't have our own pharmaceutical giants stateside?), and the Euros finally caught on to just what we were using the products for and they prohibited further sale and export of these drugs to the US. Hence, the recent spate of nearly botched (If the motherfucker is dead, I got news for; implementation of the sentence was a success.) execution resulting in a prolonged agony for the perpetrator. Well, cry me a river. These heartless, cold blooded killers had to suffer a little bit before leaping into the lake of fire; it just breaks my heart...

If the guy in Idaho is guilty, throw a rope over the nearest cottonwood tree and hang him high. Or better yet; give him over to the fathers, so they can "get Medievil on his ass".

[wango]

Once again Xnavy, every point is spot on. And to Cuz, I agree with everything that you said as well.

How horrible a parent must feel, simply indescribable nor any way to truly empathize with it (unless you you have experienced such a loss).

Absolutely go medieval on his ass, but regrettably, even knowing that punishment could be coming; very likely still not a deterrent.

Hey, way off topic, but I’m honestly on cloud nine just now regarding that NFL player that was injured and almost (or maybe did for a moment) died. He is coming along nicely. Thought I’d add a bit of “good feelings” to this grim but interesting thread.

[XnavyHMCS]

Once again Xnavy, every point is spot on. And to Cuz, I agree with everything that you said as well.

How horrible a parent must feel, simply indescribable nor any way to truly empathize with it (unless you you have experienced such a loss).

Absolutely go medieval on his ass, but regrettably, even knowing that punishment could be coming; very likely still not a deterrent.

Hey, way off topic, but I’m honestly on cloud nine just now regarding that NFL player that was injured and almost (or maybe did for a moment) died. He is coming along nicely. Thought I’d add a bit of “good feelings” to this grim but interesting thread.

I'm with Wango here; think of the parents. A tragic aspect of these high profile crimes is that the most important people involved, the victims, get lost in all the hype and fascination with the perp. I am just as guilty of that, as anyone else. Along with the parents, who I have read in past accounts, never find closure for their loss.

On the aside of the National Felons League player; his progress and rapid recovery likely has a lot to do with being in such good shape, overall. Godspeed to return to the gridiron.

[wango]

This passage from Fuhrman’s book made me laugh this morning.

“The Buddy murders were not as complicated as they were depicted. Any experienced detective could tell that the suspect would be hard pressed to leave any more evidence than the murderer did. The only way the evidence could be more incriminating to O.J. Simpson would be if he had left a videotape of himself committing the murders. ”

I was thinking to myself just yesterday that I would not be surprised at all if this knucklehead didn’t have selfies on his phone inside of the house or with the victims themselves. This kid is an idiot and should be killed for that alone.

The roommate is starting to catch heat for the delay in calling 911. I’m thinking it’s a little warranted myself.

[XnavyHMCS]

This passage from Fuhrman’s book made me laugh this morning.

“The Buddy murders were not as complicated as they were depicted. Any experienced detective could tell that the suspect would be hard pressed to leave any more evidence than the murderer did. The only way the evidence could be more incriminating to O.J. Simpson would be if he had left a videotape of himself committing the murders. ”

I was thinking to myself just yesterday that I would not be surprised at all if this knucklehead didn’t have selfies on his phone inside of the house or with the victims themselves. This kid is an idiot and should be killed for that alone.

The roommate is starting to catch heat for the delay in calling 911. I’m thinking it’s a little warranted myself.

Props for Fuhrman on his analysis; too bad that the caucasians on the jury didn't vote for the truth, instead of folding under the combined pressures of sequestration and black / minority influence...

The Idaho guy... He may just have snapped a few pictures or selfies. These young people take pictures of everything nowadays. He is turning out not to be as smart as a lot of people believed earlier; leave the fucking knife sheath behind on the bed right next to one of the victims. I was wondering when the police said that they believed it was a K-bar; the sheath says K-bar USMC stamped right into the leather; kinda dispels any doubt about the type of knife used in the slaughter.

I stand by my earlier assessment of the roommate's actions; in a house occupied by young, sexually active (I am assuming) university students, how infrequent is it that a member of the opposite sex is seen in the early morning hours, doing their own rendition of "the walk of shame"... So, aside from the commotion which she heard, that wouldn't be unusual. In one article it was stated that one of the victims was found dead just outside of the door to the bedroom. So how could the other residents not have seen the body, if they went onto all of the floors? It will be interesting to listen to the 911 call, if and when it is released.

[wango]

Props for Fuhrman on his analysis; too bad that the caucasians on the jury didn't vote for the truth, instead of folding under the combined pressures of sequestration and black / minority influence...

The Idaho guy... He may just have snapped a few pictures or selfies. These young people take pictures of everything nowadays. He is turning out not to be as smart as a lot of people believed earlier; leave the fucking knife sheath behind on the bed right next to one of the victims. I was wondering when the police said that they believed it was a K-bar; the sheath says K-bar USMC stamped right into the leather; kinda dispels any doubt about the type of knife used in the slaughter.

I stand by my earlier assessment of the roommate's actions; in a house occupied by young, sexually active (I am assuming) university students, how infrequent is it that a member of the opposite sex is seen in the early morning hours, doing their own rendition of "the walk of shame"... So, aside from the commotion which she heard, that wouldn't be unusual. In one article it was stated that one of the victims was found dead just outside of the door to the bedroom. So how could the other residents not have seen the body, if they went onto all of the floors? It will be interesting to listen to the 911 call, if and when it is released.

Agreed about the party house type assessment, BUT, the impression I’m getting from different articles is that she was frightened and “traumatized” by seeing him. The people coming out to defend her lack of calling are stating other examples of others in similar situations leading to their inactions. I’m not being over judgmental of her, but what if an immediate 911 call could have saved lives? That would be really tragic.

This kid is an ass-hat and when he gets to hell, the other killers are going to give him some serious grief.

Honestly, if it were not so disrespectful, they could make a very dark comedy of a movie in the years to come.

[XnavyHMCS]

Agreed about the party house type assessment, BUT, the impression I’m getting from different articles is that she was frightened and “traumatized” by seeing him. The people coming out to defend her lack of calling are stating other examples of others in similar situations leading to their inactions. I’m not being over judgmental of her, but what if an immediate 911 call could have saved lives? That would be really tragic.

This kid is an ass-hat and when he gets to hell, the other killers are going to give him some serious grief.

Honestly, if it were not so disrespectful, they could make a very dark comedy of a movie in the years to come.

Excellent take on the situation.

She didn't sound as shocked, as she did surprised, but in a surprised and not terrified reaction. Maybe, as she tells the story, definitely as she reflects on what really happened in the preceding minute/s, coupled with the noises and voices (she knows now that she was hearing his voice soothing her friend; either as or before he was killing her) in the darkness, her recollections become colored by her increased knowledge.

I don't believe that he will last long in Gen Pop. He will need to be housed in Seg, and even then, he's a dead man, and justly so.

[Fluidic Kimbo]

Up until a few decades ago, people were talking about the 'fight or flight response'.

Nowadays though, we talk about the 'fight, flight or freeze response'.

That girl may have been terrified and just frozen. Psychologically, she may have been compelled to do nothing and say nothing when the fear struck her.

I was in a McDonalds one time in Ireland when two or three guys ran in with guns to rob the place. Years later I can look back at how different people reacted to having a gun pointed at them. Some people will scream, some people will turn and run, some people will charge and fight, some people will initiate a conscious stare down, and some people will freeze. Humans are weird.

Don't expect rational behaviour from a person who's terrified.

[s1nc1ty]

Up until a few decades ago, people were talking about the 'fight or flight response'.

Nowadays though, we talk about the 'fight, flight or freeze response'.

That girl may have been terrified and just frozen. Psychologically, she may have been compelled to do nothing and say nothing when the fear struck her.

I was in a McDonalds one time in Ireland when two or three guys ran in with guns to rob the place. Years later I can look back at how different people reacted to having a gun pointed at them. Some people will scream, some people will turn and run, some people will charge and fight, some people will initiate a conscious stare down, and some people will freeze. Humans are weird.

Don't expect rational behaviour from a person who's terrified.

What happened...did you disarm them or did they get away with the burgers?

[Fluidic Kimbo]

What happened...did you disarm them or did they get away with the burgers?

They had a sawn-off double-barrel shotgun pointed at me, and they told me to get down on the ground and crawl up to the front of the shop. I just did what they said and waited for it to be over.
But the retard laying on the ground beside me took out his cellphone, I don't know if he was trying to call 911 or what, but it was fucking retarded of him, he nearly got us both shot. The gunman came over and grabbed his phone and then went back to where he was sitting with the gun pointed at us.

Years later I read in a psychology book about something called 'weapon focus'. When a person is in fear of their life, they typically can later describe in very fine detail the weapon. When the police arrived, the gunmen were long gone, and I was able to go on my laptop on Google Images and show the police the exact model of gun that was pointed at me. It was almost like I had photographic memory of that gun, it was odd that I could readily identify the exact gun from a load of pictures on my laptop screen.

They also say that the barrel of a gun gets wider the longer you stare at it, but I didn't experience that as I was on the ground just looking at the floor pretty much (and also looking at the dickhead beside me messing with his phone -- waiting for the bang).

[XnavyHMCS]

They had a sawn-off double-barrel shotgun pointed at me, and they told me to get down on the ground and crawl up to the front of the shop. I just did what they said and waited for it to be over.
But the retard laying on the ground beside me took out his cellphone, I don't know if he was trying to call 911 or what, but it was fucking retarded of him, he nearly got us both shot. The gunman came over and grabbed his phone and then went back to where he was sitting with the gun pointed at us.

Years later I read in a psychology book about something called 'weapon focus'. When a person is in fear of their life, they typically can later describe in very fine detail the weapon. When the police arrived, the gunmen were long gone, and I was able to go on my laptop on Google Images and show the police the exact model of gun that was pointed at me. It was almost like I had photographic memory of that gun, it was odd that I could readily identify the exact gun from a load of pictures on my laptop screen.

They also say that the barrel of a gun gets wider the longer you stare at it, but I didn't experience that as I was on the ground just looking at the floor pretty much (and also looking at the dickhead beside me messing with his phone -- waiting for the bang).

Twice as a civilian I stared down the barrel of a small and then medium caliber pistol. First was on the stairs at the entryway to a titty-bar. I didn't see what happened, because I was in the front of our group. Inside, one of our guys threw a drink on one of the dancers; instant ejection ensued. As we were leaving, somebody started to get into it with security. Hearing the commotion I bounded up the stairs, only to come face to face with what now I deem was a .380 or a .25 "Saturday Night Special" variety, but the motherfucker looked like a hand-cannon... I politely told the wielder that he didn't want to shoot me, today is my birthday (which it was). We made haste. Second time was on Taurus Street, in Mira Mesa (suburb of San Diego); at the home of a cuckold husband who happened to surprise us while he was supposed to be on the base for 24hr duty... I was standing in the walk-in closet, and when he opened that door and pointed, what I believe now was a 9mm; I just exhaled heavily, looked down to my left, and thought that I was about to buy it standing here in a pair of dress slacks and socks (fortunately I had my truck keys in my front pocket). I wound up effectuating an egress through the screen on the open bedroom window, jumping from the first floor, I broke a toe just missing the garbage cans on my way to the deck. Made it back to my place in Hillcrest, and 45 minutes later, the crazy ex-stripper married woman calls me and says that she is down the street from my apartment, and would I like for her to buy something for us to drink... Can you gents say, "Gimme 3 Steps"?

Unlike Kimbo, I fall vastly short of the sheer audacity and brass balls to disarm my aggressors...

[wango]

Up until a few decades ago, people were talking about the 'fight or flight response'.

Nowadays though, we talk about the 'fight, flight or freeze response'.

That girl may have been terrified and just frozen. Psychologically, she may have been compelled to do nothing and say nothing when the fear struck her.

Don't expect rational behaviour from a person who's terrified.

Agreed FK, and I believe there’s already been psychologists/therapists coming to her defense.

I’m not condemning her at all, but sincerely wish for her mental well-being in the future, that it can be established that all of the victims were dead prior to his leaving. We’ll definitely be reading a lot more about her involvement or lack of.

Interesting stories by yourself & Xnavy. Very happy that you’re both alive to tell it.

[Fluidic Kimbo]

Having a gun pointed at you is a very confronting experience, and very directly activates parts of the brain involved in danger detection and avoidance, but you can get a more subtle, but just as extreme, fear response in less-confronting situations.

About 10-15 years ago I was in Asia along the Mekong river and I needed to use my Thai phone but I could only get reception close to the river. So I parked my bike at the road and walked out on the dirt ground toward the Mekong river. By this time in the evening it was getting dark, and anyway I made my phone call, and as I walked back towards my bike I saw that there were two men sitting on my bike and that they had an AK-47. They weren't even looking at me, they were just sitting normally on my bike looking forward as though they were waiting for a traffic light to go green. I looked around me in every direction and there wasn't anywhere I could run or hide. It was dark now too. It was quite an eerie, unnerving, unsettling experience walking back to those two men sitting on my bike. It wasn't quite as "in your face" as having a gun pointed at you but I could definitely feel a very sinister vibe. I think the Mexican cartels try to make use of this less-confronting kind of fear and intimidation in order to instill a more subtle fear in people in order to control them -- but of course sometimes they go a little further and dismember you while you're still conscious.

I've probably done myself some serious damage from watching videos online ... I can't go into a hardware shop and look at a power tool without envisioning it being used on a person.