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Thread: Muscle Wars

  1. #1
    wango's Avatar
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    Muscle Wars

    Looking through the bookcase for my next read & this jumped out at me. I haven’t read it since it came out in 85, but it was well remembered. Plus, I thought the title was ironic considering current forum relations. Plus, as shit hit the fan with the mention of Arnie, there’s plenty about him in there.

    Written by Rick Wayne (and the guy is a great writer, this book is a page-turner). It gives a little pre IFBB history in the 40’s-50’s, then the story starts to move in 65 with Pearl winning Mr. O. Edit: my error, Scott.

    From recollection there’s a lot on Sergio, but I recall there being excellent first hand coverage of the controversial Mr. O in 80 & 81.

    Helluva excellent read if you like your BB. This ain’t about training/diet, but a BB history book with incredible stories and cool old pics.

    Been digging this sport since 71ish, can’t believe I dumped all of my old M&F mags from the 70’s, what was I thinking? This a nice flashback with lots of old names I recall from those days.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Muscle Wars-e487d783-1536-4191-bbda-f3c248ab380c.jpeg  
    Last edited by wango; 04-09-2023 at 12:12 PM. Reason: Error
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  2. #2
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    Man, I am far from a book reader - I just don’t have the concentration

    My wife reads books for fun daily as I’m doing 5 things at once

    Make a movie or put a series on Netflix. Lol

    Stupid electronic generation













    And, no - I’m not retarded or have memory loss(yet, thankfully) - just remember, on the other side the mindset is quite similar
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  3. #3
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    Samson, Iím similar to yourself. When Iím working, I canít read for relaxation. I can only read if Iím on vacation or now that Iím fortunate enough to have retired.

    If I were working, itís television or forget about it, I donít even go to theaters anymore.

    Hope youíre well and didnít take my bs post too seriously. Iím a son of a b****, but not like that, it wasnít personal.
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    XnavyHMCS is online now Senior Member
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    I have always enjoyed reading; books, newspapers, magazines and in contemporary times the internet. I remember how much I looked forward to going to the library during elementary school; I could have stayed in there for hours. I recall stumbling upon an artistic rendition of the Battle of Belleau Wood, which depicted a Marine member of the American Expeditionary Force bayoneting a prone Boche soldier in the heat of the fight. It's a classic image, which I am certain others have seen.

    I will have to check Amazon and try to find the aforementioned title. It sounds like a good read.

    Thanks Wango
    Last edited by XnavyHMCS; 04-09-2023 at 11:26 AM.
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by XnavyHMCS View Post
    I have always enjoyed reading; books, newspapers, magazines and in contemporary times the internet. I remember how much I looked forward to going to the library during elementary school; I could have stayed in there for hours. I recall stumbling upon an artistic rendition of the Battle of Belleu Wood, which depicted a Marine member of the American Expeditionary Force bayoneting a prone Boche soldier in the heat of the fight. It's a classic image, which I am certain others have seen.

    I will have to check Amazon and try to find the aforementioned title. It sounds like a good read.

    Thanks Wango
    Actually as a kid, I donít recall reading & astound my wife with how many books Iíve never encountered. I read for leisure very little into my 30ís and then it gradually picked up. I personally have ADD and even now can only manage a few pages before I take a break, refocus & then continue.

    I thought of you when I recently bought a book called Cats in the Navy. I was amazed how much a part they played for several decades. The stories and pics are insane, that is of course if you like cats.

    Iíll try to find that image you mentioned as Iím not familiar. Appreciated.

  6. #6
    XnavyHMCS is online now Senior Member
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    https://www.google.pl/url?sa=i&url=h...AAAAAdAAAAABAI

    This is it...!!!

    And if that fucking image doesn't get your dick hard, your heart racing and your imagination churning; then the viewer must be some liberal leftist (oh no... they're gonna lock another thread...), who is grappling with pronouns...

    This was the image which stirred my imagination. I would stare at that and wonder what these two combatants, locked in struggle for life and death, were thinking in that instant. I haven't seen this for something like thirty years; it still moves me.
    Last edited by XnavyHMCS; 04-09-2023 at 11:21 AM.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by XnavyHMCS View Post
    https://www.google.pl/url?sa=i&url=h...AAAAAdAAAAABAI

    This is it...!!!

    And if that fucking image doesn't get your dick hard, your heart racing and your imagination churning; then the viewer must be some liberal leftist (oh no... they're gonna lock another thread...), who is grappling with pronouns...

    This was the image which stirred my imagination. I would stare at that and wonder what these two combatants, locked in struggle for life and death, were thinking in that instant. I haven't seen this for something like thirty years; it still moves me.
    It brings to mind the hand to hand battle with the knife towards the end of ďSaving Private RyanĒ. That was a strong scene.
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  8. #8
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    Weird coincidence to align with the O’Hearn thread. I’m just finished reading about Scott’s Mr. O in 66 and announced his retirement. He was asked about his supplements which he openly answered; then was asked if he had ever taken steroids ? His answer: “Sure. Doesn’t everyone? They’ve become a regular part of bodybuilding in the United States”.

    Another competitor stormed the stage, took the mike away and said “That’s a damn lie . . . I don’t know of a single American champion who has ever taken drugs as part of his training. You can’t beat good steaks and quality supplements.

    Scott replied: “Aw c’mon Chet. You know better than that”.

    The dude challenged Scott to a fight later that evening at a party.

    Wow, guess this natty claim issue has quite a long history!
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  9. #9
    XnavyHMCS is online now Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by wango View Post
    Weird coincidence to align with the O’Hearn thread. I’m just finished reading about Scott’s Mr. O in 66 and announced his retirement. He was asked about his supplements which he openly answered; then was asked if he had ever taken steroids ? His answer: “Sure. Doesn’t everyone? They’ve become a regular part of bodybuilding in the United States”.

    Another competitor stormed the stage, took the mike away and said “That’s a damn lie . . . I don’t know of a single American champion who has ever taken drugs as part of his training. You can’t beat good steaks and quality supplements.

    Scott replied: “Aw c’mon Chet. You know better than that”.

    The dude challenged Scott to a fight later that evening at a party.

    Wow, guess this natty claim issue has quite a long history!
    ABSOLUTELY...!!!

    I put forth the proposition that denial, obfuscation is obviously a part of human nature...

    Fucking great job Wango...!!! Thank you for digging deep into the archives of our shared passion and passing this on to our brothers!
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  10. #10
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    I forgot how fín good this book is. When he met Arnold for a second time (this time with Franco), Arnold was asking Rick about steroids , which he hadnít yet. Arnold gave him a months supply of Dianobol in case he was curious.

  11. #11
    XnavyHMCS is online now Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by wango View Post
    I forgot how f’n good this book is. When he met Arnold for a second time (this time with Franco), Arnold was asking Rick about steroids, which he hadn’t yet. Arnold gave him a months supply of Dianobol in case he was curious.
    Anyone on the forum following this kennykoooo on Instagram? I am sure that some of you guys got him; hell, I would bet that somebody on here probably knows him... He's got a pretty good gig going on, asking what appears to be random guys and gals if they are natty or not. Not surprising to me, most of the people he questions admit, on camera, to being geared up. He's also caroused around what appears to be the AVN Awards Expo (or something to that effect) and done Q&A with some mangy looking porn "stars". Of course here he's not asking these supposed starlets whether they are natty or not...

    Yeah the steroid question: I harken back to the late 70's or perhaps it was 1980, I went with my bodybuilding older brother (the guy who first instilled a penchant for pumping iron in me) to the Southlake Mall, in northwest Indiana, a stones throw away from the infamous Gary, Indiana, which held the acclaimed and coveted fame of the Murder Capital of America one year in the early 80's; the mall has degenerated into an urban cesspool with at least one incidence of culprits (I'll leave it to your imagination as to who the perpetrators were; "Pat, I'd like to solve the puzzle...") opening fire within the constricted confines of the shopping center... Anyways, I go there in tow of my idol, my big brother, to see Mike Mentzer. After he posed and changed into sweats, he took questions from the audience. Now, this all took place within the cramped space of Brown's Sporting Goods (Probably doesn't even exist anymore, but I can still remember the display of the hunting rifles on the wall and the unfortunate fact that the sales guy never wanted to let this little prepubescent lad who was bereft of the means to purchase, handle one of those rifles.). During this time, one guy asks Mike Mentzer if he has ever taken steroids . In fact, the questioner mispronounced the drug, he said "styroids", and Mike tells him that he has never heard of styroids, but if he is talking about steroids, he says, "Asking a bodybuilder if he takes steroids is like asking a guy if he beats off. Everybody's doing it, but nobody wants to tell you about it". That holds true pretty much into today's times. Him saying that has stayed with me since I heard it, and at the tender age of 12 years old, I didn't even know what they were talking about...
    Last edited by XnavyHMCS; 04-09-2023 at 02:39 PM. Reason: Editing and improving my prolific errors; I beg your forgiveness as I am a work in progress, gents.
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by < <Samson> > View Post
    Man, I am far from a book reader - I just don’t have the concentration

    My wife reads books for fun daily as I’m doing 5 things at once

    Make a movie or put a series on Netflix. Lol

    Stupid electronic generation













    And, no - I’m not retarded or have memory loss(yet, thankfully) - just remember, on the other side the mindset is quite similar
    Welcome to the world of ADD or ADHD. Ive NEVER been able to read books without having to read the same page at least 3 or 4x before remembering any of it. I have no idea how I have gotten as far as I have in the technical world (MCSE, CCNA, Satellite communications, RF Engineering).

