The World At War: A historical perspective.

[XnavyHMCS]

I have had the idea for this thread on my mind for quite some time. My hopes are to analyze, discuss and debate, mans fascination, his fetish, his fixation with solving his problems, not through discourse, but through destruction. I first thought to attempt to maintain a chronological order of human conflict, but this constraint would undoubtedly curb creativity and contribution. My goal is to examine any and all wars which have been waged across the globe. I assume that I am not the only member who is interested in history; we will soon put that suspicion to the sword; to wax poetic.

I will kick this off, in American style with The Revolutionary War against Great Britain.
- I have always believed that for all of the long winded, highfalutin revolutionary rhetoric, crafted perhaps with the
intent to hoodwink the simple minded masses to grab their muskets and converge on the greens of Lexington and
Concord, and fire "the shot heard round the world"; this "revolution" was in fact a power play, the classic struggle
between the new rich (the colonists, the rich colonists) and the old rich (Tory colonists closely aligned to the King). Our endeared Founding
Fathers were quite rich; in fact, they were the filthy rich of the American colonies, by 18th century standards. They were both rich and
wise, being astute enough to surmise that, "If we can get rid of the middleman, we can monopolize the wealth of this
bountiful land, and not waste the money on what is in effect an absentee landlord; King George III in Great Britain".
When one looks at it in this light, it appears to have been a class struggle. I offer up as evidence that, George
Washington was the richest man in America before the revolution, and he was even richer thereafter.

Do I have any "bored on Easter Sunday" forum members who would like to bite the bait?

[wango]

Just reading and doing laundry. I’ve been on a history binge myself. Man, we can thank France for that win. What surprised me is how many Americans were riding the fence & trying not to show favoritism in case Britain won. Of course doing so would get you tar and feathered if found out.

And did you know that in the winter those dudes were fighting barefoot because there was no funds for them?

As I kept reading it was like “how the fuck did we end up winning”?

[XnavyHMCS]

Yeah Wango, you are spot on here, Joliet Jake.

I have read that upwards of 50% of the revolutionary combatants were French; not to mention the fact that a powerful French naval presence was blockading the colonial coast, prohibiting and preventing the embarkation and provisioning of the British military presence in the colonies. It is lost in our nationalistic interpretation (perhaps rightly so, but a quite common American penchant, none the less, as we will see in the ensuing discussions) the blatant reality that those fledgling colonial fighters could most likely not have carried the day, sans their French counterparts... For all the flack that we gave the French for not throwing their military might behind our ridiculous (I earned the right, having been there, to criticize.) venture in Iraq; the French forces have fought the most wars throughout history, et ils ont sorti le champs de bataille (and they have left the battlefield) victorious; irregardless of their feeble, faulty performance militarily in the last century; they are a historically warlike tribe (or they were).

I would venture to guess that again, like you have mentioned; there was a substantial number of colonials who were more than reticent in their commitment to the colonial cause, because they perhaps valued their lives much more so than their perceived liberties.

True: Gen. Washington's bedraggled forces interned at Valley Forge marched shoeless, due to the shallow pockets of the rebel cause.

"How did we end up winning?" Perhaps the answer is manifold. The British were obviously fighting an inherently feeble rebel resistance movement, but they were precariously preoccupied, if not yet overextended by the troubles brewing in the opening phases of what was to become known as The French Revolution... We also may not forgo the conclusion that perhaps the Brits believed that they could just cut and run (surrender at Yorktown) and return at a later date (The War of 1812) to right the wrong...

[XnavyHMCS]

https://www.foxnews.com/lifestyle/me...in-john-parker

I didn't know some of these details concerning "the shot heard round the world".

[XnavyHMCS]

79 years ago, The Greatest Generation waded ashore and leapt from the sky to liberate Europe.

I hiked across the approximately 70 km of the landing zone, from the eastern edge near the village of Benoville and the critical bridges over the Orne River and the Caen Canal, which would soon become immortalized as Pegasus Bridge, named after the insignia of the British 6th Airborne; Division; to the American enshrined Ste, Mere Eglise on the western flank.

We've all seen Saving Private Ryan; these guys who landed on D-Day were some hard bastards, to say the least.

[wango]

Just finished perhaps the most intriguing book ever. No, this is a real book written in the USA, I aint getting political nor making a statement !

The POTUS gets in a car crash, goes into a coma and awakens a changed man. He rarely eats or sleeps but reads nonstop every intellectual, political, economic piece of information available; newspapers from around the world, etc.

The USA and world is in a major depression & he stands for the common man who disenchanted, join as a huge armed mass. In the process the leader is slain.

The POTUS buys a movie studio & has a propaganda movie made where that fallen leader (now a folk hero) identifies with the POTUS.