    Books are over rated. lol

    Speaking of memory loss, Ive done this more than I like to admit and also in other groups/forums.
    A while back I was looking on here for a recipe of how to make/mix something and about a specific product. I found a pretty well written explanation of what I was looking for, how it worked and how to prepare things. When I got done reading it I checked to see who wrote it. I wrote it like 3 or 4 years ago.
    Last edited by lovbyts; 04-10-2023 at 01:22 AM.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by wango View Post
    Hope you’re well and didn’t take my bs post too seriously. I’m a son of a b****, but not like that, it wasn’t personal.

    It’s hard to get to me - I’ve been pretty calloused up over the years

    The funny part is that the US & Ru are starting to have too many things in common


    Oh well, I’m far enough from the front lines of hell & I def enjoy that part


    Everything needs to be made for television - come on, I’m on TikTok now. That shit gave me headaches at 1st.
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by < <Samson> > View Post
    Itís hard to get to me - Iíve been pretty calloused up over the years

    The funny part is that the US & Ru are starting to have too many things in common


    Oh well, Iím far enough from the front lines of hell & I def enjoy that part


    Everything needs to be made for television - come on, Iím on TikTok now. That shit gave me headaches at 1st.
    Glad to hear.

    The only way I can unwind is with tv.

    I think on my archaic FB, thereís this thing called Reels (I think). The vids can get addictive & a ton of time just disappears.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by XnavyHMCS View Post
    Anyone on the forum following this kennykoooo on Instagram? I am sure that some of you guys got him; hell, I would bet that somebody on here probably knows him... He's got a pretty good gig going on, asking what appears to be random guys and gals if they are natty or not. Not surprising to me, most of the people he questions admit, on camera, to being geared up. He's also caroused around what appears to be the AVN Awards Expo (or something to that effect) and done Q&A with some mangy looking porn "stars". Of course here he's not asking these supposed starlets whether they are natty or not...

    Yeah the steroid question: I harken back to the late 70's or perhaps it was 1980, I went with my bodybuilding older brother (the guy who first instilled a penchant for pumping iron in me) to the Southlake Mall, in northwest Indiana, a stones throw away from the infamous Gary, Indiana, which held the acclaimed and coveted fame of the Murder Capital of America one year in the early 80's; the mall has degenerated into an urban cesspool with at least one incidence of culprits (I'll leave it to your imagination as to who the perpetrators were; "Pat, I'd like to solve the puzzle...") opening fire within the constricted confines of the shopping center... Anyways, I go there in tow of my idol, my big brother, to see Mike Mentzer. After he posed and changed into sweats, he took questions from the audience. Now, this all took place within the cramped space of Brown's Sporting Goods (Probably doesn't even exist anymore, but I can still remember the display of the hunting rifles on the wall and the unfortunate fact that the sales guy never wanted to let this little prepubescent lad who was bereft of the means to purchase, handle one of those rifles.). During this time, one guy asks Mike Mentzer if he has ever taken steroids. In fact, the questioner mispronounced the drug, he said "styroids", and Mike tells him that he has never heard of styroids, but if he is talking about steroids, he says, "Asking a bodybuilder if he takes steroids is like asking a guy if he beats off. Everybody's doing it, but nobody wants to tell you about it". That holds true pretty much into today's times. Him saying that has stayed with me since I heard it, and at the tender age of 12 years old, I didn't even know what they were talking about...
    Great story Cy! Mike M has some serious time in the pages of the book. Particularly the 80 Mr. O, where Arnold won by controversy.

    BTW, there is some interesting shit on Arnie in the book; he can be one devious and cocky mofo.

    Iím pissed that my mind is failing me recalling the visits I made to the legendary gym called Vinceís in the valley (also brought up a lot in this book). Cameras on cell phones can be a curse, but they do make some memories last longer.

    On a final note, it was interesting to hear competitors in the 60ís complaining about too much mass & not being aesthetic. Wow, 60 years later, the same ďMuscle WarsĒ keep occurring!
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  16. #16
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    I know u c my Wagner rep in here - but, it’s just for show

    After getting a hold of the guys on the front lines - it’s grim

    They’re all about it - sorta - one of these guys reached out, right before being banned - only thing he stated was “you’re living the dream”

    Shit, I rather read a book than light off 100’s of rounds

    This “us” against them shit is just depressing


    I’ll prob be mia for a while - I have enough work to keep me busy
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  17. #17
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    Final few pages of the book. It concluded with the 84 Mr. O, the comeback of Sergio & the beginning of the Lee Haney era.

    Would be cool if Sergioís proclamation came true. Nice story.

    Now onto an equally informative, but darker true story (autobiography) called ďMuscleĒ, written in 91.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Muscle Wars-e191b334-7608-482e-8b19-a1682445b062.jpg   Muscle Wars-d1b55027-b58f-493b-9225-2b02628bfdb8.jpg  

  18. #18
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    Damn ďMuscleĒ was an incredible read. The author is a son of two prominent writers & Universty professors. Private schools, graduated from Oxford & set to start his PHD at Yale. At 26 he decides he wants muscle instead. 2 years training at a YMCA in NY, then moves to Los Angeles, continues to eat and train like a beast. Introduced to steroids , which he openly discusses. Talks about training diet, his regiment, etc. Places 2nd in his first NPC event, then promptly as he has steadily becoming disillusioned, he gives it all up. Cool read.

    Starting weight 6í4Ē 170, contest weight at 4 years later was 230. His training weight was around 250 (the dude is detailed in his book).
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Muscle Wars-f71da930-abf3-4a37-970d-ce442c08b599.jpg   Muscle Wars-a0dc88e2-303e-41ec-b0c1-0758f68f67b5.jpg  
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  19. #19
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    Damn Jay, you read the book?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Muscle Wars-0085e753-4b3d-4b38-8910-bf4e8430218a.jpeg  

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by wango View Post
    I forgot how f’n good this book is. When he met Arnold for a second time (this time with Franco), Arnold was asking Rick about steroids, which he hadn’t yet. Arnold gave him a months supply of Dianobol in case he was curious.
    Quick short story. Me and a buddy went to the second Arnold Classic (Yes, I'm old so F all of you) years back. We were late arriving to the main hotel due to weather delays. Get to the check in and the girl says uh oh, you were so late we gave your room away. She went to another room, came back and gave us each keys telling us when you get in the elevator insert the key above the numbers then press your floor. We were given a small penthouse room on the floor with Arnold, Franco and all the big shots! Amazing. Had a free breakfast room to die for and ate and got pics with all of them. They were all so nice to talk to. Quite a memorable experience.

    Book looks interesting btw!
    Last edited by kelkel; 04-21-2023 at 08:37 AM.
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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelkel View Post
    Quick short story. Me and a buddy went to the second Arnold Classic (Yes, I'm old so F all of you) years back. We were late arriving to the main hotel due to weather delays. Get to the check in and the girl says uh oh, you were so late we gave your room away. She went to another room, came back and gave us each keys telling us when you get in the elevator insert the key above the numbers then press your floor. We were given a small penthouse room on the floor with Arnold, Franco and all the big shots! Amazing. Had a free breakfast room to die for and ate and got pics with all of them. They were all so nice to talk to. Quite a memorable experience.

    Book looks interesting btw!
    Great story!

    Oh yeah the book is insane. Damn, Iím glad you saw this thread, because I have a question that you might know an answer.

    I know HGH was available as a pituitary gland extract till it was banned in the mid 80ís. The author alluded to there being a rumor before the 82 Mr. O, that TP might have had his own exclusive source. Could Mike have been on it in 80, after looking at this pic & seeing Arnoldís quote?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Muscle Wars-8b26e4d5-11ec-40fd-8b35-f8a5b779dc87.jpg  

  22. #22
    XnavyHMCS is online now Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelkel View Post
    Quick short story. Me and a buddy went to the second Arnold Classic (Yes, I'm old so F all of you) years back. We were late arriving to the main hotel due to weather delays. Get to the check in and the girl says uh oh, you were so late we gave your room away. She went to another room, came back and gave us each keys telling us when you get in the elevator insert the key above the numbers then press your floor. We were given a small penthouse room on the floor with Arnold, Franco and all the big shots! Amazing. Had a free breakfast room to die for and ate and got pics with all of them. They were all so nice to talk to. Quite a memorable experience.

    Book looks interesting btw!
    Now THAT'S a story...!!!

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