The POTUS arranges for a television in as many homes as possible and does weekly down to earth speeches to the public and becomes immensely popular.

The tens of thousand armed men march to Washington DC and form encampments around the White House and capitol.

The POTUS gives them police protection and food snd against everyone’s advice, supports but doesn’t attack them with the police nor army.

To identify as part of the group the men wear armbands, and small groups of them (armed) shadow congress where ever they go 24/7. Yet it’s done without threats or violence, it’s just they’re always there.

The POTUS declares a national emergency, disbands congress & is now solely in charge. The congressman are relieved as they are no longer followed 24/7.

The POTUS declares Prohibition over and has the USA take full control over production and sales of all alcohol.

The USA now controls all law enforcement to eliminate any corruption.

As the mob is now deprived of $, they strike back.

The POTUS makes a special police force to enforce his policy (they override all authority). Mobsters are thrown into a concentration camp (made on Elis Island) where they are sent and quickly executed.

The POTUS makes a nation wide work program so anyone has a job. They do largely construction and infrastructure. Depression & economy improve.

Japan attacks Indochina and destroys multiple warships (including one of ours docked there).

The POTUS waits for other world leaders to want to attack Japan, then only after they unify does the USA join and quickly destroy Japan’s warships, largely using the Air Force.

It goes on, but this is a nice place to stop.

You might say, well duh, this shit kind of happened with Hitler becoming a dictator, forming concentration camps, Japan attacking, Goebbels movie propaganda, prohibition ending, FDR’s public work programs, yup what’s so original about this story.

It was written anonymously and wasn’t released until 1933, so likely written in 32. Nothing had happened yet, nothing. Shit television wasn’t real yet, prohibition wasn’t over. FDR’s national works program didn’t happen for several more years. And Hitler had not taken over as a dictator.

Spooky.

[XnavyHMCS]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/oppenheim...155104541.html

You had to figure that this was coming...

Where do you stand on the Americans employment of nuclear engines of destruction, to end the war with Japan. The first atomic bomb, named Little Boy, was dropped on Hiroshima from the Enola Gay, a B-29 bomber, at 8:15 AM on August 6, 1945, with the second bomb, Fat Man, being dropped on Nagasaki from the Bockscar , also a B-29 bomber, at 11:02 AM on August 9, 1945.

[Cuz]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/oppenheim...155104541.html

You had to figure that this was coming...

Where do you stand on the Americans employment of nuclear engines of destruction, to end the war with Japan. The first atomic bomb, named Little Boy, was dropped on Hiroshima from the Enola Gay, a B-29 bomber, at 8:15 AM on August 6, 1945, with the second bomb, Fat Man, being dropped on Nagasaki from the Bockscar , also a B-29 bomber, at 11:02 AM on August 9, 1945.

The US had given the japanaese govt many warnings. So they had plenty of time to surrender and do the right thing. Hundreds of thousands of innocent humans lost their lives bc the japanese govt did not surrender out of pride and ego. Yes it had to happen, yes it was tragic. History repeats itself…always does

Was this the first time a tragedy of this magnitude happened? Of course it wasnt. Genghis Kahn murdered practically a whole a continent with his army , and it was much much worse. The deaths were slow and painful…the Abomb was a flash of light and death was instant

[Cylon357]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/oppenheim...155104541.html

You had to figure that this was coming...

Where do you stand on the Americans employment of nuclear engines of destruction, to end the war with Japan. The first atomic bomb, named Little Boy, was dropped on Hiroshima from the Enola Gay, a B-29 bomber, at 8:15 AM on August 6, 1945, with the second bomb, Fat Man, being dropped on Nagasaki from the Bockscar , also a B-29 bomber, at 11:02 AM on August 9, 1945.

I think Cuz already spoke well to this, but I would like to add, or maybe simply emphasize:

War is hell.

Civilians always pay the highest price for the arrogant posturing of their leaders. The only people who think war is a good idea are either those that have never experienced it first hand or those who have absolutely no other choice. I'm not saying there aren't plenty of good reasons to fight, because there most certainly are. In fact, I would even say that, all things considered, the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were justified. The US didn't start the war with Japan, that started almost 4 years earlier with a surprise, sneak attack on a sleepy Hawaiian naval base, when there was no formal declaration of hostilities.

A popular meme floating around now is "'eff around and find out". Japanese imperial leaders did just that in 1941.

[wango]

Yup, it had to happen. By taking lives, it saved lives. In the spring of that year we already killed far more civilians & caused far more property damage by using incendiary bombs that the 2 atomic bombs did combined. Statistically the Tokyo bombing in particular is ranked as the #1 destructive single bombing of all time. It alone killed more than either of the atomic bombs. Yet the Japanese still didn’t surrender. They sure did after the A bombs though.

Robert McNamara’s views